Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
That doesn't work. A driverless car doesn't give you an edge. In a competitive MMORPG having a bot double or even triple your playtime and achievements is a huge advantage you have over those who actually you know... play the game.
A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
I don't like you.
if does give an advantage, lets say me and you are working on a similar project up against a deadline, we both drive 1 hr to work each way. I now have 2 more hours of isolated free time I can work on a project than you since you have to drive
If these court cases had taken place outside of Germany, these botters would have lost every single time. A country where prostitution and drugs are legal for everyone to enjoy will hardly see botting as something bad.
I do find funny how these botters are sueing Blizzard when they are the ones breaking the rules with their filthy bots. How about they make their own games so people use their own bots in their own games? Dont go plaguing other peoples games with your bots.
Morality stems from religous teaching, quoting Wikipedia is nice, but you can't use wiki as it's normally wrong, and can be edited by anyone, and as such is worthless in any discussion
You are the first person I ever met in my life that claims that morality is a matter of religious beliefs.
Well think whatever you want, Wiki can be wrong at times but people on the internet, claiming to know better, are not really a more reliable source for information.
well since this is off topic, a lot of people think morality came from gods(aka his religion) and if you are not religious(aka being on the same religion as him) you are immoral/criminal/bad people that kind of thinking is what extremists use, the very peoplw who bombed france use htis kind of thinking.
and funny I find more honest and ethic people on agnostic or atheyst then religious, matter of fact I can point people who use religion to push his personal agenda be it by stealing or pursuing power, also I don't remember ever see a theyst yell you all will burn in hell for going against my religion.
1) Or you could put your anger to the gaming companies for not being innovative and reposting derivatives. If I didn't have to grind 10000 years for a mount that goes .45% faster to be competitive with the neckbeards out there, or perhaps if you didn't make it so you needed that money to be able to Raid or get gear or what have you. Heck, if you didn't have a money curve so that people at the top were raking in 100's of gold for a single quest when someone down low only earns 4c for a similarly difficult quest (at that level)
I see this logic a lot, and it always strikes me how incredibly entitled it sounds.
"If I didn't have to grind 1000 years" - obvious hyperbole aside... you don't have to do anything, in that game or any other.
The game is designed a certain way, to be played a certain way, by a certain demographic of people for whom its intended. Those who find enjoyment in "grinding 1000 years" have absolutely no problem with doing so, and can enjoy the game as it's designed.
If you, or anyone else, find that activity to be boring or otherwise unenjoyable, then the logical, reasonable and non-self-entitled way to look at it is, "gee, this game requires far more time from me than I enjoy having to put into something. This doesn't seem to be the game for me. Perhaps I should look elsewhere, for a game that better suits my tastes", and then leave the "offending" game behind.
For starters, with the amount of information available on pretty much anything these days, and so easily accessible, ignorance literally is a choice. If you want to know what a game is like, or what it requires of its players, it's literally a google search away. Ignorance isn't an excuse.
In that way, the all-too-common logic of "well, I'm playing this game, but it requires too much grinding for my liking, therefor using bots to automate the process is justified because "they're making me do it" is just narcissistic, self-serving bullshit. It's not an argument. It's a lame, weak rationalization.
If you don't like the way the game is set up... then stop playing and go play something else instead. If you're going to continue playing it anyway, then you play by their rules, as the game is designed. Those are the only two valid options you have. Those are the only things you are justified in doing.
You are not, ever, justified in using bots or other apps that allow you to operate outside of how the game is designed to be played/experienced. This sense of indignance, and all the "well I don't want to have to grind that much" is completely unjustified.
You're walking into their house, you play by their rules, or you leave. If you choose to stay and ignore those rules, they are 100% justified in banning/kicking your ass out.
Take the launch of ESO, how much better would that game have been, if there had not been bots everywhere spoiling things, but its not just ESO, its Archeage, its any game they can make money out of. Anything that helps put an end to botters has to be a good thing by default, they are a cancer in desperate need of a cure, maybe, just maybe, we might finally see one.
