Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
MMORPG.COM News: Outside the Box: Gameplay Versatility
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Nathan Knaack, our Monday columnist, is back with a look at the concept of gameplay versatility as it relates to MMORPGs. Every Monday, Nathan offers his unique perspective on some aspect of MMORPG design.
| Why are MMORPGs almost universally based on combat? Aside from a few rare exceptions, the vast majority of games, online and offline, are centered around, or at least focused on, battle. Perhaps it has something to do with games being an escape from reality, which makes sense considering that your average gamer isnt a secret agent, mythical warrior, or space cowboy (despite any costumes worn at conventions), thus they do not encounter life-or-death combat on a daily basis. To further enforce the escapism explanation for video game violence, one could consider the fact that the average gamer isnt having much sex, either, which almost entirely explains the industrys almost disturbing fascination with anatomically exaggerated female characters. If we make the assumption that video games are an escape from reality for predominately 12-25 year old males, its easy to understand why we see so much combat and cleavage. Youd think by now more game development companies would have realized that, as recent studies suggest, a full 40% of the gamer population is female. No wonder theyre not as wildly attracted to FPS and RPG titles as males are. As a male gamer, would you play a game that traded battle and boobs for meaningful relationship conversations and large, strategically-located bulges on all the pants for male avatars? |
To read his full article, click here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Part of the problem is getting beyond the mentality of believing a non-combat character is useless. This was one of the common refrains in Star Wars Galaxies when it was released. Being a dancer or a musician was considered useless and people who went that route were laughed at as complete morons for doing so. And this was for doing something that DID enhance combat ability (mainly of a healing nature before they completely screwed it up).
Part of the successful implementation of such a social dynamic is to make the payoffs worth it and to advertise those payoffs as an alternate route to achieve something. The game I'm working on handles this in a different way, by growing the universe through increased interactions that have very little to do with actual combat, but I'm afraid I don't see a lot of games that are attempting to reward a social aspect of the game, other than getting a leg up on the player economy, or being an aside to a combat role (from the minor such as UO's crafting and gathering communities to the extreme with Star Wars Galaxies political position abilities to run cities). Unfortunately, those both are still very limited in drawing in people because they require a certain amount of tied imposition to a combat situation (like UO) or require lots and lots of previous interaction to gain enough prestige to be able to use any of the political skills (like SWG).
Drawing the people in is what is going to be the biggest problem because they still have to compete against the "warrior" class of gamer who spends most of his time ridiculing those who choose another direction by calling them things like "Carebear" and other such types of insults.
My blog:
http://www.littlesarbonn.com
How about animal husbandry? Suppose there were a skill like this that allowed players to increase chances to breed various beasts. Lets take horses for example. If the game had various types, a player could purchase them and breed them to try to come up with different horse abilities.
Lets say that stats can be mingled for strength, agility, stamina, durability, and mental aptitude. A player could then try to discover variations that make better war horses, plow horses, race horses, and riding horses. Even show horses if you added in a way to breed for coloring.
It might require a combination of skill, discovery chance, and of course the right breeding stock.
It might even be a chance for modifications that is purely random, and one players discovery might not be duplicated by anyone else. Some of these new "breeds" might turn out to be useless, or they might be something really special.
The same system could be used for dogs or any other animal that's breedable.
Once upon a time....
If we are looking at an MMORPG that is a fully rounded alternate reality, one the provides opportunities in areas that are not combat orientated then we are looking at a player base that is unlikely to be concerned about being called a care-bear. The problem in this type of MMORG would not be insult throwing (we are looking at attracting females and over 25 year old players here), but in the 'life rules' that should apply to all MMORGPs.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
In the real world all creatures avoid combat. This is certainly due to the fact that death sucks, and is permanent. In an MMORPG world this is not the case, and is one of the factors that make combat fun. Afterall, in any fantasy, or sci-fi book the hero is generally someone who has a great deal of luck on their side. This is not something easily re-created in an MMORPG (those of you who have played PnP RPGs will know this well, as just when a good dice roll was required to perform a scenario completing feat you could almost guarantee rolling something that left your character lying on the floor looking like a complete idiot), and to compensate for this MMORPGs need to allow individuals to improve their skills to more likely guarantee success, and complete the scenario. This provides the cycle of combat-gain-improvement-combat.
To de-emphasise combat skills social skills need to be emphasised. This means providing real gain for spending time on those skills. For traders this requires a solid economic system, which requires a scarcity of resources, both physical (wood, metal, etc), and social (the total number of individuals capable of providing the service). For the more social motivated, i.e. political, it requires a scarcity of finance (no one ever kept power without spending money), and it requires benefits to holding that power. If game designers can provide a way for individuals to 'create' their own tasks and quests we have a good reason for gaining social power.
