The tired bullet sponge mechanic complaint with ZERO insight as to how you'd fix it. Like I haven't heard this from a thousand different people who also couldn't give a reasonable alternative to increasing difficulty based on group size.
Please don't be like all of the other useless drones that don't have the mental capacity to form an intelligent response.
Ok. Solution: make them not bullet-spongey.
I think bullet-spongey is just fun word-hype. Granted, I haven't been much further than the starting zone, but even in the beta, there were a couple people who took more bullets than others. If we're comparing to, say, Destiny then I think it's a bit of a stretch. I can appreciate the want for greater realism in games, but that can also make it exceedingly annoying.... Like when you get one-shot yourself. We've all seen the rage videos on youtube of people getting one-shot in PvP. Now just imagine that all over the place.
Don't really have a problem with the game itself but do have a problem with games launching with very little content and then trying to sell me DLC's because there was little content to start with. If you consider it an MMO it should at least have a min of about 6 months content at launch or IMO it is a failure just trying to get money.
Which MMO launched with 6-months of content? Do tell... Honestly, I rarely see them come out with more than 30 or 40 hours, but probably more like 10 or 12 depending on how dedicated you are to getting there quickly.
You would know there was 6.4 mill players who played the game actively in beta. Is there 6.4 now no 1 knows wait 1 month and then talk your shit
Even if the beta had a billion players, still the game is mostly co-op gameplay. Read and comprehend my reference to online chess or online poker. Millions technically connect to the servers, yet your actual gameplay experience is limited to meet and play along with only a couple of players, which to me is not massive.
So what would you consider massive 100 500 thousands million. Like I said there can be 200 players even on pve map. Dark zone same thing. Or you was expecting thousands of player on 1 server. Even most mmos now days has diff channels in 1 server. I probably shouldn't consider wow or bns a mostly ffxiv an mmo. Ffxiv is probably an mmorpg hmm.or swtor for example. Please do educate us with why division isn't an mmo. I'd love to hear your conclusion to this.
I think Bill is missing quite a bit here. After playing through the first few missions (on normal and hard mode) and checking out a lot of the "side content" while the main "story" content is definitely content that would be required for "completion" a lot of the "side content" adds to the story substantially. I think what Ubi did here, is they fleshed out the stories scope and gave it a wide margin so you could accumulate "data" on what has happened and what is happening in this "new" New York.
Recordings here, investigative data there, and of course echoes which are an interesting in themselves -- it is pretty deep at what lengths they've fleshed out the world and story in general.
As for the bullet sponge... there are two avenues here... 1) its an RPG... yes its a tom clancy game set in a realistic setting, but first and foremost it's an RPG. While that does lend itself some leeway with the amount of damage opponents can take.. the type of game mode you're playing matters just as much. 2) Normal mode is much more forgiving. If you spec for mostly damage and are using the weapons properly (focus headshots with marksman rifles, shotguns for mostly close range, steady aim with assault and machine guns, critical chance for SMGs) its fairly simple to drop multiple trash opponents in a few shots. Sometimes in 1 shot if you are good at sniping. Damage bonuses help with the stronger mobs, like the cover boost and radar pulse.
Hard Mode Mobs... they are challenging.. especially with the AI the way it is now. They will rush you, they will flank you... they do substantially more damage and yes, they are more bullet spongey to accommodate that harder difficulty level. In absence of that, you lower your threat ratio substantially too. Enemies that die in 1 or 2 shots from any weapon in a cover shooter would give way too much advantage to the player. Consider that players can drop down turrets that generally are used as cover fire, they would be the ultimate weapon. You would negate the usage of the gun types as well -- pretty much turning this into a general shooter with little to no gear factored qualities.
Compare a game like this to Gears of War. That was a shooter... it had no upgradeable abilities, and yes, in certain circumstances, with the right weapons, you could get 1 hit kills -- mostly. The harder enemies were always Bullet Sponge enemies. When you increased the difficulty, it didn't increase anything other than damage done to the player and the amount of damage each enemy took to where many enemies did become more bullet spongey.
