I wonder why there is not a single Wild West MMORPG out there. There could be so much to do in that setting. Like small western towns, old mines, Indian tribes, Warfare/PVP, treasures, crafting/inventions, wilderness, territories, trains... So much good stuff you could implement. Would you play it, if it was a high quality game?
As a girl, no. I can see why the idea is attractive to male gamers, but I'm just not into the idea at all. I like my fantasy games.
Inb4 some femi-nazi says girls can like trains and guns and mines too.
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
I always like the idea of a western that is like the spaghetti westerns. I'd take a poncho and two six shooters.
A western seems like it would be better served with shooter style combat as opposed to turn based combat. I could see PvE combat getting boring fairly quickly unless there was some kind of magic element added in.
The wild west theme seems made for a sandbox with open world PvP.
I've seen Asian wild west themes that were modified to include magic. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but it can make turn based combat more interesting. It's also something completely different IMO.
I've seen some suggestions for a Steampunk game and I love that idea. It's enough of a "made-up" genre that you can do as you see fit in a lot of ways without worrying about offending real-life cultures. Plus, it gives you more freedom in what sorts of things to include in your game.
For one thing, I think the inclusion of some steam technology makes it more interesting than just the basics of the Wild West. Plus you can insert certain slightly fantasy elements without it seeming weird. So you have your gunslinging classes, daggers and things, and maybe some archery, but you can add in some magical, or techno-magical classes, for those of us who don't enjoy the physical classes as much, without it feeling like it doesn't fit into the theme. This I think is a necessity for a succesful MMO, is including a variety of archetypes because a lot of players simply will not play your game if you don't have a class style they enjoy.
And as someone else mentioned, there's two types of Steampunk - Wild West Steampunk and Victorian Steam Punk. I like the latter just because I think it's more fun.
There's alot of "steampunk" integrated in modern mmorpgs and has been for years. From the gnomes of EQ and WoW (also goblins), to the dwarves and engineers of Warhammer and GW2, the fancifully technological elite fill story lines everywhere you look, hidden in plain sight.
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
How did the natives decide which tribe owned what lands?
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
Worse than that it starts with 1776 and all that. Prior to the rebellion of the twelve colonies more than half of the British claimed territory was reserved for indigenous use (the line of settlement), after independence all of the claimed area was open to European settlement. There is even an argument to be made that the restrictions on settlement where primary reasons for the rebellion itself.
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
How did the natives decide which tribe owned what lands?
The same ways that Europeans did in Europe. Sometimes by treaty and agreement sometimes by conflict, often by tradition and custom. But none of this justifies genocide and conquest by the invading Europeans.
I wonder if the Indian faction will be duped by the Non-Indian faction like they were in the real Wild Wild West? Knowing what was to come, would any Non-Indian have a chance out in the Wild Wild West? I picture an entirely different outcome... which is why fantasy MMOs work... there is no documented winner or loser... it's all made up as you go along.
Absolutely! I think it would work well as a themepark or a sandbox (although I prefer sandbox). Weapon upgrades, skill with explosives, courier jobs, trains robberies, law vs. outlaw. Yes please.
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
How did the natives decide which tribe owned what lands?
The same ways that Europeans did in Europe. Sometimes by treaty and agreement sometimes by conflict, often by tradition and custom. But none of this justifies genocide and conquest by the invading Europeans.
Ahh, so they were just like any other peoples of world history. So what happened when the Europeans came and the ensuing culture clash? Clue, it was the same as anywhere else in the world. BOTH sides committed acts of aggression, escalating into reprisals and war. And if prisoners were taken, and not killed, I'll give you one guess what became of them. The "native" peoples were the first slavers in America. In some of their cultures, they also practiced human sacrifice, although that was before the Europeans came as far as I know.
Then one side won. And even then, the acts of aggression went on. And that's when more reprisals came. The marches were a travesty. But it's not all one side or the other. It was an inability to resolve the clash of ways of life. It was no different than any other place on earth, except that the marches were to move the native peoples to new lands as opposed to just letting them all die when winter came because they were running out of money to feed them.
