Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if we all experience our next "Ironforge moment" in Ironforge ... again. The year is 2020, World of Warcraft 2 is being released to the world. Everything has been overhauled into a completely different -- and visually stunning -- game, that revolutionizes the genre ... again. Lol I'd pay money to see that, if I didn't die from laughing first.
Well, that article should be a real winner with the crowd on this site. xD
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Wouldn't it be hilariously ironic if we all experience our next "Ironforge moment" in Ironforge ... again. The year is 2020, World of Warcraft 2 is being released to the world. Everything has been overhauled into a completely different -- and visually stunning -- game, that revolutionizes the genre ... again. Lol I'd pay money to see that, if I didn't die from laughing first.
Blizzard's motto in recent years has obviously been "invest less, milk more" -so i guess in 2020 they will be down to cheap to develop Warcraft-themed mobile games including highly addictive concepts.
Well, that article should be a real winner with the crowd on this site. xD
I'm sure wizardry is loving it.First decent article on this site in years!They must have made enough money from all the corporate CEOs paying for advertisements here.
It's been awhile since I felt truly captivated by an MMORPG. You probably feel the same way too.
It's true that it's been a while since an MMO captivated me, but not since a game captivated me. I've played many fantastic games over the past couple of years while companies kept rolling out horrible MMO's.
Titanfall, Hearthstone, World of Tanks, Witcher 3, Fallout 3/NV/4, FarCry 3/4, CIV 5, Alien Isolation, Shadows of Mordor, Mad Max... ect.
My main problem with MMO's is partially personal and partially the genre. I'm a graphics snob, so if a game doesn't look pretty darn good, then I'm not really interested in it. The games that have been coming out over the past few years that looked good, have had terrible game mechanics. The games that have been released in the same time period that sound fascinating make my eyes bleed when I pop onto their web site.
Why can't there be an Uncharted Water's Online that doesn't look like a kindergarten crayon project? Where's the version of A Tale in the Desert that doesn't look like Doom... the first Doom?
Maybe, perhaps BDO will be the game I want. It certainly has the graphics, and the more I hear about the game mechanics the more interested I am. I guess I'll just have to swallow the pill of flashy, flippy dodgy, jumpity jump, mid-air backwards roll dodge, *SWISH* combat in order to play a game that fits at least two of my must haves. Oh right, they're stuck in the 1990's with their force fed gender locking. Sighhhh, I can't win.
We will see. One thing I've found over the years is that game companies say alot of things. Until they deliver what they say they will, I will remain doubtful it will happen.
I've always defined "Ironforge moment" completely differently. My reaction to stepping foot inside Ironforge was "look at all this freaking wasted space. This is extremely inefficient and poorly laid out." And so many years later... nothing has changed.
Until a company gets off the hype train and gets away from years of development MMOs will never rebound. Games are old before they get released these days. But these companies are caught in a circle of hype versus release and they know once the game releases it will be a failure, so fear makes them stay in perpetual development selling early access and alpha and beta and special packages trying to get as much money up front as they can.
If a company could figure a way to put out something playable (something that had 30-60 days worth of decent 'content' and was then able to put out something else after 60-90 days that gave people another 60-90 days of content' or feature and did that, the 5 years they wasted in development and hype would build a damn fine game, I have been harping on that point for years now. That way the game will age naturally and it will be old after those 5 years not old after it is finally released 5 years after announcing it.
These guys always used to 'can' stuff and they still do but people arent going to keep waiting for years for games to release, and that waiting builds up the expectations way too high. Announce a game when you have something 99% playable, then release it early access, make a few bucks, add some decent content, call it beta then have the caned stuff ready for the 'oficial' release. Then a few months after that release something else, call it DLC call it updates call it whatever, but add content (fr free) a few times then after a year have a full blown expansion and charge for it.
ARK is doing something like that now, it just depends on when the game is officially released how much content and updates are done and whether they will be free or not.
While no one will be able to keep up with players burning content it makes a lot more sense releasing a partially done game (they all are anyway even after 5 or 7 years) and making some money and adding to the game than sitting there begging for hand outs and developing a game and hoping the hype pays for it.
