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New types of classes: Thinking outside the box
Cryomatrix
Member EpicPosts: 3,223
Hi guys,
I posted awhile back how do you guys play games when you have a wife and kid. I managed to carve out time, you just have to wait till everyone sleeps. Nonetheless, I had an idea for a couple of classes in a hypothetical game.
First off, I do not believe in balanced classes. I know that sounds off, I just mean that, I am fine with all classes not being able to solo and some classes that need a group. I truly don't think healers should be able to solo for example . . . anyway.
1) Wizard: Long cast times but super powerful spells. At early levels, the player will have cast times as high as 5-10 seconds but at later levels and close to end game, the cast time can be around 1-2 minutes. This is your proverbial glass cannon. In a raid or boss fight, keep the boss off the wizard or protect the wizard while it casts its spells. The class would be almost impossible to be solo, but when you get to high level, people will be like, so so his a high level wizard, we need him/her. That's the good thing about the idea. You will be in high demand. People will know the few wizards. It is always fun to be a high level (unpopular class).
2) Offensive/defensive augmenter: The class actively boosts one or more PC's with active spells, no buffs, just active augmenting spells. Once again, not able to solo but very effective at high levels.
If i were to create a hypothetical game the classes would be:
1) Sorcerer = classic mage with instantaneous spells . . . glass cannon-lite
*2) Wizard = As above - glass cannon-heavy
3) Ranger = Make sure that it is good at range but sucks close range as it should
4) Melee = 1h vs 2h vs shield, etc make it balanced
5) Smiter = a la diablo 2
6) Paladin = melee + heal + small magic
7) Cleric = melee + more heal
8) Beastmaster = you know pet guy
*9) Offensive/Defensive augmentor = as above
10) Bard type = buffer guy
11) Aura guy = like paladin in diablo 2
12) Thrower guy = using javelins or axes
*13) Priest = Great for individual heals and rez
*14) Bishop = Great for group heals
15) Rogue = melee + glass cannon version
*16) Trapster = traps and stuff
17) Charmer = self explanatory
18) Defender = Somewhat of a tank, but can do area-defense spells
*19) Classless = Each time you level up, you gain a random ability of the classes noted above
* indicates not really a soloing class.
Anyway, i am playing mortal online now sort of, got into it, but when i get addicted to a game and then stop playing for a week until the addiction is broken, i don't want to play anymore. I actually like mortal online, yeah lots of bugs, very unfriendly to new players, but it is actually a pretty good game with the things to do. Anyway, this post was me being bored at work. Sorry for the ramble and yes i'm going to post it anyway.
Cryomatrix
I posted awhile back how do you guys play games when you have a wife and kid. I managed to carve out time, you just have to wait till everyone sleeps. Nonetheless, I had an idea for a couple of classes in a hypothetical game.
First off, I do not believe in balanced classes. I know that sounds off, I just mean that, I am fine with all classes not being able to solo and some classes that need a group. I truly don't think healers should be able to solo for example . . . anyway.
1) Wizard: Long cast times but super powerful spells. At early levels, the player will have cast times as high as 5-10 seconds but at later levels and close to end game, the cast time can be around 1-2 minutes. This is your proverbial glass cannon. In a raid or boss fight, keep the boss off the wizard or protect the wizard while it casts its spells. The class would be almost impossible to be solo, but when you get to high level, people will be like, so so his a high level wizard, we need him/her. That's the good thing about the idea. You will be in high demand. People will know the few wizards. It is always fun to be a high level (unpopular class).
2) Offensive/defensive augmenter: The class actively boosts one or more PC's with active spells, no buffs, just active augmenting spells. Once again, not able to solo but very effective at high levels.
