Sponsored content or not, I like this article because I believe in two of these central ideas: 1) Backers are more likely to support bold and innovative ideas than Publishers, and 2) Transparency builds goodwill and trust in the Community.
After following Camelot Unchained as a Backer for over three years, these are important values to me, and I am glad to see others rallying around those same concepts.
But CU didn't show you their financials, source code, or password for their debit card, right? HA! Transparency my ass! :P
That's a joke btw.
Would you be so free with your source code and passwords? For shame. Editing...my shame ... didn't read through your post. apologies.
Not THAT free, you've got to make them work a little. I just make them extremely easy to guess and use the same passwords across multiple accounts
No worries, just trying to have some fun on Friday.
@crazkanuk ; pay to win... so the more you "donate" the more items you get. you can call a donkey a horse but it still smells like shit.
From the Kickstarter webpage for
Pledge $120 or more
About $120 USD
389 backers
BLOODLINE (digital)
• Mount: thoroughbred horse¹ for breeding or travelling • Help flesh out the world and story with access to 3 month game intro - servers will not be wiped • Choose your own custom surname³ • 100 Influence Points (IP) - see chart for options • Digital town guide (PDF) • In-game decorative plaque¹ (exclusive to Kickstarter backers) • Forum Badge - Bloodline
Influence Points (Influence or IP) is our pre-launch currency, used to track the most influential community members who earn IP by recruiting other players, substantial contributions to the community, or Kickstarter funding. IP currency features heavily in the Kickstarter campaign, allowing people to earn IP which can be spent in the IP store prior to the official launch date. Influence provides benefits such as early access, special rewards, and currency to purchase in-game property, titles, and items.
Actually I'm going to stop trying to convince you its pay to win and let you decide for yourself while I look elsewhere. and btw I own Elite Dangerous a kickstarter game.
I personally plan to join army of one of these Kings then to create my guild ask from him place to build our castle instead we will be his Professional Cavalry
There is lot of content behind this pay to win you cry about . Also We player will be able to steal from them kill them .
Kill king 5 times and done perma death if I'm not wrong
Guild will also be able to build villages and maybe even kingdoms .
If this is needed to see this game happen so be it .
Abot Horse and otehr crap well all game nowa days have it for example ESO horse so much tear of pay to win but on release after a month propel were lvling WAR horses with Speed and stamina and trashed that Imperial horse.
I am sick of this gamers community this isn't a gamers community its a crying babys community
One big difference - there is no pay to win in CoE and what may appear to be an early advantage is in fact just a way to further flesh out the game pre launch.
So I'm curious how these Baron/Count/Duke/King tiers work. Are you paying somewhere between $350 and $10k in order to start the game in control of territory ranging from a village to an entire kingdom? I just skimmed the kickstarter page, but if that's the case then it seems extremely p2w. Much more so than any game in recent memory.
Then you also have the $120 tier for 3 month early access. Don't most people complain when games give 3-5 days of early access for their $120 pack? A 3 month EA forces anyone serious about this game to invest an excessive amount of money in order to not fall behind. Idk I mean I get that you need to properly incentivize people to fund your game, but some of these decisions seem sketchy.
Players don't need an army of bean-counters to assess the risk since Jeromy Walsh has graciously taken the time to do that for us.
"For every game you see on store shelves there’s a handful that didn’t make it ..."
So, your investment in a crowd-funded game project has a 1 in 6 chance of resulting in a finished product. As for CoE specifically, there are some intriguing ideas. However, there are other plans in CoE that I wouldn't waste two seconds of development time implementing.
So, while I wish Mr. Walsh, the CoE project, and their backers the best of luck. I'm afraid I won't be among them.
Players don't need an army of bean-counters to assess the risk since Jeromy Walsh has graciously taken the time to do that for us.
"For every game you see on store shelves there’s a handful that didn’t make it ..."
So, your investment in a crowd-funded game project has a 1 in 6 chance of resulting in a finished product. As for CoE specifically, there are some intriguing ideas. However, there are other plans in CoE that I wouldn't waste two seconds of development time implementing.
So, while I wish Mr. Walsh, the CoE project, and their backers the best of luck. I'm afraid I won't be among them.
That's fine, and i appreciate the well wishing. We'll have to see how things go in the future. So far none of the backers have lost anything until they pass that 900K threshold.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
@crazkanuk ; pay to win... so the more you "donate" the more items you get. you can call a donkey a horse but it still smells like shit.