Why is there no bot of this company for Guild Wars 2?
There's an ass load of paid bots for GW2. I used one.
Perfect. And what did you achieve? Are you at the top of at least one leaderboard?
That is what I was implying. Rather than forcing people into mind numbing tasks for extended periods of time, make personal player skill to actually matter.
In games like WoW though, what's the difference between using illegal bot or some sick G9 mouse macro that so happens to be legal?
The bot user has to press "Enable" hotkey. The macro script kid has to .... press a button to unload bunch of abilities.
Why is one okay and the other isn't? I personally hate macros, to me they are bigger cancer than bots ... because they are allowed. While botters sooner or later get banned, or I catch up to them in the games that I play and support. Although these days bots catch up to me in Gw2. Since I have quite decent account for myself.
Why is there no bot of this company for Guild Wars 2? Ask yourself that.
Just because this company doesn't create bots for GW2 doesn't mean there are none.
The new place-to-be for bots is Fireheart Rise.
The west of the map has a lot of non agro mobs right next to some profitable nodes.
The bots are typically Guardians which will keep up their buffs at all times, you can easily identify them because they will attack the meaningless mobs around and while walking from mob to mob they will randomly do a dodge roll because their evasion bar filled up again.
Why is there no bot of this company for Guild Wars 2? Ask yourself that.
Just because this company doesn't create bots for GW2 doesn't mean there are none.
The new place-to-be for bots is Fireheart Rise.
The west of the map has a lot of non agro mobs right next to some profitable nodes.
The bots are typically Guardians which will keep up their buffs at all times, you can easily identify them because they will attack the meaningless mobs around and while walking from mob to mob they will randomly do a dodge roll because their evasion bar filled up again.
Perfect. And what these said players achieve in a game like Gw2? Driving the prices of resources down? I'm actually all up for that because material price is over the freaking top since HoT.
Do these players get good in any form of PvP? Or PvE? Do they get better than "me" in *any* meaningful way?
The way I see it people get angry at bots because a) they fuck up economies and b) they get better stats than a regular player.
Take point b) out of the equation and what do you end up with? Surely there must be a way to "fix" the economy of a *virtual* world ... if you put your mind to it...
Not to mention that in Gw2 precisely I want to punch every TP flipper in the face if I ever meet them. These folks are worse than bots. And they do nothing else but artificially raise the prices for items. And that's okay by the rules.
I'm really convinced that bots are not the worst in the gaming world. There are ways around it. Every single time. Blizzard are simply lazy and are sending their lawyer squad to clean up the mess.
You know what, if Blizzard does end up losing, which I highly doubt they will. I hope they pull the plug on Europe of all their games as a nice "F U" to the country that supports such stupid laws.
You really have no idea about the legalities involved.
Let me say that I don't use bots and wouldn't play a game if I felt the need because it wouldn't be enjoyable. However - in an attempt to assist lets try an analogy.
Microsoft declare that everyone using Windows has to use Cortana and a microphone. Only keywords will be recognised in the interests of security. You decide to ignore the EULA and ToS MS issued and carry on using a Corsair keyboard you bought at Best Buy. MS sue Corsair; arguing that the software in the keyboard is circumventing their security features and costing them billions. MS lose the court case against Corsair. Judge says user can use Windows and the keyboard. MS sue Best Buy.
This sounds stooopid!
Legally however AB and MS are both developers; as are Bossland and Corsair. And legally Best Buy and the company being sued are just retailers. And legally the bot software and the keyboard are just products. And essentially AB are now suing Best Buy.
Why?
The EULAs and ToSs were becoming ridiculous. Companies - essentially - were saying they would only guarantee that their software works if used with products they had tested it with (their own usually). For businesses this was a BIG issue. Long story short they were judged (in the EU) to be anti-competitive. Software was classed as a product and afforded the same protections - and obligations - as other products. Software companies could not - basiclly - write their own laws.
