I was really hoping to find some unknown hidden gems in this list, but all these are games I've done played and quit in the past. Hopefully one day you will do a column specifically on games that probably aren't know to many people and may surprise us as something to check out for the first time.
I guess everyone's oppinion about exploring is different. I see people saying it needs to have some kind of reward so exploring in WoW doesn't count, i see others who say just roaming about looking at beautiful locations is exploring. You can't please everyone as everyone has a different opinion.
For me WoW has exploration, atleast in the old version. When quest didn't had huge arrows pointing the way and marked on the map where it was. You had to explore area's to find your quest location. But even without the quests it was a blast to explore the giant map. Just go strol near the coastline and you would find a farm very far away from any village or area players normally would come. Or climbing onto a mountain just to see a great view. That is exploration to me, discovering things that are out there that not many might see as they won't go there. Yes now with flying mounts it's much more easy and it might even take away from the exploration feel, but WoW sure had exploration in the past. As do other games, themepark or sandbox doesn't matter, if you have a open world and you can go off the beaten path and just discovering new great views and objects then that is exploring for me. You decide for yourself if its rewarding or not, not some item that gives you something special because you happened to go somewhere. Hell when people know that, you will have guides quickly how to get there, killing the exploration part. No, exploration to me is just being able to go to places wether you have to be there or not.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
I used to love exploring in MMOs, wondering off seeing and discover hidden landscapes, abandoned buildings, and other small non essential things like NPCs and items which tells their own little stories that has nothing to do with- well, anything.
Nowadays "exploration" in games are all about finding a number of specific points on a check list, unlocking set achievements for completion rewards - which for me is not real exploration at all, and in fact ruins it for me.
to me eq2 felt small compared to eq1. in eq1 you could actually find an off the beaten path camp spot nobody else knew about.
E:d and eve both great exploration games.
i totally understand your putting wow on the list. easter eggs are part of exploration!
agree with others AA deserved to be here over rift.
i have high hopes as an explorer for PG, pantheon, star citizen.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
I guess everyone's oppinion about exploring is different. I see people saying it needs to have some kind of reward......
Because I used the word "reward" in my post I'll assume that some of this is directed at me. I wasn't saying that there should be some specific reward(s) for exploring I was saying that when you know everything worthwhile is gained by following the predetermined path laid out for you it makes true exploration feel pointless.
For me, going where a game tells me to go doesn't count as exploration. Exploration is when I wonder what's over that hill so I go and look just because I'm curious----not because a quest sent me there or because I needed to step on that portion of the map to get some exploration achievement or reward.
But, if I know from the outset that there won't be anything interesting on the other side of the hill unless a quest sends me there I get that "what's the point" feeling when I think about going to look.
Your point about players making guides is valid but for me almost anything would be better than having every step of my path through a game decided for me before I even start playing. Yeah, I can wander around and look at the scenery but it's depressing to know that anything of interest to be found will be found by following the predetermined path.
I so miss SWG. Explore your prime server until you know all then jump to another and learn and explore anew.
Agree 100%. Many evenings I would just go out looking around, capturing new pets, and building a camp waiting for others to see my fire and wonder in for some healing.
Its funny how it seems different generations of MMO gamers consider map exploration differently. I have been playing EQ and EQ2 for over 10 years and still get surprised about places I've not seen before. The Secret World has been a good game for me for exploration, I like that I can wonder around in an area and find a quest item, or some fellow sitting under a tree to talk to. And LOTRO is just a beautiful world that I enjoy exploring. I was hoping that Wildstar would be the exploration game I have been waiting for since SWG, however when it went Free To Play, the community changed and I've left.
Recently I've started playing Blade and Soul, and haven't really had a chance at exploration yet. I'm hoping it will. I purchased access to Black Desert because some RL friends of mine suggested I would love the world exploration. We shall see
All in all, having played all of the games you listed I agree with your list Bill, only Trove for me was a little weird, but I'm not into the Minecraft type games.
I so miss SWG. Explore your prime server until you know all then jump to another and learn and explore anew.
Recently I've started playing Blade and Soul, and haven't really had a chance at exploration yet. I'm hoping it will.
