Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
Lies, you don't exist according to some posters here, "everyone" hates garrisons, because,.....well just because they said so.
As for those claiming this is a deal breaker and they'll quit (or more likely not return) all I can say is...why are you still playing WOW anyways?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hehe, some guys here!! When/If WoW drops to 1mil subs, they ll still keep insisting everything is ok. "Hey man, i play WoW and i love it, so do 1 million subs also" And of course i dont play WoW anymore, the facebook style gameplay was a deal breaker for me. But sure guys you are more than welcome to give your money to Warlords 2.0. But i ll sure as hell complain about the quality of the product. Although, the hate for garrisons from the alpha testers is so strong that i bet they ll make changes. I still hope!
Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
And this is the reason 6 million players left.
No, the reason 6 million players left is 2 fold, 1. Content droughts, far too long without any meaningful content patches between expansions and 2. Dumming down of the classes and talent speccing. The rest of the game is essentially still the same with a few tweaks here and there but the soul of the game has gone the wrong way. Based on Legion's item list, it seems as if Blizzard is finally realizing this and addressing it. I hope it works, I still enjoy WoW but definitely want to get that magic back that it had all the way up to the launch of WotLK.
Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
And this is the reason 6 million players left.
No, the reason 6 million players left is 2 fold, 1. Content droughts, far too long without any meaningful content patches between expansions and 2. Dumming down of the classes and talent speccing. The rest of the game is essentially still the same with a few tweaks here and there but the soul of the game has gone the wrong way. Based on Legion's item list, it seems as if Blizzard is finally realizing this and addressing it. I hope it works, I still enjoy WoW but definitely want to get that magic back that it had all the way up to the launch of WotLK.
Right So its not the introduction of garrisons and the absolute desertification of the world. Its not the 100% lobby style gameplay that was introduced. The absolute end of world pvp. The easy mode gameplay. The free epic gear. The LFR mechanics that made the endgame noninteresting for ppl except the most hardcore guilds. The destruction of the professions. The simplified classes. Rest of the game is still the same you say? Damn man...are we talking about Warlords of Draenor? Probably i was playing a different WoW.
Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
And this is the reason 6 million players left.
No, the reason 6 million players left is 2 fold, 1. Content droughts, far too long without any meaningful content patches between expansions and 2. Dumming down of the classes and talent speccing. The rest of the game is essentially still the same with a few tweaks here and there but the soul of the game has gone the wrong way. Based on Legion's item list, it seems as if Blizzard is finally realizing this and addressing it. I hope it works, I still enjoy WoW but definitely want to get that magic back that it had all the way up to the launch of WotLK.
Right So its not the introduction of garrisons and the absolute desertification of the world. Its not the 100% lobby style gameplay that was introduced. The absolute end of world pvp. The easy mode gameplay. The free epic gear. The LFR mechanics that made the endgame noninteresting for ppl except the most hardcore guilds. The destruction of the professions. The simplified classes. Rest of the game is still the same you say? Damn man...are we talking about Warlords of Draenor? Probably i was playing a different WoW.
World PvP pretty much was diying there are more care bear then pvper. LFR is good on some level that people who are not part of a big guild are part of a small guild that can join in a queue get in one and don't feel like there can't gear up due to gates. But the bad part does push people away that don't think that your $15 a month should do the content there way and feel like even if you payed your fair share should not see it. Professions was doing down hill from day one when it's not maintain after each xpack.
Not sure what Blizzard can do at this point if they take away system or option end up losing people anyhow. Seem like Blizzard just riding the wave until people move on.
Personally, I haven't gotten to even try garrisons yet, but looking in on it from an outside perspective it looks like just another kind of daily grind that people are expected to do. Really, the best idea is to avoid those whenever possible if you don't like monotony: I got stuck in the skinner box trap for a long while because of dailies in Wrath - Pandaria. In the end, all that gold just keeps stacking up eternally and does nothing. The reputation grind is basically pointless unless someone wants a cosmetic trophy no one cares about, etc.
