A game that has a player base that puts out information to help explain and clear up the systems in the game also speaks volumes towards the calibre of the players that are willing to invest their time an effort in the gathering and dissemination of information. Good player base there.
I'm glad this game doesn't hold your hand. It kind of reminds me of the old days when you didn't have all the resources outside the game. This game might struggle though, since a lot of younger gamers today don't have the attention spans to play games with complicated systems.
Sadly enough, this game is complicated in a very shallow way, they way that confuses you at first and make you believe it's profound but in no time you will find it in short of real content. This is the most prominent feature Korean or Asian MMOs share in common. ArchAge is the latest example.
This is what i'm hearing also. People calling it deep and complex when its really not. I guess they want to feel good about playing it. But just like B&S after i few months the hype will die and either you will think it was worth the money or you will rage on the boards how its Pay to Win. Can't wait to watch the show as i have zero interest in this game.
Not EVERYONE wants to be lost or confused while playing games. So while yes, I see it as a fun aspect to BDO, this process of learning, I see Steve's point.
Case in point, why Turbine remade the Old Forest in Lotro. The first iteration was incredible. Now? It's just an easy set of corridors with what looks like tree painted walls.
In any case, he's right, there are people who don't like being lost or confused. They don't enjoy that "oh dear! I have no idea where I am and I'm in a danger zone" feeling.
God, I missed the OLD Old Forest. I got lost so much back then.
I miss the old forest as well... that and Kithkor forest in EQ1.... just that element of danger, getting lost, and creepy factor...
Oh come on Kithkor wasn't so bad as long as you stuck to the zone wall, had SoW and made sure to run through in the day time!
On a side note ill be getting BDO after launch, haven't watched much on it, going into it with limited knowledge on this game just to see if I can be taken by surprise at all. Hearing there is no hand holding and there is a learning curve to certain things gives me a little hope.
OP proves what the crappy games like Wow have done to taint gamer's in a bad way.
I really get the feeling the OP is looking for all the hand holding he can get.He would have never survived FFXI back in the day because there was zero hand holding,not even good maps and definitely no markers on maps to hand hold you where to go.
This would all be the TRUE meaning of exploration,there is no such thing if a game hand holds you through everything or anything.It is suppose to treat you like it would be in a real world,there would be no maps telling you what npc to go see or where to find birds or whatever.
As far as changes and being different,i never got that feeling but i am no expert on both versions.The only idea i got was Daum was giving the NA players LESS of a game than the Korean game because they want to sell the rest in some form of cash shop sale.Seeing how bad the CS in this game is i would say that is most likely the reason why,they are really trying to grind a lot of money out of players.This is what happens if you create to much fanbois hype,devs feel they have a lot of fish to reel in.Instead you want to push the developer,make them give you more and better,don't be satisfied with mediocrity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have to agree with some of the peeps here, with regards to actually having to explore the games systems to figure out how they work and interconnect with each other. It has been a longggg time since I actually felt compelled to actually stop and smell the roses on how some of the games systems work rather than race to level cap. The last CBT i only made it to 17 because I was actually drawn into other elements.
i honestly enjoy the non hand holding that BDO offers, its a nice change of pace for me. I was getting a little worn out of the go here, then here, then here theme park games.
I love how people act as if complicated systems are the holy grail of mmorpgs. They give you very little information and this somehow equates to fun? I get it, fun is subjective. To me, fun isn't following a linear quest line with each character that I create. Fun to me is running into the world and interacting with what I find, not running up to the guy with the question mark over his head to do the same quest line I've done 3x before.
A bird spawns once every hour for 15 seconds and you have the patience to complete that quest, ok. My assassin says, fuck that bird. Why do I care about that bird, is it because you are telling me that I must care? When everyone does the same quests lines where the fuck is the role playing coming from? I guess it's still role playing when we all play the same role but that's not what I am looking for.
" finding out how to actually play it is incredibly frustrating."
It's the same thing on these forums with every other release. Either people complain about "another hand holding WOW clone again" or if a game is not, "this is too frustration to get into, we have to find out stuff on our own!".
In fact this is the main thrill about BDO for me.
A new MMORPG should make you feel like a newbie again and if a game can't provide a reasonable learning curve and new approach to this and that, there's a good chance the studio behind it didn't put much effort in innovation.
In that case you may just have a lazy clone at hand and played it many times in the past 10 years already.