I absolutely agree with this article!! And if I may add a little something; Nothing, and I mean NOTHING has made MMORPG's go stale for me more than linear gearing/looting..... I am so tired of every MMORPG forcing me to wear one, or if I'm lucky :O 3 different end game weapon choices.... I should be able to choose from at least 20 different weapons, and armors (some class specific, some not), and in a perfect world, every item would have RNG stats much like Diablo loot. But nooooo, most people would complain about that because "it's too hard" or "it's too grindy".... then go play BNS plebs.... That game is the epitome of what this article is about. It is HORRIBLE. Yet, plebs all over can't seem to get enough, because boob mechanics.... Shallow, mindless drones. I dare any one of you to go play Everquest for a week and make it past lvl 20. Most of you kids aren't smart enough to figure out how to get out of the starting map. HAHA!
I have been playing Black Desert Online for a few days and can say I am loving every minute of this game. For me its like the developers have taken every aspect of what makes a great mmo (for me at least) over the past 29 years since Meridian and put it into one beautiful mmorpg.
Yes you have your generic kill quests but other than that the cities feel alive ( I say this because I went to one npc at night who had given me a quest. Imagine my surprise when I saw a sign saying he would return in the daytime.) , the crafting system makes sense for a change. Guild wars and territories are in the game as well as player housing. I can even own a boat and trade items between islands and port or just go fishing out in the ocean.
I am sick and tired of the games that try to be WoW though, games such as Blade and Soul, Neverwinter, SWTOR the list goes on. The game formula over and over again with quest hubs and server wide auction houses. Reach level 10 and you have to leave an area to progress. Games like UO, SWG and even Black Desert now I am not forced to move to a new area.
Many moons ago there was a game in development called Warhammer Fantasy. It was canceled and the license was given to Mythic/EA to make. The ideas based in the original Warhammer Fantasy game were unique and came from the old pnp RPG. That game would of broken the WoW mold and formula with its skill system and crafting.
I agree nearly on all aspects of OP. Great Ironforge, big space between AH and bank, Stormwind also great, ... still my first big city in Wow was Darnasus, will never forget that exitement upon looking to this fabled city of Elves.
For the rest, I agree to MMO world could happen what happened in 80. In last years there is flood of terribly mediocre, trash, bad, MMOs, but as for many being free is best feature in any game, we have much less players in really great MMOs. I'm also many times inclined to try other games but when i realize some game is trash, I will go after hour or week at max.
So far, I can't find any game out there that I can enjoy even remotely close to this list: SWTOR (currently my no.1), WOW, GW2, Rift.
Good article that reflect the infamous state of mmorpgs in these latest years.
Themepark games are always based on the capitalistic model like WoW, and are become stagnating antisocial experiences, infact you can't call these "mmorpg" anymore but "instanced brawlers".
Hub quest linear progression is the worst mechanic in this trend along with gear based progression and instances as end game.
These mechanics, expecially quest and story force you to go alone from the start till the end. End game is just farming of gear into the same redundant instances, dungeons ,battlegrund, arenas, that you farm 24/7.
In these games also death mean nothing because they put you into the hero that should save the world, the reward is just achievements and troopies.
You feel empty and shallow when you play these wow clones (not only western but korean themepark too).
As you said the future is the return of full social sandbox mmorpgs like UO but in a modern vision, Crowfall, Albion, Lif:MMO, and i add Darkfall:New Dawn too.
Is almost a year that i don't touch a F2P wow clone themepark anymore. For me the future are indie sandboxes where sociality, friendship and freedom matters, so no levels, no farming for the uber gear, no RNG, no instances.
A world completely player driven, with risk vs reward and consequences for your own actions.
Good article that reflect the infamous state of mmorpgs in these latest years.
Themepark games are always based on the capitalistic model like WoW, and are become stagnating antisocial experiences, infact you can't call these "mmorpg" anymore but "instanced brawlers".
Hub quest linear progression is the worst mechanic in this trend along with gear based progression and instances as end game.
These mechanics, expecially quest and story force you to go alone from the start till the end. End game is just farming of gear into the same redundant instances, dungeons ,battlegrund, arenas, that you farm 24/7.
In these games also death mean nothing because they put you into the hero that should save the world, the reward is just achievements and troopies.
You feel empty and shallow when you play these wow clones (not only western but korean themepark too).
As you said the future is the return of full social sandbox mmorpgs like UO but in a modern vision, Crowfall, Albion, Lif:MMO, and i add Darkfall:New Dawn too.
Is almost a year that i don't touch a F2P wow clone themepark anymore. For me the future are indie sandboxes where sociality, friendship and freedom matters, so no levels, no farming for the uber gear, no RNG, no instances.
A world completely player driven, with risk vs reward and consequences for your own actions.
Same boar for me, I can't handle cash shop garbage games any more. Thats why I only play EMU MMOS.
