So far Darkfall Online has come the closest to hardcore sandbox MMORPG, and doing it right. The first one mind you, not the second one. 10,000 players in one server with minimal lag (after launch), HUGE open world, great combat system that took years to master, a mix of FPS/TPS, ships/mounts, bank system, FFAPVP, karma system, subscription based, NOT P2W - you had to farm and grind all the good stuff by yourself, real alliances and wars formed by people without any help from the devs, and minimal questing with maximum player interaction. It really felt like a world created BY the players, except no worldbuilding. The only bad points where a pretty old-school inventory and meh graphics, although this didn't detract me at all since it actually felt like a real life world for the FIRST TIME since Ultima Online. ........
Seriously, I am shocked the MMORPG genre has progressed so poorly.
Yup, the original Darkfall, which by all accounts was a proper follow-up to the first generation of mmorpgs, was the last real attempt at a sandbox that would/could have worked. Its a shame its creators left early, the game was rushed out, and the only people who would touch it with a ten foot pole (for fear of gear loss/griefers) were the kind of people who cared more about hacking/macroing. its failure was the failure of the mmorpg genre to evolve. Saddest part of original darkfall was that it was a pve players paradise so long as you got over the fact that you might have to relocate often, bank often, and deal with loss...ignoring the fact that 95% of the game hacked and macroed their way through the game.
Sandbox today, like AA, isn't really a sandbox, just some open ended activities that WOULD fit in a real sandbox...or a structured themepark with a few "sandbox" mini games that are over glorified resource nodes you place rather than find.
I whole heartedly think that if DF launched in 2001 rather than 7 years late it would have been on the level of ultima online as a long term powerhouse and we would see more real sandboxes...granted the DF game had lots of sand removed due to taking too long ect.
This game BDO, looks like more of the same, some solid screen shot graphics, a awesome character customization system that boils down to "how big do you want your character to look in armor"
Really I still root for this genre, but reality has set in long ago watching some quality themeparks struggle/shut down and watching any attempt to properly evolve mmorpgs shot down for trying..this game and AA is the result of people begging for sandboxes because its cool but ignoring/hating actual sandboxes that might have a griefer harass you or you precious items lost.
I honestly think that if EQN actually exists and is going to be launched that its the ONLY hope left for at least western style mmorpgs. I'm actually convinced that game is in the grave or daybreak is trying to sell it, and have little hope it isn't bog-standard themepark.
This game is the big hype though, that's how dire things are in mmorpg land...its a wonder that this site needs to resort to single player games better discussed on steam...this is it the big hype game for early 2016? Oh and Blade and Soul that 5 year old game that just got here? Sad times for mmorpg fans indeed.
This is like one of the most backwards comments I have read regarding this game. It actually is grind heavy. The basic start and levels introduce you in a way that most current MMO gamers are used too. After that though later levels are either all grinding or PVP. I personally am a grinder. I can not stand run here do this, run there do that, postal quests and quest hubs. At least I do not like it as the main PVE focus.
I find it very interesting that you say you tried it for 30 minutes and tossed it aside yet you say you're a grind heavy individual. Very opposite of what someone who is into grinding would do. Definitely what I see with the common theme park casual crowd though.
The reason I tossed it aside was because of the terrible UI for one, and the same old start and progression/questing you would find in 99% of all mmos these days. I assumed that is going to be the entire game. Like I mentioned in my post, I could be wrong and the game might change, that is also why I highlighted that I only played about 30 minutes to an hour. Like I also mentioned, I absolutely detest quest grinding and that's all that was happening in the beginning. I'm not going to slog through the game hoping it changes unless someone tells me when it changes and how, like you did. That's all the game gave me to go on, the postal quest types being the main pve focus and that is why I stopped.
If the game gave me a quest to go kill 50 monsters immediately with a small snippet of story or an instanced dungeon or anything remotely similar then threw me into the open world I would have had a better idea of what to expect after the tutorial.
I will try it again tomorrow or at some other point if I get the chance and see exactly when the game becomes more of a game and less of a to-do list of fetch quests.
You would think that being a grinder, one would have a little more perseverance.
