I seem to have rustled your jimmies quite a bit. You like Blade and Soul, good for you, yet you missed my point entirely.
Action combat with a PVP endgame is innovation to you? Thoughts like that hurt the MMO genre far more than people wanting WoW clones. I never said I wanted this game to be like WoW, far from it. In fact, at it's core Blade and Soul IS a WoW clone. Aside from the combat, you do exactly what you do in WoW. Grind gear, grind dailies, queue for dungeons and PVP. I am certain you will dismiss that assertion with a wave of your hand and a scoff, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true. If anything this game is a massive step backwards with not only its on-rails questing, but on-rails ZONES.
I actually wanted innovation from Blade and Soul, evidently you did not and you are perfectly satisfied with "the combat is cool! call it a day!" Admittedly, for the price of admission the combat is fun enough to kill a couple hours. Yet, that is it. There is literally no reason for Blade and Soul to exist as the game that it is. None. A true PVP-centric MMO would use the concept of massively multiplayer worlds to enhance the PVP. Notice that little world "massively," I used there. Doesn't mesh very well with 1v1 arenas. You know what does? Fighting games, like I said.
If this game is "innovative," to you and the rest of the MMORPG fans in the west, then the genre truly is dead.
No sandy, you did not rustle my jimmies.
I did not miss your point, I quoted it word for word. You complained that, once again I will quote you, "This game has 0 mechanics that we have come to expect from MMORPGs at this point" . I am not trying to split hairs, that statement is pretty clear. The game used different mechanics to achieve aspects of game play and you don't like them. You want change, get change and don't like the change. So you either didn't really want change in the first place, (this falls into the bitching on the internet just to be heard type of gamer) or the changes they made are not to your liking (find another game that will make you happy)
It is a pvp game, yes having a pvp endgame is actually different then most endgames out there. At its core B&S is nothing like WoW. The core of the game is the pvp and combat, that is the core. WoW end game is actually PvE raiding. Raids are your typical themepark endgame, if you haven't played one. Not every aspect of B&S is innovating. The linear quest and level progression if very themepark. But I do not think anybody has disputed that.
You are short sited if you think the 1v1 and 3v3 arena is the only combat open to you. I have been in fights with 20 people on each side, there are massively multiplayer fights out there. if you do not like pvp then this is just not the game for you. see above with the ... find another game that will make you happy.
The game is not the same as your typical mmo. The further you get into the content the harder your fights become, I made a point of killing all the bosses solo or when that proved to hard for me duo. Some players enjoy the weapon level ups so that you are not required to hunt down your bis as they tell you what it is. For pvp that is great, its less gear and more skill based to a point.. Some people like that flexibility of stacking your soul shields the way you want them with out the need to change the look you have cultivated for your avatar, this is basically the same as appearance gear imo, just done differently, Some people like that your skill point placement can actually change the way you play your character, they like tweaking the build on the fly, you just don't get that option in most games. You may not see the value in these things and you should find another game that will make you happy.
You may not see the value in these things and you should find another game that will make you happy.
Me personally not liking it does not change my critique in any way, shape, or form. Basically all you have said is "well if you like PVP, Blade and Soul is great," which I have not denied. That doesn't make it a good game. I could easily argue EVE is better for PVP, and I have pretty good idea how most of the fans of Blade and Soul would disagree. Yet... criticism of EVE being nothing but spreadsheets, too rough on a solo player, and extremely unfriendly to those who don't multi-box are very very valid criticisms. Yet one thing that can't be called into question with EVE is wether or not the game has an identity. BnS, from my standpoint and evidently many others, has a huge identity crisis. If it's all about the PVP, why even have the rest? You have not answered that question.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
You may not see the value in these things and you should find another game that will make you happy.
Me personally not liking it does not change my critique in any way, shape, or form. Basically all you have said is "well if you like PVP, Blade and Soul is great," which I have not denied. That doesn't m1ake it a good game. I could easily argue EVE is better for PVP, and I have pretty good idea how most of the fans of Blade and Soul would disagree. Yet... criticism of EVE being nothing but spreadsheets, too rough on a solo player, and extremely unfriendly to those who don't multi-box are very very valid criticisms. Yet one thing that can't be called into question with EVE is wether or not the game has an identity. BnS, from my standpoint and evidently many others, has a huge identity crisis. If it's all about the PVP, why even have the rest? You have not answered that question.