From the Kickstarter webpage for
Pledge $120 or more
About $120 USD
389 backers
BLOODLINE (digital)
• Mount: thoroughbred horse¹ for breeding or travelling • Help flesh out the world and story with access to 3 month game intro - servers will not be wiped • Choose your own custom surname³ • 100 Influence Points (IP) - see chart for options • Digital town guide (PDF) • In-game decorative plaque¹ (exclusive to Kickstarter backers) • Forum Badge - Bloodline
Influence Points (Influence or IP) is our pre-launch currency, used to track the most influential community members who earn IP by recruiting other players, substantial contributions to the community, or Kickstarter funding. IP currency features heavily in the Kickstarter campaign, allowing people to earn IP which can be spent in the IP store prior to the official launch date. Influence provides benefits such as early access, special rewards, and currency to purchase in-game property, titles, and items.
Actually I'm going to stop trying to convince you its pay to win and let you decide for yourself while I look elsewhere. and btw I own Elite Dangerous a kickstarter game.
I'll let you save your breath because I think our definitions of P2W are too far apart to be reconciled.
My idea of P2W is that of selling items in a cash shop which are better than what can be obtained within the game through regular play.
I've heard about every manifestation of the definition from "I'm a social player, so cosmetics are P2W to me." to "Buying any stated gear is P2W because they can advance more quickly."
Fact of the matter, yes fact, is that I can buy any item from the game, generally speaking, from in-game methods or through black or grey market sources. So, really, the only time where P2W is valid is where I am provided a distinct advantage by purchasing items from the cash shop. There are great examples of this in some games. However, we seem to want to dilute the definition these days. Unless I missed something, in which case, I'm sorry, I missed it
I just don't see how the items you highlighted are P2W.
Sponsored content or not, I like this article because I believe in two of these central ideas: 1) Backers are more likely to support bold and innovative ideas than Publishers, and 2) Transparency builds goodwill and trust in the Community.
After following Camelot Unchained as a Backer for over three years, these are important values to me, and I am glad to see others rallying around those same concepts.
But CU didn't show you their financials, source code, or password for their debit card, right? HA! Transparency my ass! :P
That's a joke btw.
Well, I don't know what your standards for Transparency might be, but for my own, CSE has done an excellent job and have gone far beyond my expectations. So, while you might not have enjoyed the goodwill and trust I share with a large community of Backers, that is your loss.
I will just say few words...
1. Cant belive you say pay2win kickstarter , when you didn`t read concept of the game you can get all the gold on server on start and again its not pay2win... i will find you somewhere and kill you and loot everything you got , or you put that in some secret place i will find it and its again my stuffs and how that is pay2win? When i can take that from you and you gived money for that... that is only 1 point but you dont get concept of game at all... and you whine about stuffs...
2. You give money to games that you play 1-7 days and stop playing because thay are boring or you finish tham... and you dont want to back up idea that can open new horizonts in gaming?
3. You can speak whatever you like but you didn`t get again 1 thing from THIS GUY "JEREMY WALSH" that guy maybe care about money like all human`s but belive me when you watch, read his ideas, concepts... he dont make this game only because of us... he make this game because he want to play it... he is dev. but before that he is gamer who played all kind of games and see all stuffs that miss in most of games and he "trying" to make game with all stuffs that is mising and that is only thing that most of us need to back up the project. He will maybe fail becouse of this $$$ world... but we will not die because we payed 1 day or few day work $ in this idea. Hope that this game will come out = that money that we give for this.
END OF STORY!
1st see all aspects than start to hate dont hate because you readed 100 word`s and you think you know something. Go play tetris if you dont like this idea . Peace out and think about it.
PS: Noobody asking you to fund the game w8 till next december 2017 you will come and play this 100% but let the time to show us who is wrong and who is right.... Accepting real life bets 1:5 in you advantage that game will be out if not till end of 2017 atlest +6months after that 100%.
