Lore should be about good story telling. They shouldn't have to weaken the Lore just to make a change so utterly unimportant to play to include a gender.
I've said this countless times before... Most of the people who complain about gender lock have no problem playing other races. The fact that they have less difficulty relating to a wholly foreign race than another gender is baffling.
I prefer players to write the story, not the developers and create more interesting characters and story than the *Yawn* Developer scripted nonsense. The way it was when RPGs began...
I don't like playing other races, or genders. I prefer all my characters to look the same. It may be utterly unimportant to YOU, but it is not utterly unimportant to millions of other players. That is why there should be options for players to play how they wish. You can choose to change your character, or you can choose not to. You should not expect to impose your preference upon others though. If there are choices you can still play how you prefer and others will play how they prefer.
Players should be able to create their own characters and their own stories, that is the difference between being a part of the game rather than just being along for the ride. I would prefer a game with no NPC's.. all players, all the books in the game written by players, all the monuments and statues to be of actual players, the wanted posters to be of players.. Of course mmorpgs are still far behind ever coming to that point. Maybe in the future..
Allowing players to at least create their own characters and story would be a good place to start however.
When the developer creates all the characters and stories it feels like the game might as well play itself too. What is the point of playing it?
Please tell me where I was trying to impose my preferences? I simply stated what I think.
What I will say is you shouldn't expect the writer/artist to bend to your will because you have a preference. They created something and presented it. If you like it play it. If you don't then pass. How often do people complain that everything is the same then turn around and complain when X didn't do what Y did? Often. It is leading to homogenization.
To this -> "Players should be able to create their own characters and their own stories, that is the difference between being a part of the game rather than just being along for the ride. I would prefer a game with no NPC's.. all players, all the books in the game written by players, all the monuments and statues to be of actual players, the wanted posters to be of players.. Of course mmorpgs are still far behind ever coming to that point. Maybe in the future.. "
That would be nice but there still needs to be a world full of lore as background and that fictional history shaped the world we arrive in.
Of course I should expect the writer to bend to " players" whims, that is what players pay them for, otherwise, players should just pay someone else to do the job. It is about meeting a demand. If they fail to meet the demand, people just take their business to those that will. Why hire a writer that isn't meeting the demands of your business? What you are suggesting is businesses should just run off the majority of players, since the majority of players enjoy creating their own characters and stories. That is a good way to kill your game before you ever get started, and a terrible business decision.
Creating the setting and then letting the players create their own world from there is giving players a game to play. Creating the whole story and showing it to people is making a book or a movie, not a game to play. I buy games to play them, not have them play themselves.
You seem to be confusing an established lore that sets the rules for the world, which is what I am discussing, with scripted events we play through. I never said I wanted that. Your having a debate with a point I never made.
And the Lore writers should come up with unique worlds people want to play in. Not necessarily every person. The world should have elements that set it apart from other games or what is the point of a new world. Classes with lore specific limitations is one tool to achieve that. I am not saying you need to like that particular tool.
If people do not like a particular tool , however, it would be a bad business decision to put it in the game. There are many tools they can choose to use, why use one that is so limiting from the very start?
Of course I should expect the writer to bend to " players" whims, that is what players pay them for, otherwise, players should just pay someone else to do the job. It is about meeting a demand. If they fail to meet the demand, people just take their business to those that will. Why hire a writer that isn't meeting the demands of your business? What you are suggesting is businesses should just run off the majority of players, since the majority of players enjoy creating their own characters and stories. That is a good way to kill your game before you ever get started, and a terrible business decision.
Creating the setting and then letting the players create their own world from there is giving players a game to play. Creating the whole story and showing it to people is making a book or a movie, not a game to play. I buy games to play them, not have them play themselves.
You seem to be confusing an established lore that sets the rules for the world, which is what I am discussing, with scripted events we play through. I never said I wanted that. Your having a debate with a point I never made.
And the Lore writers should come up with unique worlds people want to play in. Not necessarily every person. The world should have elements that set it apart from other games or what is the point of a new world. Classes with lore specific limitations is one tool to achieve that. I am not saying you need to like that particular tool.