Ok. So this guy who created software that violated the TOS and got banned is now suing the company that banned him for using the software they stated was in violation of the TOS?
Honestly, can I have the drugs this guy is on? You did something that broke the rules. You knew you broke the rules. You got banned for it, and people you shared the technology with got banned for it. And now you're suing the company who banned you because you broke THEIR rules?
You honestly need to STFU, take your punishment, and go away. It's people like you are the reason a TOS has to exist. There are plenty of players in the game who don't break the rules. It's really that simple.
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Perfect. And what these said players achieve in a game like Gw2? Driving the prices of resources down? I'm actually all up for that because material price is over the freaking top since HoT.
Obviously you are part of the problem, you are what @Ikeda lists as people participating. Instead of farming the items you need you hope that enough cheaters will pop up and that you get a chance to benefit from it.
I still think you guys, while on the side of hating botting, are on the wrong side of this argument regarding rights to a software once purchased.
It's a very slippery slope in regards to legality but even the Supreme Court in the US upheld the rights of the end-user to modify things to their desire. If Blizzard wants to prevent this, then all the protections should be SERVER side so that way they can retain the right due to subscription TO THEIR server. Rather, they are trying to enforce what we can/can't have on our PC's which is far more sinister.
Imagine if Windows said you couldn't download iTunes because it's Apple. Or Steam says no Origin allowed.
What then? That's exactly where this is going folks and you're cheering on the precedent.
It very clearly says in the TOS that you can't use bots, cheats, hacks, etc... You have to agree to it in order to log in to the server. This gives them every right to ban you for using bots.
Secondly, Blizzard is not "using" the BuddyCheats...they are trying to get rid of them. Seeing as the owners of BuddyCheat have to desire to disable their bots Blizzard must find a way to protect its intellectual property from the botter's intellectual property. The actions Blizzard is taking are self-defence not copyright infringement.
There are a handful of Botting companies that need to be tackled and shut down. This is almost as bad as a Pro Athlete on PED. This is suppose to be for our fucking entertainment ruined by folks who NEED an advantage over everyone else. This has become more and easily accessible for everyone.
I want to play FPS like the new Star Wars Battlefront, but can't because AimJunkies already has a cheat for CHEATERS.
Always some douche bag in any industry wanting to get ahead.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
That doesn't work. A driverless car doesn't give you an edge. In a competitive MMORPG having a bot double or even triple your playtime and achievements is a huge advantage you have over those who actually you know... play the game.
A better way for you to argue your point would be to say you are trying to use a robot in the olympics, something designed for humans to compete against other humans... you know... like MMORPGs.
I don't like you.
You sound like all people have the same given time to play the game.
For example the student plays 10 hours a week, and the bank employee plays 10 hours a week and every other individual in WOW plays 10 hours a week. This is no way how playing games works. You play as long as you can afford time and motivation for. If you think because there are no bots, the game is fair, then you are wrong.
Imagine a server, where 2 people play the market, this actually is the case on every WOW server, it is not against TOS or EULA. And now you sit there spend 2 hours into grinding, to afford Item X because the market was played, otherwise you would have needed only 1 hour. This is absolutely fair.
Imagine you have 40 Toons on 10 Computers and you Multi-Box them. This is completely fair.
Imagine you use a Logitech mouse our keyboard with premade key bindings that ease your gameplay. This is compelety fair.
Imagine you use Add-ons in Dungeons and Raids, and others not. This is no advantage.
Now imagine someone, who lacks time but wants to play this game and parts of its end content, and uses a software that only automates the gameplay as any user would play the game. This person can not bot 24/7 because there are heuristics in place that prevent that. And this person does not want to bot 24/7 because he does not need it. This is a casual player.
Imagine you buy WOW Tokens with money and change them into WOW Gold, this is absolutely legit and firm with EULA / TOS. But once you buy gold from a 3rd person its outrageous.
Imagine you invest 50 EUR at Blizzard for a instant lvl 1 to lvl 100 boost, this is fair, everyone can afford that, its not against EULA or TOS. Now imagine you used a bot to level your character, outrageous.