Thomas2006, I can't agree with you more. I wrote this similar response to a like-minded poster on a MassivelyOP.com article:
I support all your views and opinions here. I'm a coder, and I know how long and costly these ventures can be. What you saw wasn't even what people in my circle would even call a prototype. They're what we refer to as a "test scenes". There is nothing viable there, or worthy of being considered a "game" even. There is landscaping that can be easily generated with a few clicks, and fully populated with rocks, trees, grass, and textures in only minutes; see products like Landscape Auto Material (Unreal) and Gaia (Unity3d). Then you see a basic character controller with animations and input button presses to trigger animations. The fighting just shows what appears to be AI or local (peer) networked characters swinging at each other with occasional recoil/hit animations, and nothing is really happening. You don't even see damage of any kind happening, because nothing is coded to that effect. Even the marriage visualization doesn't show the hands properly coupled, you can tell that the characters were crudely posed together from a t-pose or a relaxed t-pose; they didn't even take the time to pose their fingers to make it look like something that should be in-game.
The character creator is on par with something that could be bought from the Unreal or Unity asset store pages, and has no real significant features shown. Then they show 2 animators talking about all this stuff they've done animation-wise, but all you see is free animations assets from various sources, and mobility and sword animations from a provider named Kobold; a well-known animation provider Unreal and Unity marketplaces. The characters look like they could have taken a week to create, and look really nice. That's about the only thing I really enjoyed about their presentation. All I'm seeing, aside from that, is test scenes, 3-5 days worth of coded elements, and maybe a week of level/interior design. They talk about all these building features they have, but you never see them. Instead, you see a transitioning montage of interiors from test scenes; I'm more than certain they weren't built in any persistent environment. But here they are, half way to a million dollars, in just a few days.
I'll never try to tell anyone what to do with there money, but I do feel a sense of frustration when I see someone being openly fooled into investing in something without proper knowledge of what's going on. I feel the same way about games like Shrouds of the Avatar, a game that has made millions in crowdfunding, and is still using 30-100 dollar Unity3D assets for most of their art, which I'm sure people have no idea about. Anyway, sorry for the rant, but I agree with you. I really hope people start doing their research before spending money in the future.
You're ignoring one huge and important difference. If a game fails, the publisher or backers lose money. If a game succeeds, the publisher makes a lot of money, so that having a mix of some successes and some failures can on net be profitable. If a Kickstarter game succeeds, the backers make no profit, but only get the access that they paid for and nothing more. Kickstarter backers don't get the same upside on a successful game as traditional publishers.
Sponsored content or not, I like this article because I believe in two of these central ideas: 1) Backers are more likely to support bold and innovative ideas than Publishers, and 2) Transparency builds goodwill and trust in the Community.
After following Camelot Unchained as a Backer for over three years, these are important values to me, and I am glad to see others rallying around those same concepts.
But CU didn't show you their financials, source code, or password for their debit card, right? HA! Transparency my ass! :P
That's a joke btw.
Well, I don't know what your standards for Transparency might be, but for my own, CSE has done an excellent job and have gone far beyond my expectations. So, while you might not have enjoyed the goodwill and trust I share with a large community of Backers, that is your loss.
No, the transparency is good. I think there is a lot of good stuff going on.
I could give a crap if "a game is too bold" or there is or is not a famous face pushing a game. That is not the problem with crowdfunded games. (Unless of course "too bold" means "the planned scope of your game is way to big for your resources.)
That is not what matters.
What matters is if a company has a realistic development plan for their project and adequate funding / funding streams to get it done.
And with crowdfunding, it is the gamers who "pre-purchased" the game left holding the bag when those plans prove to be not realistic and fail short of funding.
And MMOs take money to make, a lot of it, especially compared to SPG games that have had a number of successes with KS or crowdfunding (Wasteland2, Pillars of Eternity, the several Shadowrun games). It is not about "passion" or "vision" or any of the other buzzwords, unless you have the cash to get through development.
That is my problem with "crowdfunding" MMOs (even though it is really pre-purchasing). And why I won't do it for MMOs.
Quizzical, what you're saying is true. The investor's (backer) rewards should be compensation enough, though. You're also accurate in suggesting that they aren't shareholders, so they don't get anything more financially, however, that's what rewards are supposed to leverage. It's supposed to consider the investors' pledges to be compensated by something of equal value. None of that matters if developers aren't competent enough to finish a game. If EoC gets 2 million dollars, and fail to deliver, not only are people out of a collective amount of 1.6 million dollars (taxed) in investments, they receive nothing; add to that the fact that it brutally scars future crowdfunding ventures that would have otherwise succeeded with the same amount of money.
