Daar said:
I have a feeling BDO will be more or less the same as B&S
BDO is more on par with the old pearl named Lineage 2.
Many similarities when it comes to pvp / sieges / grinding but with alot of depth in the pve department like trading with npc's / crafting / hunting / horse taming / farming etc etc.
I cant stand themeparks myself anymore sadly :(
bdo tough could be realy fun to play if Daum keeps the P2W at bay thus far our client seems to be shaping up quite nice but so did Archeage before Trino pulled out the ultimate troll card No Tricks No Traps :P
I don't quite understand the shallow comment. I'm doing the same stuff I do in every themepark i.e. level up, PVP, instances, crafting, gathering, playing auction house wars, etc. I don't know why you think it's shallow being that it more or less follows the modern MMO "formula."
Hey Bill, I value your opinion on MMORPG's. The current state of game reviews and play-throughs on Twitch and YouTube is slightly nauseating, and I find I can't really stomach them for the most part. I still don't understand why people want to watch someone else's face while they play a game, that to me is just weird. The cult of personality I suppose... or maybe I am just getting old.
I played this game before it launched in NA, with a really loose English patch. I found it got old quickly, and left me questioning whether I should continue leveling or not. The answer was "not" in the end. I have installed the NA version, and started a toon, but the starting areas/quest line are killing it for me, and I don't think I can continue lol (I generally hate leveling, but have leveled multiple toons in games like Neverwinter, WoW, Tera). Also I'm not a fan of Wuxia, which I think you have to be to really love this game.
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
Level 20 is enough time to see what the game offers. You have access to pretty much everything at 20 that you do at 45, but that said, getting to level 20 takes about three or four hours.
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
Level 20 is enough time to see what the game offers. You have access to pretty much everything at 20 that you do at 45, but that said, getting to level 20 takes about three or four hours.
So you're going to be happy when the Black Desert Online review comes out and every review has the dude level to 15-20 which also takes about 4-5 hours and then says they've seen what the game offers? Give me a break, these games are built in a way that are teaching game mechanics through level 20, and end game content doesn't even start till 40+. The same goes for WoW, GW2, ESO, FFXIV, those games may offer different ways to level but that doesn't mean there isn't the same amount of content at end game as BnS or any other.
These are the types of players that stay half of max level for life. Then complain because there wasn't enough to do, all while never getting to the levels which have things to do. For Black Desert Online for example the game really doesn't start till max level as well because you can keep earning exp after cap. Before that all you're doing is earning items you'll use at end game ect.
BillMurphy said:
I can get behind that. The UI would be the big hurdle.
Look, I'm not saying that all MMOs need to have a million and one different features and things to do. My point is that beyond its admittedly wonderful combat, Blade & Soul is shallow. That doesn't mean it's bad... just lacking depth.
I'm reminded of a WoW dev that came out talking about how unrealistic it is to compare brand new games to older games like WoW. The gist of the comment was basically "If we released WoW today (with a game like current WoW already out) people would laugh and never play" (because the initial content was nothing like what's available now (pet battles, archeology, pvp arenas, battlegrounds, etc etc).
Now BnS isn't a new game, but as a general comment, the idea that a game with "just good combat" is shallow makes me wonder if that's really a fair comment. I mean, how much content do people expect new games to have? I tend to think that player expectations are half of the problem. FFXIV, GW2, WoW are the 3 names being thrown around a lot, but these games have 2-4 times the "release" content of BnS (nevermind that the games were initially developed for different audiences).
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
Since I do YouTube videos that only cover early game most of the time, I'll chime in on this.
Early game SHOULD give you a very good perspective on game systems. Combat. Movement. Progression. If it doesn't, that's extremely poor game design. An early game video is going to give you an idea of what to expect in terms of these things.
How long does it take to get to endgame in most MMOs? Probably 15-20 hours of playtime if you're using potions and such? Why on EARTH would you want to play a game for 15-20 hours when you dislike the core game systems?
