The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
The initial game almost destroyed the company and the rebuilt version has subscriber numbers lower than SWTOR before it went f2p and inline with what FFXI had at peak, talking of which they actually cannibalized players from XI who were already paying them money and moved them to XIV to pay less money... so in real terms the game was an even bigger failure since it damaged a title they were already running and making money off. <500k subs are not good numbers when you spend hundreds of millions of dollars.
It will retain a subscription just as XI has and they will mislead with numbers but it's still one of the biggest fails of the entire genre to date. This is why the game has the single biggest cash shop in any p2p mmo.
I can't think of another game that did this much damage to a massive company, was remade and even then still managed very average numbers.
This thread goes to show that there really aren't many WoW clones, games mostly feature many differences. Now whether those differences appeal to the player is to be debated...
What this thread shows is how many people can't read into the deeper meanings behind words and phrases, they take everything very literally, failing to understand the message sender.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Since i have not been remotely interested in one single game since and as of Wow's release,i would say they all fail the GENRE.I don't care about money made,all these games are getting fast cash grabs then become ghost towns.
Rift,SWTOR,AION, to name a few,even the game that really Wow copied "EQ2" is near dead.All of these games turned to cash shops to TRY and survive.In reality they are not Wow clones they are EQ2 clones,i have no doubt what so ever that Blizzard staff were watching EQ2 closely and made sure to copy it only with crappier graphics and no housing because ,well Blizzard is a cheap mofo.
Every single game that is a linear questing game giving xp for questing is an EQ2 /Wow clone.Play follow the leader in what is SUPPOSE to be YOUR game,YOUR adventure in an open world,,guess those two developers missed the memo on what a mmorpg should be like.
I can understand that you want to speak about how quickly aion grabbed everyone's money without ever mention how much money they earn. After all a 7 year old game that still earned $15M during the last quarter is such a quick cash grab.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
WoW clones (most base system directly from WoW or iteration off of WoW): Rift, SWtOR
Neither is a failure and both have earned their investors their money back. Sure, one didn't end up as big as its fast start led one to believe and the other didn't become the next WoW its investors wanted, but both are profitable (most likely)
Wildstar is not a WoW clone. Stylized graphics + theme park =/= WoW clone. Combat is different. Crafting is different. AMP system is different enough from the standard three tree system that is one of the major signals of WoW clone (even if WoW doesnt have it anymore).
Yes it pretty much does. Any game that uses WOW as it's base is basically emulation. Themepark just became the Genre standard for mainstream MMORPG. The trope was created by WoW. It's why you can pick up almost any MMORPG and it feels like WOW.
It would be like saying if a band started a new X music with 4 band members. 10 bands come out start playing music X except for they may have a female lead or swap out an intrument. They're emulating them.
If I play a MMORPG and it feels like I am playing WOW or WOW with a twist it's a WOW clone IMO.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
As usual, you're talking out of your ass when it comes to FFXIV.
WoW clones (most base system directly from WoW or iteration off of WoW): Rift, SWtOR
Neither is a failure and both have earned their investors their money back. Sure, one didn't end up as big as its fast start led one to believe and the other didn't become the next WoW its investors wanted, but both are profitable (most likely)
Wildstar is not a WoW clone. Stylized graphics + theme park =/= WoW clone. Combat is different. Crafting is different. AMP system is different enough from the standard three tree system that is one of the major signals of WoW clone (even if WoW doesnt have it anymore).
Yes it pretty much does. Any game that uses WOW as it's base is basically emulation. Themepark just became the Genre standard for mainstream MMORPG. The trope was created by WoW. It's why you can pick up almost any MMORPG and it feels like WOW.
It would be like saying if a band started a new X music with 4 band members. 10 bands come out start playing music X except for they may have a female lead or swap out an intrument. They're emulating them.
If I play a MMORPG and it feels like I am playing WOW or WOW with a twist it's a WOW clone IMO.
Wildstar sure doesnt feel like WoW to me. LOTRO doesnt feel like WoW to me. GW2 doesnt feel like WoW to me. Rift and SWTOR, on the other hand, do. TERA is a prime example of a themepark that doesnt feel like WoW.
Also, WoW didnt create the themepark. EQ2 was the first game to fit fully into the themepark genre and it released (slightly) before WoW.
Rift and Aion was presented as wow killers mostly and failed
Before the launch of SWTOR, EA CEO back then said "we will kill WoW" and by february 2012 they had 3.5 million purchase +subscribers and he said it again : "we are on the verge of taking the beast down". What people don't try to understand : WoW has become an idea, you can not kill an idea.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
The number of games that have been able to sustain over 500k subs totals 1. WoW The number of games that have been able to sustain over 400k subs totals 3. WoW. EQ, and EvE No game that I'm aware of has had 400k+ subs for an extended period of time outside of its first 6 months of existence.
Of course with freemium games and the fact no one releases sub numbers (Im pretty sure the source for FFXIV being under 400k subs is your ass) its tough to tell, I wouldnt be surprised if SWTOR or FFXIV have 400k subs.
