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Ant Simulator - The Sad Tale of Wine, Woman & (Maybe?) Song -

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited February 2016 in News & Features Discussion

imageAnt Simulator - The Sad Tale of Wine, Woman & (Maybe?) Song -

While not precisely MMO or RPG related, mismanagement of funds raised through crowd-sourcing is a hot topic. In one of the more inglorious tales of epic malfeasance, Ant Simulator is now dead in the water due to two of three company founders using money raised for restaurants, alcohol and exotic dancers.

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • RoinRoin Member RarePosts: 3,444
    Guy sounds like he is barely keeping it together in the video. I feel sorry for him.

    In War - Victory.
    In Peace - Vigilance.
    In Death - Sacrifice.

  • dodsfalldodsfall Member UncommonPosts: 173
    What amazes me is there is no liability or accountability in these crowd-funded enterprises. It happens time and again where the people collecting the funds to build games decide to finance lavish lifestyles instead.
  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,854
    Poor guy, it doesn't sound like he will, be I'd really like for him to sue his ex-partners.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    dodsfall said:
    What amazes me is there is no liability or accountability in these crowd-funded enterprises. It happens time and again where the people collecting the funds to build games decide to finance lavish lifestyles instead.
    kind of like AIG expect that for AIG there is accountablity but it causes a global economic disaster first

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,751
    edited February 2016
    It does call for a good song though.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    edited February 2016
    What a mess. He could probably sue them for sole rights to the IP and reparations but I doubt he can afford to.
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited February 2016

    dodsfall said:

    What amazes me is there is no liability or accountability in these crowd-funded enterprises. It happens time and again where the people collecting the funds to build games decide to finance lavish lifestyles instead.



    That's why Derek Smart exists...to hold the video game industry accountable! (disclaimer: may or may not only apply to a single game which Derek considers direct competition).

    Kidding aside, I agree Kickstarter is highly flawed as currently structured; no accountability for funded projects nor any legal responsibility from Kickstarter (and yet they always take their 10%).

    However, Kickstarter is a form of patronage not a 'store'. With liability and accountability implemented, the root of Kickstarter's model is destroyed (the concept and purpose is a double-edged sword).

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Now this is why you always seek legal counsel before you sign away the rights to your idea to a bunch of fratboys. Or at least put in some clause to guard your self from this sort of thing.

    But let us at least be happy for him that his so called partners where more interested in covering their own arses short term than really put the squeese on him. All in all he came away fairly well.

    But yeah... He got funked over for real. Front to back and twice on sundays. But as he says, they did good enough to cover their own arses, and by the time he actually sought legal counsel it was to late. So always spend that little extra before you sign a contract.

    This have been a good conversation

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    It is impossible to go through life without trusting someone at some point, let alone people you've known for eleven years.  The betrayal is more heartbreaking to me than the finances.  I hope this leads to some wonderful opportunities for him down the road that will help make up for such despicable friends and business partners.  Of course, you know the old saying....never do business with friends.....

    image
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    It takes a special kind of person to know who to trust and that comes with age and experience dealing with a million people over your life time.

    Part of the problem was he associated himself with drunks,hence why they also made such a game.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • tannim78tannim78 Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Reason why I refuse to do crowd funding....
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    was Smed at the parties?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981
    Thing is, how many game projects are actually kickstarter funded. Yet we are seeing over and over again project fail for one reason or another ( and many of them as shocking as this one ) I would say that less than 20% funded projects actually get released in a way that is close to what was promised.

    I think it only shows that "no strings attached" business model does not work.

    If a developer does not have any responsibility for the money, what stops him for quitting when a project hits a "hurdle" ? Or even why not just take the money and not develop the game ?



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Lobotomist said:
    Thing is, how many game projects are actually kickstarter funded. Yet we are seeing over and over again project fail for one reason or another ( and many of them as shocking as this one ) I would say that less than 20% funded projects actually get released in a way that is close to what was promised.

    I think it only shows that "no strings attached" business model does not work.

    If a developer does not have any responsibility for the money, what stops him for quitting when a project hits a "hurdle" ? Or even why not just take the money and not develop the game ?
    depends on how you look at the numbers.

    If you as a consumer gets 12 great games a year from non-KS/Early Access models but you get 24 great games from KS/Early Access do you as a consumer come out ahead or behind?

    That is providing of course you have a consumer IQ over the number of 1

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    SEANMCAD said:
    Lobotomist said:
    Thing is, how many game projects are actually kickstarter funded. Yet we are seeing over and over again project fail for one reason or another ( and many of them as shocking as this one ) I would say that less than 20% funded projects actually get released in a way that is close to what was promised.

    I think it only shows that "no strings attached" business model does not work.