It seems much more out of place in a conventional shooter.. much less so in a game geared as an RPG.
As for the amount of players in the DZ, I don't think anyone has numbers on that yet. The brackets are changing so quickly, and while its never felt empty, and it seems like there are more people in it than when I was in beta, In most MMO's, apart from towns, I rarely run into more than 15 people.
In a small safe house alone I've counted 20 players. Thats in an instance with the size equivalence of a living room. In that situation it looked packed. I've never seen that many people in a grouped area in the DZ since beta.
It would be nice to see other teams in the world. It feels pretty empty now. Have not made it to the DZ yet as we are taking our time leveling up.
Maybe allow a certain number of people in the same world so you don't see them constantly.
Love this game. Sure, there are a handful of sidequests that are basically the same in each "zone" but the higher the level I get, the harder the AI gets, and it's not about more hp for bullet sponge issues. I just did a mission to turn the power back on in Times Square and had to hold of about 3 waves of enemies, with the last 2 being a mini boss and a boss, both snipers, both 1 shot me a few times until I changed my tactics and went to higher ground where I could create a choke point. Dropped my turret to act as a mini tank and then popped enemies off as they came out. Last 2 guys came out and I used my sniper rifle with a high fire rate and was able, mostly by luck, to pop them in the head really quickly and they dropped really fast. It was AWESOME! All solo, mind you, as I just like the challenge playing solo gives me. I'll probably try those missions later with friends in groups for variety.
I always considered Massively in MMORPG to mean the sheer size of the game, usually implying a "world" of things to do. The multiplayer part is already there, no need to denote whether it's 2 or more with an extra word. Even better is when massively applies to the size of the game world, and MMORPGs do, by the end of their life cycle become massive games in both size of the game world as well as content/mechanics/features.
Do ALL your main missions on HARD with full party of four. The Bullet Sponginess is there because the fight mechanics are trinity based and require teamwork and synergy. Do not treat this game like an FPS. They did a great job making combat meaningful and incorporating a dungeon boss encounter feel into a cgame with 1st person fps mechanics. Game feels more like a traditional trinity based mmo than all these other action combat craptastic asian ports.
So Battlefield 1 2 3 4 are mmo's to nowday's
Nothing new here move on.
So Battlefield has skills, talents and perks for players to unlock ? It has crafting that creates items with randomized stats ? It has quests with rewards ? It has a central story that ties all the quests together ? You can level-up your character in "solo mode" and then take that character to PVP matches when you feel you are strong enough ?
Division is not a classic MMORPG, but then again, the current trend is move away from the old ways of doing things and trying new combinations. TD is not the first mashup and it won't be the last.
I think Bill is missing quite a bit here. After playing through the first few missions (on normal and hard mode) and checking out a lot of the "side content" while the main "story" content is definitely content that would be required for "completion" a lot of the "side content" adds to the story substantially. I think what Ubi did here, is they fleshed out the stories scope and gave it a wide margin so you could accumulate "data" on what has happened and what is happening in this "new" New York.
Recordings here, investigative data there, and of course echoes which are an interesting in themselves -- it is pretty deep at what lengths they've fleshed out the world and story in general.
As for the bullet sponge... there are two avenues here... 1) its an RPG... yes its a tom clancy game set in a realistic setting, but first and foremost it's an RPG. While that does lend itself some leeway with the amount of damage opponents can take.. the type of game mode you're playing matters just as much. 2) Normal mode is much more forgiving. If you spec for mostly damage and are using the weapons properly (focus headshots with marksman rifles, shotguns for mostly close range, steady aim with assault and machine guns, critical chance for SMGs) its fairly simple to drop multiple trash opponents in a few shots. Sometimes in 1 shot if you are good at sniping. Damage bonuses help with the stronger mobs, like the cover boost and radar pulse.
