It's subjective you see. Each person's threshold for grinding is subjective. So I don't see how him saying that he's sick of the grind is going to help anyone aside from venting about not realising how bad the grind was going to be.
Not that I believe you are saying it, but I don't think it would be a fair summary of the OP to say it's simply venting. He is describing an experience that may or may not resemble what others have seen or felt if they have already played BDO, what others might experience themselves if they come to play BDO in the future.
Is this helpful? Dunno. Maybe; maybe not. Does it need to be? No, I don't think so. It only need be some proper combination of reasonable, thoughtful, interesting, original, informative, inspirational, humourous, provocative, endearing--I'm sure you get my point.
Of course, this does not mean to say that the replies cannot be critical themselves of the OP. I only argue that the OP uses the forums appropriately in this particular case, and that the OP does not deserve to be cast as a malcontent when he presents a decent argument for his perspective.
You're welcome! But in all seriousness, I gave the game a good shot, put in about $100 total.
I expected grind, but I didn't expect the grind to be so heavy for simply trying to see the whole game. I expected grind to compete in PvP, I expected grind in crafting/gathering. I never expected the mob grinding that is required for the general PvE experience.
I figured I would make an "I quit" thread to spark discussion on where BDO went wrong for probably a lot of people, not just myself. Population has dipped quite a bit, I am sure others have their own reasons, and I am sure some others share my reasoning as well. I have posted A LOT about things I have enjoyed and loved about BD over the past 3 months as well, so it's not all doom and gloom from me lol.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Elsword takes like, one week of grinding to reach level cap, and then like, maybe two weeks to get your end-game secret dungeon set? Less if you earned up lots of in-game currency and can just buy the thing. Of course, then you need to pay cash to level that equipment all up to be competitive.
Granado Espada, people could get max level characters in a week if they knew how to grind and used cash shop items. Raiding to get the best gear on the other hand could take a long time or be impossible if you were't in a good clan (and even if you were), but raiding wasn't really grinding (although some raids were stupid like ones that had you running around for up to 12 hours hoping the boss would spawn.). of course, then you'd need to pay cash to level that equipment all up to be competitive.
You reach max level pretty quickly in Tera Online IIRC. Though IIRC you'd then need to pay cash to level up your equipment.
BDO's levelling is soft-capped so it really doesn't end. You can get to level 50 quickly but the way combat is calculated, you're going to be at a HUGE disadvantage vs anyone level 55 and even 55 will be at a pretty big disadvantage vs a level 57. And the grind there is HUGE, apparently (assuming no hacks). In the western version, I don't think paying cash to level up your equipment is there.
People hate the idea of pay-to-win and for good reason. However, part of the whole reason that developers make a game a pain in the ass to advance is so you'll pay them. In Black Desert Online, the end game becomes a pain in the ass and the option to pay to get past it isn't there (beyond using those insta res items when you die to avoid exp loss and the initial $100 or so for all the exp boosters). I guess it's for "the good of the game" but it looks like it'll still make most casuals quit anyways once they reach that point and there won't even be any extra profit in it for Daum.
Moral of the story: If you're going to make your end game a pain in the ass, make sure you at least profit from it! Or, alternatively, don't make it a pain in the ass.
Elsword takes like, one week of grinding to reach level cap, and then like, maybe two weeks to get your end-game secret dungeon set? Less if you earned up lots of in-game currency and can just buy the thing. Of course, then you need to pay cash to level that equipment all up to be competitive.
Granado Espada, people could get max level characters in a week if they knew how to grind and used cash shop items. Raiding to get the best gear on the other hand could take a long time or be impossible if you were't in a good clan (and even if you were), but raiding wasn't really grinding (although some raids were stupid like ones that had you running around for up to 12 hours hoping the boss would spawn.). of course, then you'd need to pay cash to level that equipment all up to be competitive.
You reach max level pretty quickly in Tera Online IIRC. Though IIRC you'd then need to pay cash to level up your equipment.
BDO's levelling is soft-capped so it really doesn't end. You can get to level 50 quickly but the way combat is calculated, you're going to be at a HUGE disadvantage vs anyone level 55 and even 55 will be at a pretty big disadvantage vs a level 57. And the grind there is HUGE, apparently (assuming no hacks). In the western version, I don't think paying cash to level up your equipment is there.