If i were to create a hypothetical game the classes would be:
1) Sorcerer = classic mage with instantaneous spells . . . glass cannon-lite
*2) Wizard = As above - glass cannon-heavy
3) Ranger = Make sure that it is good at range but sucks close range as it should
4) Melee = 1h vs 2h vs shield, etc make it balanced
5) Smiter = a la diablo 2
6) Paladin = melee + heal + small magic
7) Cleric = melee + more heal
8) Beastmaster = you know pet guy
*9) Offensive/Defensive augmentor = as above
10) Bard type = buffer guy
11) Aura guy = like paladin in diablo 2
12) Thrower guy = using javelins or axes
*13) Priest = Great for individual heals and rez
*14) Bishop = Great for group heals
15) Rogue = melee + glass cannon version
*16) Trapster = traps and stuff
17) Charmer = self explanatory
18) Defender = Somewhat of a tank, but can do area-defense spells
*19) Classless = Each time you level up, you gain a random ability of the classes noted above
* indicates not really a soloing class.
Anyway, i am playing mortal online now sort of, got into it, but when i get addicted to a game and then stop playing for a week until the addiction is broken, i don't want to play anymore. I actually like mortal online, yeah lots of bugs, very unfriendly to new players, but it is actually a pretty good game with the things to do. Anyway, this post was me being bored at work. Sorry for the ramble and yes i'm going to post it anyway.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
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Comments
My setting would be a 3 faction war between the Past, the Present and the Future.
Quick, and not much thought out, list.
The Past - High fantasy setting, magic and stuff
Elves - Druid - Plant caster
Gnome - Golem - Animate rock creature / take control of it
Celt - Berserker - fighter, but the more you drink of your brew the more insane you get
Dwarf - Blacksmith - Big hammer, can reinforce armor / sharpen blades. Buffer
The Present - Modern setting, guns and tech with mutations
Scientist - Various alchemist stuff / bombs
Pilot - Drive a small mech-suit
Mutant - Super strength, speed, the more you use the more chance you lose control
Engineer - Exo-suit (Iron man)
The Future - Plague has decimated humans, only mutants / cyborgs / androids survived
Cyborg - Various attachments, blades / guns / tech
Ghost in the Machine - Large beast mode machine, human brain.
Psychic - Mutant with a huge brain, the more power you use the more chance for a backlash
Android - Can be programmed to do various tasks, jack of all trades
The first barrier I run into is thinking of new "pillars" of archetypes. Trinity games have 3 pillars:
Tank
Healer
DPS
Better games add a fourth pillar: Support
I can't really think of any other pillars for archetypes, so this might be the first hurdle. This is based on the assumption that classes are centred around combat. If that assumption is not true, then I guess you'd add Crafter and Social as two other pillars.
From these pillars, we can start breaking down into sub-categories.
Tanks
- Mitigation vs Avoidance
- Single Target vs Multi Target
- Immediate Threat vs Threat Over Time
DPS- Melee vs Ranged
- Burst vs Sustained
- Single vs AoE
Healers- Immediate vs Over Time
- Single or AoE
SupportI'm sure there are plenty more that you guys can think of. It is these fundamental things that really determine how deep the game can get. A lot of MMOs tend to put most of their effort into the presentation of a class, rather than really trying to differentiate how a class plays. As a result, most melee dps feels the same, most ranged dps feels the same, all tanks feel the same etc. Also, leaving out dedicated support classes always makes me think less of an MMO as it severely reduces options in combat.
Abilities that do more than one thing depending on your target can be pretty rare. If ally has 90% of their health casts a buff, otherwise a heal, does different things to allies/enemies(20% speed, or 20% slow), or abilities that just completely changes your target like Zombiefication so healing damages them and negative energy heals them(ally or enemy cast).
FFXIV gunner class had an interesting ability that I really liked. You casted a status effect on an enemy, when that status effect ended it'd reapply some of the damage done in that period. You could do the same thing with CDs(IE takes recast time off every ability used while status was up when it ends). A teleport ability where the target/self ends up where they were when it was casted.
Even summoners are becoming pretty common now days to. I guess you could try to make it unique by giving the summoner the ability to turn the things they called up into held weapons when they pick them up. Could be an interesting Jack of All Trades class.
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Think it should be called BattleSummoner. The ability to dual wield 2 pets at same time that do massive damage. Also, you would be like a weak sorcerer without your pets.