In the real world, individuals pay others for their skills, largely due to the fact that they themselves have not had the time to develop those skills (I'd rather be tweeking my PC than plumbing in a new bathroom). In an MMORPG a player crafted item needs to have a level of rarity that befits its price. But, if we are going to consign individuals to hours of repetitive button pressing in order to make that one superb item we had better find a way to make it as interesting as running around killing stuff, after all there's no real danger in the later route as death isn't a problem.
Dark Age of Camelot has, to my mind, come closest to providing a solution. Player crafted equipment always has the edge on loot stuff, and it takes a long time to improve crafting skills (although see my comment above about repetition). Also, PvP combat is dealt with in zones that are set aside from the main play areas, so players can choose whether to participate. Now, if control of these zones provided the means to control raw material output we would have the basis of a solid economic system: the combat orientated players would spend their time gaining, and keeping control of the PvP areas in order to reduce the costs of their equipment. Reduced equipment costs come about by having increased levels of raw materials, thus reducing production costs. Now if we add to this mix some type of 'gatherer' class that makes their money by selling to the crafters we are getting a flow of finances: gatherers pay the fighters for protection, fighters pay the crafters for equipment, crafters pay the gatherers for raw materials.
The next generation of MMORPGs should be looking to provide a much higher degree of interaction for the players with the world they (the designers) have created. A self-sustaining MMORGP would require little input from the designers as the players themselves would create the events that lead to great acts of heroism, or impressive social standing.
"But the Krell forgot one thing. Monsters, John, monsters from the id."
While thats an interesting idea Amaranthar I don't see how its any different from any other production/crafting skill. The important thing would be the existance of interactive horse races or cock fights in which to use your crafted animals.
More mini-games would be great, not as a primary feature like Puzzle Pirates but simply as a diversion. There are even whole games devoted to some of the potential simple additions like card games or cock fights, Monster Rancher is a mildly entertaining game of advancement which goes exactly to the core of what most MMOs are.
As a PvP player what I'm looking for in new games is alternate or superior competitions.
Lead Designer, Islands of War
Warlock L80, WoW Mug'thol
Warden L50, DaoC Percival
EVE Pilot
Well luckily a new powerful MMO is coming down the pike that promises to provide the social alternative to MMO that you (and others) wish for: Vanguard: Saga of Heroes!
This game will have a separate advancement character tract for Adventures, Carfting, and DIPLOMACY!!! Imagine annexing your neighbors by negotiation rather then by protracted sieging that would leave both of you weak to power-hunger player to the South. The possibilites of this approach are formidible if they can really pull it off. We submit a dispute to a neutral binding arbitrator but I have higher oratory stats and <winning smile> skill, so I win. Oh what fun fun!
Been waiting to get into this Beta since September but the list of wouldbe Beta testers is about Horde size now
Heidi
This is something I've been tearing my hair out over..
Currently, other than fighting, my list runs to crafting, researching, socialising, exploration, resource managment, puzzle solving and mini-games. Some of which over lap. It's not enough.
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
-- The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
I'm an over 25 female MMORPG player that loves to explore. What if there was a class of guide that obtained experience getting people from one point to another AVOIDING combat? Perhaps, gaining the experience after a successful 'quest' for another player. This could work if a merchant needed to finish a quest delivering goods outside town. I guess this would also work if the guide owned a boat or vehicle/cart/wagon and charged for passage.
I also long for the opportunity to run an actual pub or inn where you would have to purchase things in town to sell (beer, food) and hire local help, perhaps. Your character would actually have to be online (or your hired help) in order to make money. This would lead to the feel of actually 'living' in the world instead of visiting just when you wanted to hunt. And then, of course you would still have the option to hunt occasionally or even have a separate character for hunting/adventuring.
Just some thoughts..
-Tessa
It would be interesting if a group of devs actually make it good enough to snatch my interest!
I mean, when I play Civ4 and others games, I nearly invariably end up been the pacifist nation around. I suppose there is some room for hoping!
But quite frankly, fighting and earning levels/gears work perfectly for me! It could definitely be something else...I am an achiever. Levels, combats and all other stuff are concepts which are well understood, so making sure the customers, foreign and speaking frenglish, understand the basic.
Levels and fighting are easy to understand, hard to master! Which create replayability, while tradeskills are often eery to understand and easy to master once you figure it out, think of EQ/WoW and those tradeskills are soooo easy to master while been a steep learning curve...fighting in those games is easy to grasp, from the first time you approach Crushbone you understand it...however they are harder to master. Anyway, my opinion.
