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Crafting, what it SHOULD be!
RipperjackAU
Member Posts: 124
in Fallen Earth
First off...
Yes, I know that posting my thoughts on how I think game play should be is egotistical of me and a big fat waste of time.
Yes, I know that the game devs know... or should know... better with regard to how the game should be.
Yes, I know that I am just a game player and regardless of my experience in the IT field, imaginary or other wise, I have no place to comment about how the game should be, and until I receive a pay check from Icarus Studios I should be like my avatar, and Shut the Phuck Up!
... but hey, what can you do when you feel passionate about a game... just post something you feel is right and stand by for the flames. It's going to get hot around here. 
Now, with regard to the whole reason I am pounding away on my keyboard, and not my member, is the issue of crafting. Or more over, how not to do it, and how it should be done.
How to phuck up your crafting.
#1 Make crafting pointless.
World of Warcraft is the principle offender here. Unless you go into Alchemy or Enchanting, which do have value in that you have to use them over and over, crafting is a big fat waste of time. The phat loot you get out of instance farming is infinitely superior to ANYTHING you can craft with blacksmith, leatherworking or tailoring. So once you start your raiding job... er, I mean, raiding play then anything aside from Alchemy or Enchanting is just a waste of time, coin and finger clicking energy.
#2 Make crafting anal.
Evercrack 2 is the worst of this. Want to make a back pack, sure... just make the oils to tan the leather, then from the leather make the leather plates and straps, then mine and refine the ore to make the buckles, then combine the buckles and leather into a harness then finally combine the billion other items you have to make into your finished product. Along the way screwing up your skill rolls to end up with a 2 slot piece of Tauran residue that passes for you new backpack. FFS! I would rather try to re-write War and Peace rather than make a simple item with their crafting system. Sure, make the crafting system detailed and complex, but don't get anal over it.
#3 Make crafting a competition into who can horde the most knowledge.
Mutually exclusive knowledge items REALLY PISS ME OFF. 
Spending hundreds of gold on WoW recipes, only to have some prick out bid me, get the scroll and NEVER make the items is just a travesty. 
If you want to have one-use/shot plans, sure have them. But allow us other crafters to either learn from the guy who got the knowledge or allow us to reverse engineer what he makes. Having crafters hoard knowledge, in an attempt to corner the market in item "X", is a sure fire way alienate and destroy the community.
Spending hundreds of gold on WoW recipes, only to have some prick out bid me, get the scroll and NEVER make the items is just a travesty. If you want to have one-use/shot plans, sure have them. But allow us other crafters to either learn from the guy who got the knowledge or allow us to reverse engineer what he makes. Having crafters hoard knowledge, in an attempt to corner the market in item "X", is a sure fire way alienate and destroy the community.How to make crafting worth something and a desirable part of your game.
#1 Make crafting the ONLY way to get the most powerful items in the game.
Yes... that is right... player made items SHOULD be the most powerful items in the game. Why... because if you could only make the 3rd or 4th powerful items, why would you bother. Go on admit it, you would rather go and farm for the best than spent time making something that is crap in comparison. However if the devs wanted to do this without knocking their precious game balance out of tilt, how about having uber items that can be enhanced with crafting. 
So you could get that rare drop from a boss, then with the right craft skill, make something really special. Then you could have your Chinese farmers out there trying to get that rare drop item, then your crafters can refine it into something better... that way BOTH the farmers and crafters would have a reason to spend hour upon hour upon hour upon hour skilling up their respective characters.
So you could get that rare drop from a boss, then with the right craft skill, make something really special. Then you could have your Chinese farmers out there trying to get that rare drop item, then your crafters can refine it into something better... that way BOTH the farmers and crafters would have a reason to spend hour upon hour upon hour upon hour skilling up their respective characters.#2 Make crafting more than just watching a progress bar... but don't get stupidly anal with the sub-combines.
I would say that a MAXIMUM of 2 sub-combines would make for an in-depth crafting system, without it getting stupid. In other words, take EQ2 event crafting system, with WoW's crafting complexity with ingredients and sub-combines and you would have a FAR superior system.
#3 Make crafting WORTH something.
