It is driving me crazy but half the bitching here is about stuff Duam can control and half is about what the DEVS Pearl Abyss can control. Please try to blame the right people and quit calling Duam Devs. A publisher has a limited amount of control over game design and if they do get it changed it takes a long time.
P.S. DMKano I think it is pretty lame you brag about PKing lower level and unaware people. Grow a set and fight your own level. Just because the game allows you to do something doesn't mean you should. And having said that I know it is all part of the game and won't bitch about you or your guild within the game but still its mediocre gameplay and you know it.
I was looking for a pic that could sum up BDO best but I just couldn't find the right one. Funny, you can find just about anything on the net but not a picture of a train hauling manure, careening into a ravine full of molten lava, while the passengers sing Kumbaya! Wait I got it!
Seriously though, I am all for a dev team earning money but $15 even $18 a month is a lot less than asking $30 a pop, per character, for damn near everything that should have simply been included in the game in the first place. It's just greedy and they will figure it out eventually... or just let it die who knows.
Tum Tee Tum Tee Tum... Hybrasil is NOT sinking.
Its as if you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I really don't get these types of threads...People complaining about terms that seem to change depending on what is being attacked or defended, and people claiming a game is P2W without even playing it or seeing what actually transpires with said element. The ghillie suit is inconvenient in PvP when not using one. So? So is a fight of 10 vs 50. So is someone with 12 hr/day to grind to enchant their gear to +15. Might as well quit and not play if you can't play as long. You can buy that gear in game with silver but not in the cash shop. I swear the entitlement issues some have nowadays is getting sad and pathetic.Do your research and if one or any of the game's features/mechanics/business model turn you off. DON'T BUY IT!!! Nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. You have to balance the pros and cons (for you) and decide. Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself. Cheap bastards are cheap. :awesome:
Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself.
This is madness!!! No!!! This is the internet!!!
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Because like he said countless times - he likes PVP...
Ganking is one thing, PVP something else.
That depends, when ganking are you going after low level players? Are you taking out people your own level? Are you attacking 2-3 players? With my minstrel in DAoC I loved ganking a team of 2-3 players, killing 1-2 of them and taking off with SoS (Speed song) and giggle with glee knowing the run back they would need to do to get back to their friend. Oh wait, I would circle back and kill the last one as well. Ganking is PvP.
The pet system (which I dont see any mention of here) is full blown pay to win, as well as full blown cash grab. A very bad precedent to set early in the games release. But its there now, and people are definitely spending (a lot) of money on it. Official servers have a lot of complaint threads about it.
But if you know going in its a gamble and you still do it then you cant blame anyone but yourself.
Some people can maybe try and claim its not pay to win because its so random, but that actually makes it worse because it entices (nice term) people with more money than brains to continue to try and get a 'perfect' pet, and when they find out thats nearly impossible they then (after who knows how much money spent and failed attempt) settle for something decent.
At least with the gillie suit (the crux of this argument) you know what you get and how much it is.
I really don't get these types of threads...People complaining about terms that seem to change depending on what is being attacked or defended, and people claiming a game is P2W without even playing it or seeing what actually transpires with said element. The ghillie suit is inconvenient in PvP when not using one. So? So is a fight of 10 vs 50. So is someone with 12 hr/day to grind to enchant their gear to +15. Might as well quit and not play if you can't play as long. You can buy that gear in game with silver but not in the cash shop. I swear the entitlement issues some have nowadays is getting sad and pathetic.Do your research and if one or any of the game's features/mechanics/business model turn you off. DON'T BUY IT!!! Nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. You have to balance the pros and cons (for you) and decide. Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself. Cheap bastards are cheap. :awesome:
I started this thread and have a level 51 and 4 levels 20. I see people get to 54 or 55 way faster because of buffs and because they are not getting pked as much because of ghillie suit (you lose exp when you die if you didn't know). Levels and gear means everything in this game. When you get better gear you can grind faster and get more money and with more money you get better gear. It is a power spiral.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
Because like he said countless times - he likes PVP...
Ganking is one thing, PVP something else.
