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All the new games suck....
Rekindle
Member UncommonPosts: 1,206
Lots of people predicted that the online gaming market would grow by leaps and bounds, so it was no big secret to see the mushroom effect of new games coming out.
However, %99 of them are complete garbage. I am perplexed at this. You would think developers would get smarter at making video games, instead they are getting dumber. Seriously though, the developer community are coming up with the dumbest ideas for games followed by flops of stupid games.
The community consistiently says game "x" crap, game "y" crap, crap, crap, crap. I mean, there are always a couple people who are exceptions which is to be expected. But seriously, between the antics of SOE and their dibaco, and the horrid "2nd" generation of mmo games something is seriously lost.
I think I'm starting to agree that the "golden age" of the MMO genre has come to an end. We didn't know what we had until they nerfed it out of existence.
The simultanious releases of WoW / EQ2 marked the end.
Comments
From a game developer's standpoint this makes perfect sense:
Put as little effort into a project as possible and still make a product that will net as big a profit as possible.
That's the formula. Until players stop PAYING for garbage it will never change.
I don't blame the game companies. I blame the sheep that pay for crappy games that offer no new ideas or gameplay.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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Still in: A couple Betas
Yes because the main MMO customer base now always is looking for an MMO to have active. So they will continue to grind out trash until that changes and people stop bouncing from one peice of garbage to the next trying to get their MMO fix in.
I don't see the quality of originality of MMO's changing anytime soon.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Haha I was right. All the second generation games were crap except Worlds of Warcraft which was OK. God damn I need to dig up the post where I said that.
You guys should look at the Korean Market more. Less of thier upcoming mmos are being grinds, but they mainly focus on PvP. Plus they coming out with innovative features. So stop being so judgemental on the crap the Korean games went through, and the crap the American games are about to go through and check out them.
Do you think that blizzard has invested less in creating WoW then most of the older games? I'm pretty sure the production values on the game are huge, way higher then before.
The problem with this is that with such investments you can't take any risks. Having the game flop can mean the end of a (pretty big) company. They have to play on safe, otherwise they'll never get the amount of money from investors that they need.
Indeed the Golden Age of MMORPG's have been here and has passed. It seems we are in a Dark Age now, figuritively speaking.
I felt the Golden Age started when UO and EQ were battling it out. Soon, WoW/EQ2 came out to turn the MMO world into a mainstream world. Similar to how Green Day is now too mainstream for me to handle.
Everything has it's time, I'm sure the MMO world will spin back around, whether it takes a couple of months with the Vanguard release or a couple of years with the return of Ultima Online (we hope). No one knows, only time can tell, I'm afraid.
I've lost faith in Blizzard, it's almost as if they think their too good now. Too good to return to Starcraft or Diablo. We've seen the same in EA and SoE. Maybe the small companies will uprise and serve to the MMO needs.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
I totally agree with Elnator!
I've been preaching this for years now...STOP BUYING THEIR JUNK!! If you really need to play something, get a really good single player game that allows mods. But please stop rewarding these F#*kers for making shit!
I haven't played a MMOG in over 16 months, and I'm going to continue to boycott them until they (developers) pull their heads out of their A$$es and start producing some high quality MMOGs. Elnator is right on the money...I blame the sheeple who float from game-to-game passively handing over their money to play in yet another steaming pile of shit! It is the undiscriminating, undemanding, unsophisticated "gamers" who are to blame for the sorry state of MMOGs today.
Nonsense, the best is yet to come.
There has always been 10 flops to every hit. As the industry grows and the technology advances more games will be produced.
Most of the shoddy games still make small advances in the genre. All it takes then is a talented bunch to assimilate as many of those innovations as possible into one quality package, and you have another hit.
The beauty of WoW is not any single one of it's well produced features, but the successful combination of so many all at the same time. Individually viewed, each feature has been done before and brings nothing new. There is so much to do and see and so many different approaches to gaming catered for in one program that it appeals to a very wide audience.
Sooner or later (my guess is later) another monster software will repeat WoW's success and amalgamate all the new little innovations/gimmicks that each new game brings.
The massive success of WOW is a financial inspiration to research and develop new products on a scale never before seen. Many smaller developments will also continue to refine and explore their own currently successful products and further advance the groupmind.
It's just getting started. The video games industry is only 30 years old. Think about the advancements in avionics or motor cars or the movie business over the last 100 years. It's just begun.
I totaly agree with this topic off and on. For instance yes why do we pay for these games monthly. It adds up to be alot after awhile. For a simple game? Another thing is the these free MMORPG's that are comming out are better then the ones people pay for.
My point of view for this is. The only decent MMOPRG at this time worth pay for would be eve-online. The game is insane, graphics are good and you can do what ever you want. Just really time consuming but hey what MMORPG isnt now right.
