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So how does someone become carebear?
Luzario
Member Posts: 73
So how does someone become carebear?
I was hoping some of you guys could explain to me how you've come to be carebear. Why is it that you enjoy low controversey MMORPGs with no penalties? Why you enjoy point rewards in PVP instead of a players loot?
Why is it that you are carebear?
How did you become one? Did someone grief you and you just couldnt' fight back? What was it? Did someone just keep outsmarting you over & over again?
Luzario
Comments
Well the carebear terminolgy was created by the hardcore pvp players, I dont see anything wrong being a carebear. I may be getting off the subject at hand but, like the old saying goes, different strokes for different folks.
Its just a stereotype created by players that played FPS games which later crossed over to the mmorpgs thru time at least thru my recollection of timesince the old C= Commodore 64 Days.
just my 2 cents..
In any FPS game you cannot be a carebear, however, mmorpgs your given a choice.
How did you become an immature l337 d00d? Where you beat up a lot as a kid? Did your parents ignore you? Do members of the opposite sex react to you like you're some kind of disease? Just what inadequacy prompted you to put all of you're self worth into a video game? What is it that keeps you from seeing just how totally pathetic that is?
I like to compete with other people. I don't have to take their lunch money in order to feel good about winning.
Luzario, you're not in game right now. There's no need to taunt.
Is it just that you're physically too little in real life to be the bully on the playground? That's really what you're agression is all about, right? You wanted so bad to be physically dominant, but those spaghetti arms just never cut it.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
I don't understand where your thinking comes from. I compare everything to hollywood movies, the drama between good & evil and such.
I'm not a l337 d00d :P Although if a situation arised where being a l337 d00d would piss off my in game enemy by all means let the d00d speak commence.
Luzario
Luzario,
It is with great distress that I must inform you that you can't become a carebear, you are born a carebear! Sorry, no wolf admission! Nope, don't even try, it will only hurt your feelings.
Ano
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Carebear used to be a term that meant someone who avoided PvP at all costs. Nowadays, people throw the term around like it means "I don't agree with you."
Hardcore PvP'ers have their hardcore PvP games to go play. However, they instead play non-hardcore PvP games and then complain that the PvP is not hardcore enough and call everyone that doesn't want to PvP with them on the spot carebears, even if it's obvious that the other person will lose.
It's like walking into Toys R' Us and complaining that they don't sell adult toys.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Sounds like that happend to you moreso than anyone else.
I was actually quite popular in school. I'm good looking and I am quite popular in college.
If I don't get rewards for killing someone what is the point? I like to kill ppl because they are a challenge and I like to stalk them, play w/ them a bit and murder them. Be it for good or evil, I don't really care. Mobs bore the living shit out of me. They do the same thing over and over and over, never deviating... if they do it's only a slight bit of a set of actions that they play over and over and over. Where as a player, you don't know if he can kick your ass, if he will stay and fight, run away, how he's going ot go about trying to kill you before you kill him.... you just don't know. You can get a general idea of how most ppl act, but nobody acts exactly the same like mobs. But if I beat him, I want a trophey or I want to get more powerful just like ppl want a trophey for killing a mob.
But........ I do see where you have a point. I'm also not one of those who go around killing ppl 20lvls lower than me. As I said above, I like a challenge.
A Work in Progress.
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Congrats on being attractive and popular.
You know, you could...not...kill people.
At least you're not a ganker and only kill people when it's a level playing field. When it comes to PVPers however, I think youre the minority.
Lemme explain something. "Carebears" don't exist. They are a figment of the hardcore PvP player's imagination. They are a scapegoat for their feeling of loss that MMO's have gone in a direction that doesn't coincide with what they want. MMO's are going in this direction not because of "Carebears", but because a small % of "Hardcore PvP" players are not mature enough to play nicely with the rest of the human race, and feel the need to ruin the game for the rest of the people paying the same price, to play the same game. I'm not pointing finger at the guys who are for PvP and rewards for it, I'm one of those guys. I AM directly pointing my finger at the guys out there bitching cause they can't gank noobs and take their stuff whenever they want with no consequences. If that makes me a "Carebear" then so be it. Know what that makes you? Obsolete. MMO devs don't care about you.
The Millenium Lee
That's where I differ from other PVPers as well.
I WANT consequences when I do something evil. But, I also want a way to avoid having to face consequences.