If people do not like a particular tool , however, it would be a bad business decision to put it in the game. There are many tools they can choose to use, why use one that is so limiting from the very start?
Only if the number who dislike the use of that tool exceed the number who like the implementation and those that don't care. You are assuming enough people who would otherwise purchase won't because of that one thing. The company may believe that number is to small to alter their vision for.
Of course I should expect the writer to bend to " players" whims, that is what players pay them for, otherwise, players should just pay someone else to do the job. It is about meeting a demand. If they fail to meet the demand, people just take their business to those that will. Why hire a writer that isn't meeting the demands of your business? What you are suggesting is businesses should just run off the majority of players, since the majority of players enjoy creating their own characters and stories. That is a good way to kill your game before you ever get started, and a terrible business decision.
Creating the setting and then letting the players create their own world from there is giving players a game to play. Creating the whole story and showing it to people is making a book or a movie, not a game to play. I buy games to play them, not have them play themselves.
You seem to be confusing an established lore that sets the rules for the world, which is what I am discussing, with scripted events we play through. I never said I wanted that. Your having a debate with a point I never made.
And the Lore writers should come up with unique worlds people want to play in. Not necessarily every person. The world should have elements that set it apart from other games or what is the point of a new world. Classes with lore specific limitations is one tool to achieve that. I am not saying you need to like that particular tool.
If people do not like a particular tool , however, it would be a bad business decision to put it in the game. There are many tools they can choose to use, why use one that is so limiting from the very start?
Only if the number who dislike the use of that tool exceed the number who like the implementation and those that don't care. You are assuming enough people who would otherwise purchase won't because of that one thing. The company may believe that number is to small to alter their vision for.
The company would be wrong to think that number small. People would see an MMORPG releasing in this age of MMORPGs as being " outdated" to not include those customization features, as to compete in today's market all the Major games being released consider this standard now.
In addition, players may purchase a game, then stop playing it, stop buying items from the item shop and abandon it due to these lack of features. People buy plenty of games they do not continue playing... I have bought games I never bothered playing.. They certainly cannot determine the number of actual players from those who purchase it. Their goal should be to keep people playing, not just get them in the door.
If people do not like a particular tool , however, it would be a bad business decision to put it in the game. There are many tools they can choose to use, why use one that is so limiting from the very start?
Only if the number who dislike the use of that tool exceed the number who like the implementation and those that don't care. You are assuming enough people who would otherwise purchase won't because of that one thing. The company may believe that number is to small to alter their vision for.
The company would be wrong to think that number small. People would see an MMORPG releasing in this age of MMORPGs as being " outdated" to not include those customization features, as to compete in today's market all the Major games being released consider this standard now.
Sadly since neither of us have access to their data all we can do is speculate and watch. We will know soon enough in this particular case at least.
If people do not like a particular tool , however, it would be a bad business decision to put it in the game. There are many tools they can choose to use, why use one that is so limiting from the very start?
Only if the number who dislike the use of that tool exceed the number who like the implementation and those that don't care. You are assuming enough people who would otherwise purchase won't because of that one thing. The company may believe that number is to small to alter their vision for.
The company would be wrong to think that number small. People would see an MMORPG releasing in this age of MMORPGs as being " outdated" to not include those customization features, as to compete in today's market all the Major games being released consider this standard now.
Sadly since neither of us have access to their data all we can do is speculate and watch. We will know soon enough in this particular case at least.
I added this above: In addition, players may purchase a game, then stop playing it, stop buying items from the item shop and abandon it due to these lack of features. People buy plenty of games they do not continue playing... I have bought games I never bothered playing.. They certainly cannot determine the number of actual players from those who purchase it. Their goal should be to keep people playing, not just get them in the door.
The fact that this is even being discussed on the forums prior to it coming out is already a bad sign. The numbers playing games that allow for this customization vs the numbers of those who are playing games without this customization should speak for themselves. Black Desert already started to make changes since I do believe they realized this...