Non-combats activities would be welcome, but can you make them easy to understand and hard to master, like combat?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'd say the main problem is that the non-combat paths are just too boring, and they typically represent 'work' - something most people try to avoid when playing 'games'.
As cool as it may sound to have a full player-run economy and government, who wants to log on and play a merchant - simply sitting in their shop all day long, hoping for a customer. My guess is very few.
Something needs to be done to encourage these non-combat paths, in an unrealistic way (if you keep it too realistic, it will be mundane, but if you can make it into a 'game', it could be interesting). What that 'something' is - I don't know, but my general ideas would be:
Politican/Government - Give them actual power over their nation. Their game would play more like a RTS, with the ability to create and upgrade buildings, and generally oversee the laws of their land.
Problems: This would basically only work for a single-player, and I can't see it lasting nearly long enough for a MMO.
Crafter/Merchant - Realistic resources, make certain people rely on others (a blacksmith would rely on miners, an alchemist would rely on an herbalist, etc), and create a tier-advancement system (start as an apprentice, under a master. encourage masters to help apprentices in order to gain skill).
Problems: Agian, it seems like a system that would work for a bit, until you essentially maxed your skill and were done with it - something that doesn't work in an MMO.
I'm sure there are ways to make these things worthwhile, I just don't know how.
I think trying to put "levels" into any game is a disaster waiting to happen. I dont like leveled combat and i dont like leveled non-combat. Combat should be complex, and the reason you get better at it is because you understand it more and have practiced alot. To engage is one thing, but to master is another. But combat is also about exploring new moves or counter moves. It is about researching your enemys moves and abilities (gathering intell). There is yet to be a game that has handled this well (Strategy).
Non-combat should be the same. It should be complex. It should give tools to the community to create. For example make it possible for cards to be a game. The cards are themselves an item in the gameword and when used creates a sort of instance that locks the players into "combat". The rules can be made to create any card game possible with a 52 card deck. Or a 12 card deck, who the hell cares just make something fun. How manys times i would have loved for something to do while waiting for the rest of my party memebers to arrive at a dungeon entrance. Whats better than gambling on dice while waiting for your companions to get their butts into gear?
Gambling is a huge area of intrest. Why? Because it involves risk and skill. Risk = excitement. Skill = problem solving.
How do you get people into town to socialise? How about letting them actually own some of those houses? Then they might actually care what goes on inside a town. And who knows if they were actually given the freedom to build what they wanted and design their own towns what culture might develope?
So many games out there are restrictive. This saves rescources i know. But if we did have some creative freedom in the game, developers would never have to worry about "content" or players getting bored.
Crafting is a problem area. Because, just like real life, your never going to make it as exciting as gamling or combat. But you could make it possible for people to specialise in 1 item and make that item very well. You could also make it possible for them to only learn so many different designs of that item. So every player does not have the capacity to make everything in the game. Even if we are tallking about 2 crafters who are both woodworkers. Why not creat group projects. Like a house that needs a mason and a woodworker. Why not MPC builders slower at construction than a PC? So PC builders are in demand, but the proccess isnt too boring. Say that when they log off their character goes to work on that house?
Why not have 2 lives to each character created in the game. Side 1 is the side you control. Side 2 is the NPC Automated side. So if you are the member of a Guild. Then your guild has access to a fixed number of builders/craftspeople all the time. But if you are logged on then you are far more valuable.
That is a great idea, it give the character long term value so even if you have to go away for work etc then your character is helping the guild out.
Nice thinking
By the way Vanguard from what I've seen is not the answer, their depolcay last time I looked was basically combat with a different goal (ie click buttons to counter responces - tell a joke to counter a bad mood - sounds okay written like that but as I understand it its basically a responce based click fest), on top of that the game is looking to be a very combat based game with the focus on end game riads.
Hero's Journey takes a sort of odd look at this one, no so much in game (wish I knew more as theres not much info out there), but if you can prove yourself you could become a GM creating quests, building the world etc - even if this is not in game content it is at least a vent for the creative types.
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Animal Crossing...
Well, you know those extra skills that have been given to certain combat classes... like Trackers (these could be the explorers)...Thief... etc...
Yet another great discussion.
I just played the Auto Assault beta, and while it was a nicely done game, I was completely uninterested in "more of the same". Right away, you see that it is yet another game who's entire economy and in-game social culture is centered on comitting genocide against NPCs.