Personally I think some people are very skilled at creating intense hype over a product, to the point that people impulsively invest in it. Look at it from a realistic perspective right now, and you'll see over half-a-million dollars invested into simply, ideas. What is currently shown is nothing more than single-player test scenes, yet the hype and the promises have encouraged people to pour money into this product. It has happened with games like Embers of Caerus and Greedmonger; games which showed nothing but art and test scenes, and promised so many grand features once money was in. Regardless of their lock of presenting a playable game, the hype and promises convinced people to invest money into absolutely nothing of actual substance.
A friend of mine told me the other day that he has invested in 5 Kickstarters that have concluded unsuccessfully, after successful funding. He later said, "When you commit to investing in a Kickstarter product, you have to invest under the assumption that it will fail. You should never expect a Kickstarter product to succeed and you'll win every time." That's a terrible way to feel about something that so many people put so much money into, but it's the way it has become.
SedrynTyros, unlike you, a majority of people don't like to blindly throw money away. Seeing a quality product, investing in it, and then seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion is one thing. Unknowingly throwing money into something you think is a quality product, based on an illusion, seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion, and saying, "Oh well if millions of dollars are flushed down the toilet,... no big deal", is a completely different stance. However, I respect your opinion and your point-of-view. Thanks for sharing them.
SedrynTyros, unlike you, a majority of people don't like to blindly throw money away. Seeing a quality product, investing in it, and then seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion is one thing. Unknowingly throwing money into something you think is a quality product, based on an illusion, seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion, and saying, "Oh well if millions of dollars are flushed down the toilet,... no big deal", is a completely different stance. However, I respect your opinion and your point-of-view. Thanks for sharing them.
But your entire stance is incredibly unfair. There's no product to evaluate yet; only a plan with some rough sketches. Investing in a detailed plan isn't blindly throwing your money away. And the plans don't get much more detailed than what Soulbound Studios has shown us.
When movie producers pitch a movie to a studio they're not expected to show up with half the movie finished. And the expectation here should be no different, but you imply otherwise.
So, with respect, I don't think your point-of-view does any good whatsoever.
Is there a timeline posted that shows how's the promised features will be worked on and how many resources are planned for them?
I have seen no "detailed plans". All I have seen are storyboards about how cool these features are. They have told you what they want to do but not HOW. That's not a plan.
They are are promising launch in Dec 17. That means the game has to be ready for early entry in Sept. As you say there is "no product to evaluate yet". Yet somehow they are going to go from pre-production to full functional early entry in 16 months? With 2 programmers?
I'd honestly love to see the "detailed plans" that lay out how that happens. If those exist please link them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
SedrynTyros, unlike you, a majority of people don't like to blindly throw money away. Seeing a quality product, investing in it, and then seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion is one thing. Unknowingly throwing money into something you think is a quality product, based on an illusion, seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion, and saying, "Oh well if millions of dollars are flushed down the toilet,... no big deal", is a completely different stance. However, I respect your opinion and your point-of-view. Thanks for sharing them.
But your entire stance is incredibly unfair. There's no product to evaluate yet; only a plan with some rough sketches. Investing in a detailed plan isn't blindly throwing your money away. And the plans don't get much more detailed than what Soulbound Studios has shown us.
When movie producers pitch a movie to a studio they're not expected to show up with half the movie finished. And the expectation here should be no different, but you imply otherwise.
So, with respect, I don't think your point-of-view does any good whatsoever.
Besides what some people are forgetting is that while not a full game, people at PaX east got to try some fighting between 2 people. So they got to see some of the "game" in action: (Link) I started it here because this gets past all the introductions (mostly) and gets right to the action. Do be careful as it does start right off with talking so don't have the volume up real loud.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
SedrynTyros, unlike you, a majority of people don't like to blindly throw money away. Seeing a quality product, investing in it, and then seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion is one thing. Unknowingly throwing money into something you think is a quality product, based on an illusion, seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion, and saying, "Oh well if millions of dollars are flushed down the toilet,... no big deal", is a completely different stance. However, I respect your opinion and your point-of-view. Thanks for sharing them.
But your entire stance is incredibly unfair. There's no product to evaluate yet; only a plan with some rough sketches. Investing in a detailed plan isn't blindly throwing your money away. And the plans don't get much more detailed than what Soulbound Studios has shown us.
When movie producers pitch a movie to a studio they're not expected to show up with half the movie finished. And the expectation here should be no different, but you imply otherwise.