Someone should write a requiem for MMOs, I suppose. But only the newest players see any remaining hope.
Unfortunately for the industry, there is no battle.net waiting to create an enormous flood of brand new western mmorpg players in one tasty wave, not this time around.
They could always do the massive asian market crossover thang; except that's much more difficult to accomplish than it is to dream about.
I'm not waiting for the "MMO Apocalypse", because it will never come.
The genre is evolving slowly, and every few years there's a new MMO that grabs my attention, money and time. I skip many MMO releases, in fact I've still not played WoW, lol
In between the "good" MMO's there's a constant stream of good SPG's to keep me entertained (many with multiplayer and co-op), along with some really fun MMOFPS's in recent years.
I'm quite happy, I have more games to play than the time to play them...
I don't know if apocalypse is the right word, but MMORPGs are definitely in a slump. For me even the ones scheduled to come out don't look like they will fulfill my MMORPG requirements. Games like Crowfall look like they will be good, but more MMO than MMORPG.
I think there is a real opportunity for the company that does make a good MMORPG, which is why I decided to start Esc Realities. This is a MS Windows, WoW moment waiting to happen.
After what happened with SWG I kind of lost hope when WoW was still considered the Standard. Then a few years ago I caught wind of Citadel of Sorcery and have been following that. A lot of players at the time were behaving like self entitled little princesses and criticized ... wait for it.. The clearly marked "Pre-Alpha" Graphics.... Now a few years have passed and The Devs have kept those of us who followed the development in the loop and personally.. When I look at what is out there. and what is in development. The only game I can see pushing an apocalypse even close is Citadel of Sorcery. With everything MMOMagic are doing nothing can hold a candle to it.. So what comes next?
The apocalypse.
I've always defined "Ironforge moment" completely differently. My reaction to stepping foot inside Ironforge was "look at all this freaking wasted space. This is extremely inefficient and poorly laid out." And so many years later... nothing has changed.
Guess you never venture out into the real world then. Have you ever been to a mall? Tons of wasted space.
In a way Black Desert has done this for me, given me my "Ironforge" moment again. Not because its something new and groundbreaking but for the very opposite reason, its gone back to the old school roots of games like Ashen Empires (Dransik) and Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies (Pre CU).
I look at the last ten years as the dumbing down of the genre, the Candy Crush gimme now for money I'm entitled because I spend a dollar on your app attitude, and not about the journey of wonder.
There are to many MMO's out there, the player base is spread too thin. MMO makers started trying to target every audience instead of the niche, and then the niche bringing others into the fold organically.
Money and marketing are the life and death of the dreamers.
Isn't Black Desert as solo centric as it is even possible for a MMO? The other players could just be AI controlled NPCs it wouldn't make a different since you never need to interact with them in any way, there is no group content, no trading really nothing that you couldn't just do in a single player game.
In a way Black Desert has done this for me, given me my "Ironforge" moment again. Not because its something new and groundbreaking but for the very opposite reason, its gone back to the old school roots of games like Ashen Empires (Dransik) and Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies (Pre CU).
I look at the last ten years as the dumbing down of the genre, the Candy Crush gimme now for money I'm entitled because I spend a dollar on your app attitude, and not about the journey of wonder.
There are to many MMO's out there, the player base is spread too thin. MMO makers started trying to target every audience instead of the niche, and then the niche bringing others into the fold organically.
Money and marketing are the life and death of the dreamers.
Isn't Black Desert as solo centric as it is even possible for a MMO? The other players could just be AI controlled NPCs it wouldn't make a different since you never need to interact with them in any way, there is no group content, no trading really nothing that you couldn't just do in a single player game.
I read about one player jumping off his horse and helping another player that was swamped. I would call that interacting. Can't you talk and play with other players ? Does the game stop you from doing that ?
"f you're aware of the video game crash of the '80s, when the market became so clogged with copycats and "me too's" that a booming 3 billion dollar industry collapsed into a mere 100 million dollar industry, you'll start to see how closely the broad strokes match what we're seeing happening with MMORPGs today. Coin-op titles were becoming arbitrarily harder and harder in order to pull quarters from your wallet—sound familiar to the proliferation of microtransactions that can make games more "convenient"? But what followed that terrible crash was something amazing: a renaissance of video game form brought forth by Nintendo that catapulted video games into a whole new frontier."
