1) Bots being a cancer is a lie. You don't know that, you don't have proof of that. They have a market, people buy from them, thus they are obviously wanted/needed by someone. Why don't you push your anger at them? Or you could put your anger to the gaming companies for not being innovative and reposting derivatives. If I didn't have to grind 10000 years for a mount that goes .45% faster to be competitive with the neckbeards out there, or perhaps if you didn't make it so you needed that money to be able to Raid or get gear or what have you. Heck, if you didn't have a money curve so that people at the top were raking in 100's of gold for a single quest when someone down low only earns 4c for a similarly difficult quest (at that level)
2) Morals/Dueling . Yes, dueling was allowed. And then you know what? They passed a law making it illegal. Even with it illegal, people did it. But at least then there was a legal factor involved. What is going on here is NOT illegal. In fact, it's covered by very little. But if anything the Supreme Court/Appeals Courts have approved jailbreaking of PHONES then a simple Jailbreak of a program can easily be seen. Morals stem from an upbringing of a perceived "right" and "wrong". Jihadi's believe they are right when they blow themselves up. I'm pointing out that you're on the wrong side because you're failing to see the further trend if things like this are upheld.
3) EULA's and TOS's are only generally enforcable and cannot be used in this manner. They put so much in there that it'd be easy to believe that they could revoke your rights to play if the sun comes up at the same time as the moon. There's a difference between clicking 'I agree' and actually enforcing some of the inane things put into the "EULA".
FOR EXAMPLE: If you buy a box game, and you read the EULA, and disagree. You can try to return it, but most stores won't let you. Some developers will give you your money back but there have been actual fights/court proceedings along these lines.
4) The scripts affected are CLIENT side. They don't change the nature of the conversation, they only effect the CLIENT. It just so happens that the Client is connected to a Server for the conversation. Sorry, but if you can't tell something is fishy on the server side, then MAYBE you don't deserve to charge $15 a month for a not-so-secure service.
5) And you BOUGHT the software. Let's not get into the "leasing" BS. You BOUGHT the software. You LEASE the server time. In paying for the LEASE you're guaranteed upkeep. Like the apartment analogy, no you cannot renovate the apartment. But you are allowed to add pictures to the wall, paint it, and whatnot. So long as you're leasing it, you have certain rights within it. It is illegal to be naked outside and yet you can do so within the privacy of your apartment.
P.S. Some of you people are willing to have a good argument/discussion. I can appreciate that. Some things stated in my argument aren't my personal beliefs on the subject. But other things I see down the line means that even though my personal opinion doesn't agree, the legal opinion dictates a certain response given the current laws.
What I cannot appreciate is that some of you are unwilling to believe the people can disagree with your "holier than thou" opinions.
1) Bots being a cancer is a lie. You don't know that, you don't have proof of that.
I have been banning them as GM for 10 years and I have been reporting them on all of my games even longer. They are everywhere, they spam the ingame market with items to inflate prices and tell you you should be happy that the things you farm yourself are now worthless.
Don't tell me I have no proof when every single gamer out there has been witnessing this plague for years.
Don't tell me I have no proof when every single gamer out there has been witnessing this plague for years.
I think by "witnessing" you mean "participating". See, these companies are selling to people. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but when a system is designed as silly as these, you're going to have people manipulate the system.
For example, even taking out the gold sellers. You have others who purposely play the stock market. They go into an Auction House, but up certain commodities, and then resell them at a higher price. These sell and they make money on them. They also create a fixed price model where you log into the AH and find things selling at similar prices. Why? People are lazy and just put whatever money on there (maybe a little less) just to sell their items.
That doesn't require software AND it manipulates the market in such a way that the gold sellers make money because..... the inflated prices on the AH allow for it.
Heck, most of these types don't even use the bots, they use spreadsheets to figure out their math. Interestingly, these are the same principles used in the real world market. Again, no bots involved.
The problem exists because these game developers are lazy and allow it to exist. There's been the principle of skimming currency used on the AH to help artificially reduce inflation but game developers have gone that route as it's the "easiest" even though it doesn't solve the underlying issue.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
1: Yes.. They are actually. In some ways very literally seeing how they alter the way something is supposed to function. Now there are ofc levels in hell... There is a wide difference between a chatspam bot and a aimbot... Or for that matter a bot/slave system to multibox and a farmbot. But how ever you spin it... They do things not intended by the game designers... Something that should be worth something looking back on all the censor/westernization threads and stuff like that.