So, with respect, I don't think your point-of-view does any good whatsoever.
Is there a timeline posted that shows how's the promised features will be worked on and how many resources are planned for them?
I have seen no "detailed plans". All I have seen are storyboards about how cool these features are. They have told you what they want to do but not HOW. That's not a plan.
They are are promising launch in Dec 17. That means the game has to be ready for early entry in Sept. As you say there is "no product to evaluate yet". Yet somehow they are going to go from pre-production to full functional early entry in 16 months? With 2 programmers?
I'd honestly love to see the "detailed plans" that lay out how that happens. If those exist please link them.
And this is the Achilles heal of crowdfunding right here; the unreasonable expectation from some that we're to know every detail of how they're going to implement everything they've described in their journals. That's not a realistic expectation. It just isn't. I wouldn't expect them to provide that to me. They've given me enough for me to want to pledge to help them. What they've show me, to me qualifies as a plan for a game. I understand that's not enough for everyone. I understand the skepticism as well.
Using your movie analogy. They came in and described the movie they want to make but obviously the studio would ask for some description of HOW they would do it. As you say "the expectation here should be no different".
So again, if there is some timeline that lays out how they go from "no product to evaluate" pre-production to releasing early entry with all these wonderful never before seen features in 16 months please link it. I'd love to read it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Forgrimm ; A lot of people for sure but not the critics. We didn't even mention it much until now.
I know we are labeled as haters, trolls and my favorite: "negative" But our stance is actually quite simple and neutral:
The listed features can't be achieved with a 2 million dollar budget.
Of course they cant. I addressed that long ago. The kicktstarter is probably multi faceted. One step id to get the game green lit, then start selling things, much like SC has done. Not ships obviously but they will sell somethings. More than likely early access and pre release packs. Let people 'upgrade' their pledge/kickstarter packs to a new higher level for the same or similar perks.
I also suspect that they have other outside investors who wanted to see if the thing garnered enough support. They openly admitted they were looking for investors awhile ago, maybe they got a few of those guys on the hook and they said they would invest if they raised those funds and had people show some interest.
So it looks like a multi goaled kick starter. But it would take 100 million maybe more to even get a rudimentary offering of what they have proposed. So theyre obviously not stopping at 2 million that is just the jump point, just like it has been for every other kickstarter project.
Another concern is Unreal engine isnt the greatest in terms of terraforming or making a 'destructible' world. It has some pretty serious limitations. But it has open coding and allows for easy to implement mods and rewrites so it is a little cheaper to make a halfway decent game.
More important point missed.The publishers or investors,don't invest money to just "get it back"they are looking for profits.Kickstarters NEVER give the backers the same monetary promises as investors or publishers get.
For the umpteenth time,i want shares or some equal form of proper investment,simply telling me i get to play a game is pretty much laughable,not nearly good enough to get my money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
SedrynTyros, unlike you, a majority of people don't like to blindly throw money away. Seeing a quality product, investing in it, and then seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion is one thing. Unknowingly throwing money into something you think is a quality product, based on an illusion, seeing it come to an unfavorable conclusion, and saying, "Oh well if millions of dollars are flushed down the toilet,... no big deal", is a completely different stance. However, I respect your opinion and your point-of-view. Thanks for sharing them.
But your entire stance is incredibly unfair. There's no product to evaluate yet; only a plan with some rough sketches. Investing in a detailed plan isn't blindly throwing your money away. And the plans don't get much more detailed than what Soulbound Studios has shown us.
When movie producers pitch a movie to a studio they're not expected to show up with half the movie finished. And the expectation here should be no different, but you imply otherwise.
So, with respect, I don't think your point-of-view does any good whatsoever.
Is there a timeline posted that shows how's the promised features will be worked on and how many resources are planned for them?
I have seen no "detailed plans". All I have seen are storyboards about how cool these features are. They have told you what they want to do but not HOW. That's not a plan.
They are are promising launch in Dec 17. That means the game has to be ready for early entry in Sept. As you say there is "no product to evaluate yet". Yet somehow they are going to go from pre-production to full functional early entry in 16 months? With 2 programmers?
I'd honestly love to see the "detailed plans" that lay out how that happens. If those exist please link them.
