Interesting to see the Demographic poll. I figured I'd participate in it. Why not right? I personally hated Lineage 2, but like this game. It is different, and after playing it awhile better in my book.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
I never played RFO, and probably wont yet because it doesn't look fully realized. I enjoyed L2 although it has a huge gaping problem....the economy and the exaggerated value of the ingame equipment. I played the game for about 3 months before the flaws took over gameplay.
HOWEVER
I also enjoyed WoW a great deal....I enjoy its light hearted approach and its accessibility. I still hop on to this day to knock around for a bit.
I sorta like GW because its easy to pick up and drop. Its not a true MMORPG but its a fun hack and slash.
I played DAoC for a long time, (pre ToA) and in hindsight, I think this game could have been better without the horrible grind at the time. (I think they changed that now)
SWG - lol, what can anyone really say about this trainwreck (from day one)
AC - in its prime was an awesome attempt at bringing the player into story and lore of the world, to bad Turbine abandoned the game.
I am also really really looking forward to Hero's Journey...if they can pull off what they say, it sounds like a true MMORPG may be on the way. (you will need to investigate this title yourself)
MMORPGs overall have done an exceptionally poor job at creating any real gameplay (RPG) experience. Maybe this trend will change over time. Arguing over who has better kill task is just silly. Kill task provide ZERO depth to a game. From WoW to L2 they are MOSTLY kill task in the base form with no dynamic impact on the game world. In fact GW is really the only game to incorporate a storyline (although scripted) directly into the character advancement.
So what is your "theory"? that people who like RFO and L2 are bad people or lesser people? Your poll has a bias slant to it therefor invalid. I like your post and your weird irrational dislike for this game, keep them rolling
The game basically is similar to lineage 2, however if most people stick around lineage 2 they will found that for a MMORPG. Lineage 2 actually one of the most content updated game ever in history.
However, differences preferences and tastes should be account in judging Korean base game. From MMORPG statistic chart, lineage 2 still hold top 3 among many Asian country. Why ? because It fit the Asian's taste.
While games like WoW, DaoC, AC1/2 which are american made fit more the American taste.
Most people on this forum does not account taste preferences before they speak, most are just talks without facts which make most comment invalid. I wouldn't too worry about how this game compare to another American game, since this is a KOREAN game that design for Asian market.
As an asian myself, i love both games, but it fit my taste.
Actualy L2 in korea is not doing has well right now, RFO is actualy giving them trouble hehe. Anyway they got Lineage 3 in the work. Also most L2 content from the last patch is basicaly for those that are level 75 with sub classes, go read there forums you see what I mean. Seem there a problem to even has those Hero pvp fights going since there basicaly almost no high levels. Honnestly my year in L2 was reduce to grinding money most of the time so I could buy my equipment. So personnaly I dont see a big difference with RFO on the content itself, personnaly kind of tired of the all quest playing games. Rather buy a nice RPG on the PS2 for that stuff always alot better than any MMO.
Personnaly PvP a bit more evident in RFO than in L2 ( because of all the restrictions like Karma points, equipment drops and xp lost in pvp in L2 ) makes it alot harder to freelly pvp in L2, RFO its a bloodfest makes me think alot to Asheron's Call Darktide server, were at every corner there could be a nasty battle mage that would nuke you to death lol.
Anyway show me a korean game that is scifi makes things a bit different. I enjoyed L2 up to C1 after that most of the content ended just uninspiring and just a race to get 75 because thats where all there big content was at. But that not surprising since in Korea Im pretty sure there is alot more level 75 and alot less alternates char over there compare to here.
However, differences preferences and tastes should be account in judging Korean base game. From MMORPG statistic chart, lineage 2 still hold top 3 among many Asian country. Why ? because It fit the Asian's taste.
While games like WoW, DaoC, AC1/2 which are american made fit more the American taste.
Interesting, one major difference between the Asian market vs the U.S. market is the U.S. is much much more fussy. No game has really been able to get it right in that market. The U.S. really has one market "hit" which is WoW vs all the Asian market hits. When you really look at the numbers of North American WoW players (somewhere around 1 to 1.5 million out of the 5.5 or so million) you can see MMORGs really do not have that large of a following in the U.S. (compared to other countries) EQ2 never really got off the ground, even the legendary EQ never broke 750K subscribers, a number many Asian released games do easily.