Hard Mode Mobs... they are challenging.. especially with the AI the way it is now. They will rush you, they will flank you... they do substantially more damage and yes, they are more bullet spongey to accommodate that harder difficulty level. In absence of that, you lower your threat ratio substantially too. Enemies that die in 1 or 2 shots from any weapon in a cover shooter would give way too much advantage to the player. Consider that players can drop down turrets that generally are used as cover fire, they would be the ultimate weapon. You would negate the usage of the gun types as well -- pretty much turning this into a general shooter with little to no gear factored qualities.
Compare a game like this to Gears of War. That was a shooter... it had no upgradeable abilities, and yes, in certain circumstances, with the right weapons, you could get 1 hit kills -- mostly. The harder enemies were always Bullet Sponge enemies. When you increased the difficulty, it didn't increase anything other than damage done to the player and the amount of damage each enemy took to where many enemies did become more bullet spongey.
It seems much more out of place in a conventional shooter.. much less so in a game geared as an RPG.
As for the amount of players in the DZ, I don't think anyone has numbers on that yet. The brackets are changing so quickly, and while its never felt empty, and it seems like there are more people in it than when I was in beta, In most MMO's, apart from towns, I rarely run into more than 15 people.
In a small safe house alone I've counted 20 players. Thats in an instance with the size equivalence of a living room. In that situation it looked packed. I've never seen that many people in a grouped area in the DZ since beta.
Agree 100%
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I'm calling this sorta MMO genre of game a "Hybrid MMO" or "Hybrid Genre MMO". Since it's a FPS shooter and a RPG, but also somewhat dovetails with MMO's. Let's see what the game industry starts to call it when a few more games start to appear like this one and like Destiny.
Don't really have a problem with the game itself but do have a problem with games launching with very little content and then trying to sell me DLC's because there was little content to start with. If you consider it an MMO it should at least have a min of about 6 months content at launch or IMO it is a failure just trying to get money.
Which MMO launched with 6-months of content? Do tell... Honestly, I rarely see them come out with more than 30 or 40 hours, but probably more like 10 or 12 depending on how dedicated you are to getting there quickly.
And there in itself is a problem don't you think. But if you can reach the mythical endgame within a day the game is crap. And rushing through content as fast as you can to me at least is totally stupid. I don't play games to run past 2/3 of it so I can reach endgame. I do every side quest I come across, I enjoy story and lore and explore.
ESO as an example had a lot more than 30 or 40 hours if you did everything it offered to include the other factions once you completed yours. But I also don't spend my life in front of a computer all the time either so if I am playing more than 10 hours a week it is a really sad week. And I don't see the point in trying to rush through content either, I take my time and enjoy it instead.
But my point still stands that they are releasing more and more games now with less to do launch and then a couple months later they have DLC ready to go. It was more than likely finished before release but was held back as another way to get more money.
The tired bullet sponge mechanic complaint with ZERO insight as to how you'd fix it. Like I haven't heard this from a thousand different people who also couldn't give a reasonable alternative to increasing difficulty based on group size.
Please don't be like all of the other useless drones that don't have the mental capacity to form an intelligent response.
Ok. Solution: make them not bullet-spongey.
I think bullet-spongey is just fun word-hype. Granted, I haven't been much further than the starting zone, but even in the beta, there were a couple people who took more bullets than others. If we're comparing to, say, Destiny then I think it's a bit of a stretch. I can appreciate the want for greater realism in games, but that can also make it exceedingly annoying.... Like when you get one-shot yourself. We've all seen the rage videos on youtube of people getting one-shot in PvP. Now just imagine that all over the place.
Since it is a RPG first, according to the developers, it makes since they are bullet sponges. They want longer more drawn out fights instead of one shot kill. Fantasy RPG's rarely have a one sword swipe kill mechanic. Most RPGs do not. This is just with bullets instead of fireballs or magic missiles.