And this is the Achilles heal of crowdfunding right here; the unreasonable expectation from some that we're to know every detail of how they're going to implement everything they've described in their journals. That's not a realistic expectation. It just isn't. I wouldn't expect them to provide that to me. They've given me enough for me to want to pledge to help them. What they've show me, to me qualifies as a plan for a game. I understand that's not enough for everyone. I understand the skepticism as well.
Using your movie analogy. They came in and described the movie they want to make but obviously the studio would ask for some description of HOW they would do it. As you say "the expectation here should be no different".
So again, if there is some timeline that lays out how they go from "no product to evaluate" pre-production to releasing early entry with all these wonderful never before seen features in 16 months please link it. I'd love to read it.
I admit it's not a perfect analogy and you're pointing out why.
Providing a detailed development outline would only open them up to more criticism from people who know a lot less about their project than they do. I completely understand why they wouldn't do that. It won't do any good. It's not going to satisfy people like you and it won't do anything for people like me; I'm already supporting them. So why do it?
The plan will undoubtedly change over time, as they always do. Human nature works against them when they give out information of this nature. People who started with predicting this project will fail will become emotionally invested in that outcome, just as those who want it to succeed. The more detail out there of what's going on under the hood the more you get detractors using that information in their quest to convince everyone of how super right there are about everything, which unfortunately serves only to erode existing support.
Then maybe THEY shouldn't have a paid article on here focused on TRANSPARENCY and saying:
"So backers shouldn’t expect to see technical design documents that could potentially contain patentable information, or inside information about ongoing business deals. But aside from that, we believe it’s fair to ask the hard questions. As for us, as we continue with our Kickstarter we’ll provide the external documentation to show we’ve got a plan. We want backers to know that we’re treating them with the same respect and transparency as we would anyone providing us seed capital. "
The very first thing a person providing seed capital would ask for is to see the timeline/resource plan to make it happen.
Transparency is not saying "Hey look at all these neat ideas we have! But don't look behind the curtain, trust us."
So again... pre-production (as you say, no existing product) to fully functional Early Entry in 16 month? With all these revolutionary game elements and features? With something like 2 programmers?
Show me the plan.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Actually the devs have been working of this for a few years already, have 2 working game engines for the game, and have already invested over 500 thousand of their own money into the game as well as securing other money BEFORE they started the KS campaign. The fact that they have already put their money where their mouths are says a lot about them. Read the Q&A transcripts in the official forum and you'll see that all of them have extensive backgrounds in designing games as well as the backend software needed to run the game.
Comments
Not THAT free, you've got to make them work a little. I just make them extremely easy to guess and use the same passwords across multiple accounts
No worries, just trying to have some fun on Friday.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I personally plan to join army of one of these Kings then to create my guild ask from him place to build our castle instead we will be his Professional Cavalry
There is lot of content behind this pay to win you cry about . Also We player will be able to steal from them kill them .
Kill king 5 times and done perma death if I'm not wrong
Guild will also be able to build villages and maybe even kingdoms .
If this is needed to see this game happen so be it . Abot Horse and otehr crap well all game nowa days have it for example ESO horse so much tear of pay to win but on release after a month propel were lvling WAR horses with Speed and stamina and trashed that Imperial horse. I am sick of this gamers community this isn't a gamers community its a crying babys community
So I'm curious how these Baron/Count/Duke/King tiers work. Are you paying somewhere between $350 and $10k in order to start the game in control of territory ranging from a village to an entire kingdom? I just skimmed the kickstarter page, but if that's the case then it seems extremely p2w. Much more so than any game in recent memory.
Then you also have the $120 tier for 3 month early access. Don't most people complain when games give 3-5 days of early access for their $120 pack? A 3 month EA forces anyone serious about this game to invest an excessive amount of money in order to not fall behind. Idk I mean I get that you need to properly incentivize people to fund your game, but some of these decisions seem sketchy.
"For every game you see on store shelves there’s a handful that didn’t make it ..."
So, your investment in a crowd-funded game project has a 1 in 6 chance of resulting in a finished product. As for CoE specifically, there are some intriguing ideas. However, there are other plans in CoE that I wouldn't waste two seconds of development time implementing.
So, while I wish Mr. Walsh, the CoE project, and their backers the best of luck. I'm afraid I won't be among them.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'll let you save your breath because I think our definitions of P2W are too far apart to be reconciled.
My idea of P2W is that of selling items in a cash shop which are better than what can be obtained within the game through regular play.