Why bother having PVE if the focus is PVP? For people who enjoy PVE. It's really not that difficult to understand. EVE is mainly a PVP game. There's PVE too for people who enjoy it. Imagine that.
Why bother having PVE if the focus is PVP? For people who enjoy PVE. It's really not that difficult to understand. EVE is mainly a PVP game. There's PVE too for people who enjoy it. Imagine that.
I agree, but an important distinction with eve is that the PVE and PVP blend together seemlessly. PVE players still feel like part of the world and the community. Mission runners provide rare modules to PVP players, crafters provide replacement ships, minerals provide resources to said crafters, haulers assist logistically for giant player wars, etc.
This is where BnS fails. PVE exists totally separate from PVP, which is why I think it doesn't belong at all. Gear is even normalized in arenas, something the fanbase adores, and while I also like that concept from a PVP standpoint, it totally negates the concept of farming for gear. Other games do this way better, such as GW2. Your gear is normalized, making gear largely pointless, but the experience of actually getting the gear is simply fun and rewarding in its own right. This is not the case in BnS, as outside of the combat itself the PVE game is painfully boring.
So... if your argument is simply that some people like PVE, than the devs were just pandering to try to cash in on content locusts. Common, yet still scummy. And normally I wouldn't care at all about such business practices, and would just steer clear, but BnS is being praised around the net, and in this very thread, as some sort of second coming for MMOs that revolutionizes combat and turns the genre on it's head. I don't see it, I see a barebones PVE game holding back what could have been an amazing PVP game.
Pure PVP games are not MMOs, they are games like League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc. Hell, MMOs can even exist with PVP and PVE being totally separated and still feel like a complete experience on both ends. Look at Destiny, or even the much maligned WoW. PVP players and PVE players enjoy both.
All of that said, people liking the combat, art style, story, yada yada is all totally acceptable and fine. Though an honest discussion needs to be had about the quality of the product, because the devs will make no effort whatsoever to fix it if no one tells them it's broken (or in this case, not even there).
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
Why bother having PVE if the focus is PVP? For people who enjoy PVE. It's really not that difficult to understand. EVE is mainly a PVP game. There's PVE too for people who enjoy it. Imagine that.
I agree, but an important distinction with eve is that the PVE and PVP blend together seemlessly. PVE players still feel like part of the world and the community. Mission runners provide rare modules to PVP players, crafters provide replacement ships, minerals provide resources to said crafters, haulers assist logistically for giant player wars, etc.
This is where BnS fails. PVE exists totally separate from PVP, which is why I think it doesn't belong at all. Gear is even normalized in arenas, something the fanbase adores, and while I also like that concept from a PVP standpoint, it totally negates the concept of farming for gear. Other games do this way better, such as GW2. Your gear is normalized, making gear largely pointless, but the experience of actually getting the gear is simply fun and rewarding in its own right. This is not the case in BnS, as outside of the combat itself the PVE game is painfully boring.
So... if your argument is simply that some people like PVP, than the devs were just pandering to try to cash in on content locusts. Common, yet still scummy. And normally I wouldn't care at all about such business practices, and would just steer clear, but BnS is being praised around the net, and in this very thread, as some sort of second coming for MMOs that revolutionizes combat and turns the genre on it's head. I don't see it, I see a barebones PVE game holding back what could have been an amazing PVP game.
Pure PVP games are not MMOs, they are games like League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc. Hell, MMOs can even exist with PVP and PVE being totally separated and still feel like a complete experience on both ends. Look at Destiny, or even the much maligned WoW. PVP players and PVE players enjoy both.
All of that said, people liking the combat, art style, story, yada yada is all totally acceptable and fine. Though an honest discussion needs to be had about the quality of the product, because the devs will make no effort whatsoever to fix it if no one tells them it's broken (or in this case, not even there).
I like the PVE and the PVP, so I guess I'm doing it wrong. Why does one need to be integrated into another to be good? Most themeparks have PVE that is completely separate from PVP because when the two merge, there's complaining and tears. I can't understand why people think B&S is more shallow than any other recent themepark. There are instances, quests, dailies, OW-PVP, instanced PVP, outfits, crafting, etc. It's standard fare.