When you do make up the recipe lists, make sure the items are WORTH the time, currency and energy to make them. When you see items in WoW, which amount to fluff pets, then you have to sit back and think... why on earth did I bother making that. Items made should have their place in the world, and should not amount to useless items you will be dumping when you get your uber, "freshly farmed from instanced X", elite loot.
In short, crafting should be a worth while system that complements what you already have. It should give you that "nice to have" edge in the game, but not be the defining factor that guarantees success.
Now, what comes next you ask?
STAND BY FIRE CONTROL... FLAME, FLAME, FLAME.... Ummmmm. Bar-be-qued forum... TASTY! 
Comments
Well, let us examine the setting. FE is not a fantasy world, obviously, it is a world of low resources and survival. So, to my mind, crafting should be for making items to survive. you want to make a zip gun pretty easy. You want to make a sniper rifle, a lot harder. Does any one here remember GDWs Twilight 2000? After every fire fight you gathered your spent casings so you could re-load them. Why? Because there was no way of knowing when you were going to find new ammo. That is what i would like to see in FE, survival crafting. Everything you make should be based on necessity. I can get in my car and drive to Wal-mart in about 2 hours or less have all the fire power I need to survive. I could also, given enough time, go into a hardware store and cobble together a weapon that can kill at range. Which is better? The answer is obvious. So, in FE what I would like to see is a crafting system that is real. I don't want to see players making M-16s just because they found enough metal tubing and plastic. FE has an opportunity to take crafting out of the " lets make it easy on the players" and bring it into the gritty world of the post holocaust. WoW along with the rest of the current MMORPGs have unrealistic crafting systems and where WoW is bad is that you can craft some pretty uber items in no time. Of course with a high enough skill you should be able to make better gear but, you have to have access to the right tools to make most of the modern conveniences that will be missing in the dark world of FE. This being said, scrounging should be a very important skill and should go hand in hand with crafting. Also, I am hoping FE gets away from the uber gear idea. I hope we dont see missions were players are coming back with the +4 AK-74 of Omens.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
Hell, without arguments this forum would die, so no need to apologize for them
Dedthom, I support your concept of crafting 100%. I know that a system that difficult will probably not be used, but it would be nice. Something as seemingly simple as making bullets would actually take a lot of effort. One way to make crafting more realistic but not too impossible is by increasing the amount of combines. Like you said, it would be lame for a player to have a "large scrap metal" and craft it into an assault rifle. You should have to craft each part of a weapon, then combine them for a final product. More on that later...
Do not make crafting pointless
Agreed. In WoW crafting is generic, over-simplified, and overly pointless. The best stuff in the game comes from NPC drops anyway (which is addressed later...)
Making crafting anal
Although I do agree that EQ2's crafting system is pretty silly, I think most crafters like it that way. This type of system does drive off casual crafters, who just want to make a backback or gun here and there... but in the long run, I think it it helps out the real crafters (who ultimately drive the economy of the game). The more complex the crafting system, the better. For example, Wurm Online has a fairly realistic crafting system I think is very clever... to make an axe for example, you cut down a tree and use a knife to shape it into a handle. You then mine some iron, melt it in a furnace, and shape the heated ore on an anvil into an axe head. Finally, you combine the axe head to the handle. Makes sense, eh?
Make crafting a competition into who can horde the most knowledge
Making knowledge hard to come by would be good for FE IMO. In a post-apoc setting, tech should be one of the most vaulable assets you can find. Being able to keep the knowledge of how to make an item to yourself would be vital, so that you control a commodity. However, if the game allows knowledge hoarding, then the process of reverse engineering should definitely exist (but should also be relatively difficult).
Make crafting the ONLY way to get the most powerful items in the game
Agreed. High quality player-made items should surpass the quality of NPC drops. 'Nuff said.