Well, I play with a sniper rifle (Superior Covert SRS - not from the DZ but from a vendor in PVE) and secondary is an assault rifle (Specialized SCAR-L), but i can one shot almost any normal npc and the purple/yellow (not named) mobs i can hit them and most of the time all the armor is gone and only needs one more headshot (mostly), so i dont see those bullit sponges npc`s at all ...
... You need to learn to aim before you shoot and if you try headshots or hit the tank on the back of cleaners it becomes much easier, and not all sniper rilfes can one shot an npc, dont think a high dps weapon can kill an npc with less bullets you also need to look at the rounds/min and stability the lower the rounds p/min the more damage you do and more chance for a one shot kill and the higher the stability on automatic weapons the more damage you do because more bullits will hit. If you have a automatic weapon with high dps but almost no stability (like most AK/RPK) then you wont hit anything and it takes ages to kill an npc.
Don't really have a problem with the game itself but do have a problem with games launching with very little content and then trying to sell me DLC's because there was little content to start with. If you consider it an MMO it should at least have a min of about 6 months content at launch or IMO it is a failure just trying to get money.
Which MMO launched with 6-months of content? Do tell... Honestly, I rarely see them come out with more than 30 or 40 hours, but probably more like 10 or 12 depending on how dedicated you are to getting there quickly.
And there in itself is a problem don't you think. But if you can reach the mythical endgame within a day the game is crap. And rushing through content as fast as you can to me at least is totally stupid. I don't play games to run past 2/3 of it so I can reach endgame. I do every side quest I come across, I enjoy story and lore and explore.
ESO as an example had a lot more than 30 or 40 hours if you did everything it offered to include the other factions once you completed yours. But I also don't spend my life in front of a computer all the time either so if I am playing more than 10 hours a week it is a really sad week. And I don't see the point in trying to rush through content either, I take my time and enjoy it instead.
But my point still stands that they are releasing more and more games now with less to do launch and then a couple months later they have DLC ready to go. It was more than likely finished before release but was held back as another way to get more money.
I agree, I think it's sad to rush through. I was just trying to make the point that if you did rush through then you could probably max out any MMO in 24 hours, with few exceptions.
That being said, I don't mind the 20-hour game. Shoot, I don't mind the 7 hour COD. I'm very focused on story, so the more stories I get to experience in that time, the better. I also find it's easier to get a solid story in that time. Anything more begins to stretch things out.
As far as DLC goes, I have zero problem with it. Again, the amount of gameplay hasn't really changed. Go back and play the original COD. I would say that they aren't taking anything away in favour of DLC. However, they do plan for DLC. Some DLC is worthy of your money, some isn't. I'd prefer something that extends the story or gameplay, myself, and I don't mind spending $20 for 5-10 hours of content. Beats spending $60 for a compilation of that content on hard copy. I can pick and choose.
People keep comparing this game to Destiny but in reality it's closer to Diablo 3. Massive never said it was a MMO. They've always referred to it as an action rpg. The loot works like D3, the skill system is similar with a small amount of skills that can be modified to change their effects. Like D3 this game will have legs. Once people realize what the game actually is instead of trying to fit the game into what they expected it to be.
I'm just passed level 10 and have already put in 15+ hours. I have no doubt about the longevity of this game.
People keep comparing this game to Destiny but in reality it's closer to Diablo 3. Massive never said it was a MMO. They've always referred to it as an action rpg. The loot works like D3, the skill system is similar with a small amount of skills that can be modified to change their effects. Like D3 this game will have legs. Once people realize what the game actually is instead of trying to fit the game into what they expected it to be.
I'm just passed level 10 and have already put in 15+ hours. I have no doubt about the longevity of this game.
People keep comparing this game to Destiny but in reality it's closer to Diablo 3. Massive never said it was a MMO. They've always referred to it as an action rpg. The loot works like D3, the skill system is similar with a small amount of skills that can be modified to change their effects. Like D3 this game will have legs. Once people realize what the game actually is instead of trying to fit the game into what they expected it to be.
