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We need new ideas for MMORPGs
Kingsletter
Member UncommonPosts: 9
So Ive been recently looking at MMORPGs coming out and being announced and Ive noticed quite a few of them keep mentioning the "Good ole" days of MMORPGs where you had to put long consecutive hours just to do part of a content.
Before I dive any further into it let me mention that I have pretty much played 80% MMORPGs that have been released so far.
Speaking from personal experience, I played WoW vanilla and I remember the raiding and dungeons that took so much effort and time to finish with so little reward. when you had to be a specific build for people and guilds to accept you, and there was only one optimum way of playing your character. The days where you had to log in and do your dailies, and even today you still have to do them.
Now I mention all these to ask, do we really miss that kind of gameplay? Do we even have the time these days to put long hours everyday just so that we can experience part the game?
I remember when WIldstar got announced, I was the first in line to get that game. I reached max level and did a few raids, but then the game started to slowly die out. and as we can see they are trying to get on steam in hopes of saving the ship. That's what I believe they did wrong, they tried to bring back that whole hardcore and time consuming level of content.
I personally believe a lot of these games tend to be so focused on reviving the old ways that they lose sight of the fact that players have moved on and are in need of something fresh rather than the same old concepts with better visuals.
What do you think?
And please try and keep the discussion respectful.
PS: Apologies for any grammatical errors, English is not my native tongue.
Comments
What it looks like to me is that developers simply cannot afford to make triple A games,they can afford a budget game because it is all about making high profits it is not about making great games.
For a while the early years 2002-2005 we had somewhat legit excuses,still testing new ideas,still seeing new technology and needing better bandwidth and better PC's.Those excuses can no longer be used now devs are simply leaving out their BEST EFFORT and giving us half assed gaming.
I see the same fanbois/bandwagon each new game....oh great looking world....great looking character creation....where is THE GAME ??
Then for combat their idea of revolutionizing it is with somersaults,high flying leaps in the air coming down laying waste to 10 mobs in one fell swoop.Oh did i mention you can lay waste to it all SOLO,good thing we have that LOGIN screen to play solo.
Questing is a FAIL and END game is another fail idea,both of those are poor reasons to call yourself a MMO+RPG.Questing does NOT promote friends nor grouping nor a login screen.END game is a fail at creating THE GAME,ok we don't really have agood game just a leveling system using quests but NOW we got this great game called RAIDING...ummm NO...stop it !!!.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't need a new idea for an MMO, I'm not going to develop one. I just want the MMO with the new ideas in them.
Hypothetical we, meaning Devs need to make games with new ideas. Cause for me to really commit to an MMORPG now, it needs to be fresh and different.
Also Im sick of MInecraft clones.
In real life for example there are a lot of raid bosses people are raiding at the moment as we speak. Everything that drops valuable loot usually is difficult to raid with high risk.
PvE/PvM is for players who like to win without losing. Who want to get loot without any risks. Who want to play their game without any distractions, preferably with their family members, relatives or real life friends....I dunno honestly what are they doing in MMO's...
Most importantly...you cannot play these games when you want because you depend on certain individuals that only log through certain periods through the week.
The problem is that MMOs are a HUGE investment and an even greater risk. Really, devs are being responsible by sticking to the "tried and true" themeparks that WoW has given birth to.
However, as tools become more readily available, and much less expensive, it eases up that pressure a bit. Once MMO development becomes a simple matter (which it's getting very close to) we'll see developers taking more chances and exploring more possibilities.
Having said all that, I'm currently working with a team of industry vets on a very risky, new concept.
In it's most simplified pitch, our cyberpunk MMO starts players out as powerful in combat as they can be. A gun can kill you, regardless of who's shooting it. Your clothes are just clothes (unless you're wearing police armor). You then spend your time building the depth and skills of your character.
Sure, increased firearms skills give you a few perks (greater chance for critical damage, wider margin of error when aiming, etc.) but you'll largely focus on non-combat elements. Business, hacking, crafting, exploring, counterfeiting, unlocking hidden skills, building reputation with various organizations, etc.
Our goal is to constantly have players discover new things to do rather than gain the ability to do the same two things better and better. We hope to eliminate a bulk of the repetition.
Same setting, same quests, same character mechanics, same crafting and so on. The combat systems might be somewhat different but otherwise most games are far too similar.
As I see it what we need to the genre is a game that feels different to play but also is really fun.
For that to work we do need new mechanics, either totally new ideas or things borrowed from single player games. pen or paper games or something else that is different from what we have but still works. Some good ideas might be lifted from old MMOs that were fun but havn't been used for a long time but I am saying some, a few at most.
The genre would win a lot on a few games that feels different from anything we seen in the past. Remaking old games is not a winning concept, most of those old games never really did that great in the past and there is a reason for that. The genre needs to be moving forward, not back. One thing that is even worse then moving backwards though is staying just the same, that will slowly kill the genre.
When people say they want smarter bosses, they don't believe that devs haven't ever dialed down the boss powers. Content is suppose to be beatable (exceptions may apply).
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
VR headset
Smartphone
Gamepad
If you combine 3 of them right , you will get next MMO bomb . I wonder who will be the first able to make it .
(not me though , i don't have enough fund to test lol )
They are not doing it because it sure seems like game development right now is just too costly.
So how do these devs take too long and spend too much and still only achieve about a 30% effort?Well poor planning,bad directors and producers and too many big suits taking from the cookie jar forces games to be in rush mode,fast systems no polishing no depth etc etc.
I could see it like this ......
Employee "Oh i have some great ideas for our game !! "
Boss "No time ,just dot around some mobs and trigger some quests into them and you have 1 year to do it".
Employee "I am a great artist,i am going to make some great stuff for this game"
Boss "No time just make some fast 6-12 hour models and make sure they are very low poly".