Make crafting more than a progress bar... don't get anal with the sub-combines
Like I said about a complex crafting system earlier, I think sub-combines are a good thing. For example, making an energy weapon could require multiple parts... lets say 5. These parts could include stuff like the stock, handle, energy unit, barrel, and trigger. By allowing this many sub-combines, you open the door for specialized crafters, and better item utilization. A crafter could be REALLY good at making barrels, and the good part about them is that a certain barrel could be used in multiple items... not just one specific gun. This way gun manufacturers could buy large quantities of barrels from this crafter, and use them in many different guns.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
Galaxies' crafting was awesome. I was a Smuggler (gunslinger/petty crook) and besides a few fighting tricks, I could also craft slicing (hacking) tools, and spices (drugs). To craft it was simple, you take the materials required (say 10 aluminum and 10 other metal), stick them in their spots (which are labeled as to what component they are) and then try to create it. For most artisans (the main crafting professions), they would also get to add bonuses to various parts of the piece depending on how good they were (a master weaponsmith could add several bonuses to damage and/or speed).
I think we should see something like this, but more akin to the crafting you could do in the RPG Arcanum. Say you wanted to make a revolver, well you'd need the revolving 6 chamber and a flintlock pistol. Want to make that revolver silenced, take it and add a tin can to the end. So take Galaxies, and have certain things you can have for each piece and their quality (poor, fair, good execlent, perfect) affects how good they item is. You could even have multiple qualities for more complex parts (well, the bareless revolver has a good set of chambers and a fair handle, but the trigger is poor and may break in the building process). Parts for high end items would be few and far between, and the crafters would be able to give items bonuses depending on the item (hollow point bullets, longer ranged rifles, etc).
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I agree partially. Okay so theres all kinds of nuclear fallout, disease and war riddled wasteland but, that doesn't exactly mean all the guns just dissapeared I wouldn't think. Guns shouldn't be so rare so much as to regard anyone carrying one, some kind of crazy hardcore badass but, the guy carrying one and has the ammo to match it
. Guns are aplenty these days and from past experience we've run outta ammo long before our guns dissapeared.
Though I would also like to see a profession that does allow you to make guns. People don't just forget the basic idea that its better to bring a gun to a knife fight.
Here's to YOU future gunsmiths
Lead with your face and role with the punches.
Crafting would also be good in this post holocaust genre if you could repair broken equipment. I think repairing equipment should be a major part of crafting.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
I never played SWG so I don't know anything about the crafting, But I like the idea of customization, especially in armor. In WoW there was a variety of armor but after awhile everyone looked the same. I would like to see a system were you can add baubles and peripherials to armor and change the color. This way everyone can indiviualize there toons.
Also, I think that items, especially firearms, should have a reliabilty factor. Well made weapons should almost always work and poorly made weapons should jam from time to time. Maintenance could also be added to repair so that epuipment should be kept in good working order or they will begin to fail.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
Heres how I envision creating a weapon, in the best SWG/Arcanum mash up:
You have found a schematic, read in a book, or been taught how to make a pistol. Now the schematics have several sections which are neccessary: Barrel (a length of pipe works), trigger and inner housing (one part, almost always has to be bought/scrounged unless you may be able to find a schematic for it), Handle (piece of wood would do). Now each can have several different things put in it, true gun barrels or just pipes can be used, and it decides the range of the weapon, the housing would have to be manufactured and determines how fast the weapon shoots and how many rounds it holds, and the handle decides the rest of accuracy.
Now in addition to that, we have several parts which are not neccessary, but optional: scope and rifle butt for instance for a pistol. Scope would give you a zoomed vision, while a rifle butt would give you a little better accuracy (or alot if its automatic). The butt could be made with just a piece of wood, while the scope would need a little more work (but not too much if you don't mind a crappy scope).
Most parts can either be built or just have scrap used. This allows for both the random looter and the crafter to compete, but the crafter will always be on top. This is because, 1) many parts just found will not be made to work in the capacity they will be used and thus be of poor quality, or 2) old parts made for that kind of work will be worn out and also be of not so good quality. Also, the crafter, as they get better (wether crafting be skill or time based), will be able to choose which parts to work on and give bonuses to (a part of SWG crafting I especially liked). When they get really good, the will even be able to mark the weapon as "Made By" them (a nice little thing in the info of an item).
This allows both a crafter and a non-crafter to be able to gather the parts (or just buy them from merchants if they want) and have someone put them toghether. The skill of the crafter who puts it together allows to put bonuses to items, as well as raises the items' reliablity.