I'm just passed level 10 and have already put in 15+ hours. I have no doubt about the longevity of this game.
I completely agree. I am just passed Level 10 myself yesterday and experienced my first hours in the DeadZone and it was fun as heck, thrilling and frustrating, as it's actually not rogue players, but strong NPC oponents that outflank you and grief and camp the extraction zones and safety zone exits LOL!
What is Nice about that, is that instead of having players griefing eachother constantly, players so far (at least on PS4) have been very civil and just join your open group and help eachother out fighting the strong NPC oponents in the Dead Zone. We only had one Group of rogue players so far, which we ambushed with two Squads and eventually eliminated Was quite fun, as they were camping on top of a gas station.
The skill and perk system is fantastic! I really love it, as each skill and perk is actually useful and make you change skills now and then to adapt to a specific situation or compliment to other players in a group situation.
While I love Destiny and have played it extensively the past 18 months, I do think The Division has done a lot of Things much better when it comes to skills, perks, weapon customisations (modding, etc) and how open the game world is.
Time will tell in how they handle DLC and how and if they expand and open up more in Manhattan, like I would love them to add Central Park for example.
Comments
I think bullet-spongey is just fun word-hype. Granted, I haven't been much further than the starting zone, but even in the beta, there were a couple people who took more bullets than others. If we're comparing to, say, Destiny then I think it's a bit of a stretch. I can appreciate the want for greater realism in games, but that can also make it exceedingly annoying.... Like when you get one-shot yourself. We've all seen the rage videos on youtube of people getting one-shot in PvP. Now just imagine that all over the place.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Which MMO launched with 6-months of content? Do tell... Honestly, I rarely see them come out with more than 30 or 40 hours, but probably more like 10 or 12 depending on how dedicated you are to getting there quickly.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Recordings here, investigative data there, and of course echoes which are an interesting in themselves -- it is pretty deep at what lengths they've fleshed out the world and story in general.
As for the bullet sponge... there are two avenues here... 1) its an RPG... yes its a tom clancy game set in a realistic setting, but first and foremost it's an RPG. While that does lend itself some leeway with the amount of damage opponents can take.. the type of game mode you're playing matters just as much. 2) Normal mode is much more forgiving. If you spec for mostly damage and are using the weapons properly (focus headshots with marksman rifles, shotguns for mostly close range, steady aim with assault and machine guns, critical chance for SMGs) its fairly simple to drop multiple trash opponents in a few shots. Sometimes in 1 shot if you are good at sniping. Damage bonuses help with the stronger mobs, like the cover boost and radar pulse.
Hard Mode Mobs... they are challenging.. especially with the AI the way it is now. They will rush you, they will flank you... they do substantially more damage and yes, they are more bullet spongey to accommodate that harder difficulty level. In absence of that, you lower your threat ratio substantially too. Enemies that die in 1 or 2 shots from any weapon in a cover shooter would give way too much advantage to the player. Consider that players can drop down turrets that generally are used as cover fire, they would be the ultimate weapon. You would negate the usage of the gun types as well -- pretty much turning this into a general shooter with little to no gear factored qualities.
Compare a game like this to Gears of War. That was a shooter... it had no upgradeable abilities, and yes, in certain circumstances, with the right weapons, you could get 1 hit kills -- mostly. The harder enemies were always Bullet Sponge enemies. When you increased the difficulty, it didn't increase anything other than damage done to the player and the amount of damage each enemy took to where many enemies did become more bullet spongey.
It seems much more out of place in a conventional shooter.. much less so in a game geared as an RPG.
As for the amount of players in the DZ, I don't think anyone has numbers on that yet. The brackets are changing so quickly, and while its never felt empty, and it seems like there are more people in it than when I was in beta, In most MMO's, apart from towns, I rarely run into more than 15 people.
In a small safe house alone I've counted 20 players. Thats in an instance with the size equivalence of a living room. In that situation it looked packed. I've never seen that many people in a grouped area in the DZ since beta.