Sure, crafting may not be intricate, but crafting as a mechanic is almost never good anyways. Push a button, make an item. The instances aren't anything special, but are fun thanks to the amazing combat. The upgrade system, I personally like because your gear grows with you as opposed to constantly replacing it. The OW-PVP objectives can be fun in small doses like pretty much every other themepark. The instanced PVP isn't anything special from a feature standpoint, but it's carried by the most skill based combat we've ever seen in an MMO.
Unlike most MMORPG's, the game is mechanically fun to play which goes a long way. How many players are there that care about PVE and PVP being integrated into one another? How many players are there that hate the PVE enough to quit? I'm just not so sure it's as big of a deal as people on this website seem to think it is. I don't feel like the game needs "fixed" as you say. I feel like it's fine. The game doesn't appeal to some players. That's okay. They're welcome to carry on playing all these great themeparks with more to offer.
Why do people even waste their time arguing with haters. It isn't worth it. As per the OP, it is clear that his interests lie in PvE and his anger is borne out of the game's lack of end game PvE content. It is asinine for anyone to believe that a player did not like a game when they took 3 characters to level 45. I mean who does that? If you don't like a game, you are done with it before even taking 1 character to cap, much less 3. It is obvious that the anger here is directed toward the lack of PvE content at end game. Heck, I like the game and haven't even managed to make it past level 35 on 1 character. The difference between myself and the haters, however, is that I am able to recognize the game for what it is, and praise it for what it does well, instead of criticizing it and hating it because it doesn't fit my selfish personal ideals for how an MMORPG should be played.
Again, the game makes no apologies for being light on MMORPG features. It is a hybrid, action combat oriented MMORPG that utilizes some MMORPG features (questing, leveling) as a means to introduce a player to its combat and skills in preparation for the focus of the game which is the end game PvP arena. There is little question that the game's focus is on esports and its 1v1, 3v3 and tag PvP end game arena play. Yet, these nay-sayers continue to criticize the game for what it isn't, which is a full-featured MMORPG, and refuse to praise it for what it is, which is a hybrid, arcadey, action combat, MMO who's focus is on end game esport PvP competition. There is a reason that BnS is the fourth most popular MMORPG in Asia, yes even ahead of Black Dessert, and it has nothing to do with its PvE and everything to do with its end game esport PvP. Recognize it for what it is, not for what it isn't.
The rant against this game is really immature and coming from selfish entitled subsets of the MMO community that is unable to accept the fact that the MMORPG genre is big enough to house many different styles of MMORPG game play ranging anywhere on a spectrum from the very complicated, in-depth, full-featured MMORPG to a less complicated, light-featured, MMORPG that is able to focus on a specific feature of an MMORPG and do it really well, rather than trying to satisfy everyone and getting none of the features of an MMORPG done well.
Why is it that as varied as the MMORPG genre can be, the players themselves can't accept the fact that some MMORPGs can be crafting oriented, or exploration oriented, or featuring a horizontal progression, or a vertical progression, or raiding centric, or PvP centric, etc etc etc. Why must they all be graded on the same scale? With today's varied game play preferences in the MMORPG community, that is an impossibility. Players who are in agreement about BnS game play today, will be in disagreement about another future MMORPG's game play simply because it is impossible to satisfy every single player's preference as to how an MMORPG should play. Until we are able to understand, and accept, that an MMORPG can come in many shapes and colors, so long as it stays true to the MMORPG genre, we will continue to bicker back and forth between ourselves and never reach a consensus of satisfaction with the MMORPG genre.
Why do people even waste their time arguing with haters. It isn't worth it. As per the OP, it is clear that his interests lie in PvE and his anger is borne out of the game's lack of end game PvE content. It is asinine for anyone to believe that a player did not like a game when they took 3 characters to level 45. I mean who does that? If you don't like a game, you are done with it before even taking 1 character to cap, much less 3. It is obvious that the anger here is directed toward the lack of PvE content at end game. Hell, I like the game and haven't even managed to make it past level 35. The difference between myself and the haters, however, is that I am able to recognize the game for what it is, and praise it for what it does well, instead of criticizing it and hating it because it doesn't fit my selfish personal ideals for how an MMORPG should be played.