But yes, the casual player has his opinion, never looks at the bigger or the whole picture.
The whole picture actally is, Blizzard wants to monetize the whole market, it is not wrong, but they are hindering competition, and this is at least in Europe not a good thing. Monopoly was never a good thing.
I do not think that our bots can be compared with chat spam bots, aim "bots" - i rather say that are aim cheats, fly hacks, underground hacks, teleportation or dupe hacks. All i can write into our label is automation.
Anyway, thanks for reading that.
I gotta say, you have such a screwed up view of the situation, whether you're actually someone involved in the bots or not: "A company makes money from their product, and it's fine. Suddenly a 3rd party wants to make money off someone else's work by offering an alternative and it's a bad thing."
Of course that's bad, [mod edit]It's not your product and you're ruining it for others who want to play the game as it's designed to be played.
Well, whatever happens, I hope it's in Car industries favor. Anyone that's a car driver enthusiast would never support a ROBOT car or the company behind it. ROBOT's completely negate the purpose of driving the car and anyone who uses them should stop driving cars entirely. Seriously, what is the point of "pretending to drive a car"?
You are comparing a Video game to a Car. Enough said about how far off you are.
Well since you want to be so exact, I was talking about morality.
Morality (from the Latinmoralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are distinguished as proper and those that are improper: In other words, it is the disjunction between right and wrong.[1]
Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.[2] Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness."
The distiction between right and wrong can be religious but doesn't have to be. I'm glad I was able to teach you something.
Morality stems from religous teaching, quoting Wikipedia is nice, but you can't use wiki as it's normally wrong, and can be edited by anyone, and as such is worthless in any discussion
It can be from religious teaching but not necessarily, The same can be said about have Ethics and Integrity as well.
beliefs about what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior
: the degree to which something is right and good : the moral goodness or badness of something
Closing this down since it has become a series of morality/religious arguments (some removed), people advising others on where to find bots, and name calling and circular justification and antagonism.
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Comments
I do find funny how these botters are sueing Blizzard when they are the ones breaking the rules with their filthy bots. How about they make their own games so people use their own bots in their own games? Dont go plaguing other peoples games with your bots.
and funny I find more honest and ethic people on agnostic or atheyst then religious, matter of fact I can point people who use religion to push his personal agenda be it by stealing or pursuing power, also I don't remember ever see a theyst yell you all will burn in hell for going against my religion.
but then again like I said its off topic
"If I didn't have to grind 1000 years" - obvious hyperbole aside... you don't have to do anything, in that game or any other.
The game is designed a certain way, to be played a certain way, by a certain demographic of people for whom its intended. Those who find enjoyment in "grinding 1000 years" have absolutely no problem with doing so, and can enjoy the game as it's designed.
If you, or anyone else, find that activity to be boring or otherwise unenjoyable, then the logical, reasonable and non-self-entitled way to look at it is, "gee, this game requires far more time from me than I enjoy having to put into something. This doesn't seem to be the game for me. Perhaps I should look elsewhere, for a game that better suits my tastes", and then leave the "offending" game behind.
For starters, with the amount of information available on pretty much anything these days, and so easily accessible, ignorance literally is a choice. If you want to know what a game is like, or what it requires of its players, it's literally a google search away. Ignorance isn't an excuse.
In that way, the all-too-common logic of "well, I'm playing this game, but it requires too much grinding for my liking, therefor using bots to automate the process is justified because "they're making me do it" is just narcissistic, self-serving bullshit. It's not an argument. It's a lame, weak rationalization.
If you don't like the way the game is set up... then stop playing and go play something else instead. If you're going to continue playing it anyway, then you play by their rules, as the game is designed. Those are the only two valid options you have. Those are the only things you are justified in doing.
You are not, ever, justified in using bots or other apps that allow you to operate outside of how the game is designed to be played/experienced. This sense of indignance, and all the "well I don't want to have to grind that much" is completely unjustified.