Can't play the same thing with every other title released and expect it to excite me, so i prefer some frustration any day onstead.
I am actually glad that the game has a steep learning curve. I played Meridian59, The Realm, Ultima Online and EverQuest, and none of them held your hand to teach you the game. I look forward to something that isn't WoWesque and has a different feel to it. If the kids that grew up playing WoW can't handle not being led around by the nose to learn the game, great. Less irritating chatter, Chuck Norris jokes and people who believe that Blizzard put out a quality product, instead of "The Flintstones Online" in a fancy package.
Don't want to be a dick, but this article sounds too much like "not casual enough".
Game does not held your hand, it drops you into the pool and spects you to swim for yourself.
Well.
Ok.
Why is that something bad?
It can frustrate the lest experienced players?
Have a bit of faith in them, i'm sure they will learn.
Yes, the game coud teach you everything in 15 minutes, but that is kinda dull.
I think it's really better to let everyone learn at their own pace and discover everything by themselves. Feels more rewarding that way.
I felt some of those "obtuse" quests reminded me of the old EQ quests. You sometimes do have to read the dialog to get a clue as to what you need. One quest I remember, I had to find a kid's cat that had gotten away. If I remember, there were clues in the dialog indicating that the cat was on a roof somewhere. But what got me to figure where to look was the kid was actually looking up and pointing to a rooftop. It didn't have a guide, I just had to make the connection climb on a roof and look for a cat on one... which I did quite quickly. Oddly enough, even though it was a simple quest with very little reward, I actually really enjoyed it as I did have to use some deduction to figure things out. It's those little things that really got the hook in me for this game.
Sorry but one of the things we have been asking for is a game that does not hold our hand. Put us in the world and let us discover whats out there. There has to always be a sense of wonder.
Sorry but one of the things we have been asking for is a game that does not hold our hand. Put us in the world and let us discover whats out there. There has to always be a sense of wonder.
I agree with you here! It felt so good to feel kind of "overwhelmed" by all the new systems, all the information and possibilities! To have to actually stop a moment to analyze things and to try to understand and to try and find out how to get the maximum out of it... It finally felt like playing an MMORPG again for the first time in a very long time!
TL;DR The game is difficult, L2P... if you don't like to L2P go play WoW.
Difficult, oh god that's funny.
There is a difference between difficulty and intuitiveness.
EQ was difficult but intuitive.
Black Desert is extremely easy to play but unintuitive.
Basically, the former offers challenge and forces you to cooperate, while the later just offers frustration until you look up how the quest works online.
But gameplay wise, Black Desert is extremely easy, you can solo, no real death penalty, no forced grouping, no chance of gear loss, etc.
I work full time and watch a three year old for the rest of the day. I don't want to use my brain. You can't make me.
Yeah with so many "old" people in this thread you would think they would have jobs and kids to watch and thus very little time for untangling games that are trying to be complicated just because. The nonsense of the game and its systems will definitely push away a significant portion of the MMO population and there's no denying that...despite what some have said in this thread. I think there is a fun game here beneath the mess of systems...I guess none of us know and we will find out at release. I'm hoping the actual game is fun with lots of content. However, this game could be one of those game that once you figure it out, there isn't much else to do.
My big concerns are the faceroll PvE and PvP...which at this point seems to be PvP just for PvP's sake unless it's a siege. And even the sieges don't seem to be really worth it, if it is only for taxes/cash. Not like you can siege and capture a city to live in that is destructible and your home.
Ultimately, I'm happy that the game seems to be offering a bit more freedom than your typical linear quest hub themepark. I'll take what I can get. Hopefully the devs are working hard to make the PvP more worthwhile and the PvE more tactical and challenging.
I'm glad this game doesn't hold your hand. It kind of reminds me of the old days when you didn't have all the resources outside the game. This game might struggle though, since a lot of younger gamers today don't have the attention spans to play games with complicated systems.
this game is pretty much the exact opposite of old MMO
In old MMO you were forced to group, cooperate, you had tons of PVE content, endgame content, no cash shop, you didn't rely on quests to progress, there was no class gender locking, the UI was simply and intuitive.
Black desert is the exact opposite. You can solo, autorun to quests NPC, combat is super forgiving, no death penalty, no engame PVE content, cash shop, easy travel, etc.
The fact quests in Black Desert are poorly written, often not even in proper English, leading to confusion, is not something to be proud of.
American gamers want hand holding. We have to have it!!!