Again, the game makes no apologies for being light on MMORPG features. It is a hybrid, action combat oriented MMORPG that utilizes some MMORPG features (questing, leveling) as a means to introduce a player to its combat and skills in preparation for the focus of the game which is the end game PvP arena. There is little question that the game's focus is on esports and its 1v1, 3v3 and tag PvP end game arena play. Yet, these nay-sayers continue to criticize the game for what it isn't, which is a full-featured MMORPG, and refuse to praise it for what it is, which is a hybrid, arcadey, action combat, MMO who's focus is on end game esport PvP competition. There is a reason that BnS is the fourth most popular MMORPG in Asia, yes even ahead of Black Dessert, and it has nothing to do with its PvE and everything to do with its end game esport PvP. Recognize it for what it is, not for what it isn't.
The rant against this game is really immature and coming from selfish entitled subsets of the MMO community that is unable to accept the fact that the MMORPG genre is big enough to house many different styles of MMORPG game play ranging anywhere on a spectrum from the very complicated, in-depth, full-featured MMORPG to a less complicated, light-featured, MMORPG that is able to focus on a specific feature of an MMORPG and do it really well, rather than trying to satisfy everyone and getting none of the features of an MMORPG done well.
Why is it that as varied as the MMORPG genre can be, the players themselves can't accept the fact that some MMORPGs can be crafting oriented, or exploration oriented, or featuring a horizontal progression, or a vertical progression, or raiding centric, or PvP centric, etc etc etc. Why must they all be graded on the same scale? With today's varied game play preferences in the MMORPG community, that is an impossibility. Players who are in agreement about BnS game play today, will be in disagreement about another future MMORPG's game play simply because it is impossible to satisfy every single player's preference as to how an MMORPG should play. Until we are able to understand, and accept, that an MMORPG can come in many shapes and colors, so long as it stays true to the MMORPG genre, we will continue to bicker back and forth between ourselves and never reach a consensus of satisfaction with the MMORPG genre.
If someone has 3 x level 45 toons, then, what are the chances that once they levelled their first toon, they found no end game content worth doing, and decided to create another toon to do it all again, with the same end result. Personally i am impressed they even did it a third time as the levelling process in BnS is by all accounts, without variety. Whether the game thrives or not really depends on the end game content, to say that end game is PVP only, is a bit fail, you can't expect players to play the game as pve to max level and then miraculously transition to pvp only, as the majority of players out there aren't really interested in pvp except on a very casual basis, so all that happens is that you end up with the pve players leaving. Which inevitably would turn BnS into just another one of those niche pvp games, as without end game variety other than pvp, there just won't be all that much interest, something Zenimax discovered with TESO, if BnS does not make the effort to provide some degree of end game PVE giving players an alternative to being limited to PVP, then there is a significant chance that it will fail.
im not defending but 3x45 and he dont like this game hmmm, im playing 20 years games and i dont remember when last time any game catch my balls so hard to make 3x 45 Bullshit
I played every class 6/8 i don't remember anymore? in Swtor to the 30's and i think the game is VERY average at best.MOST games are easy to grab some levels,some get extremely tough to level up near max level but for the most part it is easy.
Another example is i played every single class in EQ2 up to very high levels but never really enjoyed the game that much only in the early days.Only until much later i played th SK last and realized i liked that class,so sometimes you have to grind out several classes and levels to finally find something you like. Now obviously some games are just so bad or have a design that does npot excite you at all,you would quit those in a heartbeat or within a few days.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If someone has 3 x level 45 toons, then, what are the chances that once they levelled their first toon, they found no end game content worth doing, and decided to create another toon to do it all again, with the same end result. Personally i am impressed they even did it a third time as the levelling process in BnS is by all accounts, without variety. Whether the game thrives or not really depends on the end game content, to say that end game is PVP only, is a bit fail, you can't expect players to play the game as pve to max level and then miraculously transition to pvp only, as the majority of players out there aren't really interested in pvp except on a very casual basis, so all that happens is that you end up with the pve players leaving. Which inevitably would turn BnS into just another one of those niche pvp games, as without end game variety other than pvp, there just won't be all that much interest, something Zenimax discovered with TESO, if BnS does not make the effort to provide some degree of end game PVE giving players an alternative to being limited to PVP, then there is a significant chance that it will fail.
