I don't think there is a mmorpg out at the moment that encourages grouping with other players to progress or accomplish tasks.
With all due respect; this makes no sense, just about every MMORPG has group content. Be it dungeons, elite mobs/bosses/areas, Raids, all kinds of differing forms of PVP from small group matches to large open areas designed for many players to work together. It's also where you will find most of the high end rewards, how much more encouragement can they add?
Post edited by Distopia on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think there is a mmorpg out at the moment that encourages grouping with other players to progress or accomplish tasks.
With all due respect; this makes no sense, just about every MMORPG has group content. Be it dungeons, elite mobs/bosses/areas, Raids, all kinds of differing forms of PVP from small group matches to large open areas designed for many players to work together. It's also where you will find most of the high end rewards, how much more encouragement can they add?
To understand what Vardahoth was trying to say, you need to replace "encourages" with "forces" in his post. The grouping proponents don't accept compromises, since when people do have the choice, they may choose to not play the way they want to...
It really does seem that way sometimes.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't think there is a mmorpg out at the moment that encourages grouping with other players to progress or accomplish tasks.
With all due respect; this makes no sense, just about every MMORPG has group content. Be it dungeons, elite mobs/bosses/areas, Raids, all kinds of differing forms of PVP from small group matches to large open areas designed for many players to work together. It's also where you will find most of the high end rewards, how much more encouragement can they add?
To understand what Vardahoth was trying to say, you need to replace "encourages" with "forces" in his post. The grouping proponents don't accept compromises, since when people do have the choice, they may choose to not play the way they want to...
It really does seem that way sometimes.
Usually if there is some form of grouping with strategy and class roles there is going to be an optimal way to play as a group. If people don't want to play that way then they can either find like minded people who want to play the way they want, solo, or quit. If the content at the end game is as hard is it should be in a group encouraged game then it's likely you will need people to perform optimally in their role in order to complete the tasks presented. Perhaps it's better if the person chose a role that they liked to play instead of choosing a healer and deciding they want to play DPS.
I was thinking about MMOs and discussing them with a group of friends at lunch today. I am beginning to feel a bit like MMOs have become less fun. It could be that I am getting old, priorities are changing, or perhaps I am just not that into games anymore or was it something else? My thoughts led me to the concept that maybe it is is the focus on soloing. I feel like, in comparison to MMOs I really enjoyed, that the three BIG MMOs (SWTOR, FFXIV, WOW) are becoming more and more focused on solo play, or at least are encouraging solo play more and more. My first two MMOs were DAOC and FFXI. In those games you would get a group and go grind monsters. This was the best XP. Now you just go out and solo grind monsters and they call this questing. I get the desire to allow people to solo, but I believe they are making it the focus of MMOs now-a-days. Am I wrong?
The fact that you call it "now you just go out and solo grind monsters" indicates that you're playing the wrong MMOs there. Find yourself a nice Korean grinder, since you clearly can't appreciate the MMOs that actually have stories in them.
Most people don't want to be grouped all the time to be able to be productive, and there's few things more boring than playing on weird hours and having to spend all your online time actually finding a group, or feeling "Bah, I really don't want to deal with people and all their BS today... guess playing that MMO is out... I'll go play a single player game instead." which soon turns into "Why am I actually still paying for this crap since I can never get anything done by myself?!" *cancels sub*
Devs very much don't like the above scenario, hence the focus on solo content, with group content being more for the hardcore with plenty of time on their hands. (See raids and similar content) It was a failed model that held back the genre. A point that WoW drove home hard to other developers by leaving them all in the dust by having a game that actually supported a solo style while still having plenty of group content at endgame.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Usually if there is some form of grouping with strategy and class roles there is going to be an optimal way to play as a group. If people don't want to play that way then they can either find like minded people who want to play the way they want, solo, or quit. If the content at the end game is as hard is it should be in a group encouraged game then it's likely you will need people to perform optimally in their role in order to complete the tasks presented. Perhaps it's better if the person chose a role that they liked to play instead of choosing a healer and deciding they want to play DPS.
I'll chalk it up to my own confusion due to partaking in multiple threads, I was just trying to discern the point you were making in regard to my post. Were you saying the group content is not hard enough, or the people partaking are bad at playing their role, which nullifies the encouragement?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am all for a great story, and a fantastic quest storyline. However, you must agree that most quests in MMORPGs now-a-days consist of killing 5-10 monsters with a very limited story of "these bad, me pay". Right now I am playing FFXIV, loving the story. However, I just am soloing because there doesn't seem to be any incentive yet to play with someone else.