    If a developer does not have any responsibility for the money, what stops him for quitting when a project hits a "hurdle" ? Or even why not just take the money and not develop the game ?
    depends on how you look at the numbers.

    If you as a consumer gets 12 great games a year from non-KS/Early Access models but you get 24 great games from KS/Early Access do you as a consumer come out ahead or behind?

    That is providing of course you have a consumer IQ over the number of 1
    Considering the high failure rate of Kickstarter games, and if you've contributed towards the KS of a dozen or more games, you're lucky if more than 50% actually even make it to early release.

    So in terms of numbers, KS has certainly done that for early access for games to purchase.  But, that's as a consumer on Steam and not as a KS contributor. As a percentage, I don't know anyone who has contributed to 6-8+ without seeing 2-3 of those games cancelled or failing to release.

    So being a 'consumer' of early access is great; being a KS contributor to games in concept stage hasn't been (you generally come out behind).
  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 299
    He has to comply by NOTHING. They are the ones (at least according to him), who misappropriated funds, thereby breaking legal code of the contract. However, who knows if what he says is true or not. Maybe just trying to save his neck. People... STOP FUNDING THESE CROOKS!!!! If you are in such a hurry to give away your money....give it to me.
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    bentrim said:
    He has to comply by NOTHING. They are the ones (at least according to him), who misappropriated funds, thereby breaking legal code of the contract. However, who knows if what he says is true or not. Maybe just trying to save his neck. People... STOP FUNDING THESE CROOKS!!!! If you are in such a hurry to give away your money....give it to me.
    Agreed and give it to me as well.  Maybe we could launch a KS together and say 'we have zero actual game development experience nor even ever talked to each other, but our game is going to be fucking amazing!  Give us your money!'.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227

    "It is impossible to go through life without trusting someone at some point, let alone people you've known for eleven years."

    That might be true, but it is not hard to have a impartial legal representative give all the papers a once over. That is just common sense when starting a venture together.. or stuff like this happens.

    As for him not having to comply with anything... That is not how reality works. If they got him to sign a contract that said they where to be paid no matter what they did and gave them the right to use company funds for representation and consultation (his *"friends" had them self hired as consultants) without specifying how that should be done... He´s borked. It would be a long and costly affair that he would most likely lose. Next stop would be financial colpas of the private sort... Not fun.

    This have been a good conversation

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    SlothnChunk said:

    dodsfall said:

    What amazes me is there is no liability or accountability in these crowd-funded enterprises. It happens time and again where the people collecting the funds to build games decide to finance lavish lifestyles instead.



    That's why Derek Smart exists...to hold the video game industry accountable! (disclaimer: may or may not only apply to a single game which Derek considers direct competition).

    Kidding aside, I agree Kickstarter is highly flawed as currently structured; no accountability for funded projects nor any legal responsibility from Kickstarter (and yet they always take their 10%).

    However, Kickstarter is a form of patronage not a 'store'. With liability and accountability implemented, the root of Kickstarter's model is destroyed (the concept and purpose is a double-edged sword).


    I hate these self appointed advocates. I suspect a lot of them love attention or are somehow using the situation for some other kind of benefits.  Hardly selfless.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    In the end it's just more evidence that a lot of people with kickstarters simply aren't qualified to actually manage the money portion of things.  And there are little to no protections in place to prevent this kind of stuff.
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749
    All seriousness aside ... Anyone else find it amazing that he actually told the truth about the situation? Also, would you have had it any other way?

    Not as entertaining or dramatic as the Greedmonger debacle, but still worth a large chuckle.

    How much money did this game raise in funds, anyways? Can't seem to find the original kickstarter or information on the backing amount.
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    It's good to see these kind of stories here. Otherwise we may not know how and why this kind of thing happens. The LLC, limited liability company, protects the parties from financial responsibilities of the company. Otherwise it wouldn't be safe to attempt these things. But it is the main reason we say "buyer beware."

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • XarkoXarko Member EpicPosts: 1,180
    This is literally why we cant have nice things.
  • IAmMMOIAmMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,462
    edited February 2016
    Ah well; there's still Sim Ant
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,749
    Konfess said:
    It's good to see these kind of stories here. Otherwise we may not know how and why this kind of thing happens. The LLC, limited liability company, protects the parties from financial responsibilities of the company. Otherwise it wouldn't be safe to attempt these things. But it is the main reason we say "buyer beware."
    Embezzling is not the same thing as being held personally responsible for the company going belly up or being sued by a customer.  LLC does not protect you from prosecution for embezzlement. Theft is theft in the eyes of the law.  Granted, they could try to play word games as to what are considered legitimate company expenditures.  A judge or jury most likely would not agree when it comes to paying for pole dancers.  They would also have to prove that the alcohol purchases were for the entertainment of perspective investors and not for personal use.

    image
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