The real driver behind gold spammers is - earning potential - aka populat games that have lots of people buying gold.
If the game is popular - B2P is a zero deterrent. Case in point Archeage Alpha $150 entry fee had tens of thousands gold spammer accounts banned.
What ultimately kills gold spam is the lack of buying customers.
The price of entry makes no difference whatsoever.
Archeage is a really bad example of your point. That game had a massive amount of accounts stolen and the fraud accounts were just insane as well. Those accounts where not purchased for 150$ just to spam gold seller ads, don't even kid yourself.
B2P is not a complete deterrent of course, but to say it has zero effect defies common sense. Of course having to purchase new accounts has some effect. Now if the game is giving out thousands of free trials and beta codes, then those get exploited by gold sellers as well. Naturally there has to be demand before a supplier will even invest the time and effort to produce supply, but the choice of business model does have some effect on things too. The game mechanics have the biggest effect though. Some games it just doesn't make much sense to purchase in game currency, and some games it is very lucrative to do so. I have not played Albion, but if it is a player driven economy where buying gold could give you a big advantage then anything they can do to mitigate that is a good idea.
Hmm, just wondering but couldn't game companies sell gold? That certainly would put away some gold spammers, if the price is low enough that it become unprofitable for this groups.
The company already sells GOLD and Silver ..for Real Money
BUT Gold sellers are 3-4 times cheaper O_o
not to forget: "Point & Click" wannabe PvP - laughable
and "Full Loot" just drives the masses away!! ;D
What I got out of it was they had 70K backers most I am sure bought packages that would give them access to the pre release... err....closed beta. I suspect the number of people still playing is in the low 4 figure range.
This game was an instant fizzle, probably why they could so quickly make a decision like this. They new they werent going to make money from people playing the game so they had to try and make (more) money selling the game.
While it won't completely stop gold spammers, at least it will stop to an extent what can only be described as the dregs of the online world.
Lets face it when it comes to toxic communities F2P games are always the absolute worst.
This game isn't for everyone true, however i'm currently enjoying it and the devs seem pretty genuine about trying to make a decent game. The P2W argument is old and tired, people who have a premium account get 50% more xp when doing stuff yeah but then why is it these days everyone expects to get everything for nothing?
Pretty much every game is P2W depending how you look at it, even WoW with a sub model is P2W if you wanna get into semantics, because lets face it, if you don't pay the sub you don't get to play/win.
Are they going with the ESO selling content patches practice too? Cause that's a pretty shitty b2p model.
Why?
If you went to see the recent Star Wars film do you expect to see the next one ....... free? OK maybe you didn't pay so how about:
If you filled up your car with fuel and had to pay are you expecting to get your next tankful free?
If you went and bought a loaf of bread are you expecting - you guessed it - to get the next one for free?
What job do you do or business do you run pray tell because then I can say "I should have the next whatever you do" for free and your next income can be free of anything financial.
Asking: "is something worth the price" - fine and fundamental; simply expecting something for nothing sorry no replicators here.
Why? Because MMOS aren't movies. Because B2P or not, MMOs always have been a base game and then free content patches until an expansion comes out. Because nobody sells content patches. Because when you call your MMO B2P, it should be a given that you're selling your game as it grows, not selling people a snapshot of how the game looked in a certain patch.
Yep that stuff some seem to feel they should not have to use to have new games anymore. All games should just be free, no cash shop either, just free... DEvs should just move back into their basements, drop all of that fancy software, and just make games from old cardboard and plastic.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think they should charge anyone not paying a sub for the content. Supporting a game is very important and after you pay for the game initially no other income comes in unless their cash shop does well so why give away content for free. Charge for it and let those who pay play it as part of their subscription. That makes it fair.
I think the games that expect one part of the population to support the other players like F2P does and the players who free load off those who support it work quite well if you look at the numbers but do create a very lopsided stability. Should any of the supporters leave or get interested in some other game the game will suffer a quick loss of its main source of income. So they are constantly only working to keep the people who pay to support the game. In my book the free loaders do not deserve any attention as they are there merely to make the game look busy and help plump up the numbers.
It all depends on how big a game is and how big the developers want it to be. F2P games have to have large population of free loaders with a small numbers of whales supporting it. You need more people to spend money to make these games focus more on the people that pay reasonable sums and not only the whales. Right now I do not see that except in games like League of Legends that have a very good system in place.
Most F2P games just use rather draconian methods to force people to spend like a vicious RNG that gets you deeper and deeper into a bad hole like most Perfect World games.
I prefer the B2P model to the F2P so I can avoid the RNG sting.
LOL it is already pay to win,EVERY single one of these games is a RACE and giving players the chance to race faster is p2w. Almsost everything we see in most games is p2w,even bag space,mounts,xp potions all p2w,the ONLY things that should ever be in a CS are visual items but even that is a problem because then to make those sales you likely get horrid gear in game and better looking gear in CS. Bottom line is CS's are a terrible way to run a game,there will always be the idea somewhere in the back of their head that they just need to step up the CS a bit a little each time,until it is full blown trying to basically sell everything that should be earned in game in the CS.