In the interest of fairness, the version of BnS NA/EU players are playing right now is as the game was 4 years ago when it was initially released. As we can all recall, many Asian players during that time had the same impression of BnS that players in NA/EU are expressing today. Yet today BnS stands as the fourth most popular game in Asia with relatively no complaints because players have accepted BnS for what it is and what it does, and largely because what it is and what it does, it does very well. It is by all accounts the gold standard in esport game play of all MMORPG titles. In the months to come updated versions of BnS will be released that will expand its game play for both PvE and PvP players with the first expansion release due to be released in approximated one week. It's really all about doing a little research and seeing the big picture and refraining from shooting from the hip, without any insight or foresight of what has yet to come.
You may not see the value in these things and you should find another game that will make you happy.
<snip>
If it's all about the PVP, why even have the rest? You have not answered that question.
A fairly simple and straight forward story of revenge, a new character rolled and you start out with your basic attacks. As you level up you get new skills, you get skill points to put into a build, you get combo's that do different things. Stuns, roots, knockdowns, burst damage etc.
I think the very short levelling period of the game is nothing more than an extended tutorial, which essentially allows the player to learn their class, master the combo system and work out which builds work for them and which don't.
Given the combat system and skill points available at max level, having no levelling period and throwing everyone in at the deep end would simply result in people being owned in the arena because they'd have no frakking clue what they were doing.
You'll probably disagree but that's fine, it's your opinion and I have to respect that. If the game's not for you then so be it. It's just as OK for others to like it though and you need to accept that and not demand we justify it.
I quite enjoy the game and I don't see why I need to justify that to anyone. Each to their own and all that.
And please guys understand I am not a hater, really. I gave this game lots of chances and I really was expecting it to be good. I was a little worried because it's NCSoft and I know they are a p2w company. But I was expecting this game to be good. And I am not here to ofend anyone or do any kind of fight, it's just my opinion, if anyone love the game, etc it's ok, it's your opinion.
Can't wait to see Angry Joe's review of this game. It's going to be epic.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I suppose much of the irritation with the game is that it still doesn't address some of the massive gaps in the genre as a whole (virtual world risk vs reward MMO's, freedom etc). It does attempt to address combat, which is nice.
I think the frustration would be less if they emphasized that this is pretty much an arena PvP only MMO. So people that are done with linear quest hub no freedom themeparks don't wander in and get pissed (and write angry posts on MMORPG.com). Possibly advertise this to the single player console crowd a bit more.
I had no idea there were this many MMO'ers desperately looking for a PvP arena MMOlite game to warrant this many positive posts on the game. Kinda disheartening, as this is the opposite of what I think the genre needs.
I suppose much of the irritation with the game is that it still doesn't address some of the massive gaps in the genre as a whole (virtual world risk vs reward MMO's, freedom etc). It does attempt to address combat, which is nice.
I think the frustration would be less if they emphasized that this is pretty much an arena PvP only MMO. So people that are done with linear quest hub no freedom themeparks don't wander in and get pissed (and write angry posts on MMORPG.com). Possibly advertise this to the single player console crowd a bit more.
I had no idea there were this many MMO'ers desperately looking for a PvP arena MMOlite game to warrant this many positive posts on the game. Kinda disheartening, as this is the opposite of what I think the genre needs.
Except that there is no one "right thing" that the genre needs. The MMORPG genre is big enough and versatile enough to cater to many different game play preferences. Currently, there are so many different MMORPG players with so many differing ideas on what makes a good MMORPG, or how an MMORPG should be played, that there could never be a consensus regarding what the "genre needs." An argument could be made that the reason that the MMORPG has stagnated of late is because there isn't enough variety in the genre, and instead of focusing on certain aspects of a game (Ie., combat, crafting, exploration, PvP, etc) they try to do them all which in the end results in a game that is a jack of all poorly done features and a master of none.
MMORPG players are going to have to come to terms with the fact that there is nothing wrong with an MMORPG coming in many different shapes and colors so long as the genre stays true to the foundation of MMORPG game play. Until we are able to do that the genre will never get out of its current "bleh" state because unlike other video game genres, MMORPG game developers listen very closely, and are indeed beholden, to player input throughout the development process of an MMORPG.
Arena pvp in high levels deffinetely is balanced, arena pvp is the only reason why the game is a success in Korea, most of the people playing BnS play it for the arena pvp..
If you want Raids or gear based I have more stats so I win pvp (which is part of the reason why you would think pvp outside of arena is unbalanced) PLAY ANOTHER GAME!!! This one gives me what I want, their are 100 games trying to give you what you want.