I don't mind having them in the game, but I do mind when people only log in for 30 minutes to do garrison quests, make 500k a month and log out. At least make us get out and explore the game world imo.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
Amazing they simply wont learn...i think for some sinister reason they are trying to kill the game. Yes they are using garrisons again!!!!!!!!!!
Just because you dont like them, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I love them. Ive made boatloads of gold this expansion off of them.. instead of spending hours flying around fighting for resources I can log in, do all my garrsions, and be done.
And this is the reason 6 million players left.
No, the reason 6 million players left is 2 fold, 1. Content droughts, far too long without any meaningful content patches between expansions and 2. Dumming down of the classes and talent speccing. The rest of the game is essentially still the same with a few tweaks here and there but the soul of the game has gone the wrong way. Based on Legion's item list, it seems as if Blizzard is finally realizing this and addressing it. I hope it works, I still enjoy WoW but definitely want to get that magic back that it had all the way up to the launch of WotLK.
Right So its not the introduction of garrisons and the absolute desertification of the world. Its not the 100% lobby style gameplay that was introduced. The absolute end of world pvp. The easy mode gameplay. The free epic gear. The LFR mechanics that made the endgame noninteresting for ppl except the most hardcore guilds. The destruction of the professions. The simplified classes. Rest of the game is still the same you say? Damn man...are we talking about Warlords of Draenor? Probably i was playing a different WoW.
Nope. It's not. I like LFR and thought it helped the game. World PVP still exists. Easy mode is because everyone got used to the game, that's what happens after 10 years playing a game. Free epic gear doesn't really make people come or go, so that's moot. Professions have always been topsy turvy, at least now Garrisons let me level them up without the worries I had before they existed. I already said simplified classes...did you not read what I wrote?
For some reason, the access to the internet makes people think that their opinion is fact...........
OP, post some facts please......because right now.....you just sound like Donald Trump......shouting and mixing your opinion of the state of the game with facts.
Great news, i love garrisons. They just need to take that idea to the next level. It was very basic and limited in Draenor which made it lose its charm fairly quickly. There is always room for improvement.
I never played WoD, so can somebody explain to me what is hated about this feature?
People dislike garrisons because you were "forced" to do them if you cared AT ALL about efficiency. They tied every aspect of the game to the garrisons so you couldn't ignore them, if again you cared anything about being an efficient player.
To add to that, the garrisons were just management of npcs. Managing your garrisons took time away from actually playing the game. The other major reason why people hated doing them. And a bunch of stupid design decisions by Blizzard too caused even more people to hate them. Like, garrisons being bland. No choice other than a miniscule amount of differing buildings each garrison could have from each other, no racial differences between the garrisons, Pre-set locations for buildings, and the stupidest decision, a garrison for each character instead of server(or account).
apparently a lot of people liked the garrison system. I was not one of them.
Subscriber numbers say a different story. Even the devs admitted their mistakes. Hehe they are even doing everything they can to convince us that garrisons will not be in Legion. Well the alpha testers beg to differ. If somebody wants facts plz check youtube if you are not in the alpha test.
Some additional thoughts on the concerns that have been raised in this and other threads, loosely paraphrased:
Don't you understand that no one likes missions? Why are you keeping any piece of the system?
We understand that many players are unhappy with garrisons, and in particular with the prominence of follower missions in Warlords of Draenor. We're certainly not sitting around, saying to ourselves, "Wow, everyone loves managing followers and doing missions; let's just copy/paste this feature into our next expansion for an easy win!"
We agree that, especially in the long run, the balance of content and rewards between garrison missions and core world content was a big problem in Draenor. Players too often found themselves without much reason to bother with dungeons or outdoor content, possibly logging on to raid or PvP, and otherwise just checking in to collect mission rewards and send followers out on new ones. And after a little while of that, it's awfully easy for it to stop feeling like a proper MMO experience.