There were a lot of wrongs from both sides. I wouldn't have gotten into this crap except for the ongoing slant against the white man in this thread. But I can't take this collegiate liberal rewriting of history any more. But I am done now, whether you want to keep making these claims or not. I've said my piece. I expect the Mods to not delete this post, like you haven't deleted any other posts on this OT subject.
Not for me, have never been a fan of the Wild West.
Perhaps its part of being British, but we just don't have any equivalent landscape in our countries or any equivalent timeperiod in our history where we had "frontiers" etc, so there is nothing to connect me to the Wild West. I just don't like deserts / scrubland and the yellow/orange colour palette.
However, if it was built well then I might play. We've never had a AAA sandbox MMO, so if the first one happened to be set in the Wild West then I'd probably give it a go just to see what it's like.
You're right the British were never an expansionist empire. You may want do some reading about your country in Africa/India and elsewhere. It makes the Wild Wild west look pretty mild.
I know we expanded and had frontiers, but I always sort of thought the frontiers were primarily fights against people as we took over their country, whereas I sort of got the impression that the wild west was more a case of man vs environment.
Not at all, and this is part of why a Wild West MMO wouldn't work, because few people truly understand the history behind it. All of North, Central, and South America had been fully habitated by native american tribes for tens of thousands of years before any Europeans came over to this part of the world. We repeatedly tore apart and killed their people and their cultures, or just flat out lied and cheated our way to their lands, in order to colonize these continents. It's a brutal, bloody, and shameful history across the board that has been romanticized in books and moves for decades, but it's anything but. The Americas haven't been empty of people for about 40,000 years.
Yeah rinse and repeat that all over the world for centuries. The western Expansion of the United States was not, by a long shot, the first example of one culture basically destroying another. Wanna talk about Persians and a good potion of the planet? And what they did? How about in much more recent history the Japanese and Koreans? How about we talk about Isis and what they do n a daily basis to expand their territory. No, the U.S. has nothing to be proud of along the lines of how it treated the indigenous peoples of this continent however, our forefathers (at least mine) were not the inventors not the first practitioners of this form of genocide.
I suggest climbing down off the soap box.
BTW there are Wild West MMO's...they do work, they are just very Niche and as the OP pointed out not high quality.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I've never been a fan of westerns. Just doesn't appeal to me.
If an MMO were to be made, it doesn't have to be historically our wild west, just technologically the wild west. That way you don't have to deal with issues of natives and such and trying to make it "accurate". Probably set it up as other countries owning a chunk of the land, could even make it into RvR hehe, especially if people are setting up colonies, towns, outposts and others want them.
Maybe even toss in some steampunk to have the wild west with advanced steam technology. It might appeal to a broader audience. It would definitely have greater variety.
No , just not a great setting for a MMORPG (for me). I would play a Sci-Fi game with that type of "feel" to it, wagon trains in space sounds like a good long term setting for a MMORPG.
I wouldn't have gotten into this crap except for the ongoing slant against the white man in this thread. But I can't take this collegiate liberal rewriting of history any more.
I know what you mean. No one's concerned for the Picts invaded by Romans. No one's concerned for the hundreds of African tribes captured and sold into slavery by the Songhai or Berbers. The Armenian genocide has been all but been swept under the rug. I've never been to an Australian aboriginal or Aztec casino. Fortunately we live in an era where we recognize the barbarity of past trespasses, and I like to keep that in mind, moving forward, as I'm constantly reminded of things " I " didn't do, wouldn't do.
Technologically superior, or otherwise more capable, societies have competed for land and resources throughout time. If a person can't just accept that truth, because they've become so insulated to the horrors of human nature, if they can't grasp and fully operate within that understanding, generally, they'll be next.
It's not ok, it never was ok, and it won't ever be ok, but it happened. It will continue to happen, to some extent, on other frontiers we create, societal, economical, everywhere we take it.
edit: changed Lithuanian to "Armenian". I'm pretty sure we're all well acquainted with the former, as it was an aspect of the holocaust, and my intent was to communicate the latter.
yes I would, as long as it's not just action oriented PVP
like, I would want to learn how to ride a horse, learn how to take care of the land, actually learn about the period and learn how to survive in the world
You don't have to follow history verbatim for this to work. Tribesman can "convert" to the newer technologies (modern at the time) that would make them full capable in a PvP match. I don't recall any fantasy/sci-fi MMO ever following something right out of the book. A game will always take liberties, you just have to find the right gameplay mechanic to hook players to make this uniquely playable. Every product has a hook.