I've heard about every manifestation of the definition from "I'm a social player, so cosmetics are P2W to me." to "Buying any stated gear is P2W because they can advance more quickly."
Fact of the matter, yes fact, is that I can buy any item from the game, generally speaking, from in-game methods or through black or grey market sources. So, really, the only time where P2W is valid is where I am provided a distinct advantage by purchasing items from the cash shop. There are great examples of this in some games. However, we seem to want to dilute the definition these days. Unless I missed something, in which case, I'm sorry, I missed it
I just don't see how the items you highlighted are P2W.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Well, I don't know what your standards for Transparency might be, but for my own, CSE has done an excellent job and have gone far beyond my expectations. So, while you might not have enjoyed the goodwill and trust I share with a large community of Backers, that is your loss.
1. Cant belive you say pay2win kickstarter , when you didn`t read concept of the game you can get all the gold on server on start and again its not pay2win... i will find you somewhere and kill you and loot everything you got , or you put that in some secret place i will find it and its again my stuffs and how that is pay2win? When i can take that from you and you gived money for that... that is only 1 point but you dont get concept of game at all... and you whine about stuffs...
2. You give money to games that you play 1-7 days and stop playing because thay are boring or you finish tham... and you dont want to back up idea that can open new horizonts in gaming?
3. You can speak whatever you like but you didn`t get again 1 thing from THIS GUY "JEREMY WALSH" that guy maybe care about money like all human`s but belive me when you watch, read his ideas, concepts... he dont make this game only because of us... he make this game because he want to play it... he is dev. but before that he is gamer who played all kind of games and see all stuffs that miss in most of games and he "trying" to make game with all stuffs that is mising and that is only thing that most of us need to back up the project. He will maybe fail becouse of this $$$ world... but we will not die because we payed 1 day or few day work $ in this idea. Hope that this game will come out = that money that we give for this.
END OF STORY!
1st see all aspects than start to hate dont hate because you readed 100 word`s and you think you know something. Go play tetris if you dont like this idea . Peace out and think about it.
PS: Noobody asking you to fund the game w8 till next december 2017 you will come and play this 100% but let the time to show us who is wrong and who is right.... Accepting real life bets 1:5 in you advantage that game will be out if not till end of 2017 atlest +6months after that 100%.
I support all your views and opinions here. I'm a coder, and I know how long and costly these ventures can be. What you saw wasn't even what people in my circle would even call a prototype. They're what we refer to as a "test scenes". There is nothing viable there, or worthy of being considered a "game" even. There is landscaping that can be easily generated with a few clicks, and fully populated with rocks, trees, grass, and textures in only minutes; see products like Landscape Auto Material (Unreal) and Gaia (Unity3d). Then you see a basic character controller with animations and input button presses to trigger animations. The fighting just shows what appears to be AI or local (peer) networked characters swinging at each other with occasional recoil/hit animations, and nothing is really happening. You don't even see damage of any kind happening, because nothing is coded to that effect. Even the marriage visualization doesn't show the hands properly coupled, you can tell that the characters were crudely posed together from a t-pose or a relaxed t-pose; they didn't even take the time to pose their fingers to make it look like something that should be in-game.
The character creator is on par with something that could be bought from the Unreal or Unity asset store pages, and has no real significant features shown. Then they show 2 animators talking about all this stuff they've done animation-wise, but all you see is free animations assets from various sources, and mobility and sword animations from a provider named Kobold; a well-known animation provider Unreal and Unity marketplaces. The characters look like they could have taken a week to create, and look really nice. That's about the only thing I really enjoyed about their presentation. All I'm seeing, aside from that, is test scenes, 3-5 days worth of coded elements, and maybe a week of level/interior design. They talk about all these building features they have, but you never see them. Instead, you see a transitioning montage of interiors from test scenes; I'm more than certain they weren't built in any persistent environment. But here they are, half way to a million dollars, in just a few days.
I'll never try to tell anyone what to do with there money, but I do feel a sense of frustration when I see someone being openly fooled into investing in something without proper knowledge of what's going on. I feel the same way about games like Shrouds of the Avatar, a game that has made millions in crowdfunding, and is still using 30-100 dollar Unity3D assets for most of their art, which I'm sure people have no idea about. Anyway, sorry for the rant, but I agree with you. I really hope people start doing their research before spending money in the future.