Thoughtful article, stimulated some thinking here I do believe. However, like many aspects of our lives today, we can see this "corporitization" and monopolization of ideas as trends "we as consumers" are more or less forced to buy this rehashed "stuff". As the above paragraph observes historically it can and often does fail. Thus is this prophetic? Possibility, but maybe it isn't necessarily inevitable. It depends on our understanding of past and how that effects us today and what we implement today shapes the future of mmo's in general.
In the doom and gloom of the American/European outlook today there is still hope if we choose to seek that truth. How often in the past 5 to 8 years have we read and discussed that this genre is dead or dying? Too many to count, really. How many people globally still log onto some type of mmo or variation on the theme? I believe millions. Thus, to my way of looking at it, mmo's aren't dead yet. As the above suggests, they are somewhat copying each other. Just look at the current batch of survivalist "sandbox" style mmo's as an example. Are they different? Depends on your point of view and experience in the mmo.
MMO's are still in development, just not as many "true mmo's". It isn't easy, as so many. many folks have now tried and played the likes of the older "golden age" mmo's such as Ultima Online and EverQuest to name a couple of the most mentioned on this forum. What do we really want for our future mmo's? That is as diverse as the people that discuss such things here. Truly that's not a bad thing. We that still experience should continue if we find value in what we are experiencing. We should hold in hope that one day fairly soon, or sooner than we might think it is possible that there is an mmo in development or at the planning stages that may just bring some of, (not all) us to a new idea of what mmo's in the next decade will become...
Thanks for a good article and an opportunity for me to share my thoughts here!
Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Comments
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Blizzard's motto in recent years has obviously been "invest less, milk more" -so i guess in 2020 they will be down to cheap to develop Warcraft-themed mobile games including highly addictive concepts.
I'm sure wizardry is loving it.First decent article on this site in years!They must have made enough money from all the corporate CEOs paying for advertisements here.
Titanfall, Hearthstone, World of Tanks, Witcher 3, Fallout 3/NV/4, FarCry 3/4, CIV 5, Alien Isolation, Shadows of Mordor, Mad Max... ect.
My main problem with MMO's is partially personal and partially the genre. I'm a graphics snob, so if a game doesn't look pretty darn good, then I'm not really interested in it. The games that have been coming out over the past few years that looked good, have had terrible game mechanics. The games that have been released in the same time period that sound fascinating make my eyes bleed when I pop onto their web site.
Why can't there be an Uncharted Water's Online that doesn't look like a kindergarten crayon project? Where's the version of A Tale in the Desert that doesn't look like Doom... the first Doom?
Maybe, perhaps BDO will be the game I want. It certainly has the graphics, and the more I hear about the game mechanics the more interested I am. I guess I'll just have to swallow the pill of flashy, flippy dodgy, jumpity jump, mid-air backwards roll dodge, *SWISH* combat in order to play a game that fits at least two of my must haves. Oh right, they're stuck in the 1990's with their force fed gender locking. Sighhhh, I can't win.
If a company could figure a way to put out something playable (something that had 30-60 days worth of decent 'content' and was then able to put out something else after 60-90 days that gave people another 60-90 days of content' or feature and did that, the 5 years they wasted in development and hype would build a damn fine game, I have been harping on that point for years now. That way the game will age naturally and it will be old after those 5 years not old after it is finally released 5 years after announcing it.
These guys always used to 'can' stuff and they still do but people arent going to keep waiting for years for games to release, and that waiting builds up the expectations way too high. Announce a game when you have something 99% playable, then release it early access, make a few bucks, add some decent content, call it beta then have the caned stuff ready for the 'oficial' release. Then a few months after that release something else, call it DLC call it updates call it whatever, but add content (fr free) a few times then after a year have a full blown expansion and charge for it.
ARK is doing something like that now, it just depends on when the game is officially released how much content and updates are done and whether they will be free or not.
While no one will be able to keep up with players burning content it makes a lot more sense releasing a partially done game (they all are anyway even after 5 or 7 years) and making some money and adding to the game than sitting there begging for hand outs and developing a game and hoping the hype pays for it.
Yes you have your generic kill quests but other than that the cities feel alive ( I say this because I went to one npc at night who had given me a quest. Imagine my surprise when I saw a sign saying he would return in the daytime.) , the crafting system makes sense for a change. Guild wars and territories are in the game as well as player housing. I can even own a boat and trade items between islands and port or just go fishing out in the ocean.
I am sick and tired of the games that try to be WoW though, games such as Blade and Soul, Neverwinter, SWTOR the list goes on. The game formula over and over again with quest hubs and server wide auction houses. Reach level 10 and you have to leave an area to progress. Games like UO, SWG and even Black Desert now I am not forced to move to a new area.