Whine when games are identical and whine when they are not identical, logic.
I suppose much of the irritation with the game is that it still doesn't address some of the massive gaps in the genre as a whole (virtual world risk vs reward MMO's, freedom etc). It does attempt to address combat, which is nice.
I think the frustration would be less if they emphasized that this is pretty much an arena PvP only MMO. So people that are done with linear quest hub no freedom themeparks don't wander in and get pissed (and write angry posts on MMORPG.com). Possibly advertise this to the single player console crowd a bit more.
I had no idea there were this many MMO'ers desperately looking for a PvP arena MMOlite game to warrant this many positive posts on the game. Kinda disheartening, as this is the opposite of what I think the genre needs.
Maybe it's not "what the industry needs", but people are judging it too harshly based on that fact. If an MMO doesn't revolutionize everything, it's a 5.2? That's dumb.
I'm really enjoying the game. I wasn't "desperately looking for a PVP arena MMOlite game", but I found one and it's lots of fun to play.
I am, yes, looking for a great and rewarding open world sandbox MMO. I'm waiting on BDO but it's not going to be perfect.
When the perfect sandbox MMO comes out, pm me and I'm sure I'll play it and enjoy it. In the meantime, I do like playing MMOs and especially like PVP combat.
I haven't played an MMO for over a year, which is absolutely nutballs for me because I'm almost always playing one. There haven't been any worth playing, though. This one is worth playing and it's fun. I guess you could say that I've been desperate for a playable MMO.
I just plain like playing games online with people. Leveling was boring, but that's really nothing new in an MMO or even worth mentioning at this point. What MMO didn't have boring leveling?
Comments
I did not miss your point, I quoted it word for word. You complained that, once again I will quote you, "This game has 0 mechanics that we have come to expect from MMORPGs at this point" . I am not trying to split hairs, that statement is pretty clear. The game used different mechanics to achieve aspects of game play and you don't like them. You want change, get change and don't like the change. So you either didn't really want change in the first place, (this falls into the bitching on the internet just to be heard type of gamer) or the changes they made are not to your liking (find another game that will make you happy)
It is a pvp game, yes having a pvp endgame is actually different then most endgames out there. At its core B&S is nothing like WoW. The core of the game is the pvp and combat, that is the core. WoW end game is actually PvE raiding. Raids are your typical themepark endgame, if you haven't played one. Not every aspect of B&S is innovating. The linear quest and level progression if very themepark. But I do not think anybody has disputed that.
You are short sited if you think the 1v1 and 3v3 arena is the only combat open to you. I have been in fights with 20 people on each side, there are massively multiplayer fights out there. if you do not like pvp then this is just not the game for you. see above with the ... find another game that will make you happy.
The game is not the same as your typical mmo. The further you get into the content the harder your fights become, I made a point of killing all the bosses solo or when that proved to hard for me duo. Some players enjoy the weapon level ups so that you are not required to hunt down your bis as they tell you what it is. For pvp that is great, its less gear and more skill based to a point.. Some people like that flexibility of stacking your soul shields the way you want them with out the need to change the look you have cultivated for your avatar, this is basically the same as appearance gear imo, just done differently, Some people like that your skill point placement can actually change the way you play your character, they like tweaking the build on the fly, you just don't get that option in most games. You may not see the value in these things and you should find another game that will make you happy.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
This is where BnS fails. PVE exists totally separate from PVP, which is why I think it doesn't belong at all. Gear is even normalized in arenas, something the fanbase adores, and while I also like that concept from a PVP standpoint, it totally negates the concept of farming for gear. Other games do this way better, such as GW2. Your gear is normalized, making gear largely pointless, but the experience of actually getting the gear is simply fun and rewarding in its own right. This is not the case in BnS, as outside of the combat itself the PVE game is painfully boring.
So... if your argument is simply that some people like PVE, than the devs were just pandering to try to cash in on content locusts. Common, yet still scummy. And normally I wouldn't care at all about such business practices, and would just steer clear, but BnS is being praised around the net, and in this very thread, as some sort of second coming for MMOs that revolutionizes combat and turns the genre on it's head. I don't see it, I see a barebones PVE game holding back what could have been an amazing PVP game.
Pure PVP games are not MMOs, they are games like League of Legends, Call of Duty, etc. Hell, MMOs can even exist with PVP and PVE being totally separated and still feel like a complete experience on both ends. Look at Destiny, or even the much maligned WoW. PVP players and PVE players enjoy both.