I suppose what I am saying is, it would be cool if a MMORPG's more RPG elements (story) were solo friendly and group friendly. I feel like it leans towards a more solo pushed efficiency.
I am all for a great story, and a fantastic quest storyline. However, you must agree that most quests in MMORPGs now-a-days consist of killing 5-10 monsters with a very limited story of "these bad, me pay". Right now I am playing FFXIV, loving the story. However, I just am soloing because there doesn't seem to be any incentive yet to play with someone else.
I suppose what I am saying is, it would be cool if a MMORPG's more RPG elements (story) were solo friendly and group friendly. I feel like it leans towards a more solo pushed efficiency.
I agree .
It is very easy to find a wall, kick your football/soccer ball at it, let the wall bounce it back and think you are playing football/soccer. You are not though no matter how much fun you are having kicking the ball against the wall.
Crating monsters that use tactics and requires strategy to kill them is not easy. To create the dungeon, create the quests and denizens that live in the dungeon. To create the story involving the dungeon, its denizens, traps and what the dungeon boss and guards do when they see someone is not easy. Then, link that to the areas that are used to access it and the areas beyond that and link the story, lore and NPCs who react to those that venture there takes time, creativity and money. I hate small zones, kill x for y quests, and PVP without faction hits or a world purpose. However, these last 3 things are cheap and fast to make. Add in a cash shop that makes it easier for players in some way and you have a money maker for a while.
If they could just introduce some sort of incentive to group up to quest, besides the usual "this is too hard to solo" reason. I get why we need solo content now, people want to play the content but not have to wait for groups or put together groups or anything like that. Which is totally fine, sometimes I love soloing. I am glad that they made it so everything can solo, I remember when healers couldn't. However, I believe it has gone too far and they really need to bring back a bit more of the Massively Multiplayer that is missing.
SWTOR, for example, if you quest together you get all those chances to weave in dialogue. Fantastic! You even get some sort of social currency. However, it all falls apart when it comes to your class storyline. Couldn't they find a way to weave in other players with that?
WOW, the only reason to ever group in that game is to dungeon / raid or PvP.
FFXIV, starting to seem like WOW in the reasons one might group. They do have the cool FATE system, where you kind of are in a public group of sorts. However, there is zero interaction really.
What I would love to see is the return of zones where they are incredibly hard and challenging to solo. Sort of like BAMs in Tera Online. You can bring a group or you can solo. Have it be totally optional. I would love to see a totally flexible dungeon / raid system that let you bring 1 to 40 people with you and it would scale.
I don't think we will ever grab that MASSIVELY Multiplayer ever again, so maybe we can shoot for groups of people, 2-8 but with no forced limitations.
I am all for a great story, and a fantastic quest storyline. However, you must agree that most quests in MMORPGs now-a-days consist of killing 5-10 monsters with a very limited story of "these bad, me pay". Right now I am playing FFXIV, loving the story. However, I just am soloing because there doesn't seem to be any incentive yet to play with someone else.
I suppose what I am saying is, it would be cool if a MMORPG's more RPG elements (story) were solo friendly and group friendly. I feel like it leans towards a more solo pushed efficiency.
It would be nice if some MMOs took note of City of Heroes' old mission scaling mechanics or something, yeah...
But I'm guessing it's a lot of work, and most can't be bothered because their data suggests most people prefer to solo anyway while leveling up.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
If they could just introduce some sort of incentive to group up to quest, besides the usual "this is too hard to solo" reason. I get why we need solo content now, people want to play the content but not have to wait for groups or put together groups or anything like that. Which is totally fine, sometimes I love soloing. I am glad that they made it so everything can solo, I remember when healers couldn't. However, I believe it has gone too far and they really need to bring back a bit more of the Massively Multiplayer that is missing.
SWTOR, for example, if you quest together you get all those chances to weave in dialogue. Fantastic! You even get some sort of social currency. However, it all falls apart when it comes to your class storyline. Couldn't they find a way to weave in other players with that?
WOW, the only reason to ever group in that game is to dungeon / raid or PvP.
FFXIV, starting to seem like WOW in the reasons one might group. They do have the cool FATE system, where you kind of are in a public group of sorts. However, there is zero interaction really.
What I would love to see is the return of zones where they are incredibly hard and challenging to solo. Sort of like BAMs in Tera Online. You can bring a group or you can solo. Have it be totally optional. I would love to see a totally flexible dungeon / raid system that let you bring 1 to 40 people with you and it would scale.
I don't think we will ever grab that MASSIVELY Multiplayer ever again, so maybe we can shoot for groups of people, 2-8 but with no forced limitations.