Watching early game videos is basically doing research to save yourself the time of downloading a game and then playing for a few hours, only to decide you don't like it. Could've watched a five minute video and saved yourself the trouble.
I can see the reviews for Black Desert already, they will go something like this. Well I've played Black Desert till level 20 playing for 5 hours over 2 weeks, I crawled over and under some stuff, earned a horse, a pet, and some other crap, but the game just isn't offering anything else right now at level 20. Guess I've seen it all, the game is pretty shallow and all you can do is earn crap, that you then have to upgrade again in 10 levels. Oh my what is this mmo market coming too!
It definitely has 1 thing that I haven't experienced in awhile in MMOs, and that's the "zone out" quality of the game.
Quests are fast and instant queueing for dungeons means there's really never a stop in the action. Hours fly by while playing this game.
Zoning out is cool for one of the things MMOs are great for- Wasting time.
Also, I'm looking forward to the 1v1 PVP but I'm waiting until max level. From what I can tell it does seem very good with some good twitch skills required. If nothing else, that alone may keep me interested in this game as good 1v1 3rd person pvp is hard to come by.
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
Level 20 is enough time to see what the game offers. You have access to pretty much everything at 20 that you do at 45, but that said, getting to level 20 takes about three or four hours.
So you're going to be happy when the Black Desert Online review comes out and every review has the dude level to 15-20 which also takes about 4-5 hours and then says they've seen what the game offers? Give me a break, these games are built in a way that are teaching game mechanics through level 20, and end game content doesn't even start till 40+. The same goes for WoW, GW2, ESO, FFXIV, those games may offer different ways to level but that doesn't mean there isn't the same amount of content at end game as BnS or any other.
These are the types of players that stay half of max level for life. Then complain because there wasn't enough to do, all while never getting to the levels which have things to do. For Black Desert Online for example the game really doesn't start till max level as well because you can keep earning exp after cap. Before that all you're doing is earning items you'll use at end game ect.
Sure, you get access to new instances and new skills, but the core of the game is accessible at level 25. You can enter arenas, enter instances, quest, craft, etc. Once you ding 45 you're going to be doing arenas, instances, dailies, crafting, etc. Nothing magical happens between 25 and 45. You gain new abilities, access to new zones, and access to new instances. That's it.
I really like B&S and will be playing it for a long time to come, but level 45 isn't a whole lot different than 25 in terms of what you can access.
I enjoy this site and it's content, but the reason I don't watch youtube reviews on games is because they are always level 20 and done reviews. They never give a true representation of the game experience that might be had after level 20. In most games level 20 is considered still a fresh character. Games haven't offered equal content to lower level players since DAoC and early WoW, maybe GW2 also. It's pretty much common knowledge that mmorpgs are end game progression. Until that is no longer the case reviews that only offer a early game leveling perspective really don't mean much.
Level 20 is enough time to see what the game offers. You have access to pretty much everything at 20 that you do at 45, but that said, getting to level 20 takes about three or four hours.
So you're going to be happy when the Black Desert Online review comes out and every review has the dude level to 15-20 which also takes about 4-5 hours and then says they've seen what the game offers? Give me a break, these games are built in a way that are teaching game mechanics through level 20, and end game content doesn't even start till 40+. The same goes for WoW, GW2, ESO, FFXIV, those games may offer different ways to level but that doesn't mean there isn't the same amount of content at end game as BnS or any other.
These are the types of players that stay half of max level for life. Then complain because there wasn't enough to do, all while never getting to the levels which have things to do. For Black Desert Online for example the game really doesn't start till max level as well because you can keep earning exp after cap. Before that all you're doing is earning items you'll use at end game ect.