Why? who knows? There is a definite difference in taste. My personal observation of L2 (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 or 4 million subscribers in Asia and about 70K in the U.S., don't quote me on that) is that the game is based on the concept of "struggle". You are prey at all levels, you struggle against the economy, you struggle against the PvE grind and you struggle against you fellow players. It provides a raw challenge. WoW on the other aims to provide entertainment. It more or less removes the "struggle" from the equation in hopes of keeping everyone entertained. The problem with this is as follows.
The North American Market is not sure what it wants from an MMORPG. Why isn't EQ2 more popular? It has nice graphics, it has lots of "content" (as defined by the current market model) It has a moderately challenging progression system, it has lots of lore, PvP has been added, and yet it doesn't suit the taste of the North American player. (Not enough to break 1 million subscribers anyway) On top of it, it clearly failed in Asia with the shutting down of the game. The Asian market seems have a much clearer market target. NA game after NA has tried time and again but so far none have even come close to the success of even L1.
(Sony Online Entertainment's massively multiplayer online role playing game (MMORPG) EverQuest II (EQ2) will end operations in China on March 30, reports Sina. EQ2 is operated by Taiwanese gaming company Gamania's mainland China subsidiary. The company stopped open beta testing account application on March 1. Gamania will begin moving all open beta accounts and in-game information on mainland China server groups to the game's server groups in North America. EQ2 began open beta testing in China on August 23. EQ2's predecessor EverQuest entered China in January 2003 and ended operation one year after.")---
SWG also closed down sometime last year, but it was clearly an unfocused and unrealized game.
The technology is not yet able to provide a "true" RPG experience. The current market definition of "content" is really very simple "kill" task, "raids" and "PvP". The problem with these are the execution. The content is static and un-dynamic. What do I mean? No matter how hard you try, the raid boss will always respawn. You have no impact on the gameworld. No matter how many different characters you make, the same NPC is there to give you the same task, go kill 10 of mob X and return to me for a shiny reward. This is a simplistic chore at best. In an RPG sense, why should I care to go risk my characters life to kill a bunch of mobs for a ripped pair of gloves? Does it earn me anything besides the basic reward? No. Will the NPC recognize me and let me in on any secrets for help him in the future? no. Does he do anything special for me because I did this favor? no. He give me a ripped pair of gloves and waits for the next PC to doll out his task. Because of this lack of depth, most players default to leveling (grinding) and loot gathering because there really is nothing better to do. Some games has implemented a "faction" system but they are usually point based systems that are easily manipulated and generally provide nothing more then some sort of static benefit like access to a mount or area. PvP is a bit trickier as it impact negitively on the losing player. Someone has to "suffer" is some form in order for someone else to have "fun" How can you balance this? Its a matter of taste I guess. How should the PvP impact the gameworld? Well the shooter formula has worked in WoW and GW but is it truely dynamic or emersive? NO. Capturing a flag or resourse spot on the same map over and over again gaining points for equipment benefits is........A KILL TASK! You are simply grinding other players rather then mobs.
The latest trend in MMORPG is to add PvP as a primary feature. (evidenced - WoW, GW, EQII recently, DAoC, and of course L2) While this in itself isn't a bad thing, again the market at large sends a lot of mixed messages about what it wants. Open PvP, consensual PvP, instanced zones, common zones, who the heck knows what the NA MMORPG market wants? One thing is clear, the PC game market appears to "know" what it wants. Shooters have defined the PvP genre. For whatever reason the MMORPG market resist the tried and proven formula. At least until WoW and GW used it. And guess what? It worked. (from a market standpoint)
Until you see a shift from the progressive "level" system, all you can really expect from any MMO is grind chores. As long as the "math" of a character is the primary focus you can expect nothing better. There must be a shift to individualized or dynamic content that is not instanced. Thats my opinion anyway.
I play DAoC (rvr on the weekend), CoH/CoV periodically, and I'm trying DDO in addition to slowly leveling up on RF Online. It kind of reminds me of Legend of Mir/Myth of Soma due to the leveling up. It's different enough that I'm still playing it.