We've tried to tackle this problem throughout our design of Legion. We've focused on replayable and varied outdoor world content and dungeon content as the heart and soul of the Legion endgame, and on reward systems that will support the continued relevance of those systems.
But at the same time, there are people who do enjoy the mission minigame, and there are some positive elements, such as a bit of offline progression, and the fun of looking forward to a reward waiting for you when you get home and log in. Not all aspects of the game are intended to appeal to all players - that's part of the challenge of creating a single game that is played by such a diverse audience with different preferences and playstyles. But while garrison followers and missions were a substantial portion of the content in Warlords, Order Hall missions are probably more like 3% of Legion.
I understand that there is a fair amount of cynicism, and there are some who are probably reading this right now and thinking that it's just a bunch of nice-sounding words trying to cover up our sinister plan of mission-table supremacy. But even if we wanted to, we know that we can’t hide anything here. Well before Legion is in anyone's hands, people will be experiencing the system in its entirety in beta, and we'll be judged on that basis.
But there's key player power at the bottom of my Order Hall tech tree, so isn't that gated behind missions?
Actually, no. As I mentioned in my post in the Alpha forums, what players are seeing in Alpha right now lacks context, admittedly because we haven't provided much. The research you can initiate in your Order Hall to unlock various perks, culminating in a strong player-power reward, requires Order Resources. Order Resources are not in any way gained through missions. You gain Order Resources from quest content: from the one-time Order Campaign quest arc, from treasures around the world, and at max level from outdoor world quests. If anything, missions are more likely to serve as an outlet for excess Resources once you have your research needs covered.
The Order Hall campaign immediately has you do missions that take a day to complete. That sounds terrible.
That's good feedback, and definitely the sort of thing we may adjust. Let me try to explain the intent here: The core of the class Order campaigns is epic quest content that is custom to your class. If you're a Death Knight, you might be working to raise a new set of Four Horsemen who are powerful enough to stand against the Legion; as a Mage, you may be investigating a plot that threatens to undo Dalaran from within; and so forth. That's what the Order campaigns are. We start you on these chains during the level-up experience, but they're intended to be a story that unfolds over time, complementing the game's level-up and endgame progression.
In Warlords, when we had the Garrison campaign quests, we presented a new one each week, but there was no real indication where the next step would come from, or how long you would have to wait in order to continue. This time around, we want to avoid having gaps where there's no quest in your log. Having occasional steps where we ask you to run a few missions with long completion times seemed like a more elegant way to do that, allowing us to weave in a bit of storytelling, as opposed to just "hey, come back next week for the next step."
I understand that most of the discussion is based on bits of information that emerge from the Alpha, and I know that it's difficult to truly reassure you when you haven't yet seen the things I'm talking about firsthand. But hopefully trying to share our goals and philosophies, as well as acknowledging past missteps (we hear you - really!), can provide some guidance about where this system is going to end up when it's complete. #1470 10 hours ago
^^^^^^ For Blizzard to respond - at all as people pointed out! - indicates imo a "certain level of "concern". To me this shouts DAMAGE CONTROL. Throw in the "by the end of Q3" release - 23 weeks away - and it also says "this is coming whether you like it or not".
On the forums the thread continues with some gusto; the one on the EU is less busy but the EU forums in general are "unbusy" these days.
A final thought: these posts are from people who are / have stayed subscribed. Maybe everyone who liked garrison content left .... then again.
Why is this news? Ever since the first info about Legion was revealed, I already knew that Order Halls are basically Garrisons 2.0.
Well jokes aside they are not all that similar. Garrisons were an attempt at the Housing System, and they failed miserably, probably the worst housing concept of all time (if you can even call that a housing system). While Order Halls are basically the same thing, just on a bigger scale. I would say it's similar to the Guild Halls, but it's just not even close to that depth, complexity nor size. Just a much cheaper way to get something like it in the game.