People hate the idea of pay-to-win and for good reason. However, part of the whole reason that developers make a game a pain in the ass to advance is so you'll pay them. In Black Desert Online, the end game becomes a pain in the ass and the option to pay to get past it isn't there (beyond using those insta res items when you die to avoid exp loss and the initial $100 or so for all the exp boosters). I guess it's for "the good of the game" but it looks like it'll still make most casuals quit anyways once they reach that point and there won't even be any extra profit in it for Daum.
Moral of the story: If you're going to make your end game a pain in the ass, make sure you at least profit from it! Or, alternatively, don't make it a pain in the ass.
This sums it up for me!
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Grinding never bothered me if there was purpose behind it. With BDO there is absolutely no purpose to keep grinding for these new areas. They don't have anything that is truly new and because there is no PvE content that really is challenging, there seems like there is no purpose to any of it. Back before WoW, you had games like Asherons call and Everquest which did nothing to hide their grind. In Asherons call's case, there was no true end game but there were monthly patches which added new quests and stories that were actually interesting and meaningful to complete. They gave you unique rewards which was pretty cool. With Everquest, the grind was always with a group, (in vanilla up till luclin soloing was extremely difficult). So you always had that social aspect and the group content was difficult. You had to keep your eyes on the monitor and to keep your self and your group alive which would keep you engaged. They had end game Raids but they were nothing like raids in new games.
@JDis25 you know they made xp gain easier across the board, right? It was in the patch of... June 15th? The one that took away the 30% XP boost, but instead changed a lot of things around. They also lowered the level requirement and such for Valencia, and the Infinite Masteries now start at 50 instead of 55. You quit just before that happened judging by your OP... x.x
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
My issue with the game has always been that I need to do things in the game I dislike to compete in PvP. It is not a proper sandbox if I am basically forced to grind in PvE, to progress in PvP. That makes no sense at all.
There really should be an equivelent grind in a PvP aspect, but it seems outside node wars you are punished for PvPing. Why even allow PKing if its so heavily punished?
This is all my opinion. So don't bother saying I am wrong, because I simply won't care.
My issue with the game is it's a shitty PvE game and an unbalanced mess of a PvP game. What it REALLY is is an economy sim, if we're only counting the good parts.
This game was always a, "korean grinder" and that has been known from day one. Anyone that came in expecting anything less...I mean...just read, they advertised it. As far as hacks etc, they have pushed everything back determined to stop the hackers and that is a great thing. Recently the company that makes the main hack conceded saying that they are no longer able to produce the products...so DAUM has done a good job there. I'm far from a fanboy...I don't like certain things, but in the end...for a pvper that enjoys owpvp...it is the best game out there hands down.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
I stopped playing ages ago but you fell for the trap like many others.
I never spent any gold on gear or upgrades. Every cent I got I put it in the bank, because I knew other expansions were on the horizon, so to me ... this made everything in the NA version outdated and not worth wasting time on. When Mediah released so quickly I knew I was right, instead of wasting gold on gear that would be replaced soon, I saved up and waited for the newest expansion.
As soon as Valencia released I would have had about 200M+ to spend on gear and be ahead of a majority of players. But I quit long before then, oh well.
I stopped playing ages ago but you fell for the trap like many others.
I never spent any gold on gear or upgrades. Every cent I got I put it in the bank, because I knew other expansions were on the horizon, so to me ... this made everything in the NA version outdated and not worth wasting time on. When Mediah released so quickly I knew I was right, instead of wasting gold on gear that would be replaced soon, I saved up and waited for the newest expansion.
As soon as Valencia released I would have had about 200M+ to spend on gear and be ahead of a majority of players. But I quit long before then, oh well.
You fell for the trap you laid down yourself? Duh...
Black Desert, Like Archeage could have been the best MMO on the planet. So much freedom, so much personal choice, consequences, guild comradery, you can really carve out your niche in the game.
Where it fails, is that it only appeals to the "hardcore" crowd. While anyone can have fun leveling a character to 50, this is not enough to be able to experience all this game has to offer. THAT is where the game fails. You see.. when Mediah came out, it only took me about a week or so to gear up for it. That's fine, it was wonderful seeing the new lands, and continuing with my progression.