Sure, you get access to new instances and new skills, but the core of the game is accessible at level 25. You can enter arenas, enter instances, quest, craft, etc. Once you ding 45 you're going to be doing arenas, instances, dailies, crafting, etc. Nothing magical happens between 25 and 45. You gain new abilities, access to new zones, and access to new instances. That's it.
I really like B&S and will be playing it for a long time to come, but level 45 isn't a whole lot different than 25 in terms of what you can access.
It's just the principal of the matter, if reviewers are going to complain about shallow games, stop doing shallow reviews. That's all I'm saying about that.
@TheHiveLeader Don't worry I'm one of the people that do watch "most" of your reviews, I'll admit though it's mostly for your personality and video structure. Not because I find them thorough or highly informational. Your videos are fun, and I'll continue enjoying them however they come.
What part of review in progress are people not understanding.
I just started will probably edit this post after a few more days. I typically hate questing and look more for a virtual world with risk vs reward...but I'm gonna give this a shot.
All this review does is report the obvious. The game play is as intended. It was never meant to be an MMORPG with a lot of depth. Its an action oriented, arcadey type, cutesy lightweight MMORPG. Its main feature is its very enjoyable, and widely praised, combat mechanic. It's the type of game that one can jump into for an hour or more and have a little fun with. If you enjoy the game there is no need to get defensive over this review. Likewise, if you hate the game there is no need to gloat because what the game does, it does very well. The game plays as intended and they make no apologies for that.
Personally, this is exactly the game that I can get into. I don't have the time in a day to spend countless hours in a game. I just like to jump in and have a little lightweight fun. In terms of difficulty and enjoyment, this game for me plays a lot like City of Heroes. Mind you I am not saying it is as fun as CoH, I am simply equating the enjoyable action combat aspects of the game that one can enjoy for short periods of time with the same feeling I used to get while playing CoH. That said, all that really matters is that its fun, and that is the one thing that Bill did not question in his review. I think his review is spot on. If BDO doesn't pull me away, I think BnS will be my go to MMORPG for a while.
@mmrv ; EH you realize it isn't Bill's review? So SBFord said a few good things and bad things. That is what I would like to hear when I read a review. I personally am having a lot of fun leveling different characters and I don't mind the dungeon grind or I simply bypass it by purchasing the items from auction house. No I don't agree with everything in the review but that doesn't mean I can just vomit all over him for it. This isn't some million dollar paid reviewer here. And if you are capable of doing such a good job then this website has review forums for every game so give it a shot there MR Journalism.
Not half bad game, but its optimized terribly. Not playing anymore because it runs like shit.
Pretty sure that's on your end. I've never had an MMO look this good and run this well on my pretty crappy computer. I'd suggest fiddling with the settings and looking up ways to optimize the game.
I've been known for my erhm...outspokenness against themeparks on rails since they started appearing on the market back just after WoW was released. With that said, B&S is exactly what it is, a themepark on rails MMORPG - nothing more, nothing less. It's not trying to be anything but what the designers set out to make. And you know what - the did an awesome job at making this game fit perfectly into this category of MMO's.
Hell the game doesn't even have a weather system, or night and day cycle. It requires no real crafting(though it does become important later on - and doesn't take much time to master). It is what it is - a themepark on rails.
Here's the thing though, this game puts other themeparks to shame. It is fun to play! I loathe themeparks...I really do not like them. They are repetitive and lack any kind of depth whatsoever. For some reason though, I find myself loving this game...I absolutely love it.
From the main story that has lots of epic moments "of too much feels" to the silly little side quest(that number in the - frakking lots!). The interlaced puzzles that require timing, and player skill to figure out, to the combat system that is layered in levels of mastery. Easy to learn, hard to master(seriously, the combat system is the single best combat system I have come across in an MMORPG).
I'm working on my own review of the game and will be posting it after I hit level 45(my current main character is just a couple of levels short of 45). I have played all the classes, but I am currently keeping my Summoner and Force Master. I'll explain in my review my take of the different classes.
