Seems solid enough but all this thief stuff will be worthless for players that RP lawful (and I have met a lot of people like that in this game). This really really really needed to include the enforcers vs thieves pvp that was originally promised, as it would have given players on both sides something to do (as well as having been amazing).
With this updated info, I am worried that these new thief activities will be limited to one map... which is just laughable. The extra info has me feeling less hopeful about the content than I was before. This is just going to be "the stealing map" and flooded with players stealthing everywhere and looking completely absurd.
ZOS needs to bring back the promised PvP update to the justice system. The system without it is just not interesting enough.
The system would have never worked. PvPers wouldn't put themselves in a disadvantaged position to be attacked just to provide a target for other PvPers. The PvErs that steal would just stop stealing.
In less than a month Justice PvP would have ended the old Justice system stealing and the new Justice PvP. Both systems would have ended up being unused and the development time put into them would have been wasted.
I think it would have worked brilliantly. The thieves would need to have an escape plan and neither the thieves nor the enforcers able to mount. The megaserver would keep any particular zone from getting too overloaded on enforcers or thieves, as well as keeping player levels balanced. Players that didn't want to pvp would simply be sure to do it when an enforcer wasn't nearby. Enforcers would have to wear the tabard for a minute before being able to engage in pvp, preventing players from just dog-piling on the thieves.
You aren't listening. There is no incentive for PvPers or PvEers. Why would a PvPer voluntarily steal in front of an enforcer? That's like running out into the middle of the PvP zone and yelling attack me. PvPers are either grouped up for a fight or sneaking around looking to jump the very stand-out-in-the-open idiot you're describing. So PvPers won't use it.
PvErs simply wont steal at all because they don't want PvP. Period.
So it would never get used. The enforcers would do their job too well without even lifting a finger and stealing would come to an end.
Right now stealing is not at all interesting. It NEEDS the PvP component to become a decent part of gameplay.
It must be interesting to some because I see plenty of people sneaking around taking things. PCs much smarter and more capable of policing would ruin that. And just like I said, the whole stealing and enforcing thing would end up being unused.
I know we are just making predictions here,
No, actually we're not. You're hoping as a player, and I'm explaining why the devs did what they did. It's over, there is a reason they are not implementing it, they didn't pull it just to tick off customers they pulled it because they could see that it would ruin the justice system already in place and waste justice stealing and the justice PvP's development time.
but there is one thing I think you are dead wrong about - you say Justice sytem PvP would quickly end because players would never steal. Right now if a player is spotted by a guard it is basically GG.
Talk about dead wrong. I get away from guards all the time. distance, interiors, and outlaw refuges. It's a gamble but I can do it. You don't steal or you would know this.
Having another player in place of the guard actually IMPROVES the chances they get away, not to mention being immeasurably more entertaining.
There is NO WAY a PC that would never stop chasing and has all kinds of PvP tricks to play would be EASIER than an NPC guard. That's just flat out wrong. And, it may be more entertaining to PvPers but not PvErs. Looks like ZOS has picked a side to back, and it is not PvP.
The change would only increase justice system participation, there are really no downsides to it for either side.
Increase participation? What are you talking about. ALL of the PvEr would stop stealing. They don't want to PvP they wouldn't have enjoyed the change and they would have stop stealing. THAT is a DROP in participation if you can't figure it out. And, no downsides for either side? Only having your stolen goods removed, and obviously that's the very reason to steal. No to be the rabbit in a PvP chase.
You don't have to worry, though, ZOS apparently decided not to do it. It is a shame, as it would have hands down been the best content in the game.
Hands are down and the professional game designers don't agree with your amateur opinion.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Good things happening on the PvE front. Not going to play this game for PvP until vet ranks are gone. This looks to be a pretty awesome update, I may check it out.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I guess it's ok. It's a new guild with a new questline and i guess alot of sidequests. It sounds smaller than the two previous DLC though, just from the fact that there's no new world, but then maybe there's alot more quests to compensate.
I prefer to be lawful though, so i doubt i'll get this, but maybe if it's cheap or if the reviews are great. If i were to guess a price i would say 1500 crowns. The cheapest DLC so far, but based on what we know now i think it holds less value than the two previous DLC.