2: Well it can actually be illegal depending on how you go about it. If you write all and any code on your own in just such a smart way that you do not infringe on any copyright. You are in the clear... If not... Well. You know. Beyond that i guess it all comes down to being willing to take the punishment for breaking social codes. But you are right, it is not illegal.
3: And that is where the whole subscription thing with games like WoW and how to treat F2P games comes in to effect. It is murky at best in general with only a few cases/areas having definite rulings to lean on.
4: While the scripts might only affect the client at the core. The greater effect is when communicating with a SERVICE. Without said service the client is pretty much bunk. And services have a very differetn set of rules from products. Especially the disruption of services. So for a on-line game it is not as cut and dry.
5: Yes you bought the software... You did not buy access to the service by default. That cost extra. It is add-on service... you know.. Service... Muck about all you like with the software you bought... Nothing will happen until you try to access the service.
Don't tell me I have no proof when every single gamer out there has been witnessing this plague for years.
I think by "witnessing" you mean "participating". See, these companies are selling to people. I'm sorry that you feel that way, but when a system is designed as silly as these, you're going to have people manipulate the system.
For example, even taking out the gold sellers. You have others who purposely play the stock market. They go into an Auction House, but up certain commodities, and then resell them at a higher price. These sell and they make money on them. They also create a fixed price model where you log into the AH and find things selling at similar prices. Why? People are lazy and just put whatever money on there (maybe a little less) just to sell their items.
That doesn't require software AND it manipulates the market in such a way that the gold sellers make money because..... the inflated prices on the AH allow for it.
Heck, most of these types don't even use the bots, they use spreadsheets to figure out their math. Interestingly, these are the same principles used in the real world market. Again, no bots involved.
The problem exists because these game developers are lazy and allow it to exist. There's been the principle of skimming currency used on the AH to help artificially reduce inflation but game developers have gone that route as it's the "easiest" even though it doesn't solve the underlying issue.
You cannot stop botters. I don't care what you think you know, there's ultimately nothing that you can do to stop them. You think that there's some magic that can be done on a server in order to prevent this, so enlighten us.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
That doesn't work. A driverless car doesn't give you an edge. In a competitive MMORPG having a bot double or even triple your playtime and achievements is a huge advantage you have over those who actually you know... play the game.
A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
4) The scripts affected are CLIENT side. They don't change the nature of the conversation, they only effect the CLIENT. It just so happens that the Client is connected to a Server for the conversation. Sorry, but if you can't tell something is fishy on the server side, then MAYBE you don't deserve to charge $15 a month for a not-so-secure service.
I can understand where you're coming from, and to a point I can agree but there has to be a balance here.
The problem is that these scripts don't just affect the client side, these scripts affect everyone playing the damn game.
What about the rights of the honest customers? the ones who don't cheat.
Maybe Blizzard should finance a class action, so us... the honest customers can sue the ass off these assholes who make money off of ruining our gaming experiences.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
That doesn't work. A driverless car doesn't give you an edge. In a competitive MMORPG having a bot double or even triple your playtime and achievements is a huge advantage you have over those who actually you know... play the game.
A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
I don't like you.
You sound like all people have the same given time to play the game.
For example the student plays 10 hours a week, and the bank employee plays 10 hours a week and every other individual in WOW plays 10 hours a week. This is no way how playing games works. You play as long as you can afford time and motivation for. If you think because there are no bots, the game is fair, then you are wrong.
Imagine a server, where 2 people play the market, this actually is the case on every WOW server, it is not against TOS or EULA. And now you sit there spend 2 hours into grinding, to afford Item X because the market was played, otherwise you would have needed only 1 hour. This is absolutely fair.
Imagine you have 40 Toons on 10 Computers and you Multi-Box them. This is completely fair.
Imagine you use a Logitech mouse our keyboard with premade key bindings that ease your gameplay. This is compelety fair.
Imagine you use Add-ons in Dungeons and Raids, and others not. This is no advantage.
Now imagine someone, who lacks time but wants to play this game and parts of its end content, and uses a software that only automates the gameplay as any user would play the game. This person can not bot 24/7 because there are heuristics in place that prevent that. And this person does not want to bot 24/7 because he does not need it. This is a casual player.