Is it the best MMORPG ever...not even close. But for me, it sure beats the hell out of some of the other MMORPG's currently on the market, because the parts(which are many) that they get right - makes up for all that is wrong.
@mmrv Whew... you're an angry little person, aren't you?
He is angry but he is right. I tried B&S, leveled up till 30 and quit. It is just not for me. But when I look this review, I can see why he is angry this much. This review looks like, he was busy and didn't want to play B&S. But just for the reviews sake he played the game for couple hours and then came here to write bunch of stuff. That's it. This is not a proper review.
And sorry but when I saw Bill's comment which he compared B&S with ESO, FFXIV, GW2, I laughed my ass off. That post is just pure nonesense sorry...
Comments
I have a feeling BDO will be more or less the same as B&S
BDO is more on par with the old pearl named Lineage 2.
Many similarities when it comes to pvp / sieges / grinding but with alot of depth in the pve department like trading with npc's / crafting / hunting / horse taming / farming etc etc.
I cant stand themeparks myself anymore sadly :(
bdo tough could be realy fun to play if Daum keeps the P2W at bay thus far our client seems to be shaping up quite nice but so did Archeage before Trino pulled out the ultimate troll card No Tricks No Traps :P
I played this game before it launched in NA, with a really loose English patch. I found it got old quickly, and left me questioning whether I should continue leveling or not. The answer was "not" in the end. I have installed the NA version, and started a toon, but the starting areas/quest line are killing it for me, and I don't think I can continue lol (I generally hate leveling, but have leveled multiple toons in games like Neverwinter, WoW, Tera). Also I'm not a fan of Wuxia, which I think you have to be to really love this game.
I'll second what heerobya just said.
I'll second the second.
These are the types of players that stay half of max level for life. Then complain because there wasn't enough to do, all while never getting to the levels which have things to do. For Black Desert Online for example the game really doesn't start till max level as well because you can keep earning exp after cap. Before that all you're doing is earning items you'll use at end game ect.
I can get behind that. The UI would be the big hurdle.
Look, I'm not saying that all MMOs need to have a million and one different features and things to do. My point is that beyond its admittedly wonderful combat, Blade & Soul is shallow. That doesn't mean it's bad... just lacking depth.
I'm reminded of a WoW dev that came out talking about how unrealistic it is to compare brand new games to older games like WoW. The gist of the comment was basically "If we released WoW today (with a game like current WoW already out) people would laugh and never play" (because the initial content was nothing like what's available now (pet battles, archeology, pvp arenas, battlegrounds, etc etc).
Now BnS isn't a new game, but as a general comment, the idea that a game with "just good combat" is shallow makes me wonder if that's really a fair comment. I mean, how much content do people expect new games to have? I tend to think that player expectations are half of the problem. FFXIV, GW2, WoW are the 3 names being thrown around a lot, but these games have 2-4 times the "release" content of BnS (nevermind that the games were initially developed for different audiences).
Early game SHOULD give you a very good perspective on game systems. Combat. Movement. Progression. If it doesn't, that's extremely poor game design. An early game video is going to give you an idea of what to expect in terms of these things.
How long does it take to get to endgame in most MMOs? Probably 15-20 hours of playtime if you're using potions and such? Why on EARTH would you want to play a game for 15-20 hours when you dislike the core game systems?
Watching early game videos is basically doing research to save yourself the time of downloading a game and then playing for a few hours, only to decide you don't like it. Could've watched a five minute video and saved yourself the trouble.
View more silliness at http://www.youtube.com/thehiveleader
Quests are fast and instant queueing for dungeons means there's really never a stop in the action. Hours fly by while playing this game.
Zoning out is cool for one of the things MMOs are great for- Wasting time.
Also, I'm looking forward to the 1v1 PVP but I'm waiting until max level. From what I can tell it does seem very good with some good twitch skills required. If nothing else, that alone may keep me interested in this game as good 1v1 3rd person pvp is hard to come by.