All of that said, people liking the combat, art style, story, yada yada is all totally acceptable and fine. Though an honest discussion needs to be had about the quality of the product, because the devs will make no effort whatsoever to fix it if no one tells them it's broken (or in this case, not even there).
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Sure, crafting may not be intricate, but crafting as a mechanic is almost never good anyways. Push a button, make an item. The instances aren't anything special, but are fun thanks to the amazing combat. The upgrade system, I personally like because your gear grows with you as opposed to constantly replacing it. The OW-PVP objectives can be fun in small doses like pretty much every other themepark. The instanced PVP isn't anything special from a feature standpoint, but it's carried by the most skill based combat we've ever seen in an MMO.
Unlike most MMORPG's, the game is mechanically fun to play which goes a long way. How many players are there that care about PVE and PVP being integrated into one another? How many players are there that hate the PVE enough to quit? I'm just not so sure it's as big of a deal as people on this website seem to think it is. I don't feel like the game needs "fixed" as you say. I feel like it's fine. The game doesn't appeal to some players. That's okay. They're welcome to carry on playing all these great themeparks with more to offer.
Why do people even waste their time arguing with haters. It isn't worth it. As per the OP, it is clear that his interests lie in PvE and his anger is borne out of the game's lack of end game PvE content. It is asinine for anyone to believe that a player did not like a game when they took 3 characters to level 45. I mean who does that? If you don't like a game, you are done with it before even taking 1 character to cap, much less 3. It is obvious that the anger here is directed toward the lack of PvE content at end game. Heck, I like the game and haven't even managed to make it past level 35 on 1 character. The difference between myself and the haters, however, is that I am able to recognize the game for what it is, and praise it for what it does well, instead of criticizing it and hating it because it doesn't fit my selfish personal ideals for how an MMORPG should be played.
Again, the game makes no apologies for being light on MMORPG features. It is a hybrid, action combat oriented MMORPG that utilizes some MMORPG features (questing, leveling) as a means to introduce a player to its combat and skills in preparation for the focus of the game which is the end game PvP arena. There is little question that the game's focus is on esports and its 1v1, 3v3 and tag PvP end game arena play. Yet, these nay-sayers continue to criticize the game for what it isn't, which is a full-featured MMORPG, and refuse to praise it for what it is, which is a hybrid, arcadey, action combat, MMO who's focus is on end game esport PvP competition. There is a reason that BnS is the fourth most popular MMORPG in Asia, yes even ahead of Black Dessert, and it has nothing to do with its PvE and everything to do with its end game esport PvP. Recognize it for what it is, not for what it isn't.
The rant against this game is really immature and coming from selfish entitled subsets of the MMO community that is unable to accept the fact that the MMORPG genre is big enough to house many different styles of MMORPG game play ranging anywhere on a spectrum from the very complicated, in-depth, full-featured MMORPG to a less complicated, light-featured, MMORPG that is able to focus on a specific feature of an MMORPG and do it really well, rather than trying to satisfy everyone and getting none of the features of an MMORPG done well.
Why is it that as varied as the MMORPG genre can be, the players themselves can't accept the fact that some MMORPGs can be crafting oriented, or exploration oriented, or featuring a horizontal progression, or a vertical progression, or raiding centric, or PvP centric, etc etc etc. Why must they all be graded on the same scale? With today's varied game play preferences in the MMORPG community, that is an impossibility. Players who are in agreement about BnS game play today, will be in disagreement about another future MMORPG's game play simply because it is impossible to satisfy every single player's preference as to how an MMORPG should play. Until we are able to understand, and accept, that an MMORPG can come in many shapes and colors, so long as it stays true to the MMORPG genre, we will continue to bicker back and forth between ourselves and never reach a consensus of satisfaction with the MMORPG genre.
Personally i am impressed they even did it a third time as the levelling process in BnS is by all accounts, without variety.
Whether the game thrives or not really depends on the end game content, to say that end game is PVP only, is a bit fail, you can't expect players to play the game as pve to max level and then miraculously transition to pvp only, as the majority of players out there aren't really interested in pvp except on a very casual basis, so all that happens is that you end up with the pve players leaving.