What if a race can be 'farmed out' into the brink of extinction? Conservational action must be taken if you want to have enough orcs to farm for their belts to turn in for that quest. Otherwise, over farming a species reduces their spawn rate. Its just an idea that wouldn't work as it's only half the solution: the other half being, what does one do besides kill?
Take away destruction, and the next thing you are left with is creation.
Traditional crafting is a start, but in many games, it's not very engaging. IRL, when you put something together, its like doing a puzzle where you have to figure out how to utilize limited resources to develop a tool you have in mind. It's an engaging logic puzzle, and far more interesting than the MMO version where you just collect inredients and do some form of simple combine function on them.
Another issue is that the primary source for craft components directly comes from drops obtained from killing. IRL, you would have another logic puzzle to figure out where to obtain resources, be it from nature, or negotiating it out of the hands of someone who posesses the needed components. I know I generaly dont have to go out onto the street and kill pedestrians in hopes that a new hard drive drops so I can upgrade my computer
(fun as that sounds, and all)
And my final issue is that crafting should be taken to the next level: Construction. What if stone blocks could be pulled from a quarry, their transport to a job site arranged, and a stronghold be built. It would be a large, cooperative crafting project, requiring several players in posession of varied specialized skills (planners, framers, masons, interior decorators). This sort of activity would also give players the opportunity to work together to change the face of the world they play in, adding to it buildings, monuments, paintings and statues of in-game avatars, laying down roads, civic engineering, or just a private hut set away in the woods near a serene stream that yields the biggest salmon during spawning season.
http://erickveil.com/
As many others have mentioned, very few MMORPG worlds meet all our expectations. Some of us have fewer expectations than others, and many of us are left with a great hunger. Perhaps it's good that MMORPs aren't realistic in all expectations. Many, myself included, would be tempted not to leave them.
But for the sake of expressing what we look for in an MMORPG is more RPG. It's all very well to say that those characters who want to can do so, but when the world around me is so static - I begin to feel that I am mearly on stage. More research and development is needed into basic huerestics and perhaps even AI. More resources need to be centered on creating actual stories that involve the entire environment. NPCs, buildings, weather, natural disasters, etc. Also, other game mechanisms must be refined to the point of mimicing life.
Animals and sentients:
* Personalities, patterns, behaviors, reactions to stimuli.
Plants and other Natural Resources:
* Plants should be broken down to basic components (i.e. Trees have bark, pulp, sap, leaves, nuts, berries, etc) and each component has specific unique properties.
* Animals should be broken down to basic components (i.e. bones, meat, tendons, organs, etc.) and each be either digestable or usable (think Native American or Indigenous ingenuity) and each part have specific unique properties.
* Minerals should be be recoverable via realistic methods (i.e. drilling, mining, melting of ores, refinement, etc)
Refined Materials:
* should be moldable, bendable, cutable, and be able to have shapes assigned.
* every element or material has it's own unique properties based on scientific principles
* spoilage and storage properties should be realistic.
Crafting:
* Items should have durability based on materials that went into their construction. A sword sitting on a wall mount should last 500 years, a sword used occassionally should last 100 years, a sword used everyday should last 20, a sword used against an acid spitting creature might last till the end of the battle.
* Time to craft, skill in crafting, and quality/performance of crafted item should be based on repetition. Quality and Performance should be for the most part unknown to crafter and purchaser unless experimented with.
* Experimentation should result in better than average quality, new and unique functions, or breakthrough development.
* Skilled craftsman should be able to produce custome function, features, and appearance. Not everyone's car, sword, or spaceship should look exactly the same.
Fighting:
* Abilities, movements, weapons, etc should be combinable into unique attack. Many games have macros, stanzas, or other similar ability to customize. Make this easier to do and more versatile
* Should be chance for fumble or blunder of some sort producing results like weapon dropped, broken or lost.
* Likewise, should be a chance for a killing blow but not intentionally reproducable (i.e. predictable combos.)
* dives, rolls, jumps should be usable in combat
* No character, npc, or monster should at any time be essentially invulnerable. Even armor that is impervious should leave the char, npc, monster vulnerable to kinetic damage.
* combat should have chance of leaving, scars, brusies, or wounds that will just take time to heal. (Imagine a char walking into a medical facility or temple with a black eye, bloody nose, gashes, etc rather than just a depleted HAM bar)
Housing:
* Let builders/architects actually design buildings. Player cities should look as unique as the city population, not look like a 20th century housing development.
* roads (give us damn roads that should effect travel time based on materials used)
* Wiring, sensors, terminals, fireplace, hearth, basements, laboratories, studies, barns, etc. (all functioning)
More stuff along these lines....if there are crafters don't want to put this effort into the game then they can make generics and robots / enchantments to automate the processes at a lower but sufficient quality.