I also like dedthom's idea about a high level of customization. Lets say you have some football shoulder pads. You add some leather to make them useful to things other than physical blows, then decide to add some big spikes and change the color. After that, you decide to add skulls to the spikes. The possiblilities are endless!
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Hi Chthuluvong,
that's pretty much what I think. There is, however, one more twist I would add:
Crafters who build a component from the ground up could select between various raw materials. This would influence
-the weight of the item (important if the load of your character affects the runspeed)
-the durability (important if the game has item decay)
-the look of the items (would require the devs to add multiple textures, but add to customization)
-In some cases, the power of the items. Example: An electric motor with copper windings will be more efficient than one with aluminium windings, because copper is a better conductor.
Non-crafters would not be affected, as they could still use their scrounged components.
awesome
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Dedthom hit the nail on the head, I've been playing MMOs in my free time for a couple of years, and no matter how original or how in-depth a game claims to be, in the end, there is always one armor and one weapon that are uber over everything else and that what everyone has. Everyone always winds up looking the same. Let us put stuff on our armor that has no effect on the armor other than a visual one. Let us etch symbols or phrases into our armor, or hang skulls or teeth from the shoulders of our armor. One thing I have been thinking about ever since SWG went live was that in higher end games like Fallen Earth, there should be included a basic 3-D editing tool with which players who choose to go the route of the crafter could make there weapons look any way they want. The devs could include with the tool a set of basic templates for different weapons like guns and swords and axes etc. Of course, before being implemented, the designs would have to be approved by a Dev to assure that they are appropriate for the game. That said, though, I still do not feel that there shouldn't be crafting in FE for weapons. Everything should be found, repaired then implemented. Take it easy ya'll
BACK IN THE BOX RIPPER!!!
Step away from the idea get back in the box Ripper and nobody gets hurt , no one gets any ideas and no one thinks crafting may actually be a fun way to play an MMO.
Fun ,customizable , useful crafting is just an illusion. No one cares about that, all they want to do is do mind numbing grinds and raids for l33t gear.
Lets just say I agree and offer some thoughts on improving it..
Trade Skills and Overlays
I like items, but think they could be given more depth and meaning. To do this, the setup would have to be linked to tradeskills.
Start small and go from there...
Cloth should be able to be dyed, and a tradeskill related to the dying of cloth would work well for it. Dye creation would be a part of it. I always liked the idea of the metal for armor was the factor of what color that armor would be. If you made it with the reddish/orange ore found in X area, the armor would be reddish or orange in color once made. Its a fictional world, create new ores to give the players some options to the color of their armor other then silverish or rusty.
Now time to think big..
Give tradeskills subdivisions for each tradeskill: Creation, Embellishment, Improvement, Repair, Rework.
Creation is the actual creation of the item itself. Depending on the players skill level and the materials used, Embellishment/Improvement, and Repair would both have a value given them during Creation. Embellishment and Improvement would share a value.
Embellishment would be adding additional looks to a piece. Giving a sword runes that glow, or adding gold etchwork to a piece of armor, or giving a robe a fancy trim or fur collar.
Improvement would be adding additional function to the piece. Giving a gun a bonus to be able to hit, a piece of armor extra AC, or a robe the ability to store a small amount of goods like a pack. Ideally a Improvement should change the actual look of the piece as well, but more subtle then a Embellishment.
Improvement and Embellishment share a pool of points given to the item at creation. You could alter a piece of armor to look really awesome, but be basic armor; or you could alter the same piece to look really plain but have some nice bonuses. Anything in between is possible...
Both check the skill level in the related tradeskill at the time of Improvement and Embellishment. The higher the skill the more you can do with the points in the pool.
Repair has its own pool of points and determines how many times it can be repaired to fully functionality after being damaged over time from use. Once the repair points are gone the item can't be repaired further, but it can be Reworked. Reworking takes roughly half the materials needed to actually Create it. This should be a longish period of time before this happens, and something that should only happen once or maybe twice before a upgrade is found.
As with the others, Repair checks against the tradeskill and the higher the skill the more effect you get from them, for less cost.
To allow all this to work, items would need to have a Overlay. Think graphic layers or even modular item design. Take a sword for example.. its has its base graphic and a Overlay. The Overlay is where the Embellishment/Improvement would take place, and be just that; a graphic that overlays and adds to the basic graphics of the sword itself.