Comments
Interesting to see the Demographic poll. I figured I'd participate in it. Why not right? I personally hated Lineage 2, but like this game. It is different, and after playing it awhile better in my book.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
I never played RFO, and probably wont yet because it doesn't look fully realized. I enjoyed L2 although it has a huge gaping problem....the economy and the exaggerated value of the ingame equipment. I played the game for about 3 months before the flaws took over gameplay.
HOWEVER
I also enjoyed WoW a great deal....I enjoy its light hearted approach and its accessibility. I still hop on to this day to knock around for a bit.
I sorta like GW because its easy to pick up and drop. Its not a true MMORPG but its a fun hack and slash.
I played DAoC for a long time, (pre ToA) and in hindsight, I think this game could have been better without the horrible grind at the time. (I think they changed that now)
SWG - lol, what can anyone really say about this trainwreck (from day one)
AC - in its prime was an awesome attempt at bringing the player into story and lore of the world, to bad Turbine abandoned the game.
I am also really really looking forward to Hero's Journey...if they can pull off what they say, it sounds like a true MMORPG may be on the way. (you will need to investigate this title yourself)
MMORPGs overall have done an exceptionally poor job at creating any real gameplay (RPG) experience. Maybe this trend will change over time. Arguing over who has better kill task is just silly. Kill task provide ZERO depth to a game. From WoW to L2 they are MOSTLY kill task in the base form with no dynamic impact on the game world. In fact GW is really the only game to incorporate a storyline (although scripted) directly into the character advancement.
So what is your "theory"? that people who like RFO and L2 are bad people or lesser people? Your poll has a bias slant to it therefor invalid. I like your post and your weird irrational dislike for this game, keep them rolling
The game basically is similar to lineage 2, however if most people stick around lineage 2 they will found that for a MMORPG. Lineage 2 actually one of the most content updated game ever in history.
However, differences preferences and tastes should be account in judging Korean base game. From MMORPG statistic chart, lineage 2 still hold top 3 among many Asian country. Why ? because It fit the Asian's taste.
While games like WoW, DaoC, AC1/2 which are american made fit more the American taste.
Most people on this forum does not account taste preferences before they speak, most are just talks without facts which make most comment invalid. I wouldn't too worry about how this game compare to another American game, since this is a KOREAN game that design for Asian market.
As an asian myself, i love both games, but it fit my taste.
none
Actualy L2 in korea is not doing has well right now, RFO is actualy giving them trouble hehe. Anyway they got Lineage 3 in the work. Also most L2 content from the last patch is basicaly for those that are level 75 with sub classes, go read there forums you see what I mean. Seem there a problem to even has those Hero pvp fights going since there basicaly almost no high levels. Honnestly my year in L2 was reduce to grinding money most of the time so I could buy my equipment. So personnaly I dont see a big difference with RFO on the content itself, personnaly kind of tired of the all quest playing games. Rather buy a nice RPG on the PS2 for that stuff always alot better than any MMO.
Personnaly PvP a bit more evident in RFO than in L2 ( because of all the restrictions like Karma points, equipment drops and xp lost in pvp in L2 ) makes it alot harder to freelly pvp in L2, RFO its a bloodfest makes me think alot to Asheron's Call Darktide server, were at every corner there could be a nasty battle mage that would nuke you to death lol.
Anyway show me a korean game that is scifi makes things a bit different. I enjoyed L2 up to C1 after that most of the content ended just uninspiring and just a race to get 75 because thats where all there big content was at. But that not surprising since in Korea Im pretty sure there is alot more level 75 and alot less alternates char over there compare to here.
However, differences preferences and tastes should be account in judging Korean base game. From MMORPG statistic chart, lineage 2 still hold top 3 among many Asian country. Why ? because It fit the Asian's taste.
While games like WoW, DaoC, AC1/2 which are american made fit more the American taste.
Interesting, one major difference between the Asian market vs the U.S. market is the U.S. is much much more fussy. No game has really been able to get it right in that market. The U.S. really has one market "hit" which is WoW vs all the Asian market hits. When you really look at the numbers of North American WoW players (somewhere around 1 to 1.5 million out of the 5.5 or so million) you can see MMORGs really do not have that large of a following in the U.S. (compared to other countries) EQ2 never really got off the ground, even the legendary EQ never broke 750K subscribers, a number many Asian released games do easily.