Now, that I am getting to the point where I am fairly well geared, RNG is now the only way to get my character to where I need to be for upcoming content, Valencia. This and hours and hours of grinding to 55. Even if I manage to get myself to where I need to be for Valencia in a month's time (it's looking like it will be that long); by that time, I will hate this game, hate my class, I don't know how people do it. The combat isn't THAT good that I want to grind out BDO like a full-time job just to enjoy the new zone.
Why are Valencia's gear requirements so restrictive? Does that make BDO a better game to some people? Is that your badge of honor for slogging through endless hordes of easy-mode enemies and bosses?
Another annoying thing is that I finally got my witch's earrings, and marks of shadow, tree spirit belt. I was going to go through the horror of PRI'ing (upgrading) all of these, now they are gone from the marketplace and nobody cares about them anymore now that Pirate accessories are out, and when Valencia launches, even better accessories will come out... such a waste. Now I have to either somehow swipe them off the AH or grind them myself (not doing that). OR buy all new accessories, which means grind more money. grind, grind, grind. RNG, RNG, RNG.
It sucks because what this game does best, is what you will be doing the least. What this game does best, is what most players will never get to experience. And so it goes, another MMO that lost me due to being too demanding of my time, and primarily focused on the stuff that isn't all that fun. I know when it's time to quit a game when I login for the sole reason of not being left behind, rather than because the game is fun to me.
I agree completely.
What truly killed it for me is learning that this MMO uses accuracy in PvP even at high lvls. Meaning if your lvl 53 and their 55, you have no chance in hell of beating them. This alone kind of kills the "action combat", whats the point of trying outplay your opponent if the mechanics don't allow you to even do that in the first place?
The only way I can see them fixing that is to even out stats at 50+, meaning get rid of accuracy. I'm all for long-term progression, but this game does not have that. It just has a stupid amount of requirements before you can even begin being viable.
Why am i not surprised? The game is beautiful looking, but at it's core, BDO is just another hack-n-slash grindfest. Combat is nice, but the crappy A.I. doesn't make up for it. Progression in leveling requires grinding. If the core sucks, the rest of the game will.
I've stopped playing. I still think it's a good game and I don't begrudge the money I have spent, but it is the most "frontloaded" MMO of any I have played. You start the game, hear the "sandbox" talk (not true) see the wonderful graphics and open world, the immersion, the life skills, the nodes etc...... and think you're found a game that could be your home for a while..... but a little while later you realize everything is cosmetic compared to grinding, and that, yes, it is just another ten a penny grinder.
Bit of a shame really in that I feel it's a waste of a wonderful open world, but like I said, fun for a while and I would say to any new players, try the trial.
I've stopped playing. I still think it's a good game and I don't begrudge the money I have spent, but it is the most "frontloaded" MMO of any I have played. You start the game, hear the "sandbox" talk (not true) see the wonderful graphics and open world, the immersion, the life skills, the nodes etc...... and think you're found a game that could be your home for a while..... but a little while later you realize everything is cosmetic compared to grinding, and that, yes, it is just another ten a penny grinder.
Bit of a shame really in that I feel it's a waste of a wonderful open world, but like I said, fun for a while and I would say to any new players, try the trial.
I would say that is pretty much spot on. A problem I ran into was after 50 and being slow at the keyboard, I took to many dirt naps. BUT.
The biggest issues was dullness of repetitive play. I never really saw a sandbox but more like go to this area and kill mobs then go to this area a do it again for some random chance to get something you 'may' want to keep although I probably already bought it from the market.
The amount of time invested in crafting it was way beyond dull and boring.
The random generator us just to random with such a low success rate.
I've stopped playing. I still think it's a good game and I don't begrudge the money I have spent, but it is the most "frontloaded" MMO of any I have played. You start the game, hear the "sandbox" talk (not true) see the wonderful graphics and open world, the immersion, the life skills, the nodes etc...... and think you're found a game that could be your home for a while..... but a little while later you realize everything is cosmetic compared to grinding, and that, yes, it is just another ten a penny grinder.