Here is what got me into MMOs in the first place:
I started out playing Dransik in Beta. When it was released it became Ashen Empires. I forget the reason I quit playing, I think I quit playing when they introduced magic, because their magic system was just ghey... but anyway that's not the point.
When I was playing Dransik there were many ways to lvl. I actually leveled up by farming because it was much easier and faster than killing mobs. This is something I haven't seen in any MMO yet. My Axe skill (my primary weapon) was quite crappy, but I usually got that up pretty quick by doing quests and alotting all my skill points pool into Axes.
At the stage I played Dransik the world was quite small. It only had the smaller island and "Mainland" wasn't introduced. (that's another reason I quit because I convinced the Devs to add Mainland when they did and I ended up hating it because it was big open and dead) On this smaller island one of the best places to find loot and level up your combat skills was called the "Orc Fort" most ppl in the higher lvls went there to get goodies and stuff.. usually alone.
Dransik at this time also had a system where if NOBODY saw you kill or hit somoene then you wouldn't lose alignment and become evil. Which is really quite realisitic because... If a tree falls in the forest but there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound? And if it were real life, the person wouldn't respawn so who the hell is he going to tell that I killed him?
What I would do is I had a group of 3 - 4 ppl who I controlled and we would find a victim. We would signal to the others we were about to kill him by giving him a rose (a very RARE item at the time). When we offered the rose the other 2 or 3 would run off to the exits far out of site. The PVPer would switch his weapons to the very fast Stilleto, poison it and get as much of the poison into the victim as he could. The victim would run away and by the time that he got to the exists he would drop dead. When someone died in Dransik they would drop their entire backpack and have a 50/50 chance of losing 1 random piece of equipment.
Another part of Dransik's alignment system was if you looted a corpse in the first 2 stages of decay then you would also lose alignment whether anyone saw you or not. But the Orc Fort was very far away from where the person usually dropped dead. If the person would happen to make it back to his body before it hit the 3rd stage of decay one of the team members would "take one for the team" and kill him again. He would usually get his stuff but he wouldn't have time to re-equip the item he lost so it would stay in his backpack and drop again when he died. Usually a player wouldn't come back after they lost 2 items so the loot was ours for the taking at minimal if any alignment loss.
Since I was the leader I would NEVER have to "take one for the team" and stayed the highest stage of alignment called "Divine". (Alignment went: Criminal-Gray, Red to Bright Green, Divine-White.. which you could see at the player's name) Divine players could buy things from shops extremely cheap and I would usually buy things for those who had lost alignment in battle. I was so extremely Divine if by chance I hit the person where someone saw, I wouldn't even lose my divinity.
Now, if you don't think something like this would be fun... then that is MY definition of a carebear. This was by far the most fun I've ever had in any game in my entire life. It may have been ganking, but the person could easily have carried antidotes and kicked my ass because they were generally a higher lvl than me. Or they could have easily escaped... but they usually freaked out since we were the only organised crime in the game at the time.
In the end. Word got around and we had an organised group of 15-20 ppl come after us and kill the living hell out of us taking everyone of our very very expensive peices of equipment. Even that was really fun. I was laughing the whole time.
I may be a ganker... Because I'm really good at killing ppl in RPGs, I suck horribly at FPSs. I lack the precision of being to aim w/ a mouse (I'm actually shoot Expert everytime IRL w/ my M16).
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Okay, my last post WAS harsh (just a tiny bit). However, that is really how I feel about all these FFA, Full loot, Pro-Pk, morons that just love starting flame wars over this shit. They're compensating. They know it. We know it. All God's childuns know it.
Maybe it's just that I have a very different view of PvP. I came from the Air Warrior school of PvP. This game fetured huge (for that time anyway) team games that could last several hours. The winners got nothing other than bragging rights over the losers. I stuck with the flight sim genre up until it began to die out commercially, which was a few years after FPS games took over. I went on to FPS, Tactical FPS, RTS, and traditional turn-based wargames. The one thing that they all had in common was that the winner gained nothing other than reputation within the game's community, and the experience that came with playing. That's real, personal experience, not some stat tacked onto to a 3D model / action figure. I don't take MMORPGs seriously as a platform for PvP. They have no balance and the emphasis on levels and loot handicaps IN FAVOR OF PLAYERS THAT HAVE PUT IN MORE TIME which is totally ass backward for a game that is supposed to be competitive in nature. In fact, the player doesn't even have to be more skillful, they just need to have spent more time farming mobs. Think hard on that. Let it soak in and consider, honestly, why the PvPers outside the MMORPG genre laugh at you. I see PvP in the same way that samuri saw the martial arts. Pkers see PvP in the same way that the vikings saw pillaging. To each their own.