I really like B&S and will be playing it for a long time to come, but level 45 isn't a whole lot different than 25 in terms of what you can access.
@TheHiveLeader Don't worry I'm one of the people that do watch "most" of your reviews, I'll admit though it's mostly for your personality and video structure. Not because I find them thorough or highly informational. Your videos are fun, and I'll continue enjoying them however they come.
I just started will probably edit this post after a few more days. I typically hate questing and look more for a virtual world with risk vs reward...but I'm gonna give this a shot.
All this review does is report the obvious. The game play is as intended. It was never meant to be an MMORPG with a lot of depth. Its an action oriented, arcadey type, cutesy lightweight MMORPG. Its main feature is its very enjoyable, and widely praised, combat mechanic. It's the type of game that one can jump into for an hour or more and have a little fun with. If you enjoy the game there is no need to get defensive over this review. Likewise, if you hate the game there is no need to gloat because what the game does, it does very well. The game plays as intended and they make no apologies for that.
Personally, this is exactly the game that I can get into. I don't have the time in a day to spend countless hours in a game. I just like to jump in and have a little lightweight fun. In terms of difficulty and enjoyment, this game for me plays a lot like City of Heroes. Mind you I am not saying it is as fun as CoH, I am simply equating the enjoyable action combat aspects of the game that one can enjoy for short periods of time with the same feeling I used to get while playing CoH. That said, all that really matters is that its fun, and that is the one thing that Bill did not question in his review. I think his review is spot on. If BDO doesn't pull me away, I think BnS will be my go to MMORPG for a while.
@mmrv Whew... you're an angry little person, aren't you?
I mean, RIGHT? Dude needs to chill - I'm embarrassed for him.
That's bound to leave a bad taste in your mouth and besides, it's not at all the same experience most players would have with the game.
Pretty sure that's on your end. I've never had an MMO look this good and run this well on my pretty crappy computer. I'd suggest fiddling with the settings and looking up ways to optimize the game.
I've been known for my erhm...outspokenness against themeparks on rails since they started appearing on the market back just after WoW was released. With that said, B&S is exactly what it is, a themepark on rails MMORPG - nothing more, nothing less. It's not trying to be anything but what the designers set out to make. And you know what - the did an awesome job at making this game fit perfectly into this category of MMO's.
Hell the game doesn't even have a weather system, or night and day cycle. It requires no real crafting(though it does become important later on - and doesn't take much time to master). It is what it is - a themepark on rails.
Here's the thing though, this game puts other themeparks to shame. It is fun to play! I loathe themeparks...I really do not like them. They are repetitive and lack any kind of depth whatsoever. For some reason though, I find myself loving this game...I absolutely love it.
From the main story that has lots of epic moments "of too much feels" to the silly little side quest(that number in the - frakking lots!). The interlaced puzzles that require timing, and player skill to figure out, to the combat system that is layered in levels of mastery. Easy to learn, hard to master(seriously, the combat system is the single best combat system I have come across in an MMORPG).
I'm working on my own review of the game and will be posting it after I hit level 45(my current main character is just a couple of levels short of 45). I have played all the classes, but I am currently keeping my Summoner and Force Master. I'll explain in my review my take of the different classes.
Is it the best MMORPG ever...not even close. But for me, it sure beats the hell out of some of the other MMORPG's currently on the market, because the parts(which are many) that they get right - makes up for all that is wrong.
He is angry but he is right. I tried B&S, leveled up till 30 and quit. It is just not for me. But when I look this review, I can see why he is angry this much. This review looks like, he was busy and didn't want to play B&S. But just for the reviews sake he played the game for couple hours and then came here to write bunch of stuff. That's it. This is not a proper review.
And sorry but when I saw Bill's comment which he compared B&S with ESO, FFXIV, GW2, I laughed my ass off. That post is just pure nonesense sorry...