It would be very shocking to find out that SWtOR and FFXIV arent #2 and 3 in sub numbers (in either order), so yes, FFXIV is one of the market leaders. And would be in any era of MMORPGs.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
As usual, you're talking out of your ass when it comes to FFXIV.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
FFXIV has around 500k in japan, US, europe and Canada. Counting Korea and China many more 100's of K than that.
People have scanned lodestone and found 300-500k "characters", you can have many characters per account so the real numbers of subs is going to be around 1/2 to 2/3 of that number.
FFXIV peaked at 630k subs in the first month and they refused to give subscriber numbers since, they did however state there was a 60% drop in subs (40% retention). If it was growing or doing well they would be telling us the numbers, they point blank refuse to give investors numbers at all.
It's also failed terribly in Korea and China by their own admission.
It's painful watching you all argue semantics. If the game had a AAA budget and plays like WoW but didn't make a dent in it's subscribers, it was a failure. Some games that come to mind are Warhammer Online, Everquest 2, ArcheAge, Aion, Neverwinter Online, Lord of the Rings Online, TERA, SWTOR, Age of Conan.
I agree with Thebeasttt, these games have targeted the audience of WoW and tried to follow closely the path to success they took, that is a clone or at least an attempt to mimic something. There is a list of games; Aion, Wildstar, LoTR, Warhammer. You cant call any of them success stories considering some have fallen off the face of existence until topics like this come up, some were forced to go F2P to survive and others shut down.
I wouldn't call EQ2, AoC or FF14 clones for the simple fact that one is a pvp game, one is primarily a story and the other came before WoW. I think the main thing that causes these failures is the formula hasn't changed at all. Not that the graphics are similar, has quests or mobs. Its the path from 1-cap hasn't diverted from the path its been on since eq1 and the game at the the end is the same as it was back then also.
Based on the definition given, swtor has easily got to be no1. It started off o.k. for the first 2 months then tanked so badly(and cost so much) that ea took a bit of a hit to their share prices I seem to remember and despite what the fanboys say has never lived up to it's expectations(possibly not even to its investment). Is that not the very definition of you failure?
Of course you could say something similar about swg and its nge.
The single biggest wow clone failure so far has to be FFXIV, purely on the damage it did to the company, the final fantasy brand and losing some amazing staff.
I knew you'd show up, and I knew which game you would talk about. Am I clairvoyant? Probably not.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
As usual, you're talking out of your ass when it comes to FFXIV.
Not at all, you just don't like the truth. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like the truth just fine. The problem is that your vision of the truth is clouded by your utter disdain for FFXIV. You have no idea how much it cost to make. It has not flopped. It has been redeemed, and also redeemed SE's commitment to their games. Low sub numbers relative to what MMO? WoW? 300k subscribers (your approximate number) after a year is a pretty substantial amount.
It hasn't failed whatsoever. I don't know why I bothered responding at all, because I could take you to the SE server room, and query the database for the number of subscribed accounts and you'd tell me 50% of them were RMT. You are completely blinded by your bias. Anybody who has seen you post about FFXIV knows you bandy around with your "FFXIV is a total failure" rhetoric while providing either extremely shaky evidence or none at all.
I'm not a fan of XIV, but I don't post comparisons about it being bad every single time I post. It is amazing and somewhat pathetic that someone could hold such a grudge against a game.
Perfect World is the only game I've played that could definitely be considered an AAA wow clone, but it's not failed.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
So many people mentioning Aion... do people not realize that Aion was THE biggest MMO out in the east for the longest time until Blade and Soul finally took it down? Its a joke to call it a failure if you are looking at it in a global scale... not to mention if you consider Aion a WoW clone given how different it is on a lot of its design philosophy, you should be calling WoW an Everquest clone since it ripped off a LOT more from Everquest then Aion did from WoW (which btw, is NOT a bad thing). Aion's design philosophy was why it didn't pick up in the west while it was wildly popular in the east.
WoW clones (most base system directly from WoW or iteration off of WoW): Rift, SWtOR
Neither is a failure and both have earned their investors their money back. Sure, one didn't end up as big as its fast start led one to believe and the other didn't become the next WoW its investors wanted, but both are profitable (most likely)
Wildstar is not a WoW clone. Stylized graphics + theme park =/= WoW clone. Combat is different. Crafting is different. AMP system is different enough from the standard three tree system that is one of the major signals of WoW clone (even if WoW doesnt have it anymore).
Any game that uses WOW as it's base is basically emulation.
I agree with this. And Rift and SWTOR are the only games that Ive played that use WoW as its base.