Don't hold your breath. It's one of the worst MMO's for exploration that i've ever played. Tiny zones with basically nothing off path. I was so disappointed with this aspect of the game.
I'd add FFXI to the list. The game world was huge with lots of places to explore. Danger was a key element of the game which made exploration and getting lost that much more fun, or annoying, depending on how you looked at it.
Gorgon has some nice ideas in the game but it is not even remotely close to an exploration game.The very first map they made needs about 300% more work done to it to come close to satisfying me.
The one dungeon that was sort of ok was nothing but lag,not even playable,i think my frame rates were around 2-3.
But yes i understand the list was not meant to be complete,there are a lot of games i have played over the years that were interesting to walk through.However i should reiterate,auto generating some trees/fauna/water does not deserve much hype at all.Also at the same time i realize likely no developer out there is going to hand build a game,they are not in this to build great worlds,just great big vaults of money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Many who criticize the list seem to not understand exploration is done for different reasons.
Some are seeking scenic vistas, hence game graphics are important. ( DAOC was like this for me) Others are looking for difficult to find or reach areas, (WOW'S dancing troll village comes to mind) and others want it to be a specific mechanic which methodically leads to a reward. (UWO, EVE)
I didn't list UO, AO or SWG because I've never played them, perhaps Bill hasn't either hence their omission here, you folks should give him a break.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Many who criticize the list seem to not understand exploration is done for different reasons.
Some are seeking scenic vistas, hence game graphics are important. ( DAOC was like this for me) Others are looking for difficult to find or reach areas, (WOW'S dancing troll village comes to mind) and others want it to be a specific mechanic which methodically leads to a reward. (UWO, EVE)
I didn't list UO, AO or SWG because I've never played them, perhaps Bill hasn't either hence their omission here, you folks should give Bill a break.
Then he shouldnt list broken , early access games , like Wander that are barely functional and leave most people wandering how to uninstall it ..
And Trove , which a flea wouldnt find an exploration value in .. .. And Rift is just a series of walled off corridors filled with mobs every 5' ...
This discredits his article , when he omits such other great exploration games (ex.. UO and AC ) and includes complete rubbish like those...
"To start off, we’re going to focus on the best games out there for all kinds of explorers. If you love getting lost in a world, seeing whatever is over the next mountain, we hope to give you quite a few games to check out."
SWG is no longer available for people to check out so is rightly left out.
Quest led games are not games for explorers for the simple reason that all the rewards are from going where you are told to go and doing what you are told to do so if you actually explore (rather than following the dotted line) you just feel like you are wasting your time.
+1....spot on....I hate worlds where everything is the result of a quest......Nothing bothers me more than killing a boss and getting nothing because he is a quest boss......Give me a world where I have to find things unknown.
I kind of wish that some exploration games would just drop PvPer, or make it indirect(bidding, PvE firsts, market competition). After that happens you can start to do some really cool things like not needing to give every player the same chances at getting abilities, or offering powerful one time use items(IE: broken in PvP situation).
While exploring in EvE I know that I'm doing stuff someone else has before. But the pattern to take WH's out to null(hidden unmappable and changing paths to get to lawless space), to then need to wander around said space while scanning(a form of prospecting), to then get a site(your PvE area, your 'exploration' reward), to then finish the site(your monetary reward). Is a pretty exploration-ish and unique experience even when it's a bunch of "utterly known parts".
WurmOnline when I played was the first game in years where I actually got "lost lost", as in lost but not due to game mechanics getting in the way, or an "unfair" lost where devs just toss so many moving parts at you that you start lost no matter what. I eventually ended up learning that you can use the sun and stars the same way you do in RL to navigate, and writing one of the earliest guides to it(but not as complete ones that come out a couple months later).
GW2 I did like the design thematics you got to see by just wandering around and doing what I normally would do. Though when you start to think about it on the afterthought you're forced to realized that by being a fixed mechanic it becomes a "forced" design rather than an organic(?) one. It's hard to explain but it felt nice when playing but when it comes to actual memories of getting somewhere it became less memorable.