Let me ask a hypothetical question about how you see a typical player approaching the two similar classes of wizard and sorcerer in the above list? Both are described as 'glass-cannon', one heavy and one light. I suspect that playing either class would involve striving to overcome that class restriction (fragile) at multiple levels, and wonder what would motivate players to play a 'light' (presumable damage) version rather than a 'heavy' version of the same class.
On the other hand, I want to be a bishop! I already have the hat.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
How about a class that has actual depression or was moody, but has great potential if you can keep it medicated. Your skills could be the most powerful at times or the worst in the game. I know it sounds weird but why not lol...
Better is a matter of opinion.
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and to be truly outside the box, may be we should talk about the new kind of hybrid MMOs.
Horseback class. Specializes fighting horse back. Weaker on foot and counter class that can dismount.
To introduce a new archetype would be dependent on the game introducing a new facet of gameplay. Perhaps a game has buildable/destructible structures that are heavily involved in it's content? There could be an archetype that centers around that! A Saboteur who can disable enemy buildings, or an Architect that can empower friendly buildings or even place new ones.
I see some MOBA specialists go this route.
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I've not played many classless games, but those I have always went one of 2 ways. Either everyone ended up with a kinda self-sufficient hybrid, or everyone naturally drifted towards a standard role (tank, heals, dps, support). It tended to depend on the content as to which way it went.
Not that I'm complaining, I loved the freedom in SWG and games like Skyrim, however, I find that without classes / roles, it becomes harder to create interesting content (mechanics / strategy wise)
Like Diablo 3, where everyone can dps.
Like Borderlands 1 & 2, with FPS shooting combat & lite RPG elements?
... tons of other ways of getting rid of traditional RPG roles.
Classes are essentially the avatar and/or function or a role(s).
I think just having "outside of the box" classes for the sake of having that not a good idea. The classes you listed are not really outside of the box nor are they unique. I am currently designing my own set of classes and I ask my self these questions when I design...
1. What is the Core Theme of the Class?
a. Does Core Theme make sense via Lore?
b. What role could the Core Theme Provide?
2. Classes Core Mechanic
a. How does the Core Theme translate into the Core Mechanic of the Class?
b. Are there other layers of the Core Theme you could express through the Core Mechanic to enhance the substance and depth of the class?
3. How does the Class Compliment Combat Mechanics?
a. How does the Theme and Core Mechanic interact with the Combat Mechanics?4. Will this class be fun? What type of players will want to play this class?
Those above questions can actually help enhance an interesting fun class that is unique and outside of the box. Sometimes to make a class outside of the box doesn't mean a unique class name but rather the mechanics of the class and the unique play style it can provide.
What I believe makes good fun classes, are classes that are thematic and have an interesting core mechanic that gives the class an immersive unique play style. The classes have to have depth and substance to them. Something lacking in most class design today.
Thanks for the responses. I just figured a wizard class with spells that took up to 5 minutes per se to cast would make it very useful in certain dungeons (of course the damage would be obscene) and you'd have to protect the wizard during the cast.
No one thought the nameless class where it took random skills from each class at leveling was kind of unique. I think it'd be fun. The augmentor classes, i haven't seen something like that in a game where it is not a buff, your skills are activated on a person and you have to keep it activated.
Thanks a bunch,
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
first its not outside of the box, you are using the whole already know archetypes around.
what you need is simple if you want to make a game, what is the tematics? fantasy? steampunk? real world?
what you want on said game? super powers? realistic?
that is the first you need to even consider before anything, becasue taht will be teh base on what class you will put in game, being a solo class or not also means nothing and nowadays any class should solo some things, I would go for the classless and then you pic your skill by training then, like UO or even like SMT: Imagine, with have lvls and the lvl limit the cap of your general skills but only way to raise then is using/training then.
also in this kind of system you would need to consider all skills you need to do and maybe open some hidden skills based on a mix of basic skills, and to raise this hiddens skills you would need to lvl both the basic ones.
Outside the box enough? :P
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