YOU FORGOT SHADOWBANE???? WTF REALLY???!!!
that now out of the way....
This game is very well done and extremely immersive and addicting.
Do ALL your main missions on HARD with full party of four. The Bullet Sponginess is there because the fight mechanics are trinity based and require teamwork and synergy. Do not treat this game like an FPS. They did a great job making combat meaningful and incorporating a dungeon boss encounter feel into a cgame with 1st person fps mechanics. Game feels more like a traditional trinity based mmo than all these other action combat craptastic asian ports.
Nothing new here move on.
Division is not a classic MMORPG, but then again, the current trend is move away from the old ways of doing things and trying new combinations. TD is not the first mashup and it won't be the last.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
I'm calling this sorta MMO genre of game a "Hybrid MMO" or "Hybrid Genre MMO". Since it's a FPS shooter and a RPG, but also somewhat dovetails with MMO's. Let's see what the game industry starts to call it when a few more games start to appear like this one and like Destiny.
----------------------
The Older Gamers
ESO as an example had a lot more than 30 or 40 hours if you did everything it offered to include the other factions once you completed yours. But I also don't spend my life in front of a computer all the time either so if I am playing more than 10 hours a week it is a really sad week. And I don't see the point in trying to rush through content either, I take my time and enjoy it instead.
But my point still stands that they are releasing more and more games now with less to do launch and then a couple months later they have DLC ready to go. It was more than likely finished before release but was held back as another way to get more money.
Well, I play with a sniper rifle (Superior Covert SRS - not from the DZ but from a vendor in PVE) and secondary is an assault rifle (Specialized SCAR-L), but i can one shot almost any normal npc and the purple/yellow (not named) mobs i can hit them and most of the time all the armor is gone and only needs one more headshot (mostly), so i dont see those bullit sponges npc`s at all ...
... You need to learn to aim before you shoot and if you try headshots or hit the tank on the back of cleaners it becomes much easier, and not all sniper rilfes can one shot an npc, dont think a high dps weapon can kill an npc with less bullets you also need to look at the rounds/min and stability the lower the rounds p/min the more damage you do and more chance for a one shot kill and the higher the stability on automatic weapons the more damage you do because more bullits will hit. If you have a automatic weapon with high dps but almost no stability (like most AK/RPK) then you wont hit anything and it takes ages to kill an npc.
I agree, I think it's sad to rush through. I was just trying to make the point that if you did rush through then you could probably max out any MMO in 24 hours, with few exceptions.
That being said, I don't mind the 20-hour game. Shoot, I don't mind the 7 hour COD. I'm very focused on story, so the more stories I get to experience in that time, the better. I also find it's easier to get a solid story in that time. Anything more begins to stretch things out.
As far as DLC goes, I have zero problem with it. Again, the amount of gameplay hasn't really changed. Go back and play the original COD. I would say that they aren't taking anything away in favour of DLC. However, they do plan for DLC. Some DLC is worthy of your money, some isn't. I'd prefer something that extends the story or gameplay, myself, and I don't mind spending $20 for 5-10 hours of content. Beats spending $60 for a compilation of that content on hard copy. I can pick and choose.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I'm just passed level 10 and have already put in 15+ hours. I have no doubt about the longevity of this game.
What he said.
What is Nice about that, is that instead of having players griefing eachother constantly, players so far (at least on PS4) have been very civil and just join your open group and help eachother out fighting the strong NPC oponents in the Dead Zone.
We only had one Group of rogue players so far, which we ambushed with two Squads and eventually eliminated
The skill and perk system is fantastic! I really love it, as each skill and perk is actually useful and make you change skills now and then to adapt to a specific situation or compliment to other players in a group situation.
While I love Destiny and have played it extensively the past 18 months, I do think The Division has done a lot of Things much better when it comes to skills, perks, weapon customisations (modding, etc) and how open the game world is.
Time will tell in how they handle DLC and how and if they expand and open up more in Manhattan, like I would love them to add Central Park for example.