A game like Wildstar isnt modified WoW combat + modified WoW crafting system + modified WoW talent tree system. Rift is. SWtOR is. (the crafting seems a little different at first, but it is still very much the same gather + click + no fail combine out of a set of trainer bought recipes)
Some games are also lazy with copying WoW's UI layout, colored system of item tiers, etc. I'll agree most games post WoW have a heavy WoW influence, but I think there is a big difference between taking inspiration like FFXIV: ARR did and outright using WoW's skeleton as the game's skeleton like SWTOR and Rift did.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
There has never been a clone of WOW, clone means identical. Now if you can describe the features of WOW that you think have been copied then list them.
Then you've never seen Alganon at launch. A clone right down to the interface.
Comments
The initial game almost destroyed the company and the rebuilt version has subscriber numbers lower than SWTOR before it went f2p and inline with what FFXI had at peak, talking of which they actually cannibalized players from XI who were already paying them money and moved them to XIV to pay less money... so in real terms the game was an even bigger failure since it damaged a title they were already running and making money off. <500k subs are not good numbers when you spend hundreds of millions of dollars.
It will retain a subscription just as XI has and they will mislead with numbers but it's still one of the biggest fails of the entire genre to date. This is why the game has the single biggest cash shop in any p2p mmo.
I can't think of another game that did this much damage to a massive company, was remade and even then still managed very average numbers.
I think it's intentional.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So, there you have it.
It would be like saying if a band started a new X music with 4 band members. 10 bands come out start playing music X except for they may have a female lead or swap out an intrument. They're emulating them.
If I play a MMORPG and it feels like I am playing WOW or WOW with a twist it's a WOW clone IMO.
Well it's a topic about failed wow clones, that's XIV and as I said it's the biggest flop there has been given how much it cost to make and remake and how much damage it did to Square Enix. The game nearly bankrupted them, it dropped profit projections 91% following the games release and almost all the blame was put onto XIV.
Even ARR has low subscriber numbers compared to market leaders and given the things I mentioned above that's not good. The only saving grace it has is the cash shop. People laugh at wow for having 5 million subscribers, XIV doesn't even have 1/10th of that at it's best.
The best sub numbers ARR ever had was 630k and Square showed off about it, SWTOR peaked at 1.3 million subs and when they hit 400k they were considered a failure and went f2p. XIV has been under 400k for a long while now.
It's as fail as you can get, the only reason it's still sub based is because they prefer to make less money over being seen a failure, Japanese pride. Same applies to XI, both of these games have very low player numbers and many deserted servers but shame stops them doing anything about it.
If you don't like me telling it like it is then add me to ignore.
Also, WoW didnt create the themepark. EQ2 was the first game to fit fully into the themepark genre and it released (slightly) before WoW.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The number of games that have been able to sustain over 500k subs totals 1. WoW
The number of games that have been able to sustain over 400k subs totals 3. WoW. EQ, and EvE
No game that I'm aware of has had 400k+ subs for an extended period of time outside of its first 6 months of existence.
Of course with freemium games and the fact no one releases sub numbers (Im pretty sure the source for FFXIV being under 400k subs is your ass) its tough to tell, I wouldnt be surprised if SWTOR or FFXIV have 400k subs.
It would be very shocking to find out that SWtOR and FFXIV arent #2 and 3 in sub numbers (in either order), so yes, FFXIV is one of the market leaders. And would be in any era of MMORPGs.
People have scanned lodestone and found 300-500k "characters", you can have many characters per account so the real numbers of subs is going to be around 1/2 to 2/3 of that number.
FFXIV peaked at 630k subs in the first month and they refused to give subscriber numbers since, they did however state there was a 60% drop in subs (40% retention). If it was growing or doing well they would be telling us the numbers, they point blank refuse to give investors numbers at all.
It's also failed terribly in Korea and China by their own admission.
Just to name a few.
I agree with Thebeasttt, these games have targeted the audience of WoW and tried to follow closely the path to success they took, that is a clone or at least an attempt to mimic something. There is a list of games; Aion, Wildstar, LoTR, Warhammer. You cant call any of them success stories considering some have fallen off the face of existence until topics like this come up, some were forced to go F2P to survive and others shut down.
I wouldn't call EQ2, AoC or FF14 clones for the simple fact that one is a pvp game, one is primarily a story and the other came before WoW. I think the main thing that causes these failures is the formula hasn't changed at all. Not that the graphics are similar, has quests or mobs. Its the path from 1-cap hasn't diverted from the path its been on since eq1 and the game at the the end is the same as it was back then also.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Of course you could say something similar about swg and its nge.
Just google "alganon" on google and see the "Images" tab.
Game is pretty fun though, sadly I am burnt out on MMOs as of lately.
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A game like Wildstar isnt modified WoW combat + modified WoW crafting system + modified WoW talent tree system. Rift is. SWtOR is. (the crafting seems a little different at first, but it is still very much the same gather + click + no fail combine out of a set of trainer bought recipes)
Some games are also lazy with copying WoW's UI layout, colored system of item tiers, etc. I'll agree most games post WoW have a heavy WoW influence, but I think there is a big difference between taking inspiration like FFXIV: ARR did and outright using WoW's skeleton as the game's skeleton like SWTOR and Rift did.