I completely agree with this. And for Robin to say "Unfortunately, the pay to play / subscription model has been dead for a long time" they no nothing about the MMO industry and the Subscription Model. The ONLY reason why its not working is we have MMOs costing $200+ Million and a $15 a month sub from 500K players is not enough to keep the game alive. Look at FFXIV, its a sub and going strong BECAUSE they didnt sink millions into making the game or remaking the game. Albion is ONLY designed to make money like every other MMO that does a cash shop as their main source of revenue and no the Box cost is just to help pay off the initial investment.
P2P MMOs are far and better the best model. You just get F2P B2P crap when you have a floored market with crappy games that need these models just to have the game.
Isn't FF14 the game that rents you extra storage space and has all that crap so you need the extra storage space. Isn't this on top of the subscription and B2P box fee they charge? lololol Glass house => don't throw stones.
You dont need the extra storage unless you are a pack rat. I used extra storage for a few months because I was. But for 90% of the time I never needed it until I tried to do all the crafting at one time. So no you dont need it.
FFXIV has 100% better business model than the B2P F2P crap out there and its people like you that cannot understand that period. The ONLY reason they added more retainer space for players to buy its because several thousand people asked for it on the forum because the Developers didnt want to expand the current space. All of that is due to bad database design which would take a massive effort to fix.
I suppose if the gaming world insists on being cheap instant gratification snobs then B2P would be the better alternative. I probably wont ever play a B2P MMO with nearly as much zeal as a good old fashioned P2P MMO but well... ive been playing GW2 on and off, may even spend some cash on it here and there.
Not sure what all the fuss is about. They stated in this article that the reason for the b2p model was to satisfy their 70,000 backers for the game that want to see it succeed. This is meant to be a legitimate MMORPG, not a freemium candy crush, so I support the move. I guess it makes sense for me since I already paid my $30 to get into the game, and I have had a blast, it's really addictive. Really, anything that comes from Germany is polished and well designed, and this game has been no exception imo. As far as 'not hardcore enough' there are zones that are safe for new players to master the game mechanics and not have to fear A-hole super jerk coming in ganking them and stealing their stuff. There are gradually more zones that have increasing difficulty and degrees of open world PvP that you can choose to progress to. I personally am staying in the safe zones for the time being until my understanding of the game and how best to gear and craft expands. I see no issue with this because it means all types of people are allowed to play this game how they want to. If you want to get in on all the GvG stuff, there are plenty of ways to do that. If your goal is to quest casually, build up resources and supply items then you can do that. Not sure why a game all of a sudden sucks because it won't force people to be 'food' for the A-hole gank squad who is too afraid to just go fight people of equal skill and power. But I guess that's why I don't play those types of games. By the way, the premium status can be purchased with in game silver. I think its like 200k for a month status. I think if you participated in the economy intelligently, farming that amount of silver every 30 days is not that difficult. At the same time, buying the gold for the status isn't that much money in the first place.
Holy... I wasn't expecting this. Def not going to play this, not interested anymore.
These guys have been in the Early-Access thing for how long? 1 year+ already since the first beta tests? All this crap while also increasing the hype of the game, and paying streamers to play the game on Twitch. This is a common practice nowadays, with companies charging money for the desperate folks out there that are looking for a new MMO to play.
Now don't get me wrong, I can tolerate this shitty models (with headstarts and all that stuff) for some time. Albion seemed to be abusing this technique a bit too much, and now going straight into B2P while keeping the Cash Shop?
These guys can easily write a book called "How to milk an MMO without even releasing it". Sorry, but I'm disgusted.
B2P is the way to go, he said it right, when it's F2P the botter's and spammer's are out of control at least in B2P format that is to a minimum if not non existent i.e ESO, I've never gotten a buy gold whisper or mail sent to me although in FFIX I do get them all the time but I think that's due to the 7 day free trial dummy accounts.
B2P is a better option IMO, as long as the game's good enough to justify the initial investment. It also means less goldfarmer vermin spamming the chats and harassing honest players through mails and tells.
The real driver behind gold spammers is - earning potential - aka populat games that have lots of people buying gold.
If the game is popular - B2P is a zero deterrent. Case in point Archeage Alpha $150 entry fee had tens of thousands gold spammer accounts banned.
What ultimately kills gold spam is the lack of buying customers.
The price of entry makes no difference whatsoever.
This pretty much. The only thing buy to play deters are the ones who cheat for fun and not for profit. Which isn't bad of course, but still would be nice to get rid of gold farmers.
B2P is a better option IMO, as long as the game's good enough to justify the initial investment. It also means less goldfarmer vermin spamming the chats and harassing honest players through mails and tells.
The real driver behind gold spammers is - earning potential - aka populat games that have lots of people buying gold.
If the game is popular - B2P is a zero deterrent. Case in point Archeage Alpha $150 entry fee had tens of thousands gold spammer accounts banned.
What ultimately kills gold spam is the lack of buying customers.
The price of entry makes no difference whatsoever.