It could work in the way a pre NGE/CU SWG worked. A massive, open world, take whatever skills you want and an emphasis on building, survival and trade. Of course, there was a lot to the old west that people really would like to forget including the plight of Native Americans and wholesale slaughter of them, the issue of slavery, treatment of women, Northern VS Southern states, The Chinese influx of immigrants on the Western Coast, Mexico...etc.
The main thing would be getting the vastness of the western frontier correct. That would be an accomplishment in itself.
It might only be a success in America, and maybe Australia. There was never an Old West in Europe....which is why Medieval games are not really successful in America, because America never had a medieval period.
Also, you would HAVE to get horse riding correct.
The closest game would be Red Dead Redemption multiplayer mode....but that was only on a console.
I wouldn't have gotten into this crap except for the ongoing slant against the white man in this thread. But I can't take this collegiate liberal rewriting of history any more.
I know what you mean. No one's concerned for the Picts invaded by Romans. No one's concerned for the hundreds of African tribes captured and sold into slavery by the Songhai or Berbers. The Armenian genocide has been all but been swept under the rug. I've never been to an Australian aboriginal or Aztec casino. Fortunately we live in an era where we recognize the barbarity of past trespasses, and I like to keep that in mind, moving forward, as I'm constantly reminded of things " I " didn't do, wouldn't do.
Technologically superior, or otherwise more capable, societies have competed for land and resources throughout time. If a person can't just accept that truth, because they've become so insulated to the horrors of human nature, if they can't grasp and fully operate within that understanding, generally, they'll be next.
It's not ok, it never was ok, and it won't ever be ok, but it happened. It will continue to happen, to some extent, on other frontiers we create, societal, economical, everywhere we take it.
edit: changed Lithuanian to "Armenian". I'm pretty sure we're all well acquainted with the former, as it was an aspect of the holocaust, and my intent was to communicate the latter.
But would you play an MMORPG based on the Armenian Genocide, or the Shoah, or Rwanda?
A game based on the development of a frontier is one thing, a game based around a genocide is another. In the case of a Wild West game either you include the genocidal aspects or you plaster over them. Either way you are inviting a storm of protest.
Not in the 19th century, no. In classical antiquity, there are certainly direct comparisons to "everything outside of Rome".
As to whether Meso-America had a sort of medieval period, that, too is arguable, although obviously without horses, metal shaping, or machinery. There was a period of solid structure, followed by a societal decline and descent to relative barbarism. A couple cultures were in the process of making significant advancements when someone gave them all smallpox, not that it was entirely purposeful, or not at first.
A game based on the development of a frontier is one thing, a game based around a genocide is another. In the case of a Wild West game either you include the genocidal aspects or you plaster over them. Either way you are inviting a storm of protest.
I dunno. I get ( hypothetically ) 1400 xp and 2 gold every gnoll camp I clear. You tell me.
A game based on the development of a frontier is one thing, a game based around a genocide is another. In the case of a Wild West game either you include the genocidal aspects or you plaster over them. Either way you are inviting a storm of protest.
I dunno. I get ( hypothetically ) 1400 xp and 2 gold every gnoll camp I clear. You tell me.
They. just. keep. making. babies.
Are you really saying that a game killing native Americans is OK because we have games killing invented creatures? That is getting awfully close to justifying actual violence because of violence in video games. Do we really want to head down that path? Personally I would prefer to keep my games to virtual situations against fantasy creatures.
Comments
Inb4 some femi-nazi says girls can like trains and guns and mines too.
A western seems like it would be better served with shooter style combat as opposed to turn based combat. I could see PvE combat getting boring fairly quickly unless there was some kind of magic element added in.
The wild west theme seems made for a sandbox with open world PvP.
I've seen Asian wild west themes that were modified to include magic. I'm not sure if it's good or bad, but it can make turn based combat more interesting. It's also something completely different IMO.