That depends, when ganking are you going after low level players? Are you taking out people your own level? Are you attacking 2-3 players? With my minstrel in DAoC I loved ganking a team of 2-3 players, killing 1-2 of them and taking off with SoS (Speed song) and giggle with glee knowing the run back they would need to do to get back to their friend. Oh wait, I would circle back and kill the last one as well. Ganking is PvP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really don't get these types of threads...People complaining about terms that seem to change depending on what is being attacked or defended, and people claiming a game is P2W without even playing it or seeing what actually transpires with said element. The ghillie suit is inconvenient in PvP when not using one. So? So is a fight of 10 vs 50. So is someone with 12 hr/day to grind to enchant their gear to +15. Might as well quit and not play if you can't play as long. You can buy that gear in game with silver but not in the cash shop. I swear the entitlement issues some have nowadays is getting sad and pathetic.Do your research and if one or any of the game's features/mechanics/business model turn you off. DON'T BUY IT!!! Nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. You have to balance the pros and cons (for you) and decide. Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself. Cheap bastards are cheap. :awesome:
I started this thread and have a level 51 and 4 levels 20. I see people get to 54 or 55 way faster because of buffs and because they are not getting pked as much because of ghillie suit (you lose exp when you die if you didn't know). Levels and gear means everything in this game. When you get better gear you can grind faster and get more money and with more money you get better gear. It is a power spiral.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
So buy one already? I know I will do so should I decide to play.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All mmorpgs are pay 2 win. There hasen't been a none pay 2 win mmorpg since never. Even the firsts were pay 2 win. The only difference now, is the corporation is making the money not the players. The other difference is players use to look down upon people who cheated and bought some one's account, and they were shunned. Now its not looked down upon, and accepted. If you want a non pay 2 win mmo, you have 2 choices. Swg awaking, and everquest p 1999, both of those pay attention and ban any one selling, or buying in game stuff with money.
All the other mmorpgs out there are pay 2 win, some worse than others. This one is one is on the low end scale if you ask me. The high end is Uncharted waters online, and eve online, they def take the cake on pay 2 win. You literally just buy anything in the game with money, and if you don't feel like grinding, or doing anything, just pay them cash, and they give you everything in game.
I really don't get these types of threads...People complaining about terms that seem to change depending on what is being attacked or defended, and people claiming a game is P2W without even playing it or seeing what actually transpires with said element. The ghillie suit is inconvenient in PvP when not using one. So? So is a fight of 10 vs 50. So is someone with 12 hr/day to grind to enchant their gear to +15. Might as well quit and not play if you can't play as long. You can buy that gear in game with silver but not in the cash shop. I swear the entitlement issues some have nowadays is getting sad and pathetic.Do your research and if one or any of the game's features/mechanics/business model turn you off. DON'T BUY IT!!! Nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. You have to balance the pros and cons (for you) and decide. Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself. Cheap bastards are cheap. :awesome:
I started this thread and have a level 51 and 4 levels 20. I see people get to 54 or 55 way faster because of buffs and because they are not getting pked as much because of ghillie suit (you lose exp when you die if you didn't know). Levels and gear means everything in this game. When you get better gear you can grind faster and get more money and with more money you get better gear. It is a power spiral.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
So buy one already? I know I will do so should I decide to play.
Or quit the game. That's always an option too (and sometimes the more prudent one for both your mental health, emotional health, and financial health!)
(as an aside, I believe the point of relevance to any business is "How many people would quit the game over this?" ....and the answer? Not many, apparently, at least compared to the profits, which is why the businesses keep doing it)
All mmorpgs are pay 2 win. There hasen't been a none pay 2 win mmorpg since never. Even the firsts were pay 2 win. The only difference now, is the corporation is making the money not the players. The other difference is players use to look down upon people who cheated and bought some one's account, and they were shunned. Now its not looked down upon, and accepted. If you want a non pay 2 win mmo, you have 2 choices. Swg awaking, and everquest p 1999, both of those pay attention and ban any one selling, or buying in game stuff with money.
All the other mmorpgs out there are pay 2 win, some worse than others. This one is one is on the low end scale if you ask me. The high end is Uncharted waters online, and eve online, they def take the cake on pay 2 win. You literally just buy anything in the game with money, and if you don't feel like grinding, or doing anything, just pay them cash, and they give you everything in game.
Proving you know nothing about EVE and the lack of any real impact from RMT, proper design can do that.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
OP must be new to MMOs, as of the time he posted this. That costume is not P2W xD. Infact you don't need it to win anything. People are just sheeple and since everyone has this delusion it gives them an advantage, everyone buys it. If you really wanna see money grab, look at Crowfall.
Sad to say this is the direction MMOs are going; buy to play with shops full of shinnies and trinkets. It's how they make money now; new sub model based games are dead. I called it years ago. Play or don't play, no one cares
(edit, I will say the cash shop is overpriced on their offerings, which is sad)
I started this thread and have a level 51 and 4 levels 20. I see people get to 54 or 55 way faster because of buffs and because they are not getting pked as much because of ghillie suit (you lose exp when you die if you didn't know). Levels and gear means everything in this game. When you get better gear you can grind faster and get more money and with more money you get better gear. It is a power spiral.