EDIT: We need more articles like this. Maybe fewer press releases, but I don't hold those against you.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Many who criticize the list seem to not understand exploration is done for different reasons.
Some are seeking scenic vistas, hence game graphics are important. ( DAOC was like this for me) Others are looking for difficult to find or reach areas, (WOW'S dancing troll village comes to mind) and others want it to be a specific mechanic which methodically leads to a reward. (UWO, EVE)
I didn't list UO, AO or SWG because I've never played them, perhaps Bill hasn't either hence their omission here, you folks should give him a break.
I miss exploring in DAoC. I used to multi-box and roam the maps because you could find so many random and remote spots to "camp" mobs and get occasional neat items with particle effects. Some of them were total crap, but they were great for salvaging, others weren't too bad. Since I was an Alb, I used to go to Dartmoor a lot, and after the first expansion came out, I took my necromancer out to the new lands to farm other things. I left after ToA came out so I have no idea just how many more areas opened up for exploration. I'd often sneak out to the RvR realms and find remote spots to "camp" mobs. I think part of the excitement was the risk of being obliterated by opposing factions, but also because those areas were seeded with better loot.
I think you are missing the reason for the criticism, you made bad choices that don't meet anyone's criteria for exploration.
Hardly "anyone's". I see a lot of agreement here, just as I see dissent. Again, the list isn't exhaustive. It's not supposed to be a catch-all. Reading the intro states as much. Oh well, hopefully it sinks in as we do more like this.
I just hope that some group of talented developers see this and gain some important take-aways that later resurface as fully realized ideas, whether it be in pre-existing games or something new and WORTHWHILE.
Comments
For me WoW has exploration, atleast in the old version. When quest didn't had huge arrows pointing the way and marked on the map where it was. You had to explore area's to find your quest location. But even without the quests it was a blast to explore the giant map. Just go strol near the coastline and you would find a farm very far away from any village or area players normally would come. Or climbing onto a mountain just to see a great view. That is exploration to me, discovering things that are out there that not many might see as they won't go there. Yes now with flying mounts it's much more easy and it might even take away from the exploration feel, but WoW sure had exploration in the past. As do other games, themepark or sandbox doesn't matter, if you have a open world and you can go off the beaten path and just discovering new great views and objects then that is exploring for me. You decide for yourself if its rewarding or not, not some item that gives you something special because you happened to go somewhere. Hell when people know that, you will have guides quickly how to get there, killing the exploration part. No, exploration to me is just being able to go to places wether you have to be there or not.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
Nowadays "exploration" in games are all about finding a number of specific points on a check list, unlocking set achievements for completion rewards - which for me is not real exploration at all, and in fact ruins it for me.
E:d and eve both great exploration games.
i totally understand your putting wow on the list. easter eggs are part of exploration!
agree with others AA deserved to be here over rift.
i have high hopes as an explorer for PG, pantheon, star citizen.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Because I used the word "reward" in my post I'll assume that some of this is directed at me. I wasn't saying that there should be some specific reward(s) for exploring I was saying that when you know everything worthwhile is gained by following the predetermined path laid out for you it makes true exploration feel pointless.
For me, going where a game tells me to go doesn't count as exploration. Exploration is when I wonder what's over that hill so I go and look just because I'm curious----not because a quest sent me there or because I needed to step on that portion of the map to get some exploration achievement or reward.
But, if I know from the outset that there won't be anything interesting on the other side of the hill unless a quest sends me there I get that "what's the point" feeling when I think about going to look.
Your point about players making guides is valid but for me almost anything would be better than having every step of my path through a game decided for me before I even start playing. Yeah, I can wander around and look at the scenery but it's depressing to know that anything of interest to be found will be found by following the predetermined path.
Agree 100%. Many evenings I would just go out looking around, capturing new pets, and building a camp waiting for others to see my fire and wonder in for some healing.
