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Lack of Updates/Info Hurting the Game?
Tiran
Member Posts: 8
Hey all...HJ is a game I can't wait to play--despite the fact that I still know almost nothing about it. HJ has now dropped off of the most wanted list here on mmorpg.com, and I can't remember the last time that a developer updated something of content. We are very fortunate that the GMs here on the boards answer questions quickly, but they almost always have to answer with a variant of "that info hasn't been released yet."
I want to stay excited. I want to share that excitement with my friends and others. But the lack of new information, release dates, beta infor, webpage updates--January 18th is the last updated, or "news" posted on the play.net/hj.com site--or ANYTHING for that matter is really starting to worry me....what good is a great looking game if we don't know anything about it?
Can we please get a bit more information? Please? At least update the official forums on the play.net site...please?
Thanks for the time...
Tiran
Comments
Have you been reading the Features section here on MMORPG.com? That section is updated with interviews, screeshots and dev journals weekly. Lots of good information there.
-------------------------
"An area decorated in blood, is an area decorated with love."
- HJ-Rowell
Former Simutronics Staff (ASGM)
Hero's Journey - World Building Team
http://play.net/hj/
There's also a fantastic fansite that has categorized many of the developer quotes given in interviews here and elsewhere. It really deserves its own sticky(!), but here's the link:
Brodbane's Unofficial Hero's Journey FAQ
There's a great deal of information there, and it's updated pretty frequently.
I've seen both the developer Q&A and the Unofficial FAQ, but I still agree with Tiran.
The Q&A's have included little in the way of "content". The FAQ also contains only old and already known information.
I think that they really really seriously need to update their main site, especially since it contains next to no information about the game at all. The last "update" actually removed information rather than added any.
I, like Tiran, would like to get my friends excited for this game, as it looks really really cool.
I remember back when I was following WoW, I could show everybody the website and say, "Hey, check out the races you can play as. And look at the classes! Which one would you want to be?" I can't really do that here. I can tell them the races and classes, but there aren't any details on either.
I could show them the UFAQ, but let's face it, when you're showing someone something cool, they don't want you to read a bunch of text to them. I think the saying, "A picture tells a thousand words," applies perfectly to this situation.
So I go over to the screenshots. Sure, they look cool, and there are enough of them that I can find images of most (but not all) of the races, but they offer nothing in the realm of information. I'm not the kind of guy that gets fired up by a game's fantastic visuals. Great graphics do not make a game, so I won't be able to get my friends hyped up by saying, "Aren't those graphics awesome?" If I do, they just think about how poorly it'll make their computers run.
We eventually resort to the fansites, with the bits and pieces of out-dated information they provide.
People are starving for new information here. The Q&A's have been good, but they're spaced far apart and unorganized. People want clear cut race and class descriptions, with basic, rough statistics, for comparison if nothing else, and even some sample skills. Most of all, they want it all in one place, on the official site. Something in a similar format to this.
Human
Old Blood
Old Bloods are well-rounded and can handle any role with relative ease.
Tog
Togs excel at melee but are still a fully capable race.
Wizard
Wizards are the masters of the arcane. Their spells are powerful, but they are weak in the front lines.
Magic Missile
Pelts the enemy with pure magical damage.
Wall of Burninate
Summons a wall of fire that will burn enemies passing through it.
Frost Weapon
Enhances a weapon with ice, dealing additional cold damage on strikes.
And of course, screenshots and icons should acompany everything. A class list was fine a few months ago, but by now we should have class descriptions. Heck, we don't even know what the primary attributes are. Do we even have a strength rating? Do races have innate stats? Are the starting stats modified by classes? These are all extremely basic questions. Surely they can be answered by now.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I for one know that most people, including myself, will never be given enough information to please them. I gorge myself on all the info I can find about games in development that catch my attention, PC or platform. Most of the time they don't live up to the hype. But I am hopeful about HJ. This is the impression I get based on all the info I have gleaned so far. Which all in all is comprised of more developer interviews than I recall seeing for any of the other games I have followed. My take on their information releasing practices so far is that they are saying tons with what they are saying and not saying.
First of all, your character. And remember this is how I perceive the direction they are hinting at. My take is that your character won't have skills like we are used to seeing. Maybe not even race traits that are etched in stone. I say this because of the way they can be customized,i.e., armor on a mage with no detrimental effects. I picked up that you won't gimp a avatar by picking a historically weak race and plunking them into a class that seems better suited to a more resilient race. This feel more like a real fantasy setting. You can have the skinny little halfling who is feared by warriors three times his size and brawn, because he is that fraction of a percentage of the population that is hero material; or because he is favored by the gods or just plain cursed by a magical weapon that drinks souls.
A lot of my examples support other aspects of game play. Like in questing. They have been pretty forthcoming about their quest system being different. Basically if they can pull it off I don't see how any other MMORPG could compete on merit. You will always have the people that dismiss change out-of-hand. They are happy where they are and will let nothing in to change that world. I prefer not to stagnate. HJ is attempting to let me interact with a "real" world full of other people. Same as everyone else. But they are trying harder to make me feel like I am one of the driving factors in this world. Not that I am more important than the other players. But as important but in my own way. I am not sure I said that very clear. In the real world The "circles" Donald Trump runs in is all important to him and his peers and lackeys and everything he is in contact with. But his world doesn't matter to Bill Gates,or Stephen Spielberg{sp?} or Ophra Winfri{sp?} who are just as important in their inner circle and immediate surroundings. They may have heard about each other. May have even run into each other. What they each have done in the world may have affected all the others in some way. But when all is said and done their worlds are separate and each is a hero in that world. That is how reality is perceived. There is a general knowledge and sense of the world around you to encompass the whole of the planet. But when it comes right down to it, you are only fighting dragons most of the time in your own back yard. Sorry, long winded.
I will continue in another message this is getting a little cumbersome. I will try to make my points more concisely.
________________________________________________________________
I was talking about quests. This dynamic system, i forget it's name, that keeps track of what you have done in the game to tailor your experience. Sounds like picking a conversation branch really will have consequences. I know games that say they have replayability{Is that a word?
} are full of bumkis. I have no desire to go through the same story line with a better looking pair of shoes and the option to kill a monster in a few rooms that I didn't go into the first time through. That is not what I call replay value. HJ is hinting that your play style and even who you group with and when will affect your story line. Now your fighting style may be static but in an MMORPG who you play with and when and where is never static. Truthfully it can hardly be controlled at all. This means that even the same group of people playing together with the same avatars could not reproduce the same story line. I am getting warm an fuzzy just thinking about the possibilities.
Also quests scale based on who and how many enter. This tells me that they are throwing traditional class stuff out the window. You don't need it anymore. If the quest scales then it doesn't matter if we come in with a "balanced" group, which always makes it hard for some classes to find groups, which sounds funny for a hero. Nope, sorry, not heroic enough. And they take the little skinny kid with the stick because he has a nifty res spell. So you could quest with all squishy mages and as long as you are smarter than the bad guys you win. I am loving the idea that it will be cake to find people to quest with. Sounds like a nicer community of people without the class racism that goes on in MMOGs now. And the idea that you can solo regardless of your class, multi class, armor class or shop class or no class is a nice touch. Sometimes you just need to go it alone.
And my favorite thing is the system that tracks what your have done and how you have done it to tailor your direction in the game. Even as far as to assign you a nemesis. Better than predetermining my race has a prejudice towards some obscure creature I will hardly ever see.
Okay I am done. So please post and tell me I am crazy that I am reading too much into the info they have released. If the game mechanics are this advanced then I can see being careful what I reveal for fear of unscrupulous developers stealing my ideas before i can implement them. But I agree that they need to put their own info on their official web site. More screen shots and definitely lots and lots of movies. Put a long disclaimer in front of all the releases. We all know that design decisions and art can change. And yes maybe they could show a few spells.
But you must feed the Fishies.
I am seeing quite a bit of information flowing out about the game both on this site and the unofficial sites.
One of the things I am watching for is when the Official Site is given a major update.
When this happens, I believe it will signal that the Devs are ready to allocate resources to advertising the game vs. developing the game.
However, I am aware that even when any Devs of any games being developed release any information I am usually ready with several dozen more questions.
Course, if I were selected to be a beta tester, hmmm...
~ Ancient Membership ~
I've got a funny feeling that this is the calm before the storm. I do agree that the official website should be updated on something of a normal basis. MMORPG and IGN post weekly updates, which is wonderful. However, upon visiting the official site and seeing the last update from January is disappointing. I update my fansite weekly with all the new info from mmorpg and ign. I wish Simu would do the same
-Aelrion
http://elanthia.hostiz.com
--------------------------------------------
When you do something right people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Humm...just posted a reply, but it seems to have been swallowed by the internet...
As I started this mess, I should comment again. I'm afraid that the lack of information is hurting the game because community members--gamers--have nothing to learn about the game from. I can't point someone to the official site because it hasn't been updated in 2 months. The official forums are a nightmare to navigate if you aren't familiar with them. The game has dropped off of mmorpg's most wanted list.
What scares me is people will see this and think the game will stink. They'll think--maybe rightly so--that if a company can't even update its own webpage that it definitely won't upgrade the game or build a high quality game. Like it or not, the only think we have to judge the game by is the information out there--and there isn't a lot of information and the information we have isn't updated often.
I love the mmorpg features, but they don't expand on the game. The screen shots look amazing, but they don't describe class features or abilities to me. I just want to be able to show things to others without fearing that they'll look and and think "a company that won't upgrade the FAQs..well...not the company I want behind a game I'm going to devot my freetime too."
Like it or not, the competition has serious experience and a great name with a lot of gamers. Specficially, Brad McQuaid over at Vanguard draws a ton of fans for his work with EQ. Simu has--I've heard--amazing games but they don't have the mmorpg experience or draw or exposure that others have. I think HJ is going to be the best game of the bunch. Others, however, don't seem to share my feelings. I think more information would help others understand what I'm talking about.
Yes, I've seen the one gameplay vidoe. Yes, I've read every mmorpg/ign/unofficial FAQ tid bit around. I've looked at every screen shot, read the official forums nonstop, and read these forums daily for months now. However, I still know almost nothing about the game. If I don't know more than what I know, what happens to the player scanning websites when they hit HJ...
My two cents...I only want to see the game take off...well, and feed my selfish desire for more game information
Tiran
I agree with the OP. So far we haven't seen really any concrete info to get excited about. I know I am really looking forward to this game -- based on what I think it might be like. Even some of the post here in this thread are speculative.
Its great there are GM's here on MMORPG but really, forum sites only account for a small percentage of players. The official site should be leading the way with info not fan sites.
Outside of screenshots, a single movie from the last E3 (made by a fan it looks like) and the Q&As here, I really have nothing to go on. Fan site info....well how do you know its accurate?
One reason I struggle between this and Vangard is that there is so much more info available for Vangard. If I want to know about something, class, race, magic, skills, I can look at the Vangard site and find out. I think this game (HJ) sounds much more promising, but don't alot of them?
I hope it is the calm before the storm
They gave out a vague Q2 release timeframe but I hate to say it, Q2 technically starts in a few weeks and we still have an information blackout. So far the pre-release hype from this game is striking out. There have not even been any magazine interviews. Games not releasing this year have already gotten their hype out in most of the industry mags. Like any product there needs to be a strong advertising campaign if you want the public to know about your product and make a fair buying decision.
I would hope they would put out some info we can sink our teeth into very very soon.
<<I agree with the OP. So far we haven't seen really any concrete info to get excited about. I know I am really looking forward to this game -- based on what I think it might be like. Even some of the post here in this thread are speculative.>>
All the information i've got about HJ has me VERY excited.
<<Outside of screenshots, a single movie from the last E3 (made by a fan it looks like) and the Q&As here, I really have nothing to go on. Fan site info....well how do you know its accurate?>>
All of the fansite information i've seen has came directly from official information posted by HJ staff. That should be considered accurate until an official update :-/
I see it as such: HJ is going to wear the crown in mmorpgs. Simu has their own motives, and we can only assume their strategy. I feel it's all going to come in one big wave. Official lore will go live, all the information and features will go live. E3 is knocking on the door, could this be the time all this happens? More magazine articles, publicity? We all know what it means to assume. (ducks)
Sure i'll say that I would like an official update to the official website. Yes it looks bad that on the official website the last update was from January. Do I believe that HJ will loose a fanbase (this far into the game) because of a lack of updates? NO. I feel that the bulk majority of folks interested in HJ come from other Simu games, and Simu has done very little to create a fanbase from outside their other games, so how can they loose what isn't already there? That's MHO mind you.
Am I confident that Simu knows what they are doing? Absolutely. Look at Dragonrealms. It is text based, and is what, 10 years old this month? And still alive and kicking! Dragonrealms ruined all other mmorpgs for me, so i've got faith in HJ to do the same
Just my 2 kronars
-Aelrion
http://elanthia.hostiz.com
From a slightly diffrent perspective Im part of a start-up company myself. Mind you not a game company. The odd reality seems that when you release a product you dont always want people to understand it. When they understand it before release sometimes you chain yourself to there wanton desires to change it before its release. By doing this you often end up with a product nowhere near the product you intended. Sometimes it ends up a bland afterthought of what you orignally intended. A alternative of course is to just feed the potenial customer base enough information to give them a fake taste of the product. A what if so to speak. This way your free to develop as radically as you desire. Now hehe unfortunately the product sometimes ends up to radical and people flee after release. Other times they end up seen as a extreme masterpeice. Thats the luck of the draw and heavily relies on your past experience and your team. I for one stand behind simutronics. They seem to have a pretty decent concept. I say let them do as there doing. When there ready theyll release the product specifications. Youd be amazed how fast naysayers swing back to yaysayers the second the image is what they want lol. Oh and none of what I said has any reflection on the company i work for. Err legal disclaimer so to speak.
Dont get me wrong, everything about this game looks fantastic! I just have alot of questions and I am hungry for some info.
The way I see it, when a company makes an announcement about X, Y or Z, they are locking themselves into that. I can't count the number of times where a game company has said, for example, "this class will have skills A, B and C." Then, due to one reason or another, that rule needs to be changed. The next day, on the fan boards, a whirlwind of hate and disdain starts flowing. I think that Simutronics is trying to steer away from carving everything in stone, up to the end, to remain as flexible as possible.
Would I like to see more information on the game mechanics posted on a website? Sure. Any player would. I know that I'd be wanting to know how the classes worked, and skills, and everything so I could start piecing together my first character right now. And that's the trap. You get the game information, start thinking of a character, and if the rules change (once, twice, more?) you start feeling frustrated. Hero's Journey isn't about frustration.
But, I will mention it to the higher ups that updating the official web site very very soon would be a good idea.
-------------------------
"An area decorated in blood, is an area decorated with love."
- HJ-Rowell
Former Simutronics Staff (ASGM)
Hero's Journey - World Building Team
http://play.net/hj/
Perhaps you could also mention responding to email feedback from the HJ site would be more professional than no reply, and updating the fansite index would be nice, as several sites need to be listed...
Are you folks short on staff, i'm sure some folks out here would volunteer some time if the case is you are so busy you can't respond to emails
We have 2 dedicated fansites (english speaking) with a member base and following that have been waiting to be listed on the official website for almost... 3 weeks now? Myself (Elanthian Arcanum Ascendancy), and Hero's Hall.
This is actually starting to get depressing, and I wish more people would post here and voice their concerns!
-Aelrion
http://elanthia.hostiz.com
Yes! Official Site Updating FTW.
I've been following this game through multiple channels so I know that information is actually coming out. But yah, the agency I'm partnered with specializes in web-presence, and I guarantee that your losing a Ton of newly interested gamers but having the homepage of the official site say ,"Latest News - Jan 18" . It would help even if the official site clearly directed visitors to the real Latest News, even if its on other sites.
I want HJ to be a giant success so I can have a healthy population to adventure with.
-- I need a nerf --
I can understand all this talk about not giving out new info because people will whine about it, try to get it changed, etc. However, it really wouldn't be too bad if they released something concrete about the lore. Its a little more difficult for a community to whine about game lore than whine about other aspects of the game.
Posting some lore would be really beneficial to the community too
. Instead of having people screeching about the lack of content, they'll be busily creating their character(s) - this is a roleplaying game after all. Even if they finish their characters, they can always roleplay with them over IRC or in the forums. I already have my character's appearance planned out (hope they have 2 handed axes), it would be nice to give him a soul too. All I need is a little lore so I can breathe some life into my creations.
I don't know if this is my place to even mention this, but here I go anyways.
Simutronics is going through a time where deadlines come after deadlines. Most likely they have investors come in every day to view new demo's, and see how the game is played. Honestly, I'd be running it the same way. Would I rather have someone spend a few hours updating the webpage, or have them spending a few hours on a possible multi-million dollar deal that could bring more staff to get HJ out faster.
You decide.
I agree. The same thing happened with Vanguard. I kept checking for info every day. Nothing. So it got to the point where I stopped even checking the web site. Then, when they reach some point in their development cycle the info started flowing.
Why waste your time putting out info that will most likely change. Even the lore can and probably will change.
We are all excited. But not matter how much we want it now, we will get it when they decide to give it to us.
Not sure I liked how that came out. Lol
I am worse than most. Mr. instant gratification. Probably because I am getting old and feeling my mortality.
A time is coming when we will be saying on the forum, "Hey you strange people developing HJ stop already with the info, enough is enough!" Okay maybe not. But from what I have seen posted about the company on this forum, it seems like they know how to run a business. I think when the time is right, their decision, they will hit us hard with all kinds of stuff.
They already give interviews once a week and post two new screen shots a week. I know more about this game in the past two weeks than I knew about Vanguard for months on end.
Personally I think they are doing a nice job of giving out info without setting us all up for a big let down. Actually if they don't pull off the stuff they have already talked about we still will be in for a big let down. So it could actually be said that they may have released too much info too early.
There are two major gaming conventions comimg up. One, GDC, is next week. I would guess that news would come out of these two show cases.
Right you are, jgankum. Wouldn't you know it, they go and update their website with just that info, one day after your post!
Hopefully they'll eventually add things that will have been revealed at the convention to the site as well.
And... the HeroEngine, eh? Hmm... a look at that page seems to reveal a few new screenshots. Look at that city market! That's from HJ? It looks really nice.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
The HeroEngine looks nice. Although I really wish I could see large screenshots of the interface and stuff.
I suppose I could always apply for a job then I'd really see it, but I doubt that would happen. Besides, their forums give me a headache.
Why do you doubt it would happen?
I have no previous experience, and I can't code, yet here I am working on the game.
Why? Because I have a good eye for things and I learn quickly.
We need GMs and you will be trained, so give it a shot! Besides that it's -really- fun to do.
Oh, and you don't have to use their forums, you don't have to use any forums if you don't want to.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
Div can try to learn though if she wants. (And she has an ability to follow basic code. Don't let her fool you!)
That would apply to anyone offsite. If you want to try to learn something else when you are on staff... you can.
It's always nice to have multi-talented people.
HJ-Royce
Simutronics Staff (GM)
http://www.play.net/hj/