A mixed economy player and game controlled/influenced.
Political/Societal events that are prevented, changed, or guanteed based on player objectives.
I could go on for ever but have to each lunch and get to the dishes sooner or later!
Nathan put words to many of my thoughts and desires for MMOG's. I agree that the games need to be constructed in the way that Nathan suggests where players are the shapers and builders of the the world and where players are dependant on one another for buying, selling, defending etc. Seems we would be more likely to respect our fellow players even if our gameplay were totally different than theirs knowing we needed them and their services at some point.
tessa wrote:
I totally agree and have long hoped to find this in a game. Crafting, building etc are a lot more meaningful and enjoyable knowing the end product will actually be needed and purchased.
While reading Nathan's article it occurred to me that perhaps those who want to be involved in combat could join the military. Why not give the opportunity to sign up, serve, and re-inlist or become a civillian again. Then when one is tired of that they could sign up again. This would give anyone who wanted a taste of combat or a steady diet of fighting, the opportunity, without being tied into one course of action. After all isn't that more like real life? We enlist, serve and then get out or make it a career.
As always, I enjoyed Nathan's thought provoking article.
I agree with many of the points made in the article. Though it's quite far off from release, the game 'Trials of Ascension' appears to be focused exactly on the concept of community building and character/gameplay diversity. I won't go too much into the specifics as the game is still in early Alpha and anything they've said so far could change anyway.
Official site - http://www.shadowpool.com/
Fan run Developer quote database - http://trialsofascension.net/cgi-bin/dbman/db.cgi?db=toa&uid=default&view_search=1
Fan site that compiles info from the devs into easily viewable sections - http://www.luciaslibrary.com/
Though I have my own personal doubts and reservations about what the game will actually be able to pull off by release, I'm still hopeful about a developer being seriously devoted towards expanding the genre in ways similar to those expressed in the article. The heavy focus on both crafting and combat definately intrigues me. Settlements are planned on being central hubs for player interaction and mutual safety.
Now for the scary parts - It's open PvP and after 100 deaths, Perma Death. The last things unfortunately will relegate the game to a smaller, niche market unless they pull off their Justice system flawlessly. However they are definately forging into new territory with these incredibly controversial features... and they certainly do add to players wanting/needing to stick closely together in settlements for safety.
Anyway... just wanted to toss in some info here about a game developer that IS trying to push into new realms of gameplay. Whether they can pull it off or not, only time will tell... it's all speculation and feature plans until we see something more conrete.
Resok
I whant power!!!
And not the power of a stong swards arm... I want to bee te one how sends my wariors to lay segs to my enemis castel or the ganster lord how sends out his thuggs to extort monny from the local shop oners. And I want to do this without engaging in combat. I thing MMORPG:s need a beter system for political power and player driven story bilding.
"As a male gamer, would you play a game that traded battle and boobs for meaningful relationship conversations and large, strategically-located bulges on all the pants for male avatars? "
Boobs dont compare to pant bulges, imo. The equivalent of big boobs for guys is big muscles and most male chars, in any game really, are muscle bound. So the equality is already there.
Many good points and opinions, but one thing noticable is that different people want different things from there entertainment. Trying to combine everyones wants in the same game so that everyone can play the same game, would be kind of like locking christians and satanists in the same room and saying 'have fun guys', it just won't turn out well.
Have your videogames girls, go for your life with the bulges and relationship lovey dovey whatever, just put it plainly on the front of the box so I know what not to buy, and also let me have my cameltoe's and blow head off whatever.
That's an excellent idea, Rikkor. The part about putting it on the front of the box. Maybe some kind of a Diversity Rating, to show if the game is designed for the narrow minded or those who want a more socially diverse world to play in.
Once upon a time....
Well, the difference is that the system I proposed for animal husbandry allows for a game to have things like horse racing that mean more. I mean, what good is a horse race where all the horses are exactly alike? And think about what it means to actually make a new breed. It's much more than just breeding only one animal, and you also can have weeknesses that need to be bread out. It might take a while to make a war horse that's faster, more durable, and meaner than the normal horse. The whole aspect of breeding includes finding other animals that other people own to use as stock. It's not you're normal tame them and sell them system.
BTW, I completely agree about diversions. It's just plain fun, and adds a whole new level of entertainment.
I agree about PvP too. I'd like to see some sort of system that involves choices for special attacks and defensive stances/moves. Where you can watch your opponent and see what kinds of attacks he knows and uses, and counter them if you have the skill or knowledge, or use that to draw them into a mistake that you can counter.
Once upon a time....
Once upon a time....