Seems solid enough but all this thief stuff will be worthless for players that RP lawful (and I have met a lot of people like that in this game). This really really really needed to include the enforcers vs thieves pvp that was originally promised, as it would have given players on both sides something to do (as well as having been amazing).
With this updated info, I am worried that these new thief activities will be limited to one map... which is just laughable. The extra info has me feeling less hopeful about the content than I was before. This is just going to be "the stealing map" and flooded with players stealthing everywhere and looking completely absurd.
ZOS needs to bring back the promised PvP update to the justice system. The system without it is just not interesting enough.
The system would have never worked. PvPers wouldn't put themselves in a disadvantaged position to be attacked just to provide a target for other PvPers. The PvErs that steal would just stop stealing.
In less than a month Justice PvP would have ended the old Justice system stealing and the new Justice PvP. Both systems would have ended up being unused and the development time put into them would have been wasted.
I think it would have worked brilliantly. The thieves would need to have an escape plan and neither the thieves nor the enforcers able to mount. The megaserver would keep any particular zone from getting too overloaded on enforcers or thieves, as well as keeping player levels balanced. Players that didn't want to pvp would simply be sure to do it when an enforcer wasn't nearby. Enforcers would have to wear the tabard for a minute before being able to engage in pvp, preventing players from just dog-piling on the thieves.
You aren't listening. There is no incentive for PvPers or PvEers. Why would a PvPer voluntarily steal in front of an enforcer? That's like running out into the middle of the PvP zone and yelling attack me. PvPers are either grouped up for a fight or sneaking around looking to jump the very stand-out-in-the-open idiot you're describing. So PvPers won't use it.
PvErs simply wont steal at all because they don't want PvP. Period.
So it would never get used. The enforcers would do their job too well without even lifting a finger and stealing would come to an end.
Right now stealing is not at all interesting. It NEEDS the PvP component to become a decent part of gameplay.
It must be interesting to some because I see plenty of people sneaking around taking things. PCs much smarter and more capable of policing would ruin that. And just like I said, the whole stealing and enforcing thing would end up being unused.
I know we are just making predictions here,
No, actually we're not. You're hoping as a player, and I'm explaining why the devs did what they did. It's over, there is a reason they are not implementing it, they didn't pull it just to tick off customers they pulled it because they could see that it would ruin the justice system already in place and waste justice stealing and the justice PvP's development time.
but there is one thing I think you are dead wrong about - you say Justice sytem PvP would quickly end because players would never steal. Right now if a player is spotted by a guard it is basically GG.
Talk about dead wrong. I get away from guards all the time. distance, interiors, and outlaw refuges. It's a gamble but I can do it. You don't steal or you would know this.
Having another player in place of the guard actually IMPROVES the chances they get away, not to mention being immeasurably more entertaining.
There is NO WAY a PC that would never stop chasing and has all kinds of PvP tricks to play would be EASIER than an NPC guard. That's just flat out wrong. And, it may be more entertaining to PvPers but not PvErs. Looks like ZOS has picked a side to back, and it is not PvP.
The change would only increase justice system participation, there are really no downsides to it for either side.
Increase participation? What are you talking about. ALL of the PvEr would stop stealing. They don't want to PvP they wouldn't have enjoyed the change and they would have stop stealing. THAT is a DROP in participation if you can't figure it out. And, no downsides for either side? Only having your stolen goods removed, and obviously that's the very reason to steal. No to be the rabbit in a PvP chase.
You don't have to worry, though, ZOS apparently decided not to do it. It is a shame, as it would have hands down been the best content in the game.
Hands are down and the professional game designers don't agree with your amateur opinion.
As a pve player that loves to steal stuff I have to agree here...having enforcers up my arse would just kill thieving for me as I am not interested at all in pvp.
I don't agree with all the changes ZOS make all of the time I have to indeed say they're making the right call on this one.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
FacelessSavior said:
Well. Once again it sounds like Zenimax promised big and is delivering small. One zone where criminal acts matter eh? Of course the first thing to get cut was the pvp aspects. I remember when they touted ESO as "The" definitive Pvp experience of MMO's. Now they barely even support it.
