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Who's responsable, Casuals or Developers

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
edited June 2016 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

If you had only two choices and had to pick one.  Who's responsible Casuals or Developers ?

We had an influx of easy mmos where being social is not needed.  Games that have 30 days of content if played a lot.  Games that you level extremely easy and the play is not hard at all.........For some this may not even be a bad thing. 

Who decides ?

- Some could say developers would like to simply get a game out the door and make money.

- Some would say developers are giving players what they ask for.


I'll not give my opinion yet to not sway the poll. 

Comments

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    .....I do not think there can be anyone seriously think it is developer's doing.


    Silly poll.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    Also those two are not OR, instead of AND... if devs giving players what they want, they will make money (or if they want money, they give the players what they want).

    I'm a huge supporter of artistic integrity (loved to mock the whiners after ME3 for example :lol: ), but no coincidence you see a lot of sequels and clones etc. on the market, and can only find original ideas at indies or in "love projects". Fine by me, I love the indie scene.

    But if a dev wants to make some real money, they have to consider the market, and like it or not, the "casuals" (a wrong term from you, imo, but whatever) are driving the market currently.
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    I think you're confused.

    Developers are almost always subject to the investors - and even the most successful developers have an obligation to make money for the publisher.

    That doesn't mean they don't have a responsibility for their work - but if we're talking about a big-budget game, then developing is like working from a creative jail.

    So, there's no easy answer here.

    Who's responsible for the world revolving around profit? I think it's a shared responsibility. If you're not actively working against that - then you're also responsible.

    Can we blame suits (investors and publishers) for wanting to earn money? Well, we can if we can blame everyone who goes to work for the money.

    I know it's hard, but there's no way to place blame on one part of the equation and ignore the rest - if you want to get at the truth.

    You really have to look at every single game and you have to know the exact background for how it came into being, from the moment of the first idea all the way to release and beyond.

    Sometimes, the developers themselves are focused on the money - and they do what they can to maximise profit. Sometimes, developers want to focus entirely on art and design - but don't have financial support.

    Any consumer who knowingly supports a game with his money - must be held responsible for the success of that game, along with everyone else.

    Conclusively, 99.x% of all consumers, publishers and developers hold some of the responsibility - and we'll never get close to a fair distribution of blame.


  • BeowulfsamBeowulfsam Member UncommonPosts: 145
    edited June 2016
    Option for both perhaps? @Gdemami Well, devs are at fault too. Making shit games, which then make losses which in turn forces publishers to go the "safe" route. Devs also maximise the input/profit. They focus on F2P stuff and not the quality of the game. Or they focus on whales (which is a small percentage of players) to the detriment of others. Hm, there was a nice vid somewhere of some dude having a presentation about Chinese browser MMOs and how they operate. They also use more underhanded methods, idk, akin to offering booze to alchoholics :P . Anyway it's a bit more complicated than that about how and why we're getting tons of crap instead of quality. But I do agree a lot of fault is with gamers, if nothing else, they (we) put up with so much bullshit it's incredible. If pretty much any other industry acted like MMO devs and publishers, there'd be hell to pay. Edit: for some reason I can't have paragraphs. Sadness.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    That's a silly question.

    No-one is responsible for the games that aren't made. So if you'd like different games, that's your personal problem. Neither the devs, nor the casuals, nor any other party has any responsibility to make games to your liking.
     
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Option for both perhaps? @Gdemami Well, devs are at fault too. Making shit games, which then make losses which in turn forces publishers to go the "safe" route. Devs also maximise the input/profit. They focus on F2P stuff and not the quality of the game. Or they focus on whales (which is a small percentage of players) to the detriment of others. Hm, there was a nice vid somewhere of some dude having a presentation about Chinese browser MMOs and how they operate. They also use more underhanded methods, idk, akin to offering booze to alchoholics :P . Anyway it's a bit more complicated than that about how and why we're getting tons of crap instead of quality. But I do agree a lot of fault is with gamers, if nothing else, they (we) put up with so much bullshit it's incredible. If pretty much any other industry acted like MMO devs and publishers, there'd be hell to pay. Edit: for some reason I can't have paragraphs. Sadness.
    That is what I had on mind, I refuse to believe someone can be seriously thinking something you just posted.

    I can understand you being frustrated or such but c'mon...
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    "Developers are forcing players to play bad games"

    LMAO

    These forums can be hilarious every now and then... :D
  • fatearsfatears Member UncommonPosts: 86
    What?
    You received 25 LOLs. 
    You are posting some laughably bad content, please desist. 
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Who's responsible for the world revolving around profit?

    Er... capitalism?
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    wow, horrible setup.  I blame all those people's parents.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,331
    edited June 2016
    I blame the forum whiners.
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    All involved are at fault, really.  The "casual" label throws me off.  It seems that casuals, in my opinion have the time to play.  I think I'd say the hardcore, "maximize my time" players are the ones who want cash shop easy.

    Aren't casuals the ones who take time to craft, or socialize?  You know... activities not combat oriented?

    VG

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited June 2016
    there are 3 entities to blame.

    - Investors who know nothing about games but want their money back ASAP.
    - Greed and whoever uses it no matter what.
    - Gamers who support the above just because "they do whatever they want with their money" completely ignoring that they are fueling that fire and making things worse.

    Its never been about casuals, or anything else. IMO.




  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    delete5230 said:


    I'll not give my opinion yet to not sway the poll. 

    Your opinion is worthless anyway as you didn't even give a complete poll.

    Maybe try something like:

    a) ultra casuals
    b) core players (aka the players that were known as casuals in the EQ days and probably still make up the majority of the playerbase)
    c) hardcore players
    d) developers
    e) people who spout garbage like 'the casuals ask for everything with little effort' or 'PvPers ruin everything!'
  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 940
    If you want to make it this simple - which is isn't by far - the ones responsobile are those who think you can draw a clear line between "casual" and "non-casual" (often "core"). One moment you are casual, the other no longer.

    And those so called "core" players will complain that this one pixel is #BF4F51 instead of #BF4F50.  No time for socializing, there is a world-first or at least server record to be had, that rush to max level skipping everything that is skippable, and then after 20 hours of non-stop gaming, they'll ask "where's the content?".

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    delete5230 said:


    We had an influx of easy mmos where being social is not needed.  Games that have 30 days of content if played a lot.  Games that you level extremely easy and the play is not hard at all.........For some this may not even be a bad thing. 


    For what its worth, the group of people probably most responsible for this are the ones that say 'the game begins at max level'.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I can't really say Devs because they have to make a living.  Can't say it's the casuals because they are casual so don't usually take gaming that seriously.  That puts the blame on the hardcore for always wanting a game that's a challenge but can't come to a consensus of what they really want.  Hardcore are willing to put the time and money into a game, be verbal about what they want but hardcore players can't come together and agree on a game.  If they did there would be more MMORPG's that provide a great challenge worthy of minimaxing and Excel spreadsheets.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    I tried to come up with a really good argument as to why any success or failure of a game is really down to the Developers, and then i realised how daft the poll was and how leading the questions were.
    I think of the two options, i'll claim the 3rd.
    If i had to choose between Cookies and Cake, i'd choose the Pizza, because, stuff. :p

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