I'm playing Warframe pretty regularly for the past several years, I'm
WELL accustomed to grinding, the difference is you actually get to play
that game compared to clicking through quest boxes to receive another
quest that's going to be finished in about a minute tops. I started on
MMOs back in the early 90s so I do know about grind, patience, etc
etc... But I can not stand quest grinding what-so-ever, and that's what most MMOs these days are, hundreds or thousands of mini pointless quests.
Like I said, I will try it out again and hopefully get past the crappy quests. I just hope they don't last until end game. There are a lot of mechanics I've read about that are very interesting to me so I am still hopeful about the game.
I know the game is not for everyone, but I just want to drop a few things that might help.
I tried all the classes and until I played the warrior I was banging my head against the wall. Literally is the only class I enjoy and took a while to find combos that were effective and enjoyable. Created a couple of warriors so I could use the points on different skills so I finally made a third that I'm having a blast with.
When I started the game, graphics were orange and horrible! I had to go to settings, turn off graphics filters and players lanterns. It makes everything orange. After that I could see the nice graphics the game has, before that I was like WTF!!
The caveat is, I'm not a PvP player. So no end game for me, but I also love crafting and selling goods. This is where I'm having a blast.
I have to agree that if you love a well presented story, well.. Bioware is the keyword
I know the game is not for everyone, but I just want to drop a few things that might help.
I tried all the classes and until I played the warrior I was banging my head against the wall. Literally is the only class I enjoy and took a while to find combos that were effective and enjoyable. Created a couple of warriors so I could use the points on different skills so I finally made a third that I'm having a blast with.
When I started the game, graphics were orange and horrible! I had to go to settings, turn off graphics filters and players lanterns. It makes everything orange. After that I could see the nice graphics the game has, before that I was like WTF!!
The caveat is, I'm not a PvP player. So no end game for me, but I also love crafting and selling goods. This is where I'm having a blast.
I have to agree that if you love a well presented story, well.. Bioware is the keyword
Valk is like a warrior. Very fun to play. Ranger is a bit difficult at first but at around level 10 it gets better.
Yeah, warrior is great though. I like my ranger best now that she is 12 since getting some fancy moves, evasive shot make her untouchable when used right.
I think you will find endgame in other areas which will be more rewarding than stupid system they have right now. (my biggest gripe at the moment is how shitty the PvP is going to be for soloist and the ones that want the hunt)
PvP has no rewards at all. I like the karma system but just deplore the flagging system and the lack of rewards.
I really appreciate snagging a key from here so I could put a solid chunk of time into the game for free. I was really hoping this would be AA done right, but it isn't.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I snagged a key from here as well. I told a friend of mine that a new grindy asian MMORPG would be coming out later this month and he was all over the place telling me about how cool ninja looks and so on. So I had to check it out for myself and therefore had no requirements at all when starting it up the first time.
I do think that the character creation is really pretty and even the overall graphics would be cool if it wasn't for all the texture flickering. It is damn pretty when not moving though. (my specs are an OC 3570k, 8 gb ram, ssds and 980 TI)
I do not even mind grinding the f*** out of mobs the whole day. Spell effects for the wizard who I tried were really cool and felt powerful on impact.
The biggest reasons for me why I won't even buy the 30€ version of the game is the lack in endgame PvE content, not being sure what happens to the ingame shop in 2 months AND the lack of visible item progression. I just can'T stand games that let you play as a beggar wrapped in robes for 50 lvls without any remarkable change in equipmetn visuals. Sure you could toss a bunch of money into a costume, that everyone and theirs wifes will be using. So thanks for the insight using the beta key but I ll keep waiting for ... I dont even know.. Sometimes it seems the MMORPG genre is dying a really slow and painful death.
Some unsorted thoughts after fiddling with the beta:
I tried two classes and while i basicly like alot about the game, i couldn't get into the combat. It felt clumsy and unintuitive to me. I was sort of overwhelmed with the skills scattered allover various key-combos. While in other games combat usually works on muscle memory only, in BD i constantly had to "think" what move to do next and what button/mouse combos to press. My attacks were either similar looking slashes or similar looking ranged attacks, what didn't help me to really distinguish one skills from another. But then the first mobs to kill died from one or two shots, so there wasn't really a deeper combat "experience" to make early on.