How about get rid of vast vertical power gain. All it does is isolate the population. The grind has been rejected. Not many people want to take forever to reach the peak of their characters if its quest or mob grinding. That's why so many games have fast leveling not held up by anything including grouping. You add in the over refinement of the the genre with convenience there is nothing left for group combat.
Come to the sandbox side. Players will accept other interdependency outside of combat. Removing huge vertical gains in power allows player skill to come more into play. Content also remains difficult forever and can't accessed by more people. Developers are already deleveling players which nearly accomplishes the same thing.
Hmmm, interesting points Azaron and Vermillion. I did play COH for a long while, loved the scaling and level sync system, hated the lack of items / drops. They shouldn't be the focus, but they add some fun. I played a lot of GW1, and ya it really fast tracked you to the very low level cap, but you kept going because.. of reasons. Story, I suppose and the unlocking of skills. It stopped being about a vertical gain and became more about customizing the character and playing the story. That game was pretty good.
I wish some of these developer's would stop trying for WoW 2 and go for something new and fresh to the genre.
I was thinking about MMOs and discussing them with a group of friends at lunch today. I am beginning to feel a bit like MMOs have become less fun. It could be that I am getting old, priorities are changing, or perhaps I am just not that into games anymore or was it something else? My thoughts led me to the concept that maybe it is is the focus on soloing. I feel like, in comparison to MMOs I really enjoyed, that the three BIG MMOs (SWTOR, FFXIV, WOW) are becoming more and more focused on solo play, or at least are encouraging solo play more and more. My first two MMOs were DAOC and FFXI. In those games you would get a group and go grind monsters. This was the best XP. Now you just go out and solo grind monsters and they call this questing. I get the desire to allow people to solo, but I believe they are making it the focus of MMOs now-a-days. Am I wrong?
Basically like you already said is you're getting old, and tired of killing mobs over and over again. That magic this genre once had for you is essentially gone. In a word you're just "bored".
There are too many threads about the same subject, I get it. Should the mods consolidate? Absolutely.
But the bickering between these two clowns has nothing to do with the OP. They keep moving their petty arguing from thread to thread, filling them up with nonsensical arguments that makes it hard to follow the point of the thread.
I was thinking about MMOs and discussing them with a group of friends at lunch today. I am beginning to feel a bit like MMOs have become less fun. It could be that I am getting old, priorities are changing, or perhaps I am just not that into games anymore or was it something else? My thoughts led me to the concept that maybe it is is the focus on soloing. I feel like, in comparison to MMOs I really enjoyed, that the three BIG MMOs (SWTOR, FFXIV, WOW) are becoming more and more focused on solo play, or at least are encouraging solo play more and more. My first two MMOs were DAOC and FFXI. In those games you would get a group and go grind monsters. This was the best XP. Now you just go out and solo grind monsters and they call this questing. I get the desire to allow people to solo, but I believe they are making it the focus of MMOs now-a-days. Am I wrong?
You aren't the target audience anymore, also the mmo genre is trying to attract more non mmo players these days. So it's more of a single player game with people around now.
There is a mass of mmo players but they won't leave wow to play another mmo no matter what.
Forgrimm, I don't understand the desire to tell people to stop talking. It is an OPEN forum. Why would we have 1 thread with hundreds of people talking on it when we can have 10 threads with 10 people talking on it? Are we going to use up the internet? Trust me, I think the internet can handle a few more threads on an Open forum. Relax bud.
Forgrimm, I don't understand the desire to tell people to stop talking. It is an OPEN forum. Why would we have 1 thread with hundreds of people talking on it when we can have 10 threads with 10 people talking on it? Are we going to use up the internet? Trust me, I think the internet can handle a few more threads on an Open forum. Relax bud.
Where did I tell anyone to stop talking lol. I responded to the person who said "Should the mods consolidate? Absolutely." by pointing out the fact that there is a sticky for the topic. Stickies are created for this very reason, so there isn't 5 different threads on the 1st page all saying the same thing.
Forgrimm, I don't understand the desire to tell people to stop talking. It is an OPEN forum. Why would we have 1 thread with hundreds of people talking on it when we can have 10 threads with 10 people talking on it? Are we going to use up the internet? Trust me, I think the internet can handle a few more threads on an Open forum. Relax bud.
Where did I tell anyone to stop talking lol. I responded to the person who said "Should the mods consolidate? Absolutely." by pointing out the fact that there is a sticky for the topic. Stickies are created for this very reason, so there isn't 5 different threads on the 1st page all saying the same thing.