~You knew that, or should have, going in. That's how the game is set up. If you didn't know then you should have done your homework. Simple.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
~Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if not tempered with a little common sense it reveals the true nature of the person. Entitlement goes further than just having an opinion in this case. Buying into something without foreknowledge then complaining about it is ignorant and one can only blame themselves. Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
~Same reason you have for starting this thread I wager, or is hypocrisy the norm for disagreeing with someone?! I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
~This falls into the category of the same, countless F2P threads where others say they shouldn't have to pay a cent to enjoy the whole game. Never said you claimed this but this is the game at this moment. Again, it was for you to find these things out beforehand, lessons learned (I hope).
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
In your opinion. I already knew this but I made up my own mind to play it. Why bother complaining about it here when I already knew what I was getting into? Kinda dumb, don't you think? Or just admit ignorance and go with Lessons learned. Simple.
I started this thread and have a level 51 and 4 levels 20. I see people get to 54 or 55 way faster because of buffs and because they are not getting pked as much because of ghillie suit (you lose exp when you die if you didn't know). Levels and gear means everything in this game. When you get better gear you can grind faster and get more money and with more money you get better gear. It is a power spiral.
~You knew that, or should have, going in. That's how the game is set up. If you didn't know then you should have done your homework. Simple.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
~Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if not tempered with a little common sense it reveals the true nature of the person. Entitlement goes further than just having an opinion in this case. Buying into something without foreknowledge then complaining about it is ignorant and one can only blame themselves. Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
~Same reason you have for starting this thread I wager, or is hypocrisy the norm for disagreeing with someone?! I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
~This falls into the category of the same, countless F2P threads where others say they shouldn't have to pay a cent to enjoy the whole game. Never said you claimed this but this is the game at this moment. Again, it was for you to find these things out beforehand, lessons learned (I hope).
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
In your opinion. I already knew this but I made up my own mind to play it. Why bother complaining about it here when I already knew what I was getting into? Kinda dumb, don't you think? Or just admit ignorance and go with Lessons learned. Simple.
Well nice at least you are moving from straw man posts to ad-hominem. Let me translate, because you dont seem to get the basics of logical arguments: it means attacking the person instead of what he is saying. Your posts are so boring that I couldn't bring myself to even answer your nonsense but at least you deserve few sentences for trying to argue with me.
All mmorpgs are pay 2 win. There hasen't been a none pay 2 win mmorpg since never. Even the firsts were pay 2 win. The only difference now, is the corporation is making the money not the players. The other difference is players use to look down upon people who cheated and bought some one's account, and they were shunned. Now its not looked down upon, and accepted. If you want a non pay 2 win mmo, you have 2 choices. Swg awaking, and everquest p 1999, both of those pay attention and ban any one selling, or buying in game stuff with money.
All the other mmorpgs out there are pay 2 win, some worse than others. This one is one is on the low end scale if you ask me. The high end is Uncharted waters online, and eve online, they def take the cake on pay 2 win. You literally just buy anything in the game with money, and if you don't feel like grinding, or doing anything, just pay them cash, and they give you everything in game.
Proving you know nothing about EVE and the lack of any real impact from RMT, proper design can do that.
Lol, says the eve online guru. Eve only is 100 percent pay 2 win. The only reason you don't think it is, is because the ISK isn't generated by the devs, such as they just don't spawn in money. The fact is its still pay 2 win, you can go into eve with large amounts of cash if you want, and buy everything. I mean get out of here, its getting old lol. Its no different then going to player auctions and spending 500 bucks on a eve character. Now you just give the money to the devs, and they let you buy a character in game.
Its very simple concept I dono why its so hard for you to grasp. A player goes into eve, with one account and a 15 dollar sub. That is all he ever uses. Some one with 10 eve subs, and dumps 200 bucks a month into buying and selling plex, will always be a head of the guy with one account and a 15 dollar sub. That is pay 2 win. The guy not paying, will never catch up to the guy paying alot. I mean what is so hard about understanding that?
Now to BDO, which has no player economy, no trade interaction, and a flat gear grind, and level system. It isn't very pay 2 win, because if I jumped into BDO right now, and never bought anything, I could still keep up with the people buying stuff on the cash shop, or people with more accounts.
Eve on the other hand is high up on the pay 2 win scale, because if i jumped into eve online right now, with just a 15 dollar sub. I would never catch up, ever.