I know right? Cause remember all those times in Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim that we had those epic pvp battles. I mean, I for one am completely shocked they moved away from the core aspect of the classics to make a game about story line, character progression and an immersive world. Crazy whats happening to games these days.
Well. Once again it sounds like Zenimax promised big and is delivering small. One zone where criminal acts matter eh? Of course the first thing to get cut was the pvp aspects. I remember when they touted ESO as "The" definitive Pvp experience of MMO's. Now they barely even support it.
I know right? Cause remember all those times in Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim that we had those epic pvp battles. I mean, I for one am completely shocked they moved away from the core aspect of the classics to make a game about story line, character progression and an immersive world. Crazy whats happening to games these days.
Sure guys. We can all just turn on the selective memory and erase where the devs said they were fans of Daoc and wanted to recreate that experience. That you could get to the level req. For Cyrodill and you'd never have to leave if you didn't want To. A game world in itself.
I wouldn't have expected it, and them to show some effort in supporting it, if they hadn't promised it over and over. The game is nothing like Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls in anything but lore. [mod edit]
You aren't listening. There is no incentive for PvPers or PvEers. Why would a PvPer voluntarily steal in front of an enforcer? That's like running out into the middle of the PvP zone and yelling attack me. PvPers are either grouped up for a fight or sneaking around looking to jump the very stand-out-in-the-open idiot you're describing. So PvPers won't use it.
PvErs simply wont steal at all because they don't want PvP. Period.
So it would never get used. The enforcers would do their job too well without even lifting a finger and stealing would come to an end.
Right now stealing is not at all interesting. It NEEDS the PvP component to become a decent part of gameplay.
It must be interesting to some because I see plenty of people sneaking around taking things. PCs much smarter and more capable of policing would ruin that. And just like I said, the whole stealing and enforcing thing would end up being unused.
I know we are just making predictions here,
No, actually we're not. You're hoping as a player, and I'm explaining why the devs did what they did. It's over, there is a reason they are not implementing it, they didn't pull it just to tick off customers they pulled it because they could see that it would ruin the justice system already in place and waste justice stealing and the justice PvP's development time.
but there is one thing I think you are dead wrong about - you say Justice sytem PvP would quickly end because players would never steal. Right now if a player is spotted by a guard it is basically GG.
Talk about dead wrong. I get away from guards all the time. distance, interiors, and outlaw refuges. It's a gamble but I can do it. [mod edit]
Having another player in place of the guard actually IMPROVES the chances they get away, not to mention being immeasurably more entertaining.
There is NO WAY a PC that would never stop chasing and has all kinds of PvP tricks to play would be EASIER than an NPC guard. That's just flat out wrong. And, it may be more entertaining to PvPers but not PvErs. Looks like ZOS has picked a side to back, and it is not PvP.
The change would only increase justice system participation, there are really no downsides to it for either side.
Increase participation? What are you talking about. ALL of the PvEr would stop stealing. They don't want to PvP they wouldn't have enjoyed the change and they would have stop stealing. THAT is a DROP in participation if you can't figure it out. And, no downsides for either side? Only having your stolen goods removed, and obviously that's the very reason to steal. No to be the rabbit in a PvP chase.
You don't have to worry, though, ZOS apparently decided not to do it. It is a shame, as it would have hands down been the best content in the game.
Hands are down and the professional game designers don't agree with your amateur opinion.
[mod edit]
Otherwise you would know that a guards charge immobilizes you and has UNLIMITED RANGE. It is FAR harder to escape a guard than a player. This one point alone makes everything else you said completely irrelevant. If you are using rapid maneuver and spamming dodge roll to get to the edge of the city, you can STILL DO THAT if you are fleeing a player instead of a guard. The player will have even LESS chance to catch you as they won't have unlimited range abilities to make up the difference.
You would also have been aware that you do not become wanted by the guards unless witnessed by an NPC.
If you don't feel like clicking the link, it currently sits at 77% of players wanting the promised PvP Justice system to be implemented, the poll was started 11 days ago.