Imagine you buy WOW Tokens with money and change them into WOW Gold, this is absolutely legit and firm with EULA / TOS. But once you buy gold from a 3rd person its outrageous.
Imagine you invest 50 EUR at Blizzard for a instant lvl 1 to lvl 100 boost, this is fair, everyone can afford that, its not against EULA or TOS. Now imagine you used a bot to level your character, outrageous.
But yes, the casual player has his opinion, never looks at the bigger or the whole picture.
The whole picture actally is, Blizzard wants to monetize the whole market, it is not wrong, but they are hindering competition, and this is at least in Europe not a good thing. Monopoly was never a good thing.
I do not think that our bots can be compared with chat spam bots, aim "bots" - i rather say that are aim cheats, fly hacks, underground hacks, teleportation or dupe hacks. All i can write into our label is automation.
Uhm, a person playing the market has nothing to do with automated programs.
But but but, I was just told that botters are the sole and only reason for market inflation/large prices on game auction houses. That's not true? (I understand playing the market isn't necessarily automated)
You cannot stop botters. I don't care what you think you know, there's ultimately nothing that you can do to stop them.
I'm not a programmer. It's not my expertise. People go to school for years to do it. Teleporting and faster than usual keypresses could be monitored? Maybe? I dunno. Unless the botting program changes to some sort of variable key press. Then who knows. My ultimate point to this whole string was by making the argument that people can't bot, with NO LEGAL BASIS for the argument, the entire area gets entirely too fuzzy for my liking. Specifically when you look at the slippery slope argument.
Maybe Blizzard should finance a class action, so us... the honest customers can sue the ass off these assholes who make money off of ruining our gaming experiences.
This comes off as a terrible idea as well. YOUR gaming experience. What about MY gaming experience? Maybe I should sue you because I don't have the time to game and I would prefer to bot my game during the day and run Raids personally at night. That's the thing. Without very specific legal work, everything is up for interpretation. Most people will read/interpret something in a way that best gives them the advantage.
So let me sum this up because I know I'm getting into the TDLR portion. 1) No laws broken. Blizz already lost one suit and is trying to get at it another way. 2) Not everyone agrees with bots. I personally wouldn't use them, but to each their own. 3) Bots aren't the single reason for the downfall of games. In fact, everything bots do tend to take the tedium out of games. This tedium was written INTO games by the...... developer. Why not blame them? 4) People buy the stuff the bots produce. So obviously there's a market. Why not solve the market issues since #1 is true and there are no laws defining this area?
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
That doesn't work. A driverless car doesn't give you an edge. In a competitive MMORPG having a bot double or even triple your playtime and achievements is a huge advantage you have over those who actually you know... play the game.
A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
I don't like you.
You sound like all people have the same given time to play the game.
For example the student plays 10 hours a week, and the bank employee plays 10 hours a week and every other individual in WOW plays 10 hours a week. This is no way how playing games works. You play as long as you can afford time and motivation for. If you think because there are no bots, the game is fair, then you are wrong.
Imagine a server, where 2 people play the market, this actually is the case on every WOW server, it is not against TOS or EULA. And now you sit there spend 2 hours into grinding, to afford Item X because the market was played, otherwise you would have needed only 1 hour. This is absolutely fair.
Imagine you have 40 Toons on 10 Computers and you Multi-Box them. This is completely fair.
Imagine you use a Logitech mouse our keyboard with premade key bindings that ease your gameplay. This is compelety fair.
Imagine you use Add-ons in Dungeons and Raids, and others not. This is no advantage.
Now imagine someone, who lacks time but wants to play this game and parts of its end content, and uses a software that only automates the gameplay as any user would play the game. This person can not bot 24/7 because there are heuristics in place that prevent that. And this person does not want to bot 24/7 because he does not need it. This is a casual player.
Imagine you buy WOW Tokens with money and change them into WOW Gold, this is absolutely legit and firm with EULA / TOS. But once you buy gold from a 3rd person its outrageous.
Imagine you invest 50 EUR at Blizzard for a instant lvl 1 to lvl 100 boost, this is fair, everyone can afford that, its not against EULA or TOS. Now imagine you used a bot to level your character, outrageous.
But yes, the casual player has his opinion, never looks at the bigger or the whole picture.
The whole picture actally is, Blizzard wants to monetize the whole market, it is not wrong, but they are hindering competition, and this is at least in Europe not a good thing. Monopoly was never a good thing.
