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Jim Sterling Fee 2 Pay

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  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608
    "That is the major difference. It's not a lie, I know people that haven't spent anything yet, and both of them are level 55 and +16 gear so far.  If your compulsions make it impossible for you to walk around in a game knowing others have it easier than you, don't play BDO. Kind of like real life, not everyone's life is easy, but you have the possibility to make it easier if you manage your money well. "

    Did your friends buy the $30 base game or one of the more expensive packages that come with cash shop items?  How do they feel about looking the same as when they were level 1, or having to loot every mob they grind, or treant suits?  Do they enjoy constantly having to juggle inventory because of lack of weight/slots?

    Nowhere am I saying that it's impossible to get to max level/gear without paying.  My point is that it's going to be annoying as hell if you don't, and it doesn't stop being annoying when you get there.

    Yes, my "compulsions" do indeed not allow for me to walk around in a game where others get serious paid advantages.  I don't play games to mimic life's inequalities- I expect a fair playing field for my money when I buy a game.

    Your friends are at max level with max gear (I thought 15 was the current max, btw, not 16), but they have disadvantages compared to people that buy from the shop.

    As for the point on updates- we'll see when they develop enough new content that would be worth to be called an expansion if that pays off.

    Personally, I'd much rather buy a paid expansion every few years instead of paying much more in increments over time (or even not over time- many people have already spent more than a future expansion would cost- it's not hard to do) just to have a comfortable and full game experience.


    The only thing that makes it annoying getting to max level is the pet. That's essentially the only thing that stops it from being a comfortable full experience.
    The visual cosmetic doesn't stop the moment-to-moment gameplay from being enjoyable. This game doesn't have loot drops like in other games. The armor sets and crafting armor sets essentially can be equipped from lvl 1, with no BoE.

    Most people I see playing the game are not hindered by it at all. Combined with the depth of the dye system and the character creation, it's not bad. I don't think there are anybody who doesn't wish for more in-game cosmetics, but people wish for that in almost every game. GW2 hasnt had any good armors coming out for almost 2 years, and its riding on a 50 dollars expansion that came out recently. Or SWTOR where cartel coins dominate most of the valueable stuff you can get.
    You pick your poison, but don't try and spin it like that the lack of variety in gear makes the game difficult to get to max level to.


    Your childish notions of a even playing field has nothing to do with this. BDO essentially rewards grinding (as does BnS). But that has little to do with the cash shop or people not doing it being disadvantaged. they are conveniences, not something that makes the experience annoying from not happening.

    citing a full game comfortable gaming experience is one of those things that doesn't mean anything, because its subjective and means something different to anyone. BnS has an invasive cash shop because if I dont have enough character slots for every class, like some other game has, then the game is unfair. and I saw someone post about it on the forum. SO YOU KNOW ITS TRUE. "MANY" people feel this way. < Thats how you sound. The logic is twisted. 



    I'd rather have BDOs cash shop was more value for money. I'd rather have that if you bought an outfit, that the outfit should be unlocked for all your characters. I'd rather have dyes were account-wide, instead of one-time use.
    I'd also like to see some pets be obtainable inside the game. To me the auto-loot pet and a outfit for your main character is really all I have recommended friends at this point. Those are the things that matter to me. I'd not say that I didn't prefer them to come for free, but I understand what they are doing.
    And after Heavensward, HoT and KOTFE, it seems many people are running away from traditional expansions. You say you want an expansion every few years, but many people don't. Many people want the ability to choose. And you cant choose if the game is gated behind an expansion with a new higher max level. The fact that some people have spend a lot of money on cash shops are far from "many" as you claim. they are a tiny, tiny, tiny group of people. Most people do not buy from the cash shop. Most people don't even play a 30 bucks game. 
    It's like this game being B2P keeps out certain people. It's something ArenaNet has also commented on recently, saying that fewer people have upgraded to full accounts (B2P) than they had expected. It seems clear that they are making the bulk of their money of an aggressive cosmetic cash shop as well.

    The game might go P2W some day, but until that day comes I am not going to proclaim that it is.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    While I kind of agree with the premise of the video, I just don't agree with you guys that point at BDO and that are saying that : "To enjoy the game, you need to spend money".

    I'm not saying you are wrong, but this relates more to personal tastes and your way of playing games in general.