They have received feedback repeatedly on gender locking, that is why we are seeing opposite gender counterparts already.
The writers of the game's lore, as employed by the company developing the game, had their own choice in how to write the lore. They decided to write the lore in a way that would gender lock classes. Whether or not the lore is deep did not require that decision, yet they decided on it anyways.
But hey, like I said, if they want less money because of less broad appeal, more power to them.
Lore should be about good story telling. They shouldn't have to weaken the Lore just to make a change so utterly unimportant to play to include a gender.
I've said this countless times before... Most of the people who complain about gender lock have no problem playing other races. The fact that they have less difficulty relating to a wholly foreign race than another gender is baffling.
Good story telling does not require gender-locking lore. If anything, it's the sign of a bad and lazy story-teller to resort to gender roles in lore. That's so ridiculously cliche and uncreative by now, unless there's a story built around it, which BDO's lore does not have (as is the nature of most MMORPGs, because the player is supposed to be the main character). In BDO's case, they just slapped on some gender roles in the lore and left it as background and that's that, which is some of the laziest ways you could go about establishing lore identity, ever.
The writers of the game's lore, as employed by the company developing the game, had their own choice in how to write the lore. They decided to write the lore in a way that would gender lock classes. Whether or not the lore is good story telling did not require that decision, yet they decided on it anyways.
But hey, like I said, if they want less money because of less broad appeal just because they were so uncreative that they couldn't come up with a lore that didn't have such restricted gender roles in it, more power to them.
I downloaded the character creator for Black Desert today and was not previously aware of the gendered classes. I haven't played the game yet but I know witch and wizard are identical whereas warrior and valkyrie both use sword and shield but seem to have different fighting styles.
Thanks for the answer. I don't understand why a company forces players to play a character they cannot identify with ? They spend millions on the game and just want to save money on art work etc ?
Their original plan was to make different genders of classes play vastly different. But later on they settled for only different effects
That makes sense and I think it could be very interesting if you don't mind playing a character of the opposite sex. I have to wonder if they might redo all the classes in six or twelve months after release. I was kind of baffled that the character creator had 5 female classes and only 3 male. I'm fairly certain male players still outnumber the female ones and most guys prefer to play male characters.
Comments
You are assuming enough people who would otherwise purchase won't because of that one thing. The company may believe that number is to small to alter their vision for.
In addition, players may purchase a game, then stop playing it, stop buying items from the item shop and abandon it due to these lack of features. People buy plenty of games they do not continue playing... I have bought games I never bothered playing.. They certainly cannot determine the number of actual players from those who purchase it. Their goal should be to keep people playing, not just get them in the door.
We will know soon enough in this particular case at least.
In addition, players may purchase a game, then stop playing it, stop buying items from the item shop and abandon it due to these lack of features. People buy plenty of games they do not continue playing... I have bought games I never bothered playing.. They certainly cannot determine the number of actual players from those who purchase it. Their goal should be to keep people playing, not just get them in the door.
The fact that this is even being discussed on the forums prior to it coming out is already a bad sign. The numbers playing games that allow for this customization vs the numbers of those who are playing games without this customization should speak for themselves. Black Desert already started to make changes since I do believe they realized this...
They have received feedback repeatedly on gender locking, that is why we are seeing opposite gender counterparts already.
The writers of the game's lore, as employed by the company developing the game, had their own choice in how to write the lore. They decided to write the lore in a way that would gender lock classes. Whether or not the lore is good story telling did not require that decision, yet they decided on it anyways.
But hey, like I said, if they want less money because of less broad appeal just because they were so uncreative that they couldn't come up with a lore that didn't have such restricted gender roles in it, more power to them.
That makes sense and I think it could be very interesting if you don't mind playing a character of the opposite sex. I have to wonder if they might redo all the classes in six or twelve months after release.
I was kind of baffled that the character creator had 5 female classes and only 3 male. I'm fairly certain male players still outnumber the female ones and most guys prefer to play male characters.