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i'll take BD over EQ1 any day thank you very much. Im not a zombie, i like games with different types of content. Old mmos were fun because there was nothing else. If they were better than todays mmos they would still have full servers... only WoW manages to do that from all the oldies.
Comments
Oh come on Kithkor wasn't so bad as long as you stuck to the zone wall, had SoW and made sure to run through in the day time!
On a side note ill be getting BDO after launch, haven't watched much on it, going into it with limited knowledge on this game just to see if I can be taken by surprise at all. Hearing there is no hand holding and there is a learning curve to certain things gives me a little hope.
I really get the feeling the OP is looking for all the hand holding he can get.He would have never survived FFXI back in the day because there was zero hand holding,not even good maps and definitely no markers on maps to hand hold you where to go.
This would all be the TRUE meaning of exploration,there is no such thing if a game hand holds you through everything or anything.It is suppose to treat you like it would be in a real world,there would be no maps telling you what npc to go see or where to find birds or whatever.
As far as changes and being different,i never got that feeling but i am no expert on both versions.The only idea i got was Daum was giving the NA players LESS of a game than the Korean game because they want to sell the rest in some form of cash shop sale.Seeing how bad the CS in this game is i would say that is most likely the reason why,they are really trying to grind a lot of money out of players.This is what happens if you create to much fanbois hype,devs feel they have a lot of fish to reel in.Instead you want to push the developer,make them give you more and better,don't be satisfied with mediocrity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Nice to see for a change.
A bird spawns once every hour for 15 seconds and you have the patience to complete that quest, ok. My assassin says, fuck that bird. Why do I care about that bird, is it because you are telling me that I must care? When everyone does the same quests lines where the fuck is the role playing coming from? I guess it's still role playing when we all play the same role but that's not what I am looking for.
" finding out how to actually play it is incredibly frustrating."
It's the same thing on these forums with every other release. Either people complain about "another hand holding WOW clone again" or if a game is not, "this is too frustration to get into, we have to find out stuff on our own!".
In fact this is the main thrill about BDO for me.
A new MMORPG should make you feel like a newbie again and if a game can't provide a reasonable learning curve and new approach to this and that, there's a good chance the studio behind it didn't put much effort in innovation.
In that case you may just have a lazy clone at hand and played it many times in the past 10 years already.
Can't play the same thing with every other title released and expect it to excite me, so i prefer some frustration any day onstead.
This is just one old guy's opinion, though.
Difficult, oh god that's funny.
Game does not held your hand, it drops you into the pool and spects you to swim for yourself.
Well.
Ok.
Why is that something bad?
It can frustrate the lest experienced players?
Have a bit of faith in them, i'm sure they will learn.
Yes, the game coud teach you everything in 15 minutes, but that is kinda dull.
I think it's really better to let everyone learn at their own pace and discover everything by themselves. Feels more rewarding that way.
I agree with you here!
It felt so good to feel kind of "overwhelmed" by all the new systems, all the information and possibilities! To have to actually stop a moment to analyze things and to try to understand and to try and find out how to get the maximum out of it... It finally felt like playing an MMORPG again for the first time in a very long time!
There is a difference between difficulty and intuitiveness.
EQ was difficult but intuitive.
Black Desert is extremely easy to play but unintuitive.
Basically, the former offers challenge and forces you to cooperate, while the later just offers frustration until you look up how the quest works online.
But gameplay wise, Black Desert is extremely easy, you can solo, no real death penalty, no forced grouping, no chance of gear loss, etc.
My big concerns are the faceroll PvE and PvP...which at this point seems to be PvP just for PvP's sake unless it's a siege. And even the sieges don't seem to be really worth it, if it is only for taxes/cash. Not like you can siege and capture a city to live in that is destructible and your home.
Ultimately, I'm happy that the game seems to be offering a bit more freedom than your typical linear quest hub themepark. I'll take what I can get. Hopefully the devs are working hard to make the PvP more worthwhile and the PvE more tactical and challenging.
In old MMO you were forced to group, cooperate, you had tons of PVE content, endgame content, no cash shop, you didn't rely on quests to progress, there was no class gender locking, the UI was simply and intuitive.
Black desert is the exact opposite. You can solo, autorun to quests NPC, combat is super forgiving, no death penalty, no engame PVE content, cash shop, easy travel, etc.
The fact quests in Black Desert are poorly written, often not even in proper English, leading to confusion, is not something to be proud of.