Ideally this setup would work best with a Skill based MMO, rather then a Level based one. It adds a lot of depth to tradeskills and gives them meaning and importance throughout the life of the character. The point of this is, instead of creating a continual line of progression of items that match the levels of the character; it instead gives a item that could possibly be used for the life of the character. Its not the item that makes the character grow, its the skills of the character, the skills of the player, and the character's stats. This provides a means for items to grow with the character, still gives meaning to items, puts lot of focus on tradeskills, and keeps the focus on the character.
The great thing is, there's nothing stopping anyone from adding in bigger and better items as well. Instead of them being prolific throughout the world though, there wouldn't need to be as many of them and they'd remain special because of that.
If you think about it for a bit, the possibilities of such a system are huge and would add a unbelievable amount of depth and character customization through their items as well as their skills.
Datawight - Speed is Life, Glory a Necessity, Death a Given!
*cheers Datawight*
Excellent post! I think if we combine your ideas concerning the processes items go through with the concept of modular item recipies, we have an ideal crafting system. In particular, I really like the concepts of reworking an item, and having embellishment as an option instead of improvement. It makes sense that repairing an item will gradually wear it down, and every now and then would need to be completely reworked. This solves the issue of people getting pissed that items eventually break (like in SWG). Items can still break, but technically you can keep them forever if you are smart about reworking/repairing it.
The embellishment idea is just great... I would love being able to make super snazzy looking guns that have terrible aim, and shoddy looking pistols with incredible accuracy. To further this idea, it would be nice if you can't easily detect the stats of a weapon. With a high enough skill in firearms, you can appraise an item to get a feel if it is good or not, but no instantly knowing "2d8+1 damage". A vague system like this is not only more realistic, but also makes crafter reptuation very important. The only real way to know if a crafter makes quality weapons would be to talk to someone who has used their merchandise for a while.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
sinoth,
That's exactly what I thought when I read this thread.. between the couple ideas posted here, there exists a VERY good crafting system in the making. The basics have been covered, the processes have been covered, and all that would be left is for a write up the "how" of the interface to do it all.
Give the modular item recipes and my item processes a smooth, reasonable, and well thought out interface and mechanics to make it happen.. oh man.. I soooo want to experience a crafting system like that.
Makes to much sense though.. not enough grind and button mashing.. so I won't be holding my breath. 8)
Datawight - Speed is Life, Glory a Necessity, Death a Given!
Well we could always add in an EQ2 style crafting puzzle thing to make you feel happy Datawight
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I am usually forum reader not wrighter well things change
My expectations on this game are really high and the posts here seem to me sensible
Idea struck me that I have found a steel tube in the game. It weights 1,5 kg and I decided not to use it as a barrel but to retrieve the material so I have got lets say 1,3 kg of steel (material lost based on skill level) and I can do anything I want whith the steel eventualy make a shorter tube
I do not suggest how the material should be stored because I am not sure here. And I would use similar to EQ2 crafting system with WoW variety of resources needed (experianced both)
And as I am wrighting I´ll put here my opinion on PvP : it is a necessity. It is a hard and dangerous world we are talking about ful of criminals. About Equip droping yes but limited similar to Lineage2 with exception that everyone should drop an item or have chance to drop it increasing chance to drop and amout of items dropped with being more evil
Hope you don´t shoot me at the spot
Another thing you kill mob or a player and he drops a gun. Give there a possibility that it has broken during combat. Now you have gun with comletely broken e.g. mechanism but you are still able to use the other parts for another gun. These parts might be slightly damged as well and that might result in the reliability of the made gun.
You can also find a wrecked car in the wastes with some parts still usable and you take them and use them when making your own one.
Just examples I´m thinking aloud
SWG, no doubt.
Plus you had your Krayt Tissue drops to enhance ranged weapons, and nym/NS/acklay/etc to enhance melee.
PERFECT!!!!!
on top of that you could loot the clothing attachments to make yourself even better.
too bad its ruined. /sigh
While I truly enjoyed crafting in SWG, Im not expecting or demanding to see such a system here.