Which inevitably would turn BnS into just another one of those niche pvp games, as without end game variety other than pvp, there just won't be all that much interest, something Zenimax discovered with TESO, if BnS does not make the effort to provide some degree of end game PVE giving players an alternative to being limited to PVP, then there is a significant chance that it will fail.
Another example is i played every single class in EQ2 up to very high levels but never really enjoyed the game that much only in the early days.Only until much later i played th SK last and realized i liked that class,so sometimes you have to grind out several classes and levels to finally find something you like.
Now obviously some games are just so bad or have a design that does npot excite you at all,you would quit those in a heartbeat or within a few days.
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In the interest of fairness, the version of BnS NA/EU players are playing right now is as the game was 4 years ago when it was initially released. As we can all recall, many Asian players during that time had the same impression of BnS that players in NA/EU are expressing today. Yet today BnS stands as the fourth most popular game in Asia with relatively no complaints because players have accepted BnS for what it is and what it does, and largely because what it is and what it does, it does very well. It is by all accounts the gold standard in esport game play of all MMORPG titles. In the months to come updated versions of BnS will be released that will expand its game play for both PvE and PvP players with the first expansion release due to be released in approximated one week. It's really all about doing a little research and seeing the big picture and refraining from shooting from the hip, without any insight or foresight of what has yet to come.
I think the very short levelling period of the game is nothing more than an extended tutorial, which essentially allows the player to learn their class, master the combo system and work out which builds work for them and which don't.
Given the combat system and skill points available at max level, having no levelling period and throwing everyone in at the deep end would simply result in people being owned in the arena because they'd have no frakking clue what they were doing.
You'll probably disagree but that's fine, it's your opinion and I have to respect that. If the game's not for you then so be it. It's just as OK for others to like it though and you need to accept that and not demand we justify it.
I quite enjoy the game and I don't see why I need to justify that to anyone. Each to their own and all that.
Not to mention you have to pay for a slot for the third if you're playing them on the same account.
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I think the frustration would be less if they emphasized that this is pretty much an arena PvP only MMO. So people that are done with linear quest hub no freedom themeparks don't wander in and get pissed (and write angry posts on MMORPG.com). Possibly advertise this to the single player console crowd a bit more.
I had no idea there were this many MMO'ers desperately looking for a PvP arena MMOlite game to warrant this many positive posts on the game. Kinda disheartening, as this is the opposite of what I think the genre needs.
Except that there is no one "right thing" that the genre needs. The MMORPG genre is big enough and versatile enough to cater to many different game play preferences. Currently, there are so many different MMORPG players with so many differing ideas on what makes a good MMORPG, or how an MMORPG should be played, that there could never be a consensus regarding what the "genre needs." An argument could be made that the reason that the MMORPG has stagnated of late is because there isn't enough variety in the genre, and instead of focusing on certain aspects of a game (Ie., combat, crafting, exploration, PvP, etc) they try to do them all which in the end results in a game that is a jack of all poorly done features and a master of none.
MMORPG players are going to have to come to terms with the fact that there is nothing wrong with an MMORPG coming in many different shapes and colors so long as the genre stays true to the foundation of MMORPG game play. Until we are able to do that the genre will never get out of its current "bleh" state because unlike other video game genres, MMORPG game developers listen very closely, and are indeed beholden, to player input throughout the development process of an MMORPG.
If you want Raids or gear based I have more stats so I win pvp (which is part of the reason why you would think pvp outside of arena is unbalanced) PLAY ANOTHER GAME!!! This one gives me what I want, their are 100 games trying to give you what you want.
Whine when games are identical and whine when they are not identical, logic.
I'm really enjoying the game. I wasn't "desperately looking for a PVP arena MMOlite game", but I found one and it's lots of fun to play.
I am, yes, looking for a great and rewarding open world sandbox MMO. I'm waiting on BDO but it's not going to be perfect.
When the perfect sandbox MMO comes out, pm me and I'm sure I'll play it and enjoy it. In the meantime, I do like playing MMOs and especially like PVP combat.
I haven't played an MMO for over a year, which is absolutely nutballs for me because I'm almost always playing one. There haven't been any worth playing, though. This one is worth playing and it's fun. I guess you could say that I've been desperate for a playable MMO.
I just plain like playing games online with people. Leveling was boring, but that's really nothing new in an MMO or even worth mentioning at this point. What MMO didn't have boring leveling?