Like I said before, this would increase participation by making it easier (I seriously can't believe you suggested players are tougher than guards, one has unlimited range, insane damage, and can't be killed - the other is a regular player), and by allowing non thieves to play. There is no "incentive" problem as people are already stealing (and escaping) right now with the crazy overpowered guards hunting them. You say a player would not stop chasing them as if the enforcers wouldn't be limited to pvp in cities the same way guards are now. Thieves that are not witnessed stealing by npcs will still not be flagged for PvP, so good PvE thieves will still get away the way they always have. Now they will also have more of a chance if they actually are seen.
Otherwise you would know that a guards charge immobilizes you and has UNLIMITED RANGE. It is FAR harder to escape a guard than a player. This one point alone makes everything else you said completely irrelevant. If you are using rapid maneuver and spamming dodge roll to get to the edge of the city, you can STILL DO THAT if you are fleeing a player instead of a guard. The player will have even LESS chance to catch you as they won't have unlimited range abilities to make up the difference.
You would also have been aware that you do not become wanted by the guards unless witnessed by an NPC.
If you don't feel like clicking the link, it currently sits at 77% of players wanting the promised PvP Justice system to be implemented, the poll was started 11 days ago.
Like I said before, this would increase participation by making it easier (I seriously can't believe you suggested players are tougher than guards, one has unlimited range, insane damage, and can't be killed - the other is a regular player), and by allowing non thieves to play. There is no "incentive" problem as people are already stealing (and escaping) right now with the crazy overpowered guards hunting them. You say a player would not stop chasing them as if the enforcers wouldn't be limited to pvp in cities the same way guards are now. Thieves that are not witnessed stealing by npcs will still not be flagged for PvP, so good PvE thieves will still get away the way they always have. Now they will also have more of a chance if they actually are seen.
[mod edit]
I get away all the time. If you find it so hard, maybe its your lack of skill and not the game.
Sorry, but the professional game designers have spoken, and the justice PvP is out so there must have been something wrong with it no matter how much an amateur that has never been on a game design team in his life like you wishes it weren't broken and in the game.
[mod edit]
Post edited by Amana on
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Heck I would just like to be able to fight back against the guards, with a chance to win. I know this is a MMO and all, but it would be nice to fight back kind of like Skyrim. Guards should be a tough fight, but beatable.
Hey if you disagree with it go talk with them, don't be mad about the poll. The point is that there are tons of ways to implement the PvP part of the justice system that do not hurt anybody, and that the system would be a lot of fun for the majority of people.
None of it really matters since they decided not to do it. They said they were worried about creating game breaking situations, but I'd bet it has just as much if not more to do with not wanting to spend development time on something they can't sell as DLC.
Hey if you disagree with it go talk with them, don't be mad about the poll. The point is that there are tons of ways to implement the PvP part of the justice system that do not hurt anybody, and that the system would be a lot of fun for the majority of people.
None of it really matters since they decided not to do it. They said they were worried about creating game breaking situations, but I'd bet it has just as much if not more to do with not wanting to spend development time on something they can't sell as DLC.
They have most likely spent a lot more time than us, considering the implications.
Personally I wish the whole world was open from level one on and they had a pve megaserver with PvP only in Cyrodiil and a pvp megaserver with PvP everywhere.
The point is that there are tons of ways to implement the PvP part of the justice system that do not hurt anybody
Yet, you offer no suggestions. If you had so many, or there truly were so many you would offer some here in the thread to support your argument. Yet, you offer... none.
and that the system would be a lot of fun for the majority of people.
What majority? Where are your numbers? Do you have access to the same play style metrics the ZOS team do? Do you have 1/10th the resources they have in gathering that data? Are you operating on anything more than conjecture, emotion, and anecdote?
None of it really matters since they decided not to do it. They said they were worried about creating game breaking situations, but I'd bet it has just as much if not more to do with not wanting to spend development time on something they can't sell as DLC.
They have two stealing and assassination themed DLCs upcoming. It could have easily fit in either if they thought it actually could have worked. So, if they say it's because they are worried about game breaking situations, then it's probably because they are worried about game breaking situations. Only liars think everyone lies.