And my view of the worst monthly fee MMORPG would have to be World Of Warcraft. I did the beta for this game and didnt feel it was worth paying for. It doesnt even feel like a MMO, you could do most of the same stuff if you were playing offline.. The only thing i see a use for an internet connection in that game is to chat and thats it. Blizzard should stick to there offline games.
WoW is, honestly, a very good MMO in it's own right. It's bright, colorful, easy to play (and somewhat casual player friendly), and from what I can tell it's the most moddable MMO out there. Sure, it's only the interface, but that's more than what I've seen in most MMORPGs.
WoW gets rid of death penalties (well, almost), which is what frustrates many players and puts a cap on their development (and thus makes them quit), which is a plus for the casual player. It also has the rested EXP system, which also helps casual players, though generally not enough.
WoW is pretty much the pinnacle of first generation MMOs, which is why it has done so well. Unfortunately, it hasn't brought very much new to the table (except interface modding). If a new MMO comes along that has the same production quality of WoW but more advanced and refined gameplay, then it will probably see the same crowds and be a major success. And an inspiration for other games to advance the gameplay of MMORPGs.
how can you say we've reached the pinacle when there are so many scenerios that havnt even been introduced to an MMO? what I mean is, MMO's primarily are medievel and futuristic. So, how many successful games have you played that were neither? One of the most popular table top game companies, white wolf, has an incredible horror theme. How about planescape or rifts? Remember how popular fallout was?
and look at all the ideas people have for gaming and what they want, theres an extremely high cieling that hasnt been reached yet.
what is growing old, are game designers..specifically MMO designers. I see a lot of recycled names in the MMO world.
Lets not forget that 3d MMO's are like only 8 years old. Not every MMO is going to be a smash either, just like any video game. I can make a very short list of single player RPG's that really got my time, and this list goes back to the mid 80's.
all i can say, is if you agree with the OP you havnt been involved in computer gaming..or computers very long. those of us who have been involved with computer gaming since ..well basically the invention of the first home computer know how quickly and drastically the computer game world evolves. As each new and rare bar raising game is released, the following huge title becomes even bigger.
look what quake did to the 3d world when they took advantage of the monster and voodoo chipsets. it changed 3d gaming forever.
anyway, think what you want.. MMO's have really just begun.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Well, is it not a case of the average long term MMO'er has simply become rather 'used' to MMO's? The 1st one was a totaly new experience. The 2nd was an attempt to fulfill the hunger and eventualy its no longer a new gaming experience ( where have i heard that expression before ;P ).
Expectations will always excede technology.
This sounds suspiciously like the inane chatter of pseudo guru Richard Bartle.
"Expectations will always excede technology." Hehe, PC MMOG developers are so far behind the curve it's really quite embarrassing. The last generation console single player games are much better in most ways than the "nextgen" PC MMOGs.
I don't know when it'll reach MMOs, or even when it'll fully develop in single-player RPGs, but I really think the next evolution in video games is going to revolve around morality decisions. BioWare's already made strides in that area with the Baldur's Gate series, Knights of the Old Republic, and Jade Empire. At the moment, the morality systems in RPGs are pretty black and white ("I will feed the helpless puppy!" or "I will leave the puppy to starve!"), but the designers of Jade Empire at least paid lip service to a more complex reality, even if they didn't quite achieve it.
By changing the focus of the game from mindless fragfest ("I'll be right there, I just need to kill 130 more rabid dogs before I ding") to decision making ("I'll be there soon, but I'm trying to decide whether I want to shuttle all the way to Cambria to track down a vaccine for these rabid dogs, or if I'll just save myself the trip and put them down), you open up an entirely new realm of experience.
One of the most memorable games I ever played was a text game on my brother's Commodore 64 called "Alter Ego." It was a multiple choice game that started at birth and ended at death, and each choice you made affected how you'd end up. It was designed by psychologists, had a male and female version, and was an unbelievably compelling experience at the time. I remember sitting in that hard, wooden desk chair for hours deciding whether or not to examine that shiny thing on the floor, whether or not to cry when the man with the bushy mustache talked loudly by the crib, whether or not to take that job bagging groceries, whether or not to take that drink at the party, whether or not to get married, have kids, walk to the pharmacy to get a perscription refilled, etc. When I finally suffered a heart attack on the sidewalk on the way to the pharmacy, I really felt a profound sense of loss, but also a profound sense of achievement. I'd lived an entire life in several hours, and I made it out the other side with a husband, children, grandchildren, and everything important. When I played the game a second time, I died at the age of two for making what seemed like a perfectly rational decision. If even a fraction of that could be conveyed in a modern MMO, it would be absolutely stunning.
(For anyone interested, Alter Ego was more or less translated into a browser-based game that's available to play for free in several locations. Here's one of them: Alter Ego )
Some great insights in the replies here, I enjoy that. To ellborate on my orignal point......
The last year or so in MMORPG gaming has been a year of lessons for me. The first thing I've come to accept is that I'm a gaming enthusasist just like someone who collects comics is an enthusasist. I had to come to this realization because I needed to answer the question "Why do I care?"
The second realization I've come to is: what has come before will not come again. What I mean by that is if someone came out with a game exactly like Everquest 1 I'm not sure it would be caputure me. Some people have said that the reason an EQ classic server would never do well is because everyone knows where to find Freeport and the Estate of Unrest. I would go further and say everyone knows the leveling treadmill and that you don't get a cleric to be the main tank and an enchanter doing the heals....and I daresay many who have gone through the grind of the old days have moved beyond that in their gaming desires.
That probably explains the plethora of posts here and on places like the Vanguard OT forums about how devoid we are of any quality games. The jaugernaughts of MMO games are letting down their long time vets by spinning out more of the same old crap rather then making new stuff that has evolved with their vets. The big wigs seem to be recycling their titles (or cloning new ones along the same lines and slapping the number "2" on them ) to appeal to new players rather then their loyal fans (the biggest case of that being SOE).
The two realizations have lead me to a couple conclusions. The first is I actually know something about computer games, the evolution of the technology behind them and the history of this genre (which has the side effect of making me feel old). The other realization (which i've mentioned before) is that perhaps the people marketing this new line of games aren't marketing to my seasoned experience.
Regardless, I don't accept the argument that the genre is young. The developers are on crack, thats the only explanation. Maybe its my experience or the games I've played but this new line of games insults my intelligence and no doubt many of the other cash carrying paying collegues of mine who paved the way with me. We went through the lag, days of duping exploits and crazy clicklie crafting menus of UO for this? We went through the grindfest, 3 minutes to zone, VT quests of Everquest to arrive at this? Indeed, the vets are being snubbed in this new age of gaming.
The techonlogy has evolved, but the quality of games have de-evolved inversly with it. The idea that developers have gone stale, I feel, is the dominant one. The genre should be farther then this, there should be more innovation instead of the same old recycled crap which seems to get worse with each release.
Although I have limited delusions of grandeur, I would expect that some game maker out there has sufficient, collective brainpower to figure out you can only piss off your "vets" for so long and the market only goes so deep. If I'm wrong (which so far I have been) then the aforementioned Golden Age I spoke of is over. MMORPG video games are flavors of cheap ice cream that all come in basically the same sized tub. In the end it wont matter because no matter which one you eat it will leave your wallet that much more empty and a case of the sh##s.
MMORPGs have gone stale because of the process of funding an MMORPG. Publishers hear, "Totally new" and think, "Untested" and "Risky". They hear, "Like Game X" and they think "X has players, so this will have players". Therefore, games like other games get funding.
If a company can produce a MMORPG production suite, and I mean a _real_ in depth program with a universally accepted 3d engine, more base objects and building blocks and creates and races and items than 20 MMORPGs could ever hope to use, all of the basic coding of the client and server, ect... then there would be a program that could cut the development costs of MMORPGs to 1/10th of their current value. And at that point, we might see more experimentation. But such a project could cost an even more massive amount of cash and I'm sure many people would not accept it. Some existing MMORPG building software does _not_ cut it, as the makers of the program make themselves out to be the publishers so they can cut some of the profit if a game charges, and this stifles development since the code is forever locked to that publisher.
The kind of morality you're talking about would be very welcome in an MMO. In most MMOs the only way to be evil is to generally be a prick to other players. All of the quests revolve around doing good deeds, or serving some cause. I'd like to see a game where the stealthy character is sent to rob a house, or the fighter character might get hired to force villagers to pay their high taxes. That would be a start.
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.
What about an unreal engine?
Vanguard is licensing the unreal engine so they can spend more time working on the game and less on the engine. Vanguard (among a couple others) is my last hope. If Vanguard falls on its ass (which I strongly doubht it will, but if it does) I will retire from MMO gaming.
The only mmo's I will pay for are the ones that are space themes and have a tiwtch based combat system in it. Or a Tron/Reboot(or in a nutshell, computer cyberspace) style theme mmo.
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Give me lights give me action. With a touch of a button!
One man's trash is another man's treasure. I personally think DAoC is craptacilar, but you happen to enjoy it.
Imo, now that the market has expanded a bit more, companies will be willing to invest in mmo projects. Take for example the latest Bioware announcements. I'm positive that you'll see clones of prior games, but at the same time plenty of innovative ideas.
I think too many people view past through rose colored glass.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Golden age of MMOP sure has passed.
Nothing like when Ultima Online first came out.. it was an eye opener and I remember losing sleep playing that game.
Now? Nothing.. no recent game has yet to keep me hooked. World of Warcraft is currently the best in my opinion, simply because the leveling process is fantastic. But at level 60, the game just died. I still play it, but that's just because I have nothing else to play.
I hope Vanguard or Hero's Journey or Age of Conan will be a new experience. I really do.