Personally I wouldn't get my hopes up for this. I'm certain this will be another huge fail. This expansion is shaping up to be much worse than Draenor, and I thought that's not possible.
When I read about the changes coming in LEGION, I was really excited. However, I have now played/tested the LEGION alpha/beta and feel a little bit off. I really do not see this expansion releasing before nov/dec time.
There is a lot missing, many parts do not work. What got me was that mobs take ages to kill, even with a dps spec. I am not looking for one shot kills, but combat seem incredibly dull now ;(. I am still holding on to the hope that when it all comes together, the changes will prove to be a shot in the arm for WOW.
Comments
As for those claiming this is a deal breaker and they'll quit (or more likely not return) all I can say is...why are you still playing WOW anyways?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When/If WoW drops to 1mil subs, they ll still keep insisting everything is ok.
"Hey man, i play WoW and i love it, so do 1 million subs also"
And of course i dont play WoW anymore, the facebook style gameplay was a deal breaker for me.
But sure guys you are more than welcome to give your money to Warlords 2.0.
But i ll sure as hell complain about the quality of the product.
Although, the hate for garrisons from the alpha testers is so strong that i bet they ll make changes. I still hope!
No, the reason 6 million players left is 2 fold, 1. Content droughts, far too long without any meaningful content patches between expansions and 2. Dumming down of the classes and talent speccing. The rest of the game is essentially still the same with a few tweaks here and there but the soul of the game has gone the wrong way. Based on Legion's item list, it seems as if Blizzard is finally realizing this and addressing it. I hope it works, I still enjoy WoW but definitely want to get that magic back that it had all the way up to the launch of WotLK.
So its not the introduction of garrisons and the absolute desertification of the world. Its not the 100% lobby style gameplay that was introduced. The absolute end of world pvp. The easy mode gameplay. The free epic gear. The LFR mechanics that made the endgame noninteresting for ppl except the most hardcore guilds. The destruction of the professions. The simplified classes.
Rest of the game is still the same you say?
Damn man...are we talking about Warlords of Draenor? Probably i was playing a different WoW.
Not sure what Blizzard can do at this point if they take away system or option end up losing people anyhow. Seem like Blizzard just riding the wave until people move on.
I'll wait...
Don't come for the king!
Witty & Wicked
im out
OP, post some facts please......because right now.....you just sound like Donald Trump......shouting and mixing your opinion of the state of the game with facts.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
To add to that, the garrisons were just management of npcs. Managing your garrisons took time away from actually playing the game. The other major reason why people hated doing them. And a bunch of stupid design decisions by Blizzard too caused even more people to hate them. Like, garrisons being bland. No choice other than a miniscule amount of differing buildings each garrison could have from each other, no racial differences between the garrisons, Pre-set locations for buildings, and the stupidest decision, a garrison for each character instead of server(or account).
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Well the alpha testers beg to differ.
If somebody wants facts plz check youtube if you are not in the alpha test.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20742889828?page=74#1470
Some additional thoughts on the concerns that have been raised in this and other threads, loosely paraphrased:
Don't you understand that no one likes missions? Why are you keeping any piece of the system?
We understand that many players are unhappy with garrisons, and in particular with the prominence of follower missions in Warlords of Draenor. We're certainly not sitting around, saying to ourselves, "Wow, everyone loves managing followers and doing missions; let's just copy/paste this feature into our next expansion for an easy win!"
We agree that, especially in the long run, the balance of content and rewards between garrison missions and core world content was a big problem in Draenor. Players too often found themselves without much reason to bother with dungeons or outdoor content, possibly logging on to raid or PvP, and otherwise just checking in to collect mission rewards and send followers out on new ones. And after a little while of that, it's awfully easy for it to stop feeling like a proper MMO experience.
We've tried to tackle this problem throughout our design of Legion. We've focused on replayable and varied outdoor world content and dungeon content as the heart and soul of the Legion endgame, and on reward systems that will support the continued relevance of those systems.