Not all MMORPGs are like that however. Currently, I'm doing an 8 hour trial of Vendetta Online and having a blast. It's like someone resurected Descent Freespace just for me!! The population is way low right now so you don't have to worry too much about being ganked, and it only took me about 2 hours to get the licenses for a fairly decent fighter. The money is also easy enough to get that you can by a new ship, outfitted exactly like your old ship, quickly and be right back in the frey in no time. Did I mention that the combat was twitch?
Again, I play to improve my skills as a player. I don't play for fabulous prizes. TBH, would you worry so much about getting items from other players if those items didn't give an advantage? If, for instance, swords only differed in their weight, speed, and handedness (one or two handed), but gave no bonus to hit, would you really care that you just robbed one off of someone? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Responses with lost attributions...
Y'know, as much as I like to keep the pvp in the game... for most mmorpgs that statement of yours is only true if one of you sucks. There is usually a limited amount of effective plays; your opponent is going to either take one of them, or he's going to do something ineffective.
If you know his build, it's not that hard to figure out what he's going to do. Unless one of you sucks.
(Currently playing EVE, where I'll admit that I do suck.)
Y'know, not being exactly straight myself I'm wondering if I should be taking offence at being obliquely compared to something that (presumably) was a game-ruining implementation...
I hope you meant reputation, or social status or something. Because 'alignment' as it's traditionally used (the tradition being D&D) has nothing to do with whether or not you're caught. It represents how you (or more accurately, your character) would answer specific moral questions. And if your answer to "wealth merchant walks by, what do you do?" is "I kill him and take his gold," you are evil. Regardless of who sees you.
First, I agree that the weight that levels and loot play on the outcome is excessive in most modern games. That's probably part of why many of the pro-PvP squad want a skill-oriented advancement system instead - they tend to be much flatter and more diverse. That is, the top level characters can do more things, but they don't have a noticable edge in any one field against a mid-range character.
Gear is somewhat self-balancing in a full-loot system, though. You take your UberSword into the fight, it gives you an edge against someone using regular gear... but it also gives you that much more to lose. Obviously if there's no looting (or other way to lose it) you're a fool not to use it; if there is, you have to consider the risk vs the advantage you get from it. Prior to the existence of bless deeds, most PvP in UO was done with GM equipment for just that reason... making a generally balanced field in that respect.
In a system like that, character stats give you a bit of an edge - but far less of one than simply knowing how the system works and being able to implement that knowledge. A mid-range character who's focused on one "Discipline" or build will own a guy who's topped off his stats but doesn't use them efficiently, and hold his own against one who's mastered several "disciplines."
I must ask (again) then: would you even be capable of recognizing the skills involved in a turn-based strategy game, or how said skills would compare to those used in a skill-based MMORPG?
Or would you just dismiss them as non-skills, being as they are very much non-twitch?
Hell yes. Moreso if weapons suffer genuine wear, but even if they don't: that's one less sword I have to buy, and one more he has to buy. It may not give me a tangible battle in any single fight, but over the long term - which is, again, what really differentiates an MMORPG from an FPS or RTS game - it adds up.
I'm a carebear because pvp in an RPG enviroment doesn't intrest me in the slightest. I'm too busy doing other things.
I play completely different games for PvP.
My preferred gamestyle however is co-operative.
And this is why.
When I play games I like to play with my friends. I like to team up with and all play the same game together. I noticed quite early on my PvP gaming that not all the friends I play with were of a similar skill level to me. In a PvP game I wish to play with people of a similar ability to me, both as team mates and as competitors.
Killing noobs is unsatisifying and gradually degrades my game. Getting spawn raped by the uberlord of darkness every 3 seconds is also no fun.
This precludes playing with my friends. If just one dies in the first 30 seconds, he must sit there bored for half an hour until the rest finish, only for it to happen again at the start of the next combat.
After 2 rounds he is bored witless and want's to play something different. Game over for us all.
In a co-op game the team works at the speed of the slowest member and players without the experience or motor skills to be true ninja's can be supported and kept alive by the more experienced proficient members. This is actually a very challenging role to take on an can give even the most advanced players a challenge and a half.