Maybe they see CU as a more accurate DAoC successor and are making design decisions based on that. Maybe their internal metrics show that wouldn't be a popular decision because that's not how their pve players play. In theory it does sound nice. In practice it would be sucking gankfest.
This is it, exactly. They see two new big name PvP focused MMOs coming soon and have decided on what they have over them; A fully realized and developed game world that has been going strong since the last millennium. A world that up until now has had NO PvP. Maybe they see all the PvPers doing what they always do and moving on to the next new thing, and the PvErs who only want to explore and adventure in Elder Scrolls sticking around.
It only makes sense to focus on them and let the PvPers move on.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
lol you people are funny like Zenimax hasnt already made so many poor decisions in the past they later went back on and retracted and still do to this day with just the vet ranks alone. All this shows some of us is why we left this game to begin with. This company is clueless on what direction it wants to swing patch to patch. Also all this is , is a patch nothing that hasnt been any different than the first major releases to the game before it went buy to play and the fact people rave about the amount of content you get for 25 bucks is funny at best here. This is by far the most fickle company Ive ever seen running a mmorpg. They change every month and what they promise, deliver, and the direction they take their game.
I posted my evidence already, you just want a flame war. I also wrote how I think it should work and provided a link with pages of other ideas. At this point you need to bring out anything showing the majority wants it to stay the same, or butt out. I am not going to have a childish name calling contest with you, and I am getting really sick of you ignoring what I wrote and then lying about it. Have a civil discussion like everyone else.
I posted my evidence already, you just want a flame war. I also wrote how I think it should work and provided a link with pages of other ideas. At this point you need to bring out anything showing the majority wants it to stay the same, or butt out. I am not going to have a childish name calling contest with you, and I am getting really sick of you ignoring what I wrote and then lying about it. Have a civil discussion like everyone else.
A poll of less than 500 people out of thousands is only proof that not many people want PvP Justice.
I've ignored nothing you've written, replied to it all. To the point of getting into the html so I could address each statement individually. I've also not lied, just countered your feelings with obvious logic. That might seem like a lie to you, but that's just your feelings talking.
Game designers don't pull nearly finished content just to piss off their customers. That you can't realize this simple and obvious fact, means you're just too emotional to discuss this rationally.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
You told me to provide evidence after I already provided the only link anybody has offered - an incredible recent one too. I corrected you on game mechanics and wrote an entire post about how the pvp system could work.
You called me a liar, told me I hadn't provided evidence, and told me I had provided no ideas. You aren't here to talk or have a debate, you are just here to be negative.
I posted my evidence already, you just want a flame war. I also wrote how I think it should work and provided a link with pages of other ideas. At this point you need to bring out anything showing the majority wants it to stay the same, or butt out. I am not going to have a childish name calling contest with you, and I am getting really sick of you ignoring what I wrote and then lying about it. Have a civil discussion like everyone else.
All the suggestions to "make this work" have centered around how to make pve players feel "okay" about playing pvp. The suggestions here and on the forums are about how to make the best rewards gated behind pvp, put pve players in as gank fodder, and bring open pvp to pve land.
I seriously hope ZOS never implements this, or if they do they split the megaserver into pvp and pve like @laserit suggested.
The split is an interesting suggestion. Some of the other suggestions on the thread I linked were recommending limiting it to certain cities or making it opt in (you decide whether to deal with guards or players).
Whatever game Zenimax would have liked to have made the fact of the matter is that the subscription model they launched with didn't perform; we can say this becuse they changed to b2p.
And that changed what they can deliver. Will they ever deliver everything they talked about? Probably not since they need to appeal to a "larger" crowd of people. Mythic did add individual mounts to DAoC though ..... eventually.
But who knows. Maybe once the system is up and running they could expand it so that PvP tagged players - and only PvP tagged players - could steal certain items in a restricted zone "patrolled" by enforcers - who were not allowed to steal but would earn a bounty for a capture. Now to avoid it being trivial maybe you would have to queue and launch an instance when enough thieves and enforcers were waiting. Maybe keep the exact number hidden as well - and blank peoples names to try and stop thieves and enforcers getting together to steal the loot. Or maybe you could do something in IC
In a normal PvE type setup though I agree that it just wouldn't work. IC was probably a big shock to PvE players; this on top would hurt imo.
