›

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register

Quick Links

Does the closing of Everquest Next reflect on the general appeal of Sandbox MMOs?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Does the closing of Everquest Next reflect on the general appeal of Sandbox MMOs?

Most Sandbox MMOs over the years tend to do worst than their counterparts.

EQN was the chance for AAA quality backing to a Western Sandbox MMO, yet the developers pulled back because they said they couldnt make it fun.

To me, this seem to be a major reflection of the Sandbox MMO subgenre as a whole, which could be why so many of them flop.

But whats your thoughts on this?

Philosophy of MMO Game Design

Comments

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    The company failed. The game didn't have a chance to fail. If anything, it's a reflection of the company. 
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Considering that sandbox MMO's are the majority of MMO's in development currently, I would say no.
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,430
    Since it wasn't released, it has no effect on the appeal of anything, unless you're talking about the developer.

    I self identify as a monkey.

  • wandericawanderica Member UncommonPosts: 371
    Like Simsalabim said, SOE failed.  I'm not sure I would have called it a true sandbox anyway.  The whole point of making a sandbox is to give players the tools needed to create their own fun.  SWG, UO, Second Life.  Those are examples of sandboxes.  Even more modern examples like Ark are sandboxes.  From what I know of what EQN was supposed to be, it was something in between.


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    We have no idea what the actual EQN game play would have been like, so it's cancellation is not indicative of anything.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,617
    no, since titan is also shutdown.  And I doubt Titan is a sandbox.  CCP also shut down world of darkness.

    I think it's more of a studios realize big budget mmorpg isn't profitable.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    I agree with the opinion that it was a mismanaged project. The game did not fail from lack of interest or sales, it failed because the studio got sold and the new management deemed it a lost cause. 

    With that said it might make it harder for small to medium studios to try and do anything outside the set frame of the MMO market today. Investors might be less inclined to bet money on a untested idea. (unless it is VR... that thing is bubbling as heck right now) 

    This have been a good conversation

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    I never played EQ but I did have alot of fun in Everquest 2. EQ next was not what EQ should have been. Its actually good that the game got cancelled because now a true sequel might actually be made. 
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Recore said:
    I never played EQ but I did have alot of fun in Everquest 2. EQ next was not what EQ should have been. Its actually good that the game got cancelled because now a true sequel might actually be made. 
    Don't hold your breath on that one. 
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    makasouleater69 said:
    Recore said:
    I never played EQ but I did have alot of fun in Everquest 2. EQ next was not what EQ should have been. Its actually good that the game got cancelled because now a true sequel might actually be made. 
    Don't hold your breath on that one. 


    Yea, I am not going to but I still hope one day we get something. 
  • IAmMMOIAmMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,462
    edited March 2016
    Sandbox is not dead; it's just being done differently in approach. Sandbox game play is as popular as ever. Minecraft type games genre is branching out into games like Arch and is very popular.  DB have taken note of this and are running with Landmark, which fits this new area of sandbox better. There's the up and coming Shards online which is getting a lot of interest as well, that's very sandbox too.
  • MeridionMeridion Member UncommonPosts: 1,495
    In my opinion, western MMOs are failing because of WoW, honestly, the concepts of WoW (class, level, gear, dungeon, pvp) are still branded into the brains of western devs so much, they fail to move the concept from "themepark accessible" to "sandbox and accessible".

    Most of the modern players, and thats not hearsay, just look at the popularity of casual games, dont have time or motivation on their hands to wade through hours of unimaginative grinding system A to access system B.

    Although it can be done, you can deliver a complex game with complex mechanics and make them accessible and fun for level 1's with 30 mins playtime per day. But I'll tell you a secret, EVE online is NOT the blueprint to work with here... EVE is usually taken as THE sandbox, and what WoW does for themepark, EVE does for the sandbox.

    A sandbox does not have to be FFA PvP, it does not have to be free economy, free production, it doesn't HAVE to be "the wild west from rags to riches". A sandbox _could_ be instanced, it _could_ be PvE only while still featuring 90% player generated content. Think Neverwinter Nights player created dungeons.

    All this could appeal to casual PvE players while still moving away from WoWs idea of geargrind-level-dungeon-pvp...

    Well, it would be a financial risk nonetheless... you know...

    M
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Have there been any successful sandbox MMORPG's yet? 
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,571
    EQN's cancellation is nothing to do with it being a sandbox, it's because it's not a game designed for a mobile platform or a console. Columbus Nova stated early on that they were interested in moving into those particular markets. That was the big clue that a lot of people missed. Those of us that caught that soon realised that EQN was never going to see the light of day.

    CN want mobile games that earn maximum money for minimal development costs. No MMO can ever claim to fit that profile.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    Betteridge's Law says no.
  • BurntCabbageBurntCabbage Member UncommonPosts: 482
    no its the crappy devs like smed and soe..trust his every word with a grain of salt..when he started taling about something told me it was never gonna happen
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    jmcdermottuk said:
    EQN's cancellation is nothing to do with it being a sandbox, it's because it's not a game designed for a mobile platform or a console. Columbus Nova stated early on that they were interested in moving into those particular markets. That was the big clue that a lot of people missed. Those of us that caught that soon realised that EQN was never going to see the light of day.

    CN want mobile games that earn maximum money for minimal development costs. No MMO can ever claim to fit that profile.
    I'd argue thats merely hindsight talking,  I think you'll find that the reality of the situation is that they simply didn't have the money or manpower to realise a quick profit (or any at all) for CN and so terminated the project to reallocate exisiting funding to current projects.
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    I would be willing to wager that SOE already knew that they were planning to sell off their online games division when they did their dog and pony show of EQNext.  In other words, they had no intention of bringing it to the market, just using it as a means to make it's division seem like it was a more worthy investment.

    The fact that no real players were interested in buying the division spoke volumes.  Which is precisely why SOE dumped it.  Now you have a no-name company that owns the division that has no real products of their own and their so-called biggest ticket item was nothing more than vaporware all along.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    No.
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,760
    I don't buy the "unable to make it fun" excuse, if that really were the case they have not hired the right talent and got no business creating games. There are numerous other reasons that are plausible, the biggest one being of course that they were sold to a venture capitalist that specialize in quick profit optimization and resell - EqNext was a long term investment and as such, the only interest in keeping that project alive was if it could have added value to the sell price, so they cut the costs and left it in play as that.

    The other resons are bad business and design decisions, such as the releasing EqNext Landmark, such as choosing a cartoon character style and thereby alienating eq fans, such as overthinking the dynamic world concept instead of producing a smaller working one, such as technically failing in making their special voxel engine handle the detail needed in a modern aaa mmorpg.
    Maybe it would have been too much to recover from and fix, shrug.

    But the main thing is, the idea was the most inventive and progressive one seen in 15 years, and if they could have pulled it off, it would have been a true next gen sandbox mmorpg. The sad part is that it were the only counterweight to the pvp centric wave of sandboxes that are (in my opinion) hugely over rating the amount of players who are interested in a pvp carried game. There are still a huge segment of players whose main interest is pve, who are tiered of railroaded story driven themeparks, ready to jump on a game that can offer something interesting. That is why EqNext was on top of the hype meter for a long time, raising hopes in these players - Now these players have only unfulfilling themeparks to play or be the content for pvp players till they grow bored of that... And there is really no games in the horizon that looks to be targeting these players.

    "I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Sandboxes dead?  Probably not.  Sandboxes with Disneyesque art styles, hopefully.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

Sign In or Register to comment.