I got used to the UI after a while and it didn't bother me. The function to lock/unlock the cursor was something i have seen before and its not too bad. After some adjusting of on-screen elements, there was enough space left on the screen to have a free view on the game without a ton of UI overlays in my face. 21:9 resolution helped with the clutter here. I had a problem with the camera distance tough and found it generally lacking at default settings, as just everything was way too close up and too big on my screen. Other players, NPCs in dialogues and also my own character. I need more FOV and a further away perspective on everything and will do some more testing on that tonight.
No visual character progress in terms of gear is literally a slap in the face. This alone is enough reason why this game should not be called a "R"PG.
I'm sure there are many interesting systems later on in the game. Like the whole crafting, farming/workers or siege aspect which altogether i would love to figure out.
I'll keep following the game, as after all there seems to be a good title hidden behind a small learning curve that i just couldn't yet take in my short sessions of beta playing.
Trying to read up on all the stuff in this game is giving me a headache. It's good that there are a ton of things to do, they all just seem so foreign. Like don't pick the wrong skills as you level or you are going to spend real money to reset them. Overwhelmed is where I'm at right now.
I do think I'm going to preorder though. I'm pretty sure there is a good game through all the odd systems, once I get a handle on them. I have no idea how people able to write off the game without learning any of the systems. Playing for a couple days, without looking through the countless guides out there, is not going to give you enough info to decide anything about the game.
+Graphics +Character Creation +Housing - instanced but at the same time in the normal game world, very cool! +Crafting - Crafting is great in this game, not sure on it's long-term effectiveness though. +Nodes/Contribution - Adds some strategy to the mix +NPC/Conversation/Knowledge system - Adds a lot of depth +Optional Questing +Huge Open World, You can go off in one direction and just explore and best of all the game rewards you. There are so many huge areas in the game that have little to no players or enemies, you feel really feel like you're lost in the wilderness. +No Fast Travel +Taming Horses +Day/Night System / Weather
Things I don't like:
-Combat feels strange, It's getting better as I start to know my skills, but it feels spammy to me right now. -The Main Narrative isn't too interesting. -Grindy both in a good way and bad way -The need for potions is too prevalent. I drink like 200 mana pots in a grind session.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Just to point out, I called this as a piece of crap on here way back in May of 2013. Been warning since the beginning that the hype was mostly from so called reviewers and so called fanbois that are actually paid to hype the game. There is an entire industry now inside gaming sites paid to lie to you. NEVER buy the hype.
Just to point out, I called this as a piece of crap on here way back in May of 2013. Been warning since the beginning that the hype was mostly from so called reviewers and so called fanbois that are actually paid to hype the game. There is an entire industry now inside gaming sites paid to lie to you. NEVER buy the hype.
I'm enjoying it. Been playing a wizard this beta and had a blast pissing off large groups of mobs and going through combos to destroy them. Horse (donkey) riding gives me some grief trying to find my mount and select it to get on it plus a few glitches or bad cameras here or there but again I rather enjoy it. Sorry you hate it so much
Just to point out, I called this as a piece of crap on here way back in May of 2013. Been warning since the beginning that the hype was mostly from so called reviewers and so called fanbois that are actually paid to hype the game. There is an entire industry now inside gaming sites paid to lie to you. NEVER buy the hype.
I'm enjoying it. Been playing a wizard this beta and had a blast pissing off large groups of mobs and going through combos to destroy them. Horse (donkey) riding gives me some grief trying to find my mount and select it to get on it plus a few glitches or bad cameras here or there but again I rather enjoy it. Sorry you hate it so much
Your donkey is on the map. Right click on its icon and then "T" to run to it or just follow the arrows... I do that a lot since I tend to leave it in safe spot and my grinding takes me away from it quite a bit
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Just to point out, I called this as a piece of crap on here way back in May of 2013. Been warning since the beginning that the hype was mostly from so called reviewers and so called fanbois that are actually paid to hype the game. There is an entire industry now inside gaming sites paid to lie to you. NEVER buy the hype.