You told me to provide evidence after I already provided the only link anybody has offered - an incredible recent one too.
A link? So what? I've already told you 500 people does not make a good idea. If I find a link that says 500 people want to bring back smallpox, does that mean you would be on-board with the idea? This is you talking about your feelings. Nobody cares about your feelings.
I corrected you on game mechanics and wrote an entire post about how the pvp system could work.
You haven't corrected anything. The only thing you've said about the system is you lack the ability to get away from NPC guards when it's as easy as jumping over a wall they have to path around.
You called me a liar
I said you haven't stolen anything. And if you can't get away from NPC guards I can see why. If you take that as an accusation of lying maybe your conscience is bothering you?
told me I hadn't provided evidence
You haven't.
and told me I had provided no ideas.
Telling the PvE half of the game, "Come on you'll like being a target." isn't an idea. It's just you wanting someone to gank.
You aren't here to talk or have a debate, you are just here to be negative.
No, I just prefer debating the facts with logic. You prefer sharing your feelings about what you want.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
You told me to provide evidence after I already provided the only link anybody has offered - an incredible recent one too.
A link? So what? I've already told you 500 people does not make a good idea. If I find a link that says 500 people want to bring back smallpox, does that mean you would be on-board with the idea? This is you talking about your feelings. Nobody cares about your feelings.
I corrected you on game mechanics and wrote an entire post about how the pvp system could work.
You haven't corrected anything. The only thing you've said about the system is you lack the ability to get away from NPC guards when it's as easy as jumping over a wall they have to path around.
You called me a liar
I said you haven't stolen anything. And if you can't get away from NPC guards I can see why. If you take that as an accusation of lying maybe your conscience is bothering you?
told me I hadn't provided evidence
You haven't.
and told me I had provided no ideas.
Telling the PvE half of the game, "Come on you'll like being a target." isn't an idea. It's just you wanting someone to gank.
You aren't here to talk or have a debate, you are just here to be negative.
No, I just prefer debating the facts with logic. You prefer sharing your feelings about what you want.
You seem to think saying something makes it true, as if other people haven't experienced the game or been able to read what I wrote. You said I didn't provide evidence so I didn't. You said guards are easier to escape than players so they are. You said I suck at the game so my opinion must be wrong. You said that you are providing logic and facts and I am only providing feelings, so it must be so. You say I just want to gank people, so I must have said so. You said I am just trying to convince PvE players they are targets, so it must be true. You said the majority want the game to stay the same, so they must all want what you do.
You do not seem to understand how a discussion or debate works. Misrepresenting the opposing view is a fallacy everyone is aware of, and it seems you are quite aware you are doing it as you cut out parts of my quotes to try and support yourself. Not sure who you think you are fooling.
I tried to talk to you about your argument - that there is no incentive for players to steal, and that players are harder to escape than guards. I already explained to you that guards have an unlimited range immobilize/charge (something you were unaware of?), and that anything you do to avoid a guard will be even more effective for avoiding players. We all saw your inappropriate reaction to that.
Your continued defense has just been to fling insults and call everything you dislike (including the poll) 'just feelings.'
You don't want to discuss or debate anything, so we are done here.
Zenimax's server set up needs to change as their consumer base is too diverse. Look at the other MMO's. There's a reason why their set-up works. Dedicated pvp servers etc.
You told me to provide evidence after I already provided the only link anybody has offered - an incredible recent one too.
A link? So what? I've already told you 500 people does not make a good idea. If I find a link that says 500 people want to bring back smallpox, does that mean you would be on-board with the idea? This is you talking about your feelings. Nobody cares about your feelings.
I corrected you on game mechanics and wrote an entire post about how the pvp system could work.
You haven't corrected anything. The only thing you've said about the system is you lack the ability to get away from NPC guards when it's as easy as jumping over a wall they have to path around.
You called me a liar
I said you haven't stolen anything. And if you can't get away from NPC guards I can see why. If you take that as an accusation of lying maybe your conscience is bothering you?
told me I hadn't provided evidence
You haven't.
and told me I had provided no ideas.