With every scrap of info I receive about this game, I learn a little more about these developers mindset. Honestly, these guys have my confidence rating at 100% so whatever they decide for crafting Im sure will kick serious ass.
I've been working on an idea for a crafting system in FE that I think would be fun.
After surviving the apocalypse, I don't think people are going to be too concerned with mining ore, smelting and casting metal, and forging weapons. I think people would more than likely take to scavenging the things they need. Thats why the system I have thought of involves scavening parts rather than making them yourself. Think of it kinda like a junkyard wars kinda thing.
In this system, scattered throughout the world are junkyards, just like there are in real life. And just like in real life, there are different kinds of junkyards, where players can find different items to fulfill different purposes.
Scrapyard: The name essentially describes its purpose. Here is where the player can find all manner of scrap metal, stuctural metal, and sheet metal. This metal could be used to make, repair, or reinforce a melee weapon, for structural parts for a vehicle, or armor.
Salvage Yard: Here the player can find junk vehicles in all states of repair(or disrepair). None of the vehicles found here will be in any condition to move themselves, let alone carry the player and all their belongings. A fair amount of work will be needed to make any of these vehicles usable, but luckily many of the parts you will need can be found in the salvage yard itself, or one of the other salvage yards around the world.
Military Surplus/Local Military Station: Before the fall these yards were home to all manner of decomissioned but perfectly usable weapons and munitions. Unfortunately most or all of this equipment was taken by military personell called into duty to deal the riots and uprisings during the fall, and have since then been lost, cached, or are still in the posession of various ex-soldiers. In short, good luck finding a functioning weapon in one of these places. Parts though, are another story. These massive warehouses are brimming with various parts and weapon chassis. You may not be able to find a whole weapon, but with a little patience, and a lot of skill, you'll have a weapon that would make Charleton Heston salivate.
Dump: Untold millions of tons of refuse lie here, just waiting to be discovered. Here a player can find various items to use in clothing, food, medicine, weapon accessories, armor accessories, etc. For example, you have a metal baseball bat. Whilst exploring the dump, you find an old canine shock collar. With some ingenuity, you jury rig your bat with the shock collar and you now have yourself a brand new elecro bat.
Not all the parts you find will be immediately usable (in fact, most won't). Most will have to be worked into a usable item. And to do so, the player will need some of the following skills
Machining: This is a players skill at using various machines to alter peices of metal and make them into solid parts.
Metalworking: This is the players ability to make parts which require more finesse and human input than machined parts.
Welding: The players ability to use various forms of welding to join parts to make them a whole.
Gun Working: The players knowledge of guns and their various parts, as well as the knowledge and skill to make parts for guns from random items.
Ingenuity: This is a kind of Catch-All skill which determines the players ability to extrapolate the most magnificent, useful parts, from the most worthless, trash.
I'm still working on this idea, but tell me what you think, or make any suggestions on it.
I try to picture it...
A world ravaged by war and disease where humans only survived by digging down deep into the earth and waiting for the great mother to lick her wounds. How much time goes by? We probably wont be positive but we know its considerable. So... after all this time passes and we know that most tech is buried, broken or forgotten we can assume its not like modern day. There are no tech colleges (or any schools for that matter maybe) and it seems to me like most tech would be like magic... mysterious and forgotten.
So where does that leave the beloved crafters? Well we can assume things like simple weapons and tools would still be known and used. Things like hammers, spiked clubs and what not. What about roboic factories? Well I am guessing they might still exist but who would know how to use them? What about something as simple as bullet making... that would involve chemistry, materials and the ability to reuse or create new metal shellings... but my point being is this...
Are we gonna have the skill sets? Will we be able to get the knowlege from ancient places of higher education? Are any of the great schools still standing? What about traditions of passing knowledge? so maybe we shouldnt be thinking that we could make a brand new toyota but instead be able to rig and repair pre-existing equiptment? Or maybe those of us who are truely wise to the craft being able to take a good engine, apply it to a home made frame, and getting help from the NPC old crazy wise man with all the wiring... to make a final product of a dune buggy?
Thats how I see crafting... not really making new stuff... but enhansing old and broken stuff into production capabilities.
Thoughts?