I'm enjoying it. Been playing a wizard this beta and had a blast pissing off large groups of mobs and going through combos to destroy them. Horse (donkey) riding gives me some grief trying to find my mount and select it to get on it plus a few glitches or bad cameras here or there but again I rather enjoy it. Sorry you hate it so much
Your donkey is on the map. Right click on its icon and then "T" to run to it or just follow the arrows... I do that a lot since I tend to leave it in safe spot and my grinding takes me away from it quite a bit
Iselin you have just earned yourself free Haagen Dazs whenever you are in London. If you don't like ice cream then perhaps a beer or 2 would suffice? lol
Just to point out, I called this as a piece of crap on here way back in May of 2013. Been warning since the beginning that the hype was mostly from so called reviewers and so called fanbois that are actually paid to hype the game. There is an entire industry now inside gaming sites paid to lie to you. NEVER buy the hype.
It goes both ways, my friend.
There is an entire industry of shills and haters paid to try and kill a game as well.
Comments
Yup, the original Darkfall, which by all accounts was a proper follow-up to the first generation of mmorpgs, was the last real attempt at a sandbox that would/could have worked. Its a shame its creators left early, the game was rushed out, and the only people who would touch it with a ten foot pole (for fear of gear loss/griefers) were the kind of people who cared more about hacking/macroing. its failure was the failure of the mmorpg genre to evolve. Saddest part of original darkfall was that it was a pve players paradise so long as you got over the fact that you might have to relocate often, bank often, and deal with loss...ignoring the fact that 95% of the game hacked and macroed their way through the game.
Sandbox today, like AA, isn't really a sandbox, just some open ended activities that WOULD fit in a real sandbox...or a structured themepark with a few "sandbox" mini games that are over glorified resource nodes you place rather than find.
I whole heartedly think that if DF launched in 2001 rather than 7 years late it would have been on the level of ultima online as a long term powerhouse and we would see more real sandboxes...granted the DF game had lots of sand removed due to taking too long ect.
This game BDO, looks like more of the same, some solid screen shot graphics, a awesome character customization system that boils down to "how big do you want your character to look in armor"
Really I still root for this genre, but reality has set in long ago watching some quality themeparks struggle/shut down and watching any attempt to properly evolve mmorpgs shot down for trying..this game and AA is the result of people begging for sandboxes because its cool but ignoring/hating actual sandboxes that might have a griefer harass you or you precious items lost.
I honestly think that if EQN actually exists and is going to be launched that its the ONLY hope left for at least western style mmorpgs. I'm actually convinced that game is in the grave or daybreak is trying to sell it, and have little hope it isn't bog-standard themepark.
This game is the big hype though, that's how dire things are in mmorpg land...its a wonder that this site needs to resort to single player games better discussed on steam...this is it the big hype game for early 2016? Oh and Blade and Soul that 5 year old game that just got here? Sad times for mmorpg fans indeed.
If the game gave me a quest to go kill 50 monsters immediately with a small snippet of story or an instanced dungeon or anything remotely similar then threw me into the open world I would have had a better idea of what to expect after the tutorial.
I will try it again tomorrow or at some other point if I get the chance and see exactly when the game becomes more of a game and less of a to-do list of fetch quests.
I'm playing Warframe pretty regularly for the past several years, I'm WELL accustomed to grinding, the difference is you actually get to play that game compared to clicking through quest boxes to receive another quest that's going to be finished in about a minute tops. I started on MMOs back in the early 90s so I do know about grind, patience, etc etc... But I can not stand quest grinding what-so-ever, and that's what most MMOs these days are, hundreds or thousands of mini pointless quests.
Like I said, I will try it out again and hopefully get past the crappy quests. I just hope they don't last until end game. There are a lot of mechanics I've read about that are very interesting to me so I am still hopeful about the game.
I know the game is not for everyone, but I just want to drop a few things that might help.
I tried all the classes and until I played the warrior I was banging my head against the wall. Literally is the only class I enjoy and took a while to find combos that were effective and enjoyable.
Created a couple of warriors so I could use the points on different skills so I finally made a third that I'm having a blast with.
When I started the game, graphics were orange and horrible! I had to go to settings, turn off graphics filters and players lanterns. It makes everything orange.
After that I could see the nice graphics the game has, before that I was like WTF!!
The caveat is, I'm not a PvP player. So no end game for me, but I also love crafting and selling goods.
This is where I'm having a blast.