Its funny how it seems different generations of MMO gamers consider map exploration differently. I have been playing EQ and EQ2 for over 10 years and still get surprised about places I've not seen before. The Secret World has been a good game for me for exploration, I like that I can wonder around in an area and find a quest item, or some fellow sitting under a tree to talk to. And LOTRO is just a beautiful world that I enjoy exploring. I was hoping that Wildstar would be the exploration game I have been waiting for since SWG, however when it went Free To Play, the community changed and I've left.
Recently I've started playing Blade and Soul, and haven't really had a chance at exploration yet. I'm hoping it will. I purchased access to Black Desert because some RL friends of mine suggested I would love the world exploration. We shall see
All in all, having played all of the games you listed I agree with your list Bill, only Trove for me was a little weird, but I'm not into the Minecraft type games.
MorBlade
Looking forward to your future playlists.
I'd add FFXI to the list. The game world was huge with lots of places to explore. Danger was a key element of the game which made exploration and getting lost that much more fun, or annoying, depending on how you looked at it.
The one dungeon that was sort of ok was nothing but lag,not even playable,i think my frame rates were around 2-3.
But yes i understand the list was not meant to be complete,there are a lot of games i have played over the years that were interesting to walk through.However i should reiterate,auto generating some trees/fauna/water does not deserve much hype at all.Also at the same time i realize likely no developer out there is going to hand build a game,they are not in this to build great worlds,just great big vaults of money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Some are seeking scenic vistas, hence game graphics are important. ( DAOC was like this for me) Others are looking for difficult to find or reach areas, (WOW'S dancing troll village comes to mind) and others want it to be a specific mechanic which methodically leads to a reward. (UWO, EVE)
I didn't list UO, AO or SWG because I've never played them, perhaps Bill hasn't either hence their omission here, you folks should give him a break.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And Trove , which a flea wouldnt find an exploration value in .. .. And Rift is just a series of walled off corridors filled with mobs every 5' ...
This discredits his article , when he omits such other great exploration games (ex.. UO and AC ) and includes complete rubbish like those...
SWG is no longer available for people to check out so is rightly left out.
While exploring in EvE I know that I'm doing stuff someone else has before. But the pattern to take WH's out to null(hidden unmappable and changing paths to get to lawless space), to then need to wander around said space while scanning(a form of prospecting), to then get a site(your PvE area, your 'exploration' reward), to then finish the site(your monetary reward). Is a pretty exploration-ish and unique experience even when it's a bunch of "utterly known parts".
WurmOnline when I played was the first game in years where I actually got "lost lost", as in lost but not due to game mechanics getting in the way, or an "unfair" lost where devs just toss so many moving parts at you that you start lost no matter what. I eventually ended up learning that you can use the sun and stars the same way you do in RL to navigate, and writing one of the earliest guides to it(but not as complete ones that come out a couple months later).
GW2 I did like the design thematics you got to see by just wandering around and doing what I normally would do. Though when you start to think about it on the afterthought you're forced to realized that by being a fixed mechanic it becomes a "forced" design rather than an organic(?) one. It's hard to explain but it felt nice when playing but when it comes to actual memories of getting somewhere it became less memorable.
EDIT: We need more articles like this. Maybe fewer press releases, but I don't hold those against you.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I miss exploring in DAoC. I used to multi-box and roam the maps because you could find so many random and remote spots to "camp" mobs and get occasional neat items with particle effects. Some of them were total crap, but they were great for salvaging, others weren't too bad. Since I was an Alb, I used to go to Dartmoor a lot, and after the first expansion came out, I took my necromancer out to the new lands to farm other things. I left after ToA came out so I have no idea just how many more areas opened up for exploration. I'd often sneak out to the RvR realms and find remote spots to "camp" mobs. I think part of the excitement was the risk of being obliterated by opposing factions, but also because those areas were seeded with better loot.
Hardly "anyone's". I see a lot of agreement here, just as I see dissent. Again, the list isn't exhaustive. It's not supposed to be a catch-all. Reading the intro states as much. Oh well, hopefully it sinks in as we do more like this.
I just hope that some group of talented developers see this and gain some important take-aways that later resurface as fully realized ideas, whether it be in pre-existing games or something new and WORTHWHILE.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
hell wurm was missing from 'crafting MMOs' for christ sake how is that even possible!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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