Now to BDO, which has no player economy, no trade interaction, and a flat gear grind, and level system. It isn't very pay 2 win, because if I jumped into BDO right now, and never bought anything, I could still keep up with the people buying stuff on the cash shop, or people with more accounts.
Eve on the other hand is high up on the pay 2 win scale, because if i jumped into eve online right now, with just a 15 dollar sub. I would never catch up, ever.
Nobody is able to determine how much a game is p2w. There is no objective measure for that. I am just saying is that it is p2w. Furthermore I am confident enough to say that if you go into BDO now you will not be able to catch up to most of the players that are using the cash shop and are active.
Players are just resigned that in modern mmos there is a cash shop and that it provides considerable advantages for people willing to spend money. You can chose to be that player or you are that troublesome "entitled" dude that points to the elephant in the room.
Comments
P.S. DMKano I think it is pretty lame you brag about PKing lower level and unaware people. Grow a set and fight your own level. Just because the game allows you to do something doesn't mean you should. And having said that I know it is all part of the game and won't bitch about you or your guild within the game but still its mediocre gameplay and you know it.
The ghillie suit is inconvenient in PvP when not using one. So? So is a fight of 10 vs 50. So is someone with 12 hr/day to grind to enchant their gear to +15. Might as well quit and not play if you can't play as long. You can buy that gear in game with silver but not in the cash shop.
I swear the entitlement issues some have nowadays is getting sad and pathetic.Do your research and if one or any of the game's features/mechanics/business model turn you off. DON'T BUY IT!!!
Nothing is perfect nor will it ever be. You have to balance the pros and cons (for you) and decide.
Arguing on something you know nothing about claiming it to be something claimed by someone else whether by post/word of mouth etc. is seriously flawed logic and confirmation bias if you aren't willing to see it for yourself.
Cheap bastards are cheap. :awesome:
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But if you know going in its a gamble and you still do it then you cant blame anyone but yourself.
Some people can maybe try and claim its not pay to win because its so random, but that actually makes it worse because it entices (nice term) people with more money than brains to continue to try and get a 'perfect' pet, and when they find out thats nearly impossible they then (after who knows how much money spent and failed attempt) settle for something decent.
At least with the gillie suit (the crux of this argument) you know what you get and how much it is.
I have a job and I could buy any item in the cash shop if I wanted but I wont because of principles. If you think I am not "entitled" to my opinion then ask the mods to delete my posts.
Why do you feel entitled to call someone a cheap bastard?
I guess posting a picture of a scarecrow when people go full strawman is trolling but calling someone a cheap bastard is pretty fine. Eh? What do you think?
p.s. Do you know that getting killed at level 54 means you just lost 2 hours or more of grinding? Having a ghillie suit is a must.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So buy one already? I know I will do so should I decide to play.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All the other mmorpgs out there are pay 2 win, some worse than others. This one is one is on the low end scale if you ask me. The high end is Uncharted waters online, and eve online, they def take the cake on pay 2 win. You literally just buy anything in the game with money, and if you don't feel like grinding, or doing anything, just pay them cash, and they give you everything in game.
(as an aside, I believe the point of relevance to any business is "How many people would quit the game over this?" ....and the answer? Not many, apparently, at least compared to the profits, which is why the businesses keep doing it)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sad to say this is the direction MMOs are going; buy to play with shops full of shinnies and trinkets. It's how they make money now; new sub model based games are dead. I called it years ago. Play or don't play, no one cares
(edit, I will say the cash shop is overpriced on their offerings, which is sad)
Have a nice day.
Its very simple concept I dono why its so hard for you to grasp. A player goes into eve, with one account and a 15 dollar sub. That is all he ever uses. Some one with 10 eve subs, and dumps 200 bucks a month into buying and selling plex, will always be a head of the guy with one account and a 15 dollar sub. That is pay 2 win. The guy not paying, will never catch up to the guy paying alot. I mean what is so hard about understanding that?
Now to BDO, which has no player economy, no trade interaction, and a flat gear grind, and level system. It isn't very pay 2 win, because if I jumped into BDO right now, and never bought anything, I could still keep up with the people buying stuff on the cash shop, or people with more accounts.
Eve on the other hand is high up on the pay 2 win scale, because if i jumped into eve online right now, with just a 15 dollar sub. I would never catch up, ever.
Players are just resigned that in modern mmos there is a cash shop and that it provides considerable advantages for people willing to spend money. You can chose to be that player or you are that troublesome "entitled" dude that points to the elephant in the room.
Or maybe Apr. 1.