For a while I was very into online pvp and leagues and all the rest. But after a while I realised that there were just too many people with I played with online who I didn't like. The officious clan types, the absolutely must win at all costs, the smacktalkers, the cheat police, the people who couldn't enjoy themselves unless they were "rapin' noobs" and only laughed if it was at someone elses expense.
These aren't the types of people I wish to share my free time with. Sacrificing the regular adrenlin rush/heart in your mouth moments of pvp to ditch these twits was an acceptable compromise.
Pvp is a wanker magnet.
The race doesn't always go to the swiftest, nor the battle to the strongest, but that's the way to bet.
You need a tatoo on your stomach and you need some magic, Your not a carebear unless you can do the Carebear Stare
I remember the Care bear stare! LOL .. Was some type of energy, shooting from
there chest I think?
Kaos&Light wrote:
I must ask (again) then: would you even be capable of recognizing the skills involved in a turn-based strategy game, or how said skills would compare to those used in a skill-based MMORPG?
I do, in fact, recognize strategic and tatical skill in RTS and TBS games. Having said that, UO was no Civ 4. Aside from MMORPGs being totally different genres than TBS and RTS games, there are other less obvious differences between MMORPG combat and TBS / RTS combat.
1) All players start on turn one. In TBS / RTS games, players all begin at the same time. Imagine joining a game of Heroes of Might and Magic on turn 12. Could you catch up and win? Maybe you could. But it's far more likely that you would be too far behind the other players to catch up and win. If you start an MMO at launch and I start with a free trial 6 months to a year later, who has the advantage?
2) limited movement. In TBS and RTS games, players control a certain amount of in-game real estate. The units that they make can only go so far, so fast. If I'm far enough away from you, you won't be able to touch me until I'm warned of your approach and prepared. In MMORPGs, you go anywhere equal to or less than your level allows. If I'm a beginning player, their is nothing keeping a person at the level cap from hanging out near my respawn point and kicking my ass over and over again. Given the lack of real life consequence, this is a very common scenario with FFA PvP games.
3) every strategy has a counter strategy and therefore no strategy ever completely dominates. This is only true of "good" strategy" games. In an MMORPG, strategy is minimal. You point, you click, you watch, you quaf a health potion when your HP gets low, you watch some more, you spam your most damaging skill, and eventually you or the other player drops. Even Advance Wars has more interaction than that. If you're much higher in level than your opponent, you only have to point, click and watch. GW has a pretty balanced skill set, and players have yet to find a truely broken build. Unfortunately, GW isn't an MMO, so it's not a very good example. UO could have been good, but zerging and stealth neutralized that potential.
Basically, FFA PvP in an MMORPG has nothing to do with "challenge" or "skill" and everything to do with living out your need to victimize those less powerfull than you. The only reason I can see for this kind of behavior is the feeling of helplessness and powerlessness in RL. This is the reason that most people assume that Pro-PK MMORPG players are males, 18 and under. Seriously, if you wanted a stratgic challenge, and you were really as smart as you think you are, you'd be just as happy playing chess on yahoo. If you want a prize, you could probably find an online chess tournament that paid cash prizes. But that's not really what you're about now, is it?
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
I tell you what.
Go read some interviews of the Friends and Family of Jeffrey Dahmer. They say that he was a little messed up, but not a bad person. Everyone thought he was a great person. Hell, the cops even returned one of his victims to his house which he later murdered and ate.
My Point Is. Who was around to tell everyone how Evil Dahmer was? Nobody. They were dead. Same thing applies to games or at least it should.
A Work in Progress.
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If some people here had a few IQ points they really wouldn't care what the hell other people do, as far as im concerned your making a load of arguments over a LITTLE.FICTIONAL.GAME
Why make all this fuss over some stupid MMO? Why be stupid enough to make a post about, even though they annoy the hell out of everyone, and just make you look like a whiner? It's all choice, now im gonna put this in bold, easily read letters, but not in all caps of course:
Carebear and Hardcore are fictional statuses, there are no carebear or hardcore players.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Don't like it? Go away. I fail to see the reason for you even coming to this site.
A Work in Progress.
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Don't like it? Go away. I fail to see the reason for you even coming to this site.
Your response is so incredibly abysmal that it makes me lose further faith in humanity. It's a GAME, something made to entertain. Glad to see you have eyes, I know this is mmorpg.com, but people discuss an MMO, not bash on other people for how they play.
And I fail to see the reason that you did not see this difference.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.