But at the same time, there are people who do enjoy the mission minigame, and there are some positive elements, such as a bit of offline progression, and the fun of looking forward to a reward waiting for you when you get home and log in. Not all aspects of the game are intended to appeal to all players - that's part of the challenge of creating a single game that is played by such a diverse audience with different preferences and playstyles. But while garrison followers and missions were a substantial portion of the content in Warlords, Order Hall missions are probably more like 3% of Legion.
I understand that there is a fair amount of cynicism, and there are some who are probably reading this right now and thinking that it's just a bunch of nice-sounding words trying to cover up our sinister plan of mission-table supremacy. But even if we wanted to, we know that we can’t hide anything here. Well before Legion is in anyone's hands, people will be experiencing the system in its entirety in beta, and we'll be judged on that basis.
But there's key player power at the bottom of my Order Hall tech tree, so isn't that gated behind missions?
Actually, no. As I mentioned in my post in the Alpha forums, what players are seeing in Alpha right now lacks context, admittedly because we haven't provided much. The research you can initiate in your Order Hall to unlock various perks, culminating in a strong player-power reward, requires Order Resources. Order Resources are not in any way gained through missions. You gain Order Resources from quest content: from the one-time Order Campaign quest arc, from treasures around the world, and at max level from outdoor world quests. If anything, missions are more likely to serve as an outlet for excess Resources once you have your research needs covered.
The Order Hall campaign immediately has you do missions that take a day to complete. That sounds terrible.
That's good feedback, and definitely the sort of thing we may adjust. Let me try to explain the intent here: The core of the class Order campaigns is epic quest content that is custom to your class. If you're a Death Knight, you might be working to raise a new set of Four Horsemen who are powerful enough to stand against the Legion; as a Mage, you may be investigating a plot that threatens to undo Dalaran from within; and so forth. That's what the Order campaigns are. We start you on these chains during the level-up experience, but they're intended to be a story that unfolds over time, complementing the game's level-up and endgame progression.
In Warlords, when we had the Garrison campaign quests, we presented a new one each week, but there was no real indication where the next step would come from, or how long you would have to wait in order to continue. This time around, we want to avoid having gaps where there's no quest in your log. Having occasional steps where we ask you to run a few missions with long completion times seemed like a more elegant way to do that, allowing us to weave in a bit of storytelling, as opposed to just "hey, come back next week for the next step."
I understand that most of the discussion is based on bits of information that emerge from the Alpha, and I know that it's difficult to truly reassure you when you haven't yet seen the things I'm talking about firsthand. But hopefully trying to share our goals and philosophies, as well as acknowledging past missteps (we hear you - really!), can provide some guidance about where this system is going to end up when it's complete.
#1470
10 hours ago
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For Blizzard to respond - at all as people pointed out! - indicates imo a "certain level of "concern". To me this shouts DAMAGE CONTROL. Throw in the "by the end of Q3" release - 23 weeks away - and it also says "this is coming whether you like it or not".
On the forums the thread continues with some gusto; the one on the EU is less busy but the EU forums in general are "unbusy" these days.
A final thought: these posts are from people who are / have stayed subscribed. Maybe everyone who liked garrison content left .... then again.
Well jokes aside they are not all that similar. Garrisons were an attempt at the Housing System, and they failed miserably, probably the worst housing concept of all time (if you can even call that a housing system). While Order Halls are basically the same thing, just on a bigger scale. I would say it's similar to the Guild Halls, but it's just not even close to that depth, complexity nor size. Just a much cheaper way to get something like it in the game.
Personally I wouldn't get my hopes up for this. I'm certain this will be another huge fail. This expansion is shaping up to be much worse than Draenor, and I thought that's not possible.
There is a lot missing, many parts do not work. What got me was that mobs take ages to kill, even with a dps spec. I am not looking for one shot kills, but combat seem incredibly dull now ;(. I am still holding on to the hope that when it all comes together, the changes will prove to be a shot in the arm for WOW.