The other problem is NONE of these devs are investing,they want instant profits as soon as the game hits the shelves,so because they need instant profits games are not designed around longevity but to get some fast cash grabs.Then worry about keeping players longer after we get some money rolling in.
Point being,these devs have no shortage of ideas and talent but they do have a shortage of money,leadership skills and patience.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And bikini with katana lol ? (sorry for use the bikini joke a lots)
As much as new ideas would be nice. It would be nice to see many of the older games get a chance to develop with modern framework. Almost all other types of MMORPG were abandon in 2004.
But there will be bikinis... and katanas
The "good old days" is not synonymous with spending lots of time.
When my friends and I think of "the good old days", firstly we think pre-wow. Secondly, the overriding theme we think of is living, persistent worlds with a social focus. Some were themepark, some were sandbox, many were grindy, but each of the developers seemed to be trying to create worlds to live in and have fun in with other people.
Do I miss waiting 20minutes to get buffed in Coruscant in SWG before I could do anything? No. Do I miss waiting 5 minutes for a shuttle to arrive every time I wanted to travel anywhere? No. The genre has moved on, become more refined and more accessible than the old days. Thats fine and I'm happy with that.
However, the trend (from a design / ethos point of view) has been away from living, persistent worlds towards linear, scripted content. Its a good way to deliver content, but the lifespan of such content is finite which is why retention rates are so low and ongoing development costs remain high.
Thats why some of the new MMOs are refering to bringing back the good old days. They aren't trying to bring back hardcore attitudes, or ridiculously grindy mechanics. They are trying to recapture the sense of achievement and wonder that many of us felt in our first few MMOs, trying to give us a living world which we feel a part of and want to stay with long term.
As for Wildstar.....I don't think it failed because it tried to be hardcore. I'd be very surprised if 5% of the playerbase even made it to the hardcore aspects of the game. My personal opinion is it failed due to mixed messages / death by a thousand cuts. It wanted to be hardcore, but shoved casual down your throat. It wanted to bring back the WoW endgame feel, but ruined it with action combat. There were lots of small bits wrong throughout the whole game (ui, terminology, dull questing, optimisation, humour) that by themselves you could deal with, but added up resulted in a feeling that the game just wasn't worth it.
On a final note, I'd just like to say we've never had a AAA western sandbox MMORPG. When I think about bringing back the good ol' days, this is what I think about. I want a developer who will take the design philosophies of old MMORPGs (open worlds, persistence, character freedom, player inter-dependance) and apply the lessons learnt and technology of the last 10 years to make a truly great MMO.
Ideally a market as big as the video game industry should be able to offer me both, and not one to the exclusion of the other.
If I go clothes shopping I can buy an outfit that is very formal and conservative, or I can pick up something hip. Why are video games (from the point of view of selling products) any different?
I am playing games, not getting married.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
And all newer titles should be able to run and look good on integrated graphics...that's all I'm a simple man.
for instance
- stats
- current fashion trends from modern retail stores scaled to fit your avatar
- be able to make $78/hr from your Garrison or Guild Hall
- Sound and graphic emote that when you put a quarter in a screen pops up and says "You Win"
It's unfortunate that MMORPGS are becoming lobby base games. Everquest is the grandfather of MMO's and I believe their game design philosophy was rather simple. Develop a massively multiplayer role playing game that allows the players to become apart of a living breathing world with other players developing a community based game to journey with in the game. I think MMORPG"s lost that fundamental reason of what makes MMO's great.
Community (Group based content) - Challenge (Risk Vs. Reward) - Variety (Vast array of options for gameplay and progression) - Immersion (Log into a living breathing world) are the four pillars of what I believe makes an MMORPG an MMORPG. All four of these pillars are quiet essential and what are lacking in currently developed games.
The concept of having mobs relocate in a meaningful way when they are killed would be interesting.
Having a verity of different roles you can play in game and compete against other people in helps again with the competition/motivational aspect IMO.
I'm a big believer in removing labels from everything in game and letting players discover what is what for themselves. No more instanced areas completely separate from the rest of the world. Just mix a few things together in a persistent world.
The more you can make the world feel alive the better. The more you play through themeparks with static quests the more you see through the game mechanics which detracts from the fun of playing.
Yes, we are indie, and yes, we're using Unity. Or goal is to take out the errand boy aspect of MMOs. We build a massive world with tons to do, scatter some points of interest around and let you live your own life. I suppose it could be called a survival game, but it's not like you're scavenging for food or being hunted by zombies...
This image is taken in game (running at about 70FPS). NOTE: The gun is a placeholder (just to test out the drawing and aiming functions and animations).
EDIT: Also note, this is one of the very ritzy, very expensive penthouse apartments you can own and customize. This is assuming of course that you're a powerful CEO or well connected mob boss. The average joe street runner will likely only be able to afford a two room loft in downtown.
So like you are out and about in the world and find a huge citadel like structure, you see a few players hopping around on a couple of hidden ledges on the outer wall trying to reach a walkway that leads past the gate, deeper into the complex...
So you follow them, great them with a wave, they bow, you start looking around, point in a few directions, they respond with a nod of the head "yes," or shake "no" so you decide to try going THAT way instead of this... you make an inquisitive leap and find a secret entrance to a staircase that leads up.
Overjoyed, you look back at your new friends and wave them towards you, they clap, make the difficult jump and you all progress to the next part of the puzzle.
There are a bunch of levers. You pull one, don't really see any reaction. You (and they) pull a few more. Something clicks. You don't know what or why.
So now, given the few gestures you have to communicate, how do you solve this problem with these total strangers?
I don't know. A simple idea. No combat. No real progression, just social "play" ya know?