I do not think that our bots can be compared with chat spam bots, aim "bots" - i rather say that are aim cheats, fly hacks, underground hacks, teleportation or dupe hacks. All i can write into our label is automation.
Anyway, thanks for reading that.
What are you talking about with a monopoly?
Do you mean that Blizzard is trying to monopolize World of Warcraft?
So you have to make money fucking over other's accomplishments? You can't create something of your very own?
I like the part that i eluded to prior ,,100's of lawyers,that is YOUR money you spend on Blizzard to have them waste in courts instead of on the games.No wonder there is always this smokescreen of making multi millions yet their games never seem top get better,they are WASTING a lot of money all over the place.
I am also not the least surprised Blizzard lost that suit,i have no idea why they did not sue for copyright infringement,i guess they figured a cease order would have been all they could have accomplished and wasted tons on lawyers but they lost anyhow with a weak case.I am pretty sure they expect small business to just fold up and leave.
I do not for one minute like botting or any cheating in my games,but imo this is a SELFISH act and not one they really care about on behalf of the gamer's.Like i also said previous,Blizzard has known about botting from day 1 and were VERY slack with any effort to stop it,so i am pretty sure they really don't care about the player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You cannot stop botters. I don't care what you think you know, there's ultimately nothing that you can do to stop them.
I'm not a programmer. It's not my expertise. People go to school for years to do it. Teleporting and faster than usual keypresses could be monitored? Maybe? I dunno. Unless the botting program changes to some sort of variable key press. Then who knows. My ultimate point to this whole string was by making the argument that people can't bot, with NO LEGAL BASIS for the argument, the entire area gets entirely too fuzzy for my liking. Specifically when you look at the slippery slope argument.
This is exactly what I do right now. I actually automate software testing for a living and it's quite simple. For simplicity's sake, I'll say that I could hook you up with some software that would allow you to automate simple tasks in less than an afternoon. However, this automation IS a violation of WoW's TOU. Section 2 specifically states that thou shall not, "use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;"
Now that's at a TOU level, so I'm not sure whether there's any legalese in there to account for people creating these types of services FOR the game, but I'm sure there is.
Well since you want to be so exact, I was talking about morality.
Morality (from the Latinmoralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper: In other words, it is the disjunction between right and wrong.[1]
Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[2] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness."
The distiction between right and wrong can be religious but doesn't have to be. I'm glad I was able to teach you something.
Morality stems from religous teaching, quoting Wikipedia is nice, but you can't use wiki as it's normally wrong, and can be edited by anyone, and as such is worthless in any discussion
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Maybe Blizzard should finance a class action, so us... the honest customers can sue the ass off these assholes who make money off of ruining our gaming experiences.
This comes off as a terrible idea as well. YOUR gaming experience. What about MY gaming experience? Maybe I should sue you because I don't have the time to game and I would prefer to bot my game during the day and run Raids personally at night. That's the thing. Without very specific legal work, everything is up for interpretation. Most people will read/interpret something in a way that best gives them the advantage.
It's Blizzard's game. They set the rules. You don't like the rules, don't play. Pretty fucking simple.
Are you an adult? So because you might have to work and support a family like the majority of us adults and you don't have the time to game like a welfare case or a child. This gives you or someone else the right to cheat?
Are you one of those "Fuck the rest cause I'm the best" type of people?
Morality stems from religous teaching, quoting Wikipedia is nice, but you can't use wiki as it's normally wrong, and can be edited by anyone, and as such is worthless in any discussion
You are the first person I ever met in my life that claims that morality is a matter of religious beliefs.
Well think whatever you want, Wiki can be wrong at times but people on the internet, claiming to know better, are not really a more reliable source for information.
Bots only show the underlying issues of today's MMOs.
Why is there no bot of this company for Guild Wars 2? Ask yourself that. I hardly doubt the devs at ANet have more experience countering bots, for various reasons, yet they seem to be doing a lot better job than Blizzard and Co.
Supply and demand people. Supply and demand. No one stays teenager with loads of free time. Some people go to eBay or straight up by exploits/hacks/bots.
Game developers should prevent that by introducing interesting mechanics.