    To you, that may very well be true, but me, I don't mind having to spend 5-10sec. spamming R to loot everything around me. (I would probably find it too much if I were to manually click on each corpse and drag and drop each item to my inventory manually.. but my "limit" is different than yours obviously). It's nothing that causes me such displeasure as I felt pushed to buy pets right out of the box.

    Weight/Inventory space : Same. I play within the boundaries of the game.
    If I know I will need space to harvest or farm, I bring a wagon nearby. If I want more weight, I level up my strength. If I'm full or encumbered. Time to take a break and go back to store/sell/produce the stuff.

    (On another topic,I think this illustrates why games have less and less systems built into them, and why they all became so shallow.. As soon as you put systems that bring limitations, with the goal of making things a little bit more realistic, you can be sure that there will be players coming with their pitchfork and torch to cry that they want them removed...I'm glad Pearl Abyss did not catter to those players though... but I digress.. ).

    Fish suit? Who cares if you can swim faster/further than me? Good for you!  I made myself a nice boat (which I was very proud of!) and it does the job more than enough (I can even fish from it.. something you can't do while swimming in your flashy suit! )

    Same for all the other stuff.
    Would it be nice to have any of it (bonus luck, xp, whatever)? Sure, but not more fun in any way. Just more convenient, which is exactly what the items on the CS are to me.

     If you are min/maxers who also can't stand that someone else is a little more efficient than you, or has an edge over you, then I could see it as being a problem (but those items are directly aimed at you guys anyways..)...Me? I don't care if I could have been 10% more efficient if I did this or bought that. And I certainly don't care if someone else is more efficient than I and will achieve X before I do. I play to have fun and relax, which this games gives me plenty of right now, so much that I will most definitely invest in something just to show my support to what is the greatest MMO I have played in a very long while..

    But all this is in the eye of the beholder. To illustrate the matter, if I myself would think that having lots of costumes and being able to manage them appropriately was necessary to my enjoyment, I could apply the same to BnS from what I read in this post. So it depends on what YOU think, and no arguments will change the way others think, even if you are dead set on it and think you have the truth of it.






    +1

    Nice post.  We are of the same mind, my friend.
  • dllddlld Member UncommonPosts: 615
    The video targeted exclusively single/small multiplayer games.

    So it doesn't  apply perfectly to an MMO which has to sustain massive server clusters and continued development.

    With that said, I do think BDO charges way too much and for too many things. Pets should be attainable through playing (Alternatively add area loot). Costumes should be 15$ max and there should be more variation to be gained from playing. Inventory feels extremely limited both in slots and weight, even after having earned quite a few ingame attainable extra slots at lvl 41 I still constantly run out of slots and have to make long treks back to a vendor or delete stuff.

    I bought pearls for 30 and got myself a costume and underwear while it was on sale cause fuckit the game overall is worth 60 , i spent probably around 400 on gems in gw2 but not a single one of those did I feel i had to pay in order to enjoy the game. In BDO it feels more like someone is punching me in the balls and I'll have to pay em to stop, but that just makes me less inclined to spend money.


  • yucklawyersyucklawyers Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Tiller said:
    It is what it is. Either the game will be good enough and people will pay, or it won't be, and the prices will come down, or the game fold. Supply and demand, you know?

    I hate the GW2 model. That buy anything in the cash shop or on the auction is the worse kind of cash shop. You can gear up to all but ascended in five minutes. Pay to win gone mad, it's slimey.
    OK I'll bite....You never played GW2 really did you? xD
    You cannot buy ascended items from other players, they are all account bound you have to craft them or loot them. Silly and uninformed. Ascended gear drops so much in the game I have tons of it I will never use in my bank and can't give it to anyone.

    If you are talking about legendary, then that is a different story. TBH legendary weapons are no better than ascended gear and barely give an edge over exotic + there is no open world PvP so you aren't winning anything but looks (if that is even a contest). Legendary is really just a skin that you can change the  predetermined value stats (which few use). Everything in BL is appearance and trinkets. You don't need them to be good at the game, and a lot of the stuff that people bother using drops ingame as daily or loot like  expresses and boosters ( I have shit tons I never bought and rarely use) There is even key drops for BL chests.

    I have played hundreds of MMOs since 1999 and I can say GW2 has the least slimy item shop of any B2p game. You just don't have to use it to be good. If you suck, it's because you just suck at the game.

    Next time inform yourself before spouting bs; you'll look less foolish.

    Hahhahahahah, says the girl who completely missed me mentioning "ascended" gear.

    Lol, way to go, clown. Take your fangirlz blinkers off, then we'll discuss. Idiot.
  • SnakexSnakex Member UncommonPosts: 317
    edited April 2016
    I think people forget that for all the items that are in the cash shop is content and incentives that is removed from the game. Like the Amani War bear from ZA in WoW. Would you rather have a time trial dungeon that makes content for guild/friends/ect to earn an exclusive item that shows prestige. Or would you rather just buy it from the cash shop and call it a day?

    Think what Archeage could have done if it was a Sub game with no cash shop or loyalty shop with the whole Thunder Struck tree situation? They could have made an event that hosted a vast amount of Thunder Struck sapling on Islands out in the sea that would have created Naval PvP warfare. But instead of that, we had a simple purchase from a cash shop.
    You cant have an MMORPG with a Cash shop, there will always be more Negatives to it then Positives.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    Snakex said:
    I think people forget that for all the items that are in the cash shop is content and incentives that is removed from the game. Like the Amani War bear from ZA in WoW. Would you rather have a time trial dungeon that makes content for guild/friends/ect to earn an exclusive item that shows prestige. Or would you rather just buy it from the cash shop and call it a day?

    Think what Archeage could have done if it was a Sub game with no cash shop or loyalty shop with the whole Thunder Struck tree situation? They could have made an event that hosted a vast amount of Thunder Struck sapling on Islands out in the sea that would have created Naval PvP warfare. But instead of that, we had a simple purchase from a cash shop.
    You cant have an MMORPG with a Cash shop, there will always be more Negatives to it then Positives.
    It is true that more and more games will be using content that might have been offered via regular questing or through dungeon delves with your guild and friends. 

    It is also true that the average MMORPG player no longer wishes to pay a monthly subscription to any game. They have through the years of development of this trend been shying away from any form of payment that have caused this shift towards a cash shop. This has in my opinion caused the companies to come up with better ways to make money and realising what a lucrative alternative it is too they have embraced it wholeheartedly.

    Every single step towards this cash shop was clearly in our hands the player. The greed or lack of greed in the cash shop is a culmination of years of complaints from players who no longer wanted to pay for games that they do not play daily. Complaining that the days I do not play in the month I subscribe is being wasted. Well here is the unhappy solution to the issue you created.

    While we may never be able to put this genie back into the bottle it might now come a time for compromises and if you wish to continue to play this game make the kind of choices that minimize the effect of this payment model on your game. If you are unable to accept the changes and monetary scheme then it is time to leave the genre altogether or merely stay with the games that represent the best compromise in your eyes.
    Garrus Signature
  • SnakexSnakex Member UncommonPosts: 317
    cheyane said:
    Snakex said:
    I think people forget that for all the items that are in the cash shop is content and incentives that is removed from the game. Like the Amani War bear from ZA in WoW. Would you rather have a time trial dungeon that makes content for guild/friends/ect to earn an exclusive item that shows prestige. Or would you rather just buy it from the cash shop and call it a day?

    Think what Archeage could have done if it was a Sub game with no cash shop or loyalty shop with the whole Thunder Struck tree situation? They could have made an event that hosted a vast amount of Thunder Struck sapling on Islands out in the sea that would have created Naval PvP warfare. But instead of that, we had a simple purchase from a cash shop.
    You cant have an MMORPG with a Cash shop, there will always be more Negatives to it then Positives.
    It is true that more and more games will be using content that might have been offered via regular questing or through dungeon delves with your guild and friends. 

    It is also true that the average MMORPG player no longer wishes to pay a monthly subscription to any game. They have through the years of development of this trend been shying away from any form of payment that have caused this shift towards a cash shop. This has in my opinion caused the companies to come up with better ways to make money and realising what a lucrative alternative it is too they have embraced it wholeheartedly.

    Every single step towards this cash shop was clearly in our hands the player. The greed or lack of greed in the cash shop is a culmination of years of complaints from players who no longer wanted to pay for games that they do not play daily. Complaining that the days I do not play in the month I subscribe is being wasted. Well here is the unhappy solution to the issue you created.

    While we may never be able to put this genie back into the bottle it might now come a time for compromises and if you wish to continue to play this game make the kind of choices that minimize the effect of this payment model on your game. If you are unable to accept the changes and monetary scheme then it is time to leave the genre altogether or merely stay with the games that represent the best compromise in your eyes.
    * If you are unable to accept the changes and monetary scheme then it is time to leave the genre altogether or merely stay with the games that represent the best compromise in your eyes.*
    You dont have to accept a bad change. The proof is in the pudding my friend.
    Tell me one F2P -* MMORPG*-  game that is still going STRONG after 1 year after launch.
    WoW and FF14, Sub games, fucking still in the +5 Million sub list.
    Guild Wars 2 is actually a very good example of a B2P game, GW2 hit 7 mil in October of 2015.
    I would like to give GW2 a cookie for having a proper B2P model, sadly they pay for it in the games mechanics depth.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    edited April 2016
    WoW offers high level characters for a price in their cash shop.  GW2 has a cash shop that converts in game currency to gems. Then gems to real money. I'd say they are firmly in the dodgy cash shop area.
    Garrus Signature
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    ....
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    edited April 2016
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Garrus Signature
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited April 2016
    cheyane said:
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Well gee, Doc, do I have to pay for that analysis?

    It's true I post more in BDO forums than BnS, but that's just cause there's not much to talk about with BnS.  Game is super solid, having a blast.

    I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss a new MMO that is doing things differently than others.

    And seriously, just cause you like an MMO doesn't mean you have to defend it against any and all criticism.  The points I'm making aren't very controversial.  Go to the official forums and you'll see plenty of discussion of the cash shop, outfits and dyes.  It's not like I'm making this up.

    It's telling that you guys are attacking my character rather than the points I'm making.  That's a sure sign that you don't have a leg to stand on in a debate.

    But honestly it's hopeless.  You guys have drunk so much koolaid you can't see straight.  Calling BnS cashshop heavily p2w and aggressive, especially compared to BDO's, is just flat out insanity or ignorance.  Either way, not much point discussing it any further because you two either refuse or unable, due to your condition (fanboitis), to debate the merits of the game rationally.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    I called you jealous based on your posts on BDO . I don't see how that is an attack it is an observation of a pattern that you exhibit by focusing on a game you do not play rather obsessively. Check your post history for reference to that obsession.
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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited April 2016
    cheyane said:
    I called you jealous based on your posts on BDO . I don't see how that is an attack it is an observation of a pattern that you exhibit by focusing on a game you do not play rather obsessively. Check your post history for reference to that obsession.
    I post a lot on the forums period.  BDO just happens to be the new kid on the block, and the monetization model, among other things, is different and worth commenting on.

    The game interests me because I like a lot of things about it, but I despise other things.  I think they really wasted a good opportunity with the game.  I felt the same way about Archeage.  I posted a lot after quitting that game for months because I was so pissed off, but not it was not because I was playing another MMO and was jealous Archeage was getting attention.  If you're so keen on my post history, go have a look.

    If it was about jealousy or whatever you'd see me in the WoW forums all day bashing it.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    cheyane said:
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Well gee, Doc, do I have to pay for that analysis?

    It's true I post more in BDO forums than BnS, but that's just cause there's not much to talk about with BnS.  Game is super solid, having a blast.

    I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss a new MMO that is doing things differently than others.

    And seriously, just cause you like an MMO doesn't mean you have to defend it against any and all criticism.  The points I'm making aren't very controversial.  Go to the official forums and you'll see plenty of discussion of the cash shop, outfits and dyes.  It's not like I'm making this up.

    It's telling that you guys are attacking my character rather than the points I'm making.  That's a sure sign that you don't have a leg to stand on in a debate.

    But honestly it's hopeless.  You guys have drunk so much koolaid you can't see straight.  Calling BnS cashshop heavily p2w and aggressive, especially compared to BDO's, is just flat out insanity or ignorance.  Either way, not much point discussing it any further because you two either refuse or unable, due to your condition (fanboitis), to debate the merits of the game rationally.
    No reason to get defensive, we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game? Perhaps you think BDO should also have outright p2w monetization like that as well? 

    Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game.

    You should of course be allowed to discuss mmos, but your continued unfounded trashing of the game and  labeling of anyone who calls you out a fanboi and other unpleasant things is fairly annoying - especially given how hypocritical it is.
    ....
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited April 2016
    YashaX said:
    cheyane said:
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Well gee, Doc, do I have to pay for that analysis?

    It's true I post more in BDO forums than BnS, but that's just cause there's not much to talk about with BnS.  Game is super solid, having a blast.

    I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss a new MMO that is doing things differently than others.

    And seriously, just cause you like an MMO doesn't mean you have to defend it against any and all criticism.  The points I'm making aren't very controversial.  Go to the official forums and you'll see plenty of discussion of the cash shop, outfits and dyes.  It's not like I'm making this up.

    It's telling that you guys are attacking my character rather than the points I'm making.  That's a sure sign that you don't have a leg to stand on in a debate.

    But honestly it's hopeless.  You guys have drunk so much koolaid you can't see straight.  Calling BnS cashshop heavily p2w and aggressive, especially compared to BDO's, is just flat out insanity or ignorance.  Either way, not much point discussing it any further because you two either refuse or unable, due to your condition (fanboitis), to debate the merits of the game rationally.
    No reason to get defensive, we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game? Perhaps you think BDO should also have outright p2w monetization like that as well? 

    Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game.

    You should of course be allowed to discuss mmos, but your continued unfounded trashing of the game and  labeling of anyone who calls you out a fanboi and other unpleasant things is fairly annoying - especially given how hypocritical it is.
    Stop calling me a hypocrite if you don't want me to defend myself.  Besides, you are purposefully trying to make this about me and not BDO.

    "we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game?"

    It is prohibiltively expensive to get the best gear by paying money in BnS.  I'm talking over $5,000, just to get top gear in the content we currently have, and thousands later when they update.  Nobody does it, so it's not a problem.  Not to mention you don't need top gear to do the content and OWPVP is just for fun, it's not the main focus of the endgame.  Even if you paid this $5,000, it would mean very little because you can't win anything with it- especially not in Arena since gear is equalized (i.e. everyone has the same gear in Arena)

    In BDO, you pay $30 and you get an advantage in OWPVP in an environment where OWPVP is the endgame.  You can't get the same advantage in-game.  Cost isn't prohibitive so you encounter it a lot.

    In BnS, nobody p2ws through the cash shop.  In BDO, you have to.

    Can you see the difference?  No, of course you can't.  You're a raging fanboy.

    "Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game."

    Most of the fans of the game that post frequently on MMORPG.com are not at endgame.  The game is designed to be appealing initially to draw you in and then make you want to pay more and more as you go (like all the worst f2p models).  If you're still 25 and you spend your time afk fishing and doing the side activities, sure, treant suits and ellon's tears aren't going to bother you much- you can't even pvp at that level.

    Paid advantages don't matter to people that don't even compete.

    But even still, they'll be lacking a lot of basic MMO things most take for granted if they don't pay- like having more than 1 shabby torn outfit to wear.

    It's honestly a joke how Daum puts you in one outfit and it's torn and raggedy.  If you don't find that insulting on a basic level- then I don't know what to say.


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    YashaX said:
    cheyane said:
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Well gee, Doc, do I have to pay for that analysis?

    It's true I post more in BDO forums than BnS, but that's just cause there's not much to talk about with BnS.  Game is super solid, having a blast.

    I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss a new MMO that is doing things differently than others.

    And seriously, just cause you like an MMO doesn't mean you have to defend it against any and all criticism.  The points I'm making aren't very controversial.  Go to the official forums and you'll see plenty of discussion of the cash shop, outfits and dyes.  It's not like I'm making this up.

    It's telling that you guys are attacking my character rather than the points I'm making.  That's a sure sign that you don't have a leg to stand on in a debate.

    But honestly it's hopeless.  You guys have drunk so much koolaid you can't see straight.  Calling BnS cashshop heavily p2w and aggressive, especially compared to BDO's, is just flat out insanity or ignorance.  Either way, not much point discussing it any further because you two either refuse or unable, due to your condition (fanboitis), to debate the merits of the game rationally.
    No reason to get defensive, we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game? Perhaps you think BDO should also have outright p2w monetization like that as well? 

    Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game.

    You should of course be allowed to discuss mmos, but your continued unfounded trashing of the game and  labeling of anyone who calls you out a fanboi and other unpleasant things is fairly annoying - especially given how hypocritical it is.
     Stop calling me a hypocrite if you don't want me to defend myself.  Besides, you are purposefully trying to make this about me and not BDO.

    "we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game?"

    It is prohibiltively expensive to get the best gear by paying money in BnS.  I'm talking over $5,000, just to get top gear in the content we currently have, and thousands later when they update.  Nobody does it, so it's not a problem.  Not to mention you don't need top gear to do the content and OWPVP is just for fun, it's not the main focus of the endgame.  Even if you paid this $5,000, it would mean very little because you can't win anything with it- especially not in Arena since gear is equalized (i.e. everyone has the same gear in Arena)

    In BDO, you pay $30 and you get an advantage in OWPVP in an environment where OWPVP is the endgame.  You can't get the same advantage in-game.  Cost isn't prohibitive so you encounter it a lot.

    In BnS, nobody p2ws through the cash shop.  In BDO, you have to.

    Can you see the difference?  No, of course you can't.  You're a raging fanboy.

    "Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game."

    Most of the fans of the game that post frequently on MMORPG.com are not at endgame.  The game is designed to be appealing initially to draw you in and then make you want to pay more and more as you go (like all the worst f2p models).  If you're still 25 and you spend your time afk fishing and doing the side activities, sure, treant suits and ellon's tears aren't going to bother you much- you can't even pvp at that level.

    Paid advantages don't matter to people that don't even want to compete.


    You seem to be the only one raging and name calling here matey.

    Look what you just wrote- minus the name calling. You make all these excuses for the money vacuum p2w system in BnS and at the same time post in nearly every BDO thread how terrible a $30 treant suit that hides a name plate is.

    You are telling us with a straight face that its fine to be able to spend vast sums of money to p2w in BnS but paying $30 is outrageous? You know for a fact that no one buys gear in BnS? All those poor gold sellers! 

    ....
  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    YashaX said:
    YashaX said:
    cheyane said:
    YashaX said:


    I'm subbed and I've bought NCoin, but it was NEVER because I felt I had to to enjoy the game, in any way shape or form.  THIS is how cash shops should be done.  I give them money because I like the game and want to support it and get a few fringe benefits- NOT because I feel I need to to enjoy the game or have fun.

    Blade and Soul has managed to make money and maintain the servers without an aggressive cash shop, or even an "aggressive" sub option.

    BnS is a prime example of a heavily p2w f2p game with an aggressive cash shop. I find it laughable that you hold that up as an example of how cash shops should be be done, and claim that you don't need to buy anything to enjoy the game while insisting that people need to buy items in BDO - a game that you don't even play - to enjoy it.
    Well put YashaX the hypocrisy is strong in that one. The problem with Holden is sheer jealousy because his game of choice is nowhere in the front page of discussion on any given day while BDO is there with several topics. So he comes on almost every BDO topic in the pretext of making posts that are critical when it is merely the jealous ravings of a very biased player that sees his game of choice being sidelined and less popular. So he lashes out understandably. 
    Well gee, Doc, do I have to pay for that analysis?

    It's true I post more in BDO forums than BnS, but that's just cause there's not much to talk about with BnS.  Game is super solid, having a blast.

    I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to discuss a new MMO that is doing things differently than others.

    And seriously, just cause you like an MMO doesn't mean you have to defend it against any and all criticism.  The points I'm making aren't very controversial.  Go to the official forums and you'll see plenty of discussion of the cash shop, outfits and dyes.  It's not like I'm making this up.

    It's telling that you guys are attacking my character rather than the points I'm making.  That's a sure sign that you don't have a leg to stand on in a debate.

    But honestly it's hopeless.  You guys have drunk so much koolaid you can't see straight.  Calling BnS cashshop heavily p2w and aggressive, especially compared to BDO's, is just flat out insanity or ignorance.  Either way, not much point discussing it any further because you two either refuse or unable, due to your condition (fanboitis), to debate the merits of the game rationally.
    No reason to get defensive, we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game? Perhaps you think BDO should also have outright p2w monetization like that as well? 

    Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game.

    You should of course be allowed to discuss mmos, but your continued unfounded trashing of the game and  labeling of anyone who calls you out a fanboi and other unpleasant things is fairly annoying - especially given how hypocritical it is.
     Stop calling me a hypocrite if you don't want me to defend myself.  Besides, you are purposefully trying to make this about me and not BDO.

    "we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game?"

    It is prohibiltively expensive to get the best gear by paying money in BnS.  I'm talking over $5,000, just to get top gear in the content we currently have, and thousands later when they update.  Nobody does it, so it's not a problem.  Not to mention you don't need top gear to do the content and OWPVP is just for fun, it's not the main focus of the endgame.  Even if you paid this $5,000, it would mean very little because you can't win anything with it- especially not in Arena since gear is equalized (i.e. everyone has the same gear in Arena)

    In BDO, you pay $30 and you get an advantage in OWPVP in an environment where OWPVP is the endgame.  You can't get the same advantage in-game.  Cost isn't prohibitive so you encounter it a lot.

    In BnS, nobody p2ws through the cash shop.  In BDO, you have to.

    Can you see the difference?  No, of course you can't.  You're a raging fanboy.

    "Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game."

    Most of the fans of the game that post frequently on MMORPG.com are not at endgame.  The game is designed to be appealing initially to draw you in and then make you want to pay more and more as you go (like all the worst f2p models).  If you're still 25 and you spend your time afk fishing and doing the side activities, sure, treant suits and ellon's tears aren't going to bother you much- you can't even pvp at that level.

    Paid advantages don't matter to people that don't even want to compete.


    You seem to be the only one raging and name calling here matey.

    Look what you just wrote- minus the name calling. You make all these excuses for the money vacuum p2w system in BnS and at the same time post in nearly every BDO thread how terrible a $30 treant suit that hides a name plate is.

    You are telling us with a straight face that its fine to be able to spend vast sums of money to p2w in BnS but paying $30 is outrageous? You know for a fact that no one buys gear in BnS? All those poor gold sellers! 

    Yeah, it's a problem if you're able to spend a hundred or two and get big advantages, especially when you can't aquire them in game.

    "You are telling us with a straight face that its fine to be able to spend vast sums of money to p2w in BnS but paying $30 is outrageous?"

    Kind of, but it's really hard to communicate through your filter.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited April 2016
    YashaX said:

    No reason to get defensive, we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game? Perhaps you think BDO should also have outright p2w monetization like that as well? 

    Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game.

    You should of course be allowed to discuss mmos, but your continued unfounded trashing of the game and  labeling of anyone who calls you out a fanboi and other unpleasant things is fairly annoying - especially given how hypocritical it is.
    Stop calling me a hypocrite if you don't want me to defend myself.  Besides, you are purposefully trying to make this about me and not BDO.

    "we are just confused why you think BnS's cash shop is so great considering a player can buy the best gear with a credit card in that game?"

    It is prohibiltively expensive to get the best gear by paying money in BnS.  I'm talking over $5,000, just to get top gear in the content we currently have, and thousands later when they update.  Nobody does it, so it's not a problem.  Not to mention you don't need top gear to do the content and OWPVP is just for fun, it's not the main focus of the endgame.  Even if you paid this $5,000, it would mean very little because you can't win anything with it- especially not in Arena since gear is equalized (i.e. everyone has the same gear in Arena)

    In BDO, you pay $30 and you get an advantage in OWPVP in an environment where OWPVP is the endgame.  You can't get the same advantage in-game.  Cost isn't prohibitive so you encounter it a lot.

    In BnS, nobody p2ws through the cash shop.  In BDO, you have to.

    Can you see the difference?  No, of course you can't.  You're a raging fanboy.

    "Also confused as to how you can insist that people HAVE to buy cash shop items to enjoy themselves in BDO considering 1) you don't play the game and 2) many people here who do play it have repeatedly told you that they don't feel the need to spend any additional money to enjoy the game."

    Most of the fans of the game that post frequently on MMORPG.com are not at endgame.  The game is designed to be appealing initially to draw you in and then make you want to pay more and more as you go (like all the worst f2p models).  If you're still 25 and you spend your time afk fishing and doing the side activities, sure, treant suits and ellon's tears aren't going to bother you much- you can't even pvp at that level.

    Paid advantages don't matter to people that don't even compete.

    But even still, they'll be lacking a lot of basic MMO things most take for granted if they don't pay- like having more than 1 shabby torn outfit to wear.

    It's honestly a joke how Daum puts you in one outfit and it's torn and raggedy.  If you don't find that insulting on a basic level- then I don't know what to say.



    Point being, you don't know of what you speak of, and you won't know unless you play the game.  And I say that with all the kindness in my heart.  Most of the negative stuff you hear about BDO on forums has very little to do with any of the specific issues you speak of in your post, and more to do with the fact that the game simply does not meet these poster's preference in game play.  They are just picking at straws in an effort to justify their dislike for BDO's game play.  It is a given that BDO is not for everyone. That does not make it a bad game.  Does it have areas in which it can be improved upon, of course it does.  All games do.  But the positives far outweigh the negatives, and you would not know that unless you played the game.

    There have been many more posts pointing out the positives about BDO on forums, by far, than pointing out any negatives.  Yet you have chosen to believe the negatives, even though you haven't even played the game, or experienced its game play, to corroborate those negatives or be in a position to form an independent decision.  Long story short, the obsessive rage hate that has been exhibited by you for BDO is hand-picked second hand info, thereby rendering itself not credible from this source of origin.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    In a game like Blade and Soul that is infested with bots real money is only a matter of conversion of in game gold to Ncoin . There is an exchange system is there not ?

    So you can definitely buy the best gear in BnS for cash easily.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    I should really ask my psy friend to make a study about people who go on a hate crusade about video games they don't even play and don't plan to play.

    Since I'm not doing it myself, once I decided I won't play a game (anymore or ever), I leave it's forum, I really can't figure out a reason why someone would do that. Life is so short when it comes to entertainment... it's certainly too short to spend your time hating the forms of entertainment you dislike, I rather focus on the ones I enjoy.

    To each his own. I wouldn't even mind if there wasn't that forum pollution resulting from it for the legit players trying to exchange information about the game.
    I still might buy the game, believe it or not.  It's unlikely (mostly because it's likely that the monetization methods will get worse, not better), but it's still possible.  I like a lot of aspects about the game and I'm (obviously) still interested in it.

    Sure, posting about a game I'm not playing isn't the most productive use of my time.  But people post on forums debating politics or whatever- I just happen to be into MMOs.

    Anyway, you guys can try to paint me as some crazed lunatic all you want, the fact remains- BDO's cash shop sucks balls.


  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    I should really ask my psy friend to make a study about people who go on a hate crusade about video games they don't even play and don't plan to play.

    Since I'm not doing it myself, once I decided I won't play a game (anymore or ever), I leave it's forum, I really can't figure out a reason why someone would do that. Life is so short when it comes to entertainment... it's certainly too short to spend your time hating the forms of entertainment you dislike, I rather focus on the ones I enjoy.

    To each his own. I wouldn't even mind if there wasn't that forum pollution resulting from it for the legit players trying to exchange information about the game.
    Great idea! Pay him a visit and ask him about people who blindly support games and belittle others who disagree with them as well. It should go pretty quickly since he'll have a live subject in the room with him already.  
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Since I didn't post any names, it's quite interesting to see who feels targeted by my post, both in answers and in the likes they get. Some are going to say it only makes the obvious more obvious, but still.

    So these posters are clearly very aware that they are on a crusade against BDO, at least that's a start, since that's the people I was talking about in my previous post, in answer to the OP video.
    You said you were blocking me. Aw...you do care. I love you too.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    edited April 2016
    I should really ask my psy friend to make a study about people who go on a hate crusade about video games they don't even play and don't plan to play.

    Since I'm not doing it myself, once I decided I won't play a game (anymore or ever), I leave it's forum, I really can't figure out a reason why someone would do that. Life is so short when it comes to entertainment... it's certainly too short to spend your time hating the forms of entertainment you dislike, I rather focus on the ones I enjoy.

    To each his own. I wouldn't even mind if there wasn't that forum pollution resulting from it for the legit players trying to exchange information about the game.
    I still might buy the game, believe it or not.  It's unlikely (mostly because it's likely that the monetization methods will get worse, not better), but it's still possible.  I like a lot of aspects about the game and I'm (obviously) still interested in it.

    Sure, posting about a game I'm not playing isn't the most productive use of my time.  But people post on forums debating politics or whatever- I just happen to be into MMOs.

    Anyway, you guys can try to paint me as some crazed lunatic all you want, the fact remains- BDO's cash shop sucks balls.



    So melodramatic. I am certainly not trying to paint you as "some crazed lunatic", but the fact remains that BDO's cash shop is almost completely non-p2w compared to BnS's and other heavily p2w games like that where you can just buy gear with cash.

    In BnS players can spend thousands of dollars to gain a massive advantage and bypass actually playing the game - you hold this up as a great monetization scheme.

    In BDO a few cash shop items offer a very minor benefit (relative to being able to buy the best gear with cash like in BnS) for a very low cost (again compared to the supposedly great model in BnS where you say $5,000 will net you the best gear) and you have to earn everything in game. There is no way to pay to bypass playing the game or getting top gear - you actually have to play the game, such a novel concept.

    Post edited by YashaX on
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