Well, let us try to stay on topic. I would just like to say when someone rolls into a thread and doesn't continue the conversation at hand, instead says something along the lines of "there are already threads about this topic" it seems like they are trying to derail the conversation.
Well, let us try to stay on topic. I would just like to say when someone rolls into a thread and doesn't continue the conversation at hand, instead says something along the lines of "there are already threads about this topic" it seems like they are trying to derail the conversation.
Look at my first post in this thread again. I was replying to a post about the topic already being derailed.
Well, let us try to stay on topic. I would just like to say when someone rolls into a thread and doesn't continue the conversation at hand, instead says something along the lines of "there are already threads about this topic" it seems like they are trying to derail the conversation.
Look at my first post in this thread again. I was replying to a post about the topic already being derailed.
Agreed bud, it is text so perhaps I'm not coming through as I would like. My first post concerning you was an agreement. The second was saying we should just ignore people who say we should consolidate the threads or there are too many. I just realized how to use this quote function.
Well, let us try to stay on topic. I would just like to say when someone rolls into a thread and doesn't continue the conversation at hand, instead says something along the lines of "there are already threads about this topic" it seems like they are trying to derail the conversation.
Look at my first post in this thread again. I was replying to a post about the topic already being derailed.
Agreed bud, it is text so perhaps I'm not coming through as I would like. My first post concerning you was an agreement. The second was saying we should just ignore people who say we should consolidate the threads or there are too many. I just realized how to use this quote function.
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Most people don't want to be grouped all the time to be able to be productive, and there's few things more boring than playing on weird hours and having to spend all your online time actually finding a group, or feeling "Bah, I really don't want to deal with people and all their BS today... guess playing that MMO is out... I'll go play a single player game instead." which soon turns into "Why am I actually still paying for this crap since I can never get anything done by myself?!" *cancels sub*
Devs very much don't like the above scenario, hence the focus on solo content, with group content being more for the hardcore with plenty of time on their hands. (See raids and similar content)
It was a failed model that held back the genre. A point that WoW drove home hard to other developers by leaving them all in the dust by having a game that actually supported a solo style while still having plenty of group content at endgame.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I suppose what I am saying is, it would be cool if a MMORPG's more RPG elements (story) were solo friendly and group friendly. I feel like it leans towards a more solo pushed efficiency.
I agree .
It is very easy to find a wall, kick your football/soccer ball at it, let the wall bounce it back and think you are playing football/soccer. You are not though no matter how much fun you are having kicking the ball against the wall.
HBS-HELLBOUNDSOLDIERS
http://hellboundsoldiers.org/portal/forum.php
https://discord.gg/brgbpvY
SWTOR, for example, if you quest together you get all those chances to weave in dialogue. Fantastic! You even get some sort of social currency. However, it all falls apart when it comes to your class storyline. Couldn't they find a way to weave in other players with that?
WOW, the only reason to ever group in that game is to dungeon / raid or PvP.
FFXIV, starting to seem like WOW in the reasons one might group. They do have the cool FATE system, where you kind of are in a public group of sorts. However, there is zero interaction really.
What I would love to see is the return of zones where they are incredibly hard and challenging to solo. Sort of like BAMs in Tera Online. You can bring a group or you can solo. Have it be totally optional. I would love to see a totally flexible dungeon / raid system that let you bring 1 to 40 people with you and it would scale.
I don't think we will ever grab that MASSIVELY Multiplayer ever again, so maybe we can shoot for groups of people, 2-8 but with no forced limitations.
But I'm guessing it's a lot of work, and most can't be bothered because their data suggests most people prefer to solo anyway while leveling up.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
How about get rid of vast vertical power gain. All it does is isolate the population. The grind has been rejected. Not many people want to take forever to reach the peak of their characters if its quest or mob grinding. That's why so many games have fast leveling not held up by anything including grouping. You add in the over refinement of the the genre with convenience there is nothing left for group combat.
Come to the sandbox side. Players will accept other interdependency outside of combat. Removing huge vertical gains in power allows player skill to come more into play. Content also remains difficult forever and can't accessed by more people. Developers are already deleveling players which nearly accomplishes the same thing.
I played a lot of GW1, and ya it really fast tracked you to the very low level cap, but you kept going because.. of reasons. Story, I suppose and the unlocking of skills. It stopped being about a vertical gain and became more about customizing the character and playing the story. That game was pretty good.
I wish some of these developer's would stop trying for WoW 2 and go for something new and fresh to the genre.
There is a mass of mmo players but they won't leave wow to play another mmo no matter what.