I feel no need to hack Fallout 4. I dont start games like WoW/Lineage because of the mind numbing grind that's involved with them. Others straight up both themselves into endgame because the game has poor experiences at low level, but can you blame them? When all the content is 99% addressed for endgame and you have a mediocre at best leveling game. Reaching top players is merely impossible in such games. And some of you love them for that, because your stats are unreachable and you dont have to be good you just need time.
However, that just spawn the need/demand of bots. So you could reach that high ranked player and stick it to them. Which is a fair reason. More time shouldn't equal more skill.
You know what, if Blizzard does end up losing, which I highly doubt they will. I hope they pull the plug on Europe of all their games as a nice "F U" to the country that supports such stupid laws.
The laws in the U.S. against reverse engineering someone else's intellectual property are a lot stricter then they are in Europe. Companies like Activation have been using these laws for years to shove digital content at consumers their way and made it so that we don't own any of the games we buy anymore we are just leasing them from them for as long as they feel like allowing it. Botting is a cancer on gaming and it affects every single person who plays MMO's but I don't have a lot of sympathy for these big companies either. After all they did technically break the law when they reverse engineered the botters software and run it for non-personal use just as the bot creators did when they used WoW to make the bots.
For Activation they are practicing a double standard. Either they support digital rights management or they support fair use. They can't have it both ways and support DRM for their stuff and fair use for the products they want to abuse for their own gain.
dont care one way or the other, if I don't like bots I ignore them, however I use plenty of 2nd party add-ons that give me an advantage. I have used bot programs in the past for Asheron's Call, as a matter of fact we had entire bot parties and nobody cared.
1) Bots being a cancer is a lie. You don't know that, you don't have proof of that.
I have been banning them as GM for 10 years and I have been reporting them on all of my games even longer. They are everywhere, they spam the ingame market with items to inflate prices and tell you you should be happy that the things you farm yourself are now worthless.
Don't tell me I have no proof when every single gamer out there has been witnessing this plague for years.
I can also point games who bots destroyed the economy so much unless you bot, buy gold, or hack something you couldn't keep playing,
also just one little question, what make you think they didn't reverse enginnering the client of the game to make this botting tools? pretty sure they had.
also one little fun fact ncsoft one time on aion just changed how his client accepted command, but still let the old commands open, people was still boting since the bots was working but after a week or so, mass ban on everyone then closed the old commands and let just the playing fair players there.
Comments
2) Morals/Dueling . Yes, dueling was allowed. And then you know what? They passed a law making it illegal. Even with it illegal, people did it. But at least then there was a legal factor involved. What is going on here is NOT illegal. In fact, it's covered by very little. But if anything the Supreme Court/Appeals Courts have approved jailbreaking of PHONES then a simple Jailbreak of a program can easily be seen. Morals stem from an upbringing of a perceived "right" and "wrong". Jihadi's believe they are right when they blow themselves up. I'm pointing out that you're on the wrong side because you're failing to see the further trend if things like this are upheld.
3) EULA's and TOS's are only generally enforcable and cannot be used in this manner. They put so much in there that it'd be easy to believe that they could revoke your rights to play if the sun comes up at the same time as the moon. There's a difference between clicking 'I agree' and actually enforcing some of the inane things put into the "EULA".
FOR EXAMPLE: If you buy a box game, and you read the EULA, and disagree. You can try to return it, but most stores won't let you. Some developers will give you your money back but there have been actual fights/court proceedings along these lines.
4) The scripts affected are CLIENT side. They don't change the nature of the conversation, they only effect the CLIENT. It just so happens that the Client is connected to a Server for the conversation. Sorry, but if you can't tell something is fishy on the server side, then MAYBE you don't deserve to charge $15 a month for a not-so-secure service.
5) And you BOUGHT the software. Let's not get into the "leasing" BS. You BOUGHT the software. You LEASE the server time. In paying for the LEASE you're guaranteed upkeep. Like the apartment analogy, no you cannot renovate the apartment. But you are allowed to add pictures to the wall, paint it, and whatnot. So long as you're leasing it, you have certain rights within it. It is illegal to be naked outside and yet you can do so within the privacy of your apartment.
P.S. Some of you people are willing to have a good argument/discussion. I can appreciate that. Some things stated in my argument aren't my personal beliefs on the subject. But other things I see down the line means that even though my personal opinion doesn't agree, the legal opinion dictates a certain response given the current laws.
What I cannot appreciate is that some of you are unwilling to believe the people can disagree with your "holier than thou" opinions.