For one thing, I think the inclusion of some steam technology makes it more interesting than just the basics of the Wild West. Plus you can insert certain slightly fantasy elements without it seeming weird. So you have your gunslinging classes, daggers and things, and maybe some archery, but you can add in some magical, or techno-magical classes, for those of us who don't enjoy the physical classes as much, without it feeling like it doesn't fit into the theme. This I think is a necessity for a succesful MMO, is including a variety of archetypes because a lot of players simply will not play your game if you don't have a class style they enjoy.
And as someone else mentioned, there's two types of Steampunk - Wild West Steampunk and Victorian Steam Punk. I like the latter just because I think it's more fun.
How did the natives decide which tribe owned what lands?
Once upon a time....
The same ways that Europeans did in Europe. Sometimes by treaty and agreement sometimes by conflict, often by tradition and custom. But none of this justifies genocide and conquest by the invading Europeans.
Cue up Kool Moe Dee... "Wild Wild West..."
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
So what happened when the Europeans came and the ensuing culture clash?
Clue, it was the same as anywhere else in the world. BOTH sides committed acts of aggression, escalating into reprisals and war. And if prisoners were taken, and not killed, I'll give you one guess what became of them. The "native" peoples were the first slavers in America. In some of their cultures, they also practiced human sacrifice, although that was before the Europeans came as far as I know.
Then one side won. And even then, the acts of aggression went on. And that's when more reprisals came.
The marches were a travesty. But it's not all one side or the other. It was an inability to resolve the clash of ways of life. It was no different than any other place on earth, except that the marches were to move the native peoples to new lands as opposed to just letting them all die when winter came because they were running out of money to feed them.
There were a lot of wrongs from both sides.
I wouldn't have gotten into this crap except for the ongoing slant against the white man in this thread. But I can't take this collegiate liberal rewriting of history any more.
But I am done now, whether you want to keep making these claims or not. I've said my piece.
I expect the Mods to not delete this post, like you haven't deleted any other posts on this OT subject.
Once upon a time....
I suggest climbing down off the soap box.
BTW there are Wild West MMO's...they do work, they are just very Niche and as the OP pointed out not high quality.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If an MMO were to be made, it doesn't have to be historically our wild west, just technologically the wild west. That way you don't have to deal with issues of natives and such and trying to make it "accurate". Probably set it up as other countries owning a chunk of the land, could even make it into RvR hehe, especially if people are setting up colonies, towns, outposts and others want them.
Maybe even toss in some steampunk to have the wild west with advanced steam technology. It might appeal to a broader audience. It would definitely have greater variety.
Technologically superior, or otherwise more capable, societies have competed for land and resources throughout time. If a person can't just accept that truth, because they've become so insulated to the horrors of human nature, if they can't grasp and fully operate within that understanding, generally, they'll be next.
It's not ok, it never was ok, and it won't ever be ok, but it happened. It will continue to happen, to some extent, on other frontiers we create, societal, economical, everywhere we take it.
edit: changed Lithuanian to "Armenian". I'm pretty sure we're all well acquainted with the former, as it was an aspect of the holocaust, and my intent was to communicate the latter.
like, I would want to learn how to ride a horse, learn how to take care of the land, actually learn about the period and learn how to survive in the world
The main thing would be getting the vastness of the western frontier correct. That would be an accomplishment in itself.
It might only be a success in America, and maybe Australia. There was never an Old West in Europe....which is why Medieval games are not really successful in America, because America never had a medieval period.
Also, you would HAVE to get horse riding correct.
The closest game would be Red Dead Redemption multiplayer mode....but that was only on a console.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
A game based on the development of a frontier is one thing, a game based around a genocide is another. In the case of a Wild West game either you include the genocidal aspects or you plaster over them. Either way you are inviting a storm of protest.
As to whether Meso-America had a sort of medieval period, that, too is arguable, although obviously without horses, metal shaping, or machinery. There was a period of solid structure, followed by a societal decline and descent to relative barbarism. A couple cultures were in the process of making significant advancements when someone gave them all smallpox, not that it was entirely purposeful, or not at first.
They. just. keep. making. babies.
That is getting awfully close to justifying actual violence because of violence in video games. Do we really want to head down that path?
Personally I would prefer to keep my games to virtual situations against fantasy creatures.