You're walking into their house, you play by their rules, or you leave. If you choose to stay and ignore those rules, they are 100% justified in banning/kicking your ass out.
That is what I was implying. Rather than forcing people into mind numbing tasks for extended periods of time, make personal player skill to actually matter.
In games like WoW though, what's the difference between using illegal bot or some sick G9 mouse macro that so happens to be legal?
The bot user has to press "Enable" hotkey. The macro script kid has to .... press a button to unload bunch of abilities.
Why is one okay and the other isn't? I personally hate macros, to me they are bigger cancer than bots ... because they are allowed. While botters sooner or later get banned, or I catch up to them in the games that I play and support. Although these days bots catch up to me in Gw2. Since I have quite decent account for myself.
Do these players get good in any form of PvP? Or PvE? Do they get better than "me" in *any* meaningful way?
The way I see it people get angry at bots because a) they fuck up economies and b) they get better stats than a regular player.
Take point b) out of the equation and what do you end up with? Surely there must be a way to "fix" the economy of a *virtual* world ... if you put your mind to it...
Not to mention that in Gw2 precisely I want to punch every TP flipper in the face if I ever meet them. These folks are worse than bots. And they do nothing else but artificially raise the prices for items. And that's okay by the rules.
I'm really convinced that bots are not the worst in the gaming world. There are ways around it. Every single time. Blizzard are simply lazy and are sending their lawyer squad to clean up the mess.
You really have no idea about the legalities involved.
Let me say that I don't use bots and wouldn't play a game if I felt the need because it wouldn't be enjoyable. However - in an attempt to assist lets try an analogy.
Microsoft declare that everyone using Windows has to use Cortana and a microphone. Only keywords will be recognised in the interests of security.
You decide to ignore the EULA and ToS MS issued and carry on using a Corsair keyboard you bought at Best Buy.
MS sue Corsair; arguing that the software in the keyboard is circumventing their security features and costing them billions.
MS lose the court case against Corsair. Judge says user can use Windows and the keyboard.
MS sue Best Buy.
This sounds stooopid!
Legally however AB and MS are both developers; as are Bossland and Corsair.
And legally Best Buy and the company being sued are just retailers.
And legally the bot software and the keyboard are just products.
And essentially AB are now suing Best Buy.
Why?
The EULAs and ToSs were becoming ridiculous. Companies - essentially - were saying they would only guarantee that their software works if used with products they had tested it with (their own usually). For businesses this was a BIG issue. Long story short they were judged (in the EU) to be anti-competitive. Software was classed as a product and afforded the same protections - and obligations - as other products. Software companies could not - basiclly - write their own laws.
Honestly, can I have the drugs this guy is on? You did something that broke the rules. You knew you broke the rules. You got banned for it, and people you shared the technology with got banned for it. And now you're suing the company who banned you because you broke THEIR rules?
You honestly need to STFU, take your punishment, and go away. It's people like you are the reason a TOS has to exist. There are plenty of players in the game who don't break the rules. It's really that simple.
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Instead of farming the items you need you hope that enough cheaters will pop up and that you get a chance to benefit from it.
Secondly, Blizzard is not "using" the BuddyCheats...they are trying to get rid of them. Seeing as the owners of BuddyCheat have to desire to disable their bots Blizzard must find a way to protect its intellectual property from the botter's intellectual property. The actions Blizzard is taking are self-defence not copyright infringement.
I want to play FPS like the new Star Wars Battlefront, but can't because AimJunkies already has a cheat for CHEATERS.
Always some douche bag in any industry wanting to get ahead.
Of course that's bad, [mod edit]It's not your product and you're ruining it for others who want to play the game as it's designed to be played.
Anyway, hope Blizzard wins this.
It can be from religious teaching but not necessarily, The same can be said about have Ethics and Integrity as well.
beliefs about what is right behavior and what is wrong behavior
: the degree to which something is right and good : the moral goodness or badness of something
Full Definition of MORALITY
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