They are everywhere, they spam the ingame market with items to inflate prices and tell you you should be happy that the things you farm yourself are now worthless.
Don't tell me I have no proof when every single gamer out there has been witnessing this plague for years.
For example, even taking out the gold sellers. You have others who purposely play the stock market. They go into an Auction House, but up certain commodities, and then resell them at a higher price. These sell and they make money on them. They also create a fixed price model where you log into the AH and find things selling at similar prices. Why? People are lazy and just put whatever money on there (maybe a little less) just to sell their items.
That doesn't require software AND it manipulates the market in such a way that the gold sellers make money because..... the inflated prices on the AH allow for it.
Heck, most of these types don't even use the bots, they use spreadsheets to figure out their math. Interestingly, these are the same principles used in the real world market. Again, no bots involved.
The problem exists because these game developers are lazy and allow it to exist. There's been the principle of skimming currency used on the AH to help artificially reduce inflation but game developers have gone that route as it's the "easiest" even though it doesn't solve the underlying issue.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
1: Yes.. They are actually. In some ways very literally seeing how they alter the way something is supposed to function. Now there are ofc levels in hell... There is a wide difference between a chatspam bot and a aimbot... Or for that matter a bot/slave system to multibox and a farmbot. But how ever you spin it... They do things not intended by the game designers... Something that should be worth something looking back on all the censor/westernization threads and stuff like that.
2: Well it can actually be illegal depending on how you go about it. If you write all and any code on your own in just such a smart way that you do not infringe on any copyright. You are in the clear... If not... Well. You know. Beyond that i guess it all comes down to being willing to take the punishment for breaking social codes. But you are right, it is not illegal.
3: And that is where the whole subscription thing with games like WoW and how to treat F2P games comes in to effect. It is murky at best in general with only a few cases/areas having definite rulings to lean on.
4: While the scripts might only affect the client at the core. The greater effect is when communicating with a SERVICE. Without said service the client is pretty much bunk. And services have a very differetn set of rules from products. Especially the disruption of services. So for a on-line game it is not as cut and dry.
5: Yes you bought the software... You did not buy access to the service by default. That cost extra. It is add-on service... you know.. Service... Muck about all you like with the software you bought... Nothing will happen until you try to access the service.
This have been a good conversation
You cannot stop botters. I don't care what you think you know, there's ultimately nothing that you can do to stop them. You think that there's some magic that can be done on a server in order to prevent this, so enlighten us.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
I don't like you.
The problem is that these scripts don't just affect the client side, these scripts affect everyone playing the damn game.
What about the rights of the honest customers? the ones who don't cheat.
Maybe Blizzard should finance a class action, so us... the honest customers can sue the ass off these assholes who make money off of ruining our gaming experiences.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
For example the student plays 10 hours a week, and the bank employee plays 10 hours a week and every other individual in WOW plays 10 hours a week. This is no way how playing games works. You play as long as you can afford time and motivation for. If you think because there are no bots, the game is fair, then you are wrong.
Imagine a server, where 2 people play the market, this actually is the case on every WOW server, it is not against TOS or EULA. And now you sit there spend 2 hours into grinding, to afford Item X because the market was played, otherwise you would have needed only 1 hour. This is absolutely fair.
Imagine you have 40 Toons on 10 Computers and you Multi-Box them. This is completely fair.
Imagine you use a Logitech mouse our keyboard with premade key bindings that ease your gameplay. This is compelety fair.
Imagine you use Add-ons in Dungeons and Raids, and others not. This is no advantage.
Now imagine someone, who lacks time but wants to play this game and parts of its end content, and uses a software that only automates the gameplay as any user would play the game. This person can not bot 24/7 because there are heuristics in place that prevent that. And this person does not want to bot 24/7 because he does not need it. This is a casual player.
Imagine you buy WOW Tokens with money and change them into WOW Gold, this is absolutely legit and firm with EULA / TOS. But once you buy gold from a 3rd person its outrageous.
Imagine you invest 50 EUR at Blizzard for a instant lvl 1 to lvl 100 boost, this is fair, everyone can afford that, its not against EULA or TOS. Now imagine you used a bot to level your character, outrageous.
But yes, the casual player has his opinion, never looks at the bigger or the whole picture.
The whole picture actally is, Blizzard wants to monetize the whole market, it is not wrong, but they are hindering competition, and this is at least in Europe not a good thing. Monopoly was never a good thing.