This pretty much. The only thing buy to play deters are the ones who cheat for fun and not for profit. Which isn't bad of course, but still would be nice to get rid of gold farmers.
Well, to go a bit further with this; There's a pretty fair chance that those gold spammers aren't buying accounts to start with, they are stealing them. Maybe early on, to get the general investment built up. But, once they have settled in, there are always plenty of "free" accounts available to them.
They don't have to go out and plunk down the B2P price every time they get an account ban. They simply get their hands on someone else's account.
If the game is a race, and a premium subscription lets you run faster, that is pay to win. I just love arrogant developers4 that think players can't see this. If the goal is to get to point A first, the person with the subscription will win, that is paying to win and it is why so many free games fail.
Telling you, company are seeing people drawn to B2P it will get bad sooner or later. Like started with Sub when company making really bad MMO to take more people money so people then moved over F2P. Then F2P rush came in then company started to be shady to get more of people money. Now it's time for B2P will just get worst over time and people will fall for it in the name of hype!
Comments
B2P is not a complete deterrent of course, but to say it has zero effect defies common sense. Of course having to purchase new accounts has some effect. Now if the game is giving out thousands of free trials and beta codes, then those get exploited by gold sellers as well. Naturally there has to be demand before a supplier will even invest the time and effort to produce supply, but the choice of business model does have some effect on things too. The game mechanics have the biggest effect though. Some games it just doesn't make much sense to purchase in game currency, and some games it is very lucrative to do so. I have not played Albion, but if it is a player driven economy where buying gold could give you a big advantage then anything they can do to mitigate that is a good idea.
The company already sells GOLD and Silver ..for Real Money
BUT Gold sellers are 3-4 times cheaper O_o
not to forget: "Point & Click" wannabe PvP - laughable
and "Full Loot" just drives the masses away!! ;D
This game was an instant fizzle, probably why they could so quickly make a decision like this. They new they werent going to make money from people playing the game so they had to try and make (more) money selling the game.
Lets face it when it comes to toxic communities F2P games are always the absolute worst.
This game isn't for everyone true, however i'm currently enjoying it and the devs seem pretty genuine about trying to make a decent game. The P2W argument is old and tired, people who have a premium account get 50% more xp when doing stuff yeah but then why is it these days everyone expects to get everything for nothing?
Pretty much every game is P2W depending how you look at it, even WoW with a sub model is P2W if you wanna get into semantics, because lets face it, if you don't pay the sub you don't get to play/win.
Why? Because MMOS aren't movies. Because B2P or not, MMOs always have been a base game and then free content patches until an expansion comes out. Because nobody sells content patches. Because when you call your MMO B2P, it should be a given that you're selling your game as it grows, not selling people a snapshot of how the game looked in a certain patch.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think the games that expect one part of the population to support the other players like F2P does and the players who free load off those who support it work quite well if you look at the numbers but do create a very lopsided stability. Should any of the supporters leave or get interested in some other game the game will suffer a quick loss of its main source of income. So they are constantly only working to keep the people who pay to support the game. In my book the free loaders do not deserve any attention as they are there merely to make the game look busy and help plump up the numbers.
It all depends on how big a game is and how big the developers want it to be. F2P games have to have large population of free loaders with a small numbers of whales supporting it. You need more people to spend money to make these games focus more on the people that pay reasonable sums and not only the whales. Right now I do not see that except in games like League of Legends that have a very good system in place.
Most F2P games just use rather draconian methods to force people to spend like a vicious RNG that gets you deeper and deeper into a bad hole like most Perfect World games.
I prefer the B2P model to the F2P so I can avoid the RNG sting.
You dont need the extra storage unless you are a pack rat. I used extra storage for a few months because I was. But for 90% of the time I never needed it until I tried to do all the crafting at one time. So no you dont need it.
FFXIV has 100% better business model than the B2P F2P crap out there and its people like you that cannot understand that period. The ONLY reason they added more retainer space for players to buy its because several thousand people asked for it on the forum because the Developers didnt want to expand the current space. All of that is due to bad database design which would take a massive effort to fix.
These guys have been in the Early-Access thing for how long? 1 year+ already since the first beta tests? All this crap while also increasing the hype of the game, and paying streamers to play the game on Twitch. This is a common practice nowadays, with companies charging money for the desperate folks out there that are looking for a new MMO to play.
Now don't get me wrong, I can tolerate this shitty models (with headstarts and all that stuff) for some time. Albion seemed to be abusing this technique a bit too much, and now going straight into B2P while keeping the Cash Shop?
These guys can easily write a book called "How to milk an MMO without even releasing it". Sorry, but I'm disgusted.
So yeah, good imo!
I'm sorry, but this is pretty much the definition of pay-to-win. Its too bad because thematically the game always looked promising.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
This pretty much. The only thing buy to play deters are the ones who cheat for fun and not for profit. Which isn't bad of course, but still would be nice to get rid of gold farmers.
They don't have to go out and plunk down the B2P price every time they get an account ban. They simply get their hands on someone else's account.