Many moons ago there was a game in development called Warhammer Fantasy. It was canceled and the license was given to Mythic/EA to make. The ideas based in the original Warhammer Fantasy game were unique and came from the old pnp RPG. That game would of broken the WoW mold and formula with its skill system and crafting.
For the rest, I agree to MMO world could happen what happened in 80. In last years there is flood of terribly mediocre, trash, bad, MMOs, but as for many being free is best feature in any game, we have much less players in really great MMOs. I'm also many times inclined to try other games but when i realize some game is trash, I will go after hour or week at max.
So far, I can't find any game out there that I can enjoy even remotely close to this list: SWTOR (currently my no.1), WOW, GW2, Rift.
Themepark games are always based on the capitalistic model like WoW, and are become stagnating antisocial experiences, infact you can't call these "mmorpg" anymore but "instanced brawlers".
Hub quest linear progression is the worst mechanic in this trend along with gear based progression and instances as end game.
These mechanics, expecially quest and story force you to go alone from the start till the end. End game is just farming of gear into the same redundant instances, dungeons ,battlegrund, arenas, that you farm 24/7.
In these games also death mean nothing because they put you into the hero that should save the world, the reward is just achievements and troopies.
You feel empty and shallow when you play these wow clones (not only western but korean themepark too).
As you said the future is the return of full social sandbox mmorpgs like UO but in a modern vision, Crowfall, Albion, Lif:MMO, and i add Darkfall:New Dawn too.
Is almost a year that i don't touch a F2P wow clone themepark anymore. For me the future are indie sandboxes where sociality, friendship and freedom matters, so no levels, no farming for the uber gear, no RNG, no instances. A world completely player driven, with risk vs reward and consequences for your own actions.
Crowfall - LiF: MMO - Darkfall: New Dawn
Unfortunately for the industry, there is no battle.net waiting to create an enormous flood of brand new western mmorpg players in one tasty wave, not this time around.
They could always do the massive asian market crossover thang; except that's much more difficult to accomplish than it is to dream about.
People.
The genre is evolving slowly, and every few years there's a new MMO that grabs my attention, money and time. I skip many MMO releases, in fact I've still not played WoW, lol
In between the "good" MMO's there's a constant stream of good SPG's to keep me entertained (many with multiplayer and co-op), along with some really fun MMOFPS's in recent years.
I'm quite happy, I have more games to play than the time to play them...
I think there is a real opportunity for the company that does make a good MMORPG, which is why I decided to start Esc Realities. This is a MS Windows, WoW moment waiting to happen.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
Isn't Black Desert as solo centric as it is even possible for a MMO? The other players could just be AI controlled NPCs it wouldn't make a different since you never need to interact with them in any way, there is no group content, no trading really nothing that you couldn't just do in a single player game.
Thoughtful article, stimulated some thinking here I do believe. However, like many aspects of our lives today, we can see this "corporitization" and monopolization of ideas as trends "we as consumers" are more or less forced to buy this rehashed "stuff". As the above paragraph observes historically it can and often does fail. Thus is this prophetic? Possibility, but maybe it isn't necessarily inevitable. It depends on our understanding of past and how that effects us today and what we implement today shapes the future of mmo's in general.
In the doom and gloom of the American/European outlook today there is still hope if we choose to seek that truth. How often in the past 5 to 8 years have we read and discussed that this genre is dead or dying? Too many to count, really. How many people globally still log onto some type of mmo or variation on the theme? I believe millions. Thus, to my way of looking at it, mmo's aren't dead yet. As the above suggests, they are somewhat copying each other. Just look at the current batch of survivalist "sandbox" style mmo's as an example. Are they different? Depends on your point of view and experience in the mmo.
MMO's are still in development, just not as many "true mmo's". It isn't easy, as so many. many folks have now tried and played the likes of the older "golden age" mmo's such as Ultima Online and EverQuest to name a couple of the most mentioned on this forum. What do we really want for our future mmo's? That is as diverse as the people that discuss such things here. Truly that's not a bad thing. We that still experience should continue if we find value in what we are experiencing. We should hold in hope that one day fairly soon, or sooner than we might think it is possible that there is an mmo in development or at the planning stages that may just bring some of, (not all) us to a new idea of what mmo's in the next decade will become...
Thanks for a good article and an opportunity for me to share my thoughts here!
Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon