While I agree there is a social impact, one can make quite a lot of money on the auction house. Was listening to a guild member talk about fishing making him a lot of money.
As far as donating, there are guild quests that basically task players to collect/harvest/etc and that contribution goes to levelign the guild.
Granted one can't gather mats for your guildmates but you can take him/her to an area, group up and get items that way.
You can't buy mats,craft and sell something because you have absolutely no control over price. No way to make money that way.
AH is essentially equal to shopping to NPC vendor...
I've played a lot of MMOs in the past 15 years, and I honestly can't remember a single time where someone traded something meaningful with me directly. People might give a potion or whatever if someone needs it, but for all the MMOs I've played, trade happens at the auction house, just like it will in this game.
People are acting like MMOs usually have a barter system where crafters are trading chickens for ore- that's never how it works.
And I don't know who you guys were friends with but I've never been twinked out by a friend. I've always had to earn my own stuff and it's more fun that way anyway.
Clearly they've put a lot of thought into this and actually want to combat goldselling. It's a very annoying problem, so kudos for them for doing what it takes to actually stop it.
tl:dr; This game will play exactly the same for me as every other MMO I've played because direct trade has never been a factor for me. The idea that it's a single player game because of this is beyond absurd.
Next to all these gold sellers and botters I hated those crummy beggars in MMORPGs those that would keep asking for cash in cities. Some were creative but some were plain annoying. Can't say I am not happy there will be no beggars too.
Chat is 100% Clean! There is NOTHING in regards to Goldselling and so forth. As there is no Trade, they can't make Business. Simple and it works just PERFECT. Thx DAUM for this!!! I can't recall when a Game was so awesome and NO Spam what-so-ever in the Channels. Soooo gooooood!!!
The downside of no trading - means no free global economy, no free trade, no helping your friends or guild with items/mats.
Basically as far as gear goes - everyone gets their own stuff, no getting mats for guild crafters, all that social interaction over helping others with gear is pretty much non existent.
Pretty big trade off for no spam IMO - basically everyone is in it for themselves, playing alongside others without being able to directly contribute.
Again it limits ways of playing - for example there are players that don't do anything others than play the Auction House - Black Desert eliminates that possibility.
Players that like to make a living by selling their craft services to other players - nope. Players that like to donate stuff to their guild to help out - nope. etc...
The social impact is significant - as again you realize that a lot of the interdependence is removed and what you're left with is - "solo" players playing alongside eachother, crafting, gathering, farming - doing everything for themselves.
But - no gold spam, no gold buying/selling, no gear selling via gold farmers... so you sacrifice a lot of freefom for that.
Is it worth it in the end?
That's open for debate - for my guildies it's severe enough to where they don't want to play.
For me personally - it's not a good solution since I am playing alone - BUT since I approach BD as a casual solo game - it works. I've accepted that.
And this is the nature of humanity in 2016, they allways can turn and pro into a negative..
its a system that seems to work, atleast for me it does... You just need to realise that every advantage comes with its own disadvantages... You just cant havr it all in 2016
i have been posting and begging for changes to games all my mmo carrreer, untill i realized that its better to enjoy the good things of a game instead of getting upset about the bad things
For you it works, for me it does not. This is a big reason I didnt buy the game. More negatives to me then one positive, chat free of gold spammers. I play MMOs for player interactions and over 1/2 of what I enjoy doing is removed from this game.
... but basically what you have atm is is a very nice sandboxy mmo with no gold sellers/bots/spamming, its pretty amazing. ...
I never thought I'd live to see the day where a "sandbox MMO" does not allow players to trade with or help others directly, and where all item prices are regulated by the devs !
It's pretty amazing !
I said sandboxy, not sandbox, but yeah it is a pretty amazing system they have developed in that allows players to impact the world around them and feel part of a wider community without having p2p trade.
Everyone has his own little definition of what a sandbox is. DBO is definitely mostly a sandbox with some theme park elements (quests), and I personally enjoy that mix a lot. Trading is just indirect via the AH, I can live with that even if I don't like it much.
I'm not a fan of the removal of direct player trading, mostly to give stuff (gear, resources) to friends. But yeah, it's definitely efficient, there's no gold spam at all. Still feels like we players, victims of gold spam, are paying instead of the true culprits, the gold sellers but also the asshats who buy the gold.
And everyone has an interpretation of the law. Does not make them right. Sandbox can be broken down to one thing. Can the players interaction change the world, be it PvP, crafting, story. Freedom to be creative.
BD as far as I can see has none of that. As far as I have read, people start and end in the same place. PvP does not change the world. No unique crafting. Tell me one thing you think is sandbox about BD as I see nothing.
This feels like something that they will end up changing over time. Once the normal initial changes in pop happen they will probably re-evaluate the system imo.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Every MMO has bugs / hackers / RMT ... so I fail to see again why BDO will be any different in that regard and why people are crying over this. Botting / RMT have been a major part of our MMO gaming for easily 15 years now. I never liked BDO to begin with, but I won't bash it over something no one can run away from. As some mentioned above, I'm sure 99% of the moaners here have used RMT services, so stop with your whining, it makes you look even more of a hypocrite.
So no DIRECT trading suddenly makes this a non MMO? Really? It has an AH 99% of all trading in every other MMO happens on the AH. Just because this game doesnt allow direct trading between players is almost irrelevant. The good outweighs the negative. Only ones who dont like it are trolls who dont like the game and want to complain or guys who buy gold in the first place.
Now you can maybe complain about the guild thing but if you can drop ITEMS on the ground and pick them up that is easily bypassed. Not sure as I have never played. Or if you cant then they should implement some sort of guild storage where you can put times in a box or chest and other people can pull it out. Obviously wouldnt be able to put in game currency in it but items you should be able to move around between guild mates. If you can do either of those things then there isnt an issue at all right now.
... but basically what you have atm is is a very nice sandboxy mmo with no gold sellers/bots/spamming, its pretty amazing. ...
I never thought I'd live to see the day where a "sandbox MMO" does not allow players to trade with or help others directly, and where all item prices are regulated by the devs !
It's pretty amazing !
I said sandboxy, not sandbox, but yeah it is a pretty amazing system they have developed in that allows players to impact the world around them and feel part of a wider community without having p2p trade.
This new thing that Daum is trying is not why I play, nor is trading with others a big part of my day-to-day activities in other MMOs. I'm just curious to see how it works out since, gods know, there are so many developers unwilling to think and try new things outside the box.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
WTF are all of you saying about no economy, are you absolutely crazy ? I've been trading like a motherfucker on the commodity market. It works like it does in eve online but limits players in a way that they can not do market manipulation by buying everything and selling everything.
There IS an economy, it is just "limited" to stop bots from spoiling the market.
Also, you CAN do player trading of player crafted consumables so it DOES pay off to be the best cook or fisherman or farmer or whatever.
Seriously, some people should read up and experience before blindly following hate circlejerks.
Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Guess what? It doesn't always work that way, but BDO has come very close.
You can trade player crafted items (aka economic and social component for those that are slow). There is a market board for selling and buying goods (aka economic component for those that are slow). You can also do guild contribution to help (aka social component for those that are slow). All of this can be done free of gold sellers and spammers due to the setup of the system.
All the people out there commenting with bad information need to put on their big boy pants and read up on a game before they start a Bernie Sanders QQ rally.
No matter what the game, a leveling service could always be used as well as buying and selling accounts with maxed out characters. As some players just want a maxed character and will pay for an instant one.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
While I agree there is a social impact, one can make quite a lot of money on the auction house. Was listening to a guild member talk about fishing making him a lot of money.
As far as donating, there are guild quests that basically task players to collect/harvest/etc and that contribution goes to levelign the guild.
Granted one can't gather mats for your guildmates but you can take him/her to an area, group up and get items that way.
You can't buy mats,craft and sell something because you have absolutely no control over price. No way to make money that way.
AH is essentially equal to shopping to NPC vendor...
You can still sell things you just can't set the price.
To that end there are certain food items that are constantly selling out so I know that people who are cooking are making money.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
No matter what the game, a leveling service could always be used as well as buying and selling accounts with maxed out characters. As some players just want a maxed character and will pay for an instant one.
Have to go through a lot of red tape to do it and have ID ready. email can't be changed once account is created. to change email requires the red tape.
Chat is 100% Clean! There is NOTHING in regards to Goldselling and so forth. As there is no Trade, they can't make Business. Simple and it works just PERFECT. Thx DAUM for this!!! I can't recall when a Game was so awesome and NO Spam what-so-ever in the Channels. Soooo gooooood!!!
The downside of no trading - means no free global economy, no free trade, no helping your friends or guild with items/mats.
Basically as far as gear goes - everyone gets their own stuff, no getting mats for guild crafters, all that social interaction over helping others with gear is pretty much non existent.
Pretty big trade off for no spam IMO - basically everyone is in it for themselves, playing alongside others without being able to directly contribute.
Again it limits ways of playing - for example there are players that don't do anything others than play the Auction House - Black Desert eliminates that possibility.
Players that like to make a living by selling their craft services to other players - nope. Players that like to donate stuff to their guild to help out - nope. etc...
The social impact is significant - as again you realize that a lot of the interdependence is removed and what you're left with is - "solo" players playing alongside eachother, crafting, gathering, farming - doing everything for themselves.
But - no gold spam, no gold buying/selling, no gear selling via gold farmers... so you sacrifice a lot of freefom for that.
Is it worth it in the end?
That's open for debate - for my guildies it's severe enough to where they don't want to play.
For me personally - it's not a good solution since I am playing alone - BUT since I approach BD as a casual solo game - it works. I've accepted that.
And this is the nature of humanity in 2016, they allways can turn and pro into a negative..
its a system that seems to work, atleast for me it does... You just need to realise that every advantage comes with its own disadvantages... You just cant havr it all in 2016
i have been posting and begging for changes to games all my mmo carrreer, untill i realized that its better to enjoy the good things of a game instead of getting upset about the bad things
You know how it works. If this was a feature in ArchAge, it would be the best and most intelligent solution ever.
Can't tell you how good it is not to have chat clogged up with goldsellers. It's true their has been a sacrifice for that, but it's not trade and it's not the economy. BDO has both, what it has is a planned economy, communism if you like . How much interaction you lose because of it I'm not sure, but speaking personally I feel no loss except those tits who put things on the market at five million times the going rate. Those tits are gone too! .
Unregulated economy doesn't work in mmos either. No game economy works without heavy manipulation by the development team and by adjusting founts/sinks. Some games like EVE allow players wild manipulation of the trade values. This isn't that game, but it doesn't mean a player can't find out what is sought and deliver that and make bank.
I'm sure some consumables will be highly valued. Horse breeders and certain other "craftables" will also be money makers.
We'll just have to see what works, what doesn't, and then how they adjust to that. If it means reducing or eliminating bots/gold sellers then that will be a huge plus to the system. It will only be a negative to those types that like to manipulate markets and/or sell middleman to the gold sellers.
This reminds me the quote from reddit on same topic...
When everyone is complaining about the lack of fishing boats etc on the market and how they've failed 8 times in a row on the lottery for the few that do go up for sale, I'm just going to link this thread.
That plus the irrational thought processes that RMT will destroy the game once you see a single person spamming general chat makes this discussion a losing battle.
I'm a huge fan of trading and codependency in MMO's. In fact, that is what made Star Wars Galaxies so much fun. However, times have changed and gold farming is almost as lucrative as the MMO's themselves. While it's easy to turn off chat and ignore gold farmers, they do in fact ruin games they exist on. What difference does it make if you have a free trade economy if you have gold farmers that play 20 hours a day completely screwing up the economy. While some of you are all saying you'll pass on the concept behind BDO's anti gold selling mechanics, I for one, along with my entire guild couldn't agree more that it's more beneficial than a hindrance.
Doesn't mean it's a revolutionary discovery, but this is the first time it's been implemented in such a way that it actually works and it works well. If you don't agree, that's perfectly fine. I expect a lot of people don't like the idea of minimal trading. I however detest gold farmers / sellers and it's actually far more enjoyable to play a game that isn't filled with BOTs stealing all the resource nodes and mob grinding areas.
1) Please do provide some evidence or at least some support of any kind that gold farmers ruin games or economy.
2) BDO economy work..? It was released in 3 regions already and in no region it actualy "works". The controlled market is completely messed up, setting up higher prices for mats than is the crafted item, limitations and high taxes killing any incentives for trade, etc.
3) Because only 3rd party RMT are botting, right...?
I can understand you are hyped for the game but...c'mon...
I was totally uninterested by this title until I stumbled on this thread. Finally an MMO without those cancerous RMT douchebags. Brilliant ! Still won't touch it cause it has a cash shop but I applaud the effort.
While I agree there is a social impact, one can make quite a lot of money on the auction house. Was listening to a guild member talk about fishing making him a lot of money.
As far as donating, there are guild quests that basically task players to collect/harvest/etc and that contribution goes to levelign the guild.
Granted one can't gather mats for your guildmates but you can take him/her to an area, group up and get items that way.
You can't buy mats,craft and sell something because you have absolutely no control over price. No way to make money that way.
AH is essentially equal to shopping to NPC vendor...
That doesn't make any sense. If I sell something in the AH and it is going for less than I put in to make it then I make money. One might not be able to make the zillions they want to make but I'm still going to make money.
In any case, food and potions will be the good way to make money in the game as they are desirable.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sovrath said: That doesn't make any sense. If I sell something in the AH and it is going for less than I put in to make it then I make money. One might not be able to make the zillions they want to make but I'm still going to make money.
In any case, food and potions will be the good way to make money in the game as they are desirable.
...or instead you can just go AFK fishing and sell to vendor.
That is a root issue - incentives.
Once you start regulating the market and money one can make(communism), you remove the vital part, the driving force of the economy, and society, the incentive to work - you are not rewarded for working harder or better.
There it goes full circle - desired items you speak of are only desirable if their price reflects supply and demand, creating incentives to produce more of those items, however this concept does not work in BDO. There is no free economy, prices are set by regulator.
All in all, it isn't about trade restrictions being a "bad thing", it is about being utterly pointless - you only lose by doing so.
Problem is definitely with the developer.Their anti hack measures have always been awful in Korean games. What is worse anyone that is remotely paying attention to their own product could clearly see their measures do not and have never worked.What has been the response of Korean developers?They simply couldn't give a flying leaping lizard.
I would not doubt even one remote bit they are involved with the rmt,this has in the past been a PROVEN point and i actually watched a TV interview as such back several years ago.The interview that all about RMT in gaming,the spokesperson for what was the giant in rmt business,i believe it was called IGE.What struck me as odd was that IGE brought along a lawyer to make sure they did not say anything that might bind them legally.Well sure enough a question was asked and the lawyer stepped in to say his client could not answer that question ..lmao.
Anyhow,what came of it was that IGE a rmt giant was coercing with devs/publishers and at that time a lot of the speculation was with Lineage/2.I did my own research back then,cross tracing IP's and owners subsidiaries and what i found was that NCSOFT was definitely guilty of some shotty business operations.IGE ended up buying what was a large operation website for gaming,Allakazam and a lot of news and speculation arose from that purchase.
Wiz, what does ANY of this have to do with Pearl Abyss? I mean no offense but you seem like you're going off on a tirade here buddy. A tangent if you will, and it's off topic.
Comments
People are acting like MMOs usually have a barter system where crafters are trading chickens for ore- that's never how it works.
And I don't know who you guys were friends with but I've never been twinked out by a friend. I've always had to earn my own stuff and it's more fun that way anyway.
Clearly they've put a lot of thought into this and actually want to combat goldselling. It's a very annoying problem, so kudos for them for doing what it takes to actually stop it.
tl:dr; This game will play exactly the same for me as every other MMO I've played because direct trade has never been a factor for me. The idea that it's a single player game because of this is beyond absurd.
BD as far as I can see has none of that. As far as I have read, people start and end in the same place. PvP does not change the world. No unique crafting. Tell me one thing you think is sandbox about BD as I see nothing.
Now you can maybe complain about the guild thing but if you can drop ITEMS on the ground and pick them up that is easily bypassed. Not sure as I have never played. Or if you cant then they should implement some sort of guild storage where you can put times in a box or chest and other people can pull it out. Obviously wouldnt be able to put in game currency in it but items you should be able to move around between guild mates. If you can do either of those things then there isnt an issue at all right now.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There IS an economy, it is just "limited" to stop bots from spoiling the market.
Also, you CAN do player trading of player crafted consumables so it DOES pay off to be the best cook or fisherman or farmer or whatever.
Seriously, some people should read up and experience before blindly following hate circlejerks.
You can trade player crafted items (aka economic and social component for those that are slow). There is a market board for selling and buying goods (aka economic component for those that are slow). You can also do guild contribution to help (aka social component for those that are slow). All of this can be done free of gold sellers and spammers due to the setup of the system.
All the people out there commenting with bad information need to put on their big boy pants and read up on a game before they start a Bernie Sanders QQ rally.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
To that end there are certain food items that are constantly selling out so I know that people who are cooking are making money.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Have to go through a lot of red tape to do it and have ID ready. email can't be changed once account is created. to change email requires the red tape.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
If this was a feature in ArchAge, it would be the best and most intelligent solution ever.
That plus the irrational thought processes that RMT will destroy the game once you see a single person spamming general chat makes this discussion a losing battle.
Edited 15 January by Diggertonhttp://black-desert.com/articles/polleconomy/
2) BDO economy work..? It was released in 3 regions already and in no region it actualy "works". The controlled market is completely messed up, setting up higher prices for mats than is the crafted item, limitations and high taxes killing any incentives for trade, etc.
3) Because only 3rd party RMT are botting, right...?
I can understand you are hyped for the game but...c'mon...
Finally an MMO without those cancerous RMT douchebags. Brilliant !
Still won't touch it cause it has a cash shop but I applaud the effort.
In any case, food and potions will be the good way to make money in the game as they are desirable.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That is a root issue - incentives.
Once you start regulating the market and money one can make(communism), you remove the vital part, the driving force of the economy, and society, the incentive to work - you are not rewarded for working harder or better.
There it goes full circle - desired items you speak of are only desirable if their price reflects supply and demand, creating incentives to produce more of those items, however this concept does not work in BDO. There is no free economy, prices are set by regulator.
All in all, it isn't about trade restrictions being a "bad thing", it is about being utterly pointless - you only lose by doing so.