Why? who knows? There is a definite difference in taste. My personal observation of L2 (somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 or 4 million subscribers in Asia and about 70K in the U.S., don't quote me on that) is that the game is based on the concept of "struggle". You are prey at all levels, you struggle against the economy, you struggle against the PvE grind and you struggle against you fellow players. It provides a raw challenge. WoW on the other aims to provide entertainment. It more or less removes the "struggle" from the equation in hopes of keeping everyone entertained. The problem with this is as follows.
The North American Market is not sure what it wants from an MMORPG. Why isn't EQ2 more popular? It has nice graphics, it has lots of "content" (as defined by the current market model) It has a moderately challenging progression system, it has lots of lore, PvP has been added, and yet it doesn't suit the taste of the North American player. (Not enough to break 1 million subscribers anyway) On top of it, it clearly failed in Asia with the shutting down of the game. The Asian market seems have a much clearer market target. NA game after NA has tried time and again but so far none have even come close to the success of even L1.
(Sony Online Entertainment's massively multiplayer online role playing game (MMORPG) EverQuest II (EQ2) will end operations in China on March 30, reports Sina. EQ2 is operated by Taiwanese gaming company Gamania's mainland China subsidiary. The company stopped open beta testing account application on March 1. Gamania will begin moving all open beta accounts and in-game information on mainland China server groups to the game's server groups in North America. EQ2 began open beta testing in China on August 23. EQ2's predecessor EverQuest entered China in January 2003 and ended operation one year after.")---
SWG also closed down sometime last year, but it was clearly an unfocused and unrealized game.
The technology is not yet able to provide a "true" RPG experience. The current market definition of "content" is really very simple "kill" task, "raids" and "PvP". The problem with these are the execution. The content is static and un-dynamic. What do I mean? No matter how hard you try, the raid boss will always respawn. You have no impact on the gameworld. No matter how many different characters you make, the same NPC is there to give you the same task, go kill 10 of mob X and return to me for a shiny reward. This is a simplistic chore at best. In an RPG sense, why should I care to go risk my characters life to kill a bunch of mobs for a ripped pair of gloves? Does it earn me anything besides the basic reward? No. Will the NPC recognize me and let me in on any secrets for help him in the future? no. Does he do anything special for me because I did this favor? no. He give me a ripped pair of gloves and waits for the next PC to doll out his task. Because of this lack of depth, most players default to leveling (grinding) and loot gathering because there really is nothing better to do. Some games has implemented a "faction" system but they are usually point based systems that are easily manipulated and generally provide nothing more then some sort of static benefit like access to a mount or area. PvP is a bit trickier as it impact negitively on the losing player. Someone has to "suffer" is some form in order for someone else to have "fun" How can you balance this? Its a matter of taste I guess. How should the PvP impact the gameworld? Well the shooter formula has worked in WoW and GW but is it truely dynamic or emersive? NO. Capturing a flag or resourse spot on the same map over and over again gaining points for equipment benefits is........A KILL TASK! You are simply grinding other players rather then mobs.
The latest trend in MMORPG is to add PvP as a primary feature. (evidenced - WoW, GW, EQII recently, DAoC, and of course L2) While this in itself isn't a bad thing, again the market at large sends a lot of mixed messages about what it wants. Open PvP, consensual PvP, instanced zones, common zones, who the heck knows what the NA MMORPG market wants? One thing is clear, the PC game market appears to "know" what it wants. Shooters have defined the PvP genre. For whatever reason the MMORPG market resist the tried and proven formula. At least until WoW and GW used it. And guess what? It worked. (from a market standpoint)
Until you see a shift from the progressive "level" system, all you can really expect from any MMO is grind chores. As long as the "math" of a character is the primary focus you can expect nothing better. There must be a shift to individualized or dynamic content that is not instanced. Thats my opinion anyway.
I play DAoC (rvr on the weekend), CoH/CoV periodically, and I'm trying DDO in addition to slowly leveling up on RF Online. It kind of reminds me of Legend of Mir/Myth of Soma due to the leveling up. It's different enough that I'm still playing it.