I do not think that our bots can be compared with chat spam bots, aim "bots" - i rather say that are aim cheats, fly hacks, underground hacks, teleportation or dupe hacks. All i can write into our label is automation.
Anyway, thanks for reading that.
I'm not a programmer. It's not my expertise. People go to school for years to do it. Teleporting and faster than usual keypresses could be monitored? Maybe? I dunno. Unless the botting program changes to some sort of variable key press. Then who knows. My ultimate point to this whole string was by making the argument that people can't bot, with NO LEGAL BASIS for the argument, the entire area gets entirely too fuzzy for my liking. Specifically when you look at the slippery slope argument.
This comes off as a terrible idea as well. YOUR gaming experience. What about MY gaming experience? Maybe I should sue you because I don't have the time to game and I would prefer to bot my game during the day and run Raids personally at night. That's the thing. Without very specific legal work, everything is up for interpretation. Most people will read/interpret something in a way that best gives them the advantage.
So let me sum this up because I know I'm getting into the TDLR portion.
1) No laws broken. Blizz already lost one suit and is trying to get at it another way.
2) Not everyone agrees with bots. I personally wouldn't use them, but to each their own.
3) Bots aren't the single reason for the downfall of games. In fact, everything bots do tend to take the tedium out of games. This tedium was written INTO games by the...... developer. Why not blame them?
4) People buy the stuff the bots produce. So obviously there's a market. Why not solve the market issues since #1 is true and there are no laws defining this area?
Do you mean that Blizzard is trying to monopolize World of Warcraft?
So you have to make money fucking over other's accomplishments? You can't create something of your very own?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I am also not the least surprised Blizzard lost that suit,i have no idea why they did not sue for copyright infringement,i guess they figured a cease order would have been all they could have accomplished and wasted tons on lawyers but they lost anyhow with a weak case.I am pretty sure they expect small business to just fold up and leave.
I do not for one minute like botting or any cheating in my games,but imo this is a SELFISH act and not one they really care about on behalf of the gamer's.Like i also said previous,Blizzard has known about botting from day 1 and were VERY slack with any effort to stop it,so i am pretty sure they really don't care about the player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is exactly what I do right now. I actually automate software testing for a living and it's quite simple. For simplicity's sake, I'll say that I could hook you up with some software that would allow you to automate simple tasks in less than an afternoon. However, this automation IS a violation of WoW's TOU. Section 2 specifically states that thou shall not,
"use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience;"
Now that's at a TOU level, so I'm not sure whether there's any legalese in there to account for people creating these types of services FOR the game, but I'm sure there is.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Are you an adult? So because you might have to work and support a family like the majority of us adults and you don't have the time to game like a welfare case or a child. This gives you or someone else the right to cheat?
Are you one of those "Fuck the rest cause I'm the best" type of people?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Well think whatever you want, Wiki can be wrong at times but people on the internet, claiming to know better, are not really a more reliable source for information.
Why is there no bot of this company for Guild Wars 2? Ask yourself that. I hardly doubt the devs at ANet have more experience countering bots, for various reasons, yet they seem to be doing a lot better job than Blizzard and Co.
Supply and demand people. Supply and demand. No one stays teenager with loads of free time. Some people go to eBay or straight up by exploits/hacks/bots.
Game developers should prevent that by introducing interesting mechanics.
I feel no need to hack Fallout 4.
I dont start games like WoW/Lineage because of the mind numbing grind that's involved with them. Others straight up both themselves into endgame because the game has poor experiences at low level, but can you blame them? When all the content is 99% addressed for endgame and you have a mediocre at best leveling game. Reaching top players is merely impossible in such games. And some of you love them for that, because your stats are unreachable and you dont have to be good you just need time.
However, that just spawn the need/demand of bots. So you could reach that high ranked player and stick it to them. Which is a fair reason. More time shouldn't equal more skill.
For Activation they are practicing a double standard. Either they support digital rights management or they support fair use. They can't have it both ways and support DRM for their stuff and fair use for the products they want to abuse for their own gain.
also just one little question, what make you think they didn't reverse enginnering the client of the game to make this botting tools? pretty sure they had.
also one little fun fact ncsoft one time on aion just changed how his client accepted command, but still let the old commands open, people was still boting since the bots was working but after a week or so, mass ban on everyone then closed the old commands and let just the playing fair players there.