Telling the PvE half of the game, "Come on you'll like being a target." isn't an idea. It's just you wanting someone to gank.
You aren't here to talk or have a debate, you are just here to be negative.
No, I just prefer debating the facts with logic. You prefer sharing your feelings about what you want.
I tried to talk to you about your argument - that there is no incentive for players to steal, and that players are harder to escape than guards. I already explained to you that guards have an unlimited range immobilize/charge (something you were unaware of?), and that anything you do to avoid a guard will be even more effective for avoiding players. We all saw your inappropriate reaction to that.
I've re-read this whole thread... When did you address the incentive the PvEr has to steal after Justice PvP is in? Ok, Maybe I missed it, fine... What is the incentive to steal for the PvEr or PvPr after the Justice PvP is put in? What beyond being the target in a PvP chase does it offer? I'll even leave a big space for your answer, please avail yourself of it...
Guards do have a long range for their initial root. But then it has quite a cooldown, and the root does not last forever. I've been caught in it and still have gotten away. Leaping over a wall, knowing what pathing they will choose, getting out of range (yes, there is a range. How about that for not knowing the facts?) It all works to get away. And NONE of those would work for a PC purser. Additionally, you know what IS unlimited? How far a PC will chase you to get his gank.
So there ya go. Answer... because like I said, there is NOTHING from you in this thread that you say is an incentive to steal post-justice PvP or a fact about how Guards are harder than PCs to escape. Bottom line... nothing.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Comments
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I don't agree with all the changes ZOS make all of the time I have to indeed say they're making the right call on this one.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Well. Once again it sounds like Zenimax promised big and is delivering small. One zone where criminal acts matter eh? Of course the first thing to get cut was the pvp aspects. I remember when they touted ESO as "The" definitive Pvp experience of MMO's. Now they barely even support it.
I know right? Cause remember all those times in Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim that we had those epic pvp battles. I mean, I for one am completely shocked they moved away from the core aspect of the classics to make a game about story line, character progression and an immersive world. Crazy whats happening to games these days.
FacelessSavior said:
Well. Once again it sounds like Zenimax promised big and is delivering small. One zone where criminal acts matter eh? Of course the first thing to get cut was the pvp aspects. I remember when they touted ESO as "The" definitive Pvp experience of MMO's. Now they barely even support it.
I know right? Cause remember all those times in Morrowind and Oblivion and Skyrim that we had those epic pvp battles. I mean, I for one am completely shocked they moved away from the core aspect of the classics to make a game about story line, character progression and an immersive world. Crazy whats happening to games these days.
Sure guys. We can all just turn on the selective memory and erase where the devs said they were fans of Daoc and wanted to recreate that experience. That you could get to the level req. For Cyrodill and you'd never have to leave if you didn't want To. A game world in itself.
I wouldn't have expected it, and them to show some effort in supporting it, if they hadn't promised it over and over. The game is nothing like Skyrim or any other Elder Scrolls in anything but lore. [mod edit]
Otherwise you would know that a guards charge immobilizes you and has UNLIMITED RANGE. It is FAR harder to escape a guard than a player. This one point alone makes everything else you said completely irrelevant. If you are using rapid maneuver and spamming dodge roll to get to the edge of the city, you can STILL DO THAT if you are fleeing a player instead of a guard. The player will have even LESS chance to catch you as they won't have unlimited range abilities to make up the difference.
You would also have been aware that you do not become wanted by the guards unless witnessed by an NPC.
[mod edit]
Proof: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/240929/justice-system-pvp-please-explain-exactly-why-you-are-for-against-this-content?
If you don't feel like clicking the link, it currently sits at 77% of players wanting the promised PvP Justice system to be implemented, the poll was started 11 days ago.
Like I said before, this would increase participation by making it easier (I seriously can't believe you suggested players are tougher than guards, one has unlimited range, insane damage, and can't be killed - the other is a regular player), and by allowing non thieves to play. There is no "incentive" problem as people are already stealing (and escaping) right now with the crazy overpowered guards hunting them. You say a player would not stop chasing them as if the enforcers wouldn't be limited to pvp in cities the same way guards are now. Thieves that are not witnessed stealing by npcs will still not be flagged for PvP, so good PvE thieves will still get away the way they always have. Now they will also have more of a chance if they actually are seen.