No, the transparency is good. I think there is a lot of good stuff going on.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
That is not what matters.
What matters is if a company has a realistic development plan for their project and adequate funding / funding streams to get it done.
And with crowdfunding, it is the gamers who "pre-purchased" the game left holding the bag when those plans prove to be not realistic and fail short of funding.
And MMOs take money to make, a lot of it, especially compared to SPG games that have had a number of successes with KS or crowdfunding (Wasteland2, Pillars of Eternity, the several Shadowrun games). It is not about "passion" or "vision" or any of the other buzzwords, unless you have the cash to get through development.
That is my problem with "crowdfunding" MMOs (even though it is really pre-purchasing). And why I won't do it for MMOs.
All the risk is on we gamers.
Personally I think some people are very skilled at creating intense hype over a product, to the point that people impulsively invest in it. Look at it from a realistic perspective right now, and you'll see over half-a-million dollars invested into simply, ideas. What is currently shown is nothing more than single-player test scenes, yet the hype and the promises have encouraged people to pour money into this product. It has happened with games like Embers of Caerus and Greedmonger; games which showed nothing but art and test scenes, and promised so many grand features once money was in. Regardless of their lock of presenting a playable game, the hype and promises convinced people to invest money into absolutely nothing of actual substance.
A friend of mine told me the other day that he has invested in 5 Kickstarters that have concluded unsuccessfully, after successful funding. He later said, "When you commit to investing in a Kickstarter product, you have to invest under the assumption that it will fail. You should never expect a Kickstarter product to succeed and you'll win every time." That's a terrible way to feel about something that so many people put so much money into, but it's the way it has become.
Your stomach must get upset a lot.
[youtube]
I have seen no "detailed plans". All I have seen are storyboards about how cool these features are. They have told you what they want to do but not HOW. That's not a plan.
They are are promising launch in Dec 17. That means the game has to be ready for early entry in Sept. As you say there is "no product to evaluate yet". Yet somehow they are going to go from pre-production to full functional early entry in 16 months? With 2 programmers?
I'd honestly love to see the "detailed plans" that lay out how that happens. If those exist please link them.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
A lot of people for sure but not the critics. We didn't even mention it much until now.
I know we are labeled as haters, trolls and my favorite: "negative"
But our stance is actually quite simple and neutral:
The listed features can't be achieved with a 2 million dollar budget.
So again, if there is some timeline that lays out how they go from "no product to evaluate" pre-production to releasing early entry with all these wonderful never before seen features in 16 months please link it. I'd love to read it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Of course they cant. I addressed that long ago. The kicktstarter is probably multi faceted. One step id to get the game green lit, then start selling things, much like SC has done. Not ships obviously but they will sell somethings. More than likely early access and pre release packs. Let people 'upgrade' their pledge/kickstarter packs to a new higher level for the same or similar perks.
I also suspect that they have other outside investors who wanted to see if the thing garnered enough support. They openly admitted they were looking for investors awhile ago, maybe they got a few of those guys on the hook and they said they would invest if they raised those funds and had people show some interest.
So it looks like a multi goaled kick starter. But it would take 100 million maybe more to even get a rudimentary offering of what they have proposed. So theyre obviously not stopping at 2 million that is just the jump point, just like it has been for every other kickstarter project.
Another concern is Unreal engine isnt the greatest in terms of terraforming or making a 'destructible' world. It has some pretty serious limitations. But it has open coding and allows for easy to implement mods and rewrites so it is a little cheaper to make a halfway decent game.
For the umpteenth time,i want shares or some equal form of proper investment,simply telling me i get to play a game is pretty much laughable,not nearly good enough to get my money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"So backers shouldn’t expect to see technical design documents that could potentially contain patentable information, or inside information about ongoing business deals. But aside from that, we believe it’s fair to ask the hard questions.
As for us, as we continue with our Kickstarter we’ll provide the external documentation to show we’ve got a plan. We want backers to know that we’re treating them with the same respect and transparency as we would anyone providing us seed capital. "
The very first thing a person providing seed capital would ask for is to see the timeline/resource plan to make it happen.
Transparency is not saying "Hey look at all these neat ideas we have! But don't look behind the curtain, trust us."
So again... pre-production (as you say, no existing product) to fully functional Early Entry in 16 month? With all these revolutionary game elements and features? With something like 2 programmers?
Show me the plan.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018