I have to agree that if you love a well presented story, well.. Bioware is the keyword
Valk is like a warrior. Very fun to play. Ranger is a bit difficult at first but at around level 10 it gets better.
Yeah, warrior is great though. I like my ranger best now that she is 12 since getting some fancy moves, evasive shot make her untouchable when used right.
I think you will find endgame in other areas which will be more rewarding than stupid system they have right now. (my biggest gripe at the moment is how shitty the PvP is going to be for soloist and the ones that want the hunt)
PvP has no rewards at all. I like the karma system but just deplore the flagging system and the lack of rewards.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
So I had to check it out for myself and therefore had no requirements at all when starting it up the first time.
I do think that the character creation is really pretty and even the overall graphics would be cool if it wasn't for all the texture flickering. It is damn pretty when not moving though. (my specs are an OC 3570k, 8 gb ram, ssds and 980 TI)
I do not even mind grinding the f*** out of mobs the whole day. Spell effects for the wizard who I tried were really cool and felt powerful on impact.
The biggest reasons for me why I won't even buy the 30€ version of the game is the lack in endgame PvE content, not being sure what happens to the ingame shop in 2 months AND the lack of visible item progression. I just can'T stand games that let you play as a beggar wrapped in robes for 50 lvls without any remarkable change in equipmetn visuals. Sure you could toss a bunch of money into a costume, that everyone and theirs wifes will be using. So thanks for the insight using the beta key but I ll keep waiting for ... I dont even know.. Sometimes it seems the MMORPG genre is dying a really slow and painful death.
I tried two classes and while i basicly like alot about the game, i couldn't get into the combat. It felt clumsy and unintuitive to me.
I was sort of overwhelmed with the skills scattered allover various key-combos. While in other games combat usually works on muscle memory only, in BD i constantly had to "think" what move to do next and what button/mouse combos to press. My attacks were either similar looking slashes or similar looking ranged attacks, what didn't help me to really distinguish one skills from another.
But then the first mobs to kill died from one or two shots, so there wasn't really a deeper combat "experience" to make early on.
I got used to the UI after a while and it didn't bother me. The function to lock/unlock the cursor was something i have seen before and its not too bad. After some adjusting of on-screen elements, there was enough space left on the screen to have a free view on the game without a ton of UI overlays in my face. 21:9 resolution helped with the clutter here.
I had a problem with the camera distance tough and found it generally lacking at default settings, as just everything was way too close up and too big on my screen. Other players, NPCs in dialogues and also my own character. I need more FOV and a further away perspective on everything and will do some more testing on that tonight.
No visual character progress in terms of gear is literally a slap in the face. This alone is enough reason why this game should not be called a "R"PG.
I'm sure there are many interesting systems later on in the game. Like the whole crafting, farming/workers or siege aspect which altogether i would love to figure out.
I'll keep following the game, as after all there seems to be a good title hidden behind a small learning curve that i just couldn't yet take in my short sessions of beta playing.
I do think I'm going to preorder though. I'm pretty sure there is a good game through all the odd systems, once I get a handle on them. I have no idea how people able to write off the game without learning any of the systems. Playing for a couple days, without looking through the countless guides out there, is not going to give you enough info to decide anything about the game.
+Graphics
+Character Creation
+Housing - instanced but at the same time in the normal game world, very cool!
+Crafting - Crafting is great in this game, not sure on it's long-term effectiveness though.
+Nodes/Contribution - Adds some strategy to the mix
+NPC/Conversation/Knowledge system - Adds a lot of depth
+Optional Questing
+Huge Open World, You can go off in one direction and just explore and best of all the game rewards you. There are so many huge areas in the game that have little to no players or enemies, you feel really feel like you're lost in the wilderness.
+No Fast Travel
+Taming Horses
+Day/Night System / Weather
Things I don't like:
-Combat feels strange, It's getting better as I start to know my skills, but it feels spammy to me right now.
-The Main Narrative isn't too interesting.
-Grindy both in a good way and bad way
-The need for potions is too prevalent. I drink like 200 mana pots in a grind session.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I've started taking off skills from the hotbar with easy combos and putting on the skills that feel weird for my hand.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It goes both ways, my friend.
There is an entire industry of shills and haters paid to try and kill a game as well.