[mod edit]
Sorry, but the professional game designers have spoken, and the justice PvP is out so there must have been something wrong with it no matter how much an amateur that has never been on a game design team in his life like you wishes it weren't broken and in the game.
[mod edit]
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
None of it really matters since they decided not to do it. They said they were worried about creating game breaking situations, but I'd bet it has just as much if not more to do with not wanting to spend development time on something they can't sell as DLC.
Personally I wish the whole world was open from level one on and they had a pve megaserver with PvP only in Cyrodiil and a pvp megaserver with PvP everywhere.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
What majority? Where are your numbers? Do you have access to the same play style metrics the ZOS team do? Do you have 1/10th the resources they have in gathering that data? Are you operating on anything more than conjecture, emotion, and anecdote? They have two stealing and assassination themed DLCs upcoming. It could have easily fit in either if they thought it actually could have worked. So, if they say it's because they are worried about game breaking situations, then it's probably because they are worried about game breaking situations. Only liars think everyone lies.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I've ignored nothing you've written, replied to it all. To the point of getting into the html so I could address each statement individually. I've also not lied, just countered your feelings with obvious logic. That might seem like a lie to you, but that's just your feelings talking.
Game designers don't pull nearly finished content just to piss off their customers. That you can't realize this simple and obvious fact, means you're just too emotional to discuss this rationally.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
You called me a liar, told me I hadn't provided evidence, and told me I had provided no ideas. You aren't here to talk or have a debate, you are just here to be negative.
And that changed what they can deliver. Will they ever deliver everything they talked about? Probably not since they need to appeal to a "larger" crowd of people. Mythic did add individual mounts to DAoC though ..... eventually.
But who knows. Maybe once the system is up and running they could expand it so that PvP tagged players - and only PvP tagged players - could steal certain items in a restricted zone "patrolled" by enforcers - who were not allowed to steal but would earn a bounty for a capture. Now to avoid it being trivial maybe you would have to queue and launch an instance when enough thieves and enforcers were waiting. Maybe keep the exact number hidden as well - and blank peoples names to try and stop thieves and enforcers getting together to steal the loot. Or maybe you could do something in IC
In a normal PvE type setup though I agree that it just wouldn't work. IC was probably a big shock to PvE players; this on top would hurt imo.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
You seem to think saying something makes it true, as if other people haven't experienced the game or been able to read what I wrote. You said I didn't provide evidence so I didn't. You said guards are easier to escape than players so they are. You said I suck at the game so my opinion must be wrong. You said that you are providing logic and facts and I am only providing feelings, so it must be so. You say I just want to gank people, so I must have said so. You said I am just trying to convince PvE players they are targets, so it must be true. You said the majority want the game to stay the same, so they must all want what you do.
You do not seem to understand how a discussion or debate works. Misrepresenting the opposing view is a fallacy everyone is aware of, and it seems you are quite aware you are doing it as you cut out parts of my quotes to try and support yourself. Not sure who you think you are fooling.
I tried to talk to you about your argument - that there is no incentive for players to steal, and that players are harder to escape than guards. I already explained to you that guards have an unlimited range immobilize/charge (something you were unaware of?), and that anything you do to avoid a guard will be even more effective for avoiding players. We all saw your inappropriate reaction to that.
Your continued defense has just been to fling insults and call everything you dislike (including the poll) 'just feelings.'
You don't want to discuss or debate anything, so we are done here.
Guards do have a long range for their initial root. But then it has quite a cooldown, and the root does not last forever. I've been caught in it and still have gotten away. Leaping over a wall, knowing what pathing they will choose, getting out of range (yes, there is a range. How about that for not knowing the facts?) It all works to get away. And NONE of those would work for a PC purser. Additionally, you know what IS unlimited? How far a PC will chase you to get his gank.
So there ya go. Answer... because like I said, there is NOTHING from you in this thread that you say is an incentive to steal post-justice PvP or a fact about how Guards are harder than PCs to escape. Bottom line... nothing.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.