Bit of a shame really in that I feel it's a waste of a wonderful open world, but like I said, fun for a while and I would say to any new players, try the trial.
I think this is a somewhat legitimate complaint. If you can't handle grinding mobs, you're probably not going to last too terribly long in BDO.
I disagree the crafting and life skills are cosmetic though. You can make good passive money with them, and the system is very cool and unique. You're right that they can never replace grinding, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- they want active gameplay to be the most profitable thing.
Plus there's the fact that any MMO endgame is a grind. Whether you're grinding a spot of mobs in BDO or a dungeon/dailies in WoW 100 times to advance, it amounts to the same thing. Dungeons are a bit more interesting but they are still a grind.
That's not to mention that BDO has seiges and node wars. Most "ten a penny grinders" don't have something like that, or an expansive crafting system, or amazing graphics etc etc etc.
Bottomline: I think it's a legitimate complaint to point out BDO has a lot of grinding. I don't think it's at all fair to say that just because of that it's a low quality game.
I've stopped playing. I still think it's a good game and I don't begrudge the money I have spent, but it is the most "frontloaded" MMO of any I have played. You start the game, hear the "sandbox" talk (not true) see the wonderful graphics and open world, the immersion, the life skills, the nodes etc...... and think you're found a game that could be your home for a while..... but a little while later you realize everything is cosmetic compared to grinding, and that, yes, it is just another ten a penny grinder.
Bit of a shame really in that I feel it's a waste of a wonderful open world, but like I said, fun for a while and I would say to any new players, try the trial.
I think this is a somewhat legitimate complaint. If you can't handle grinding mobs, you're probably not going to last too terribly long in BDO.
I disagree the crafting and life skills are cosmetic though. You can make good passive money with them, and the system is very cool and unique. You're right that they can never replace grinding, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- they want active gameplay to be the most profitable thing.
Plus there's the fact that any MMO endgame is a grind. Whether you're grinding a spot of mobs in BDO or a dungeon/dailies in WoW 100 times to advance, it amounts to the same thing. Dungeons are a bit more interesting but they are still a grind.
That's not to mention that BDO has seiges and node wars. Most "ten a penny grinders" don't have something like that, or an expansive crafting system, or amazing graphics etc etc etc.
Bottomline: I think it's a legitimate complaint to point out BDO has a lot of grinding. I don't think it's at all fair to say that just because of that it's a low quality game.
The real problem is obvious:
End game grinding income absolutely trounces all sources of other income.
Why?
Why shouldn't highest ranks of life skills bring in equivalent?
It's pretty silly to put in all these crafting and life systems in game when they just don't come close to straight up grinding.
Imagine how awesome it would be to make crafing be just as viable.
Node wars are pretty pointless IMO, same with sieges. It's a fun feature that many will give up due to population (many nodes had no opposition and free for the taking) and outside guild icon and extra silver there is no other benefit.
No wonder in Korea hardly anyone even bothers with node wars or sieges.
End game grinding trounces all other forms of progression in every MMO. Why? Because you want people actively playing the game for the most part.
BDO is unique in that you can grind while your workers are working, so you get a nice passive income boost.
Lots of people reported having tons of fun at node wars and seiges, some guilds getting income of over a billion silver. Is fun and silver enough of an incentive? I think so.
Some people on the forums were complaining they are TOO REWARDING, because they can result in guilds snowballing out of control.
I have a question for you- why do you play this game since you hate on it constantly? Why aren't you playing Archeage which you claim is so much better in so many ways?
I have not played this game......Mostly because I need to get a new GPU. I was curious thought because of the reasons why others have posted why they like it and I am certain I'd get enough enjoyment from the game to make it a value. But probably not as a long term game. One thing I've learned about this genre. Regardless of what game we are discussing, if its primary source of income is from a cash shop, and offers "Items of convenience" , you will never grind your way to a competitive level to be able to compete in the upper tiers. As long as there are items in the cash shop that allow players to bypass grinding or make grinding more effective, there are players who will use both methods. There are rich basement dwellers too.
EDIT: There are some exceptions to that rule above.
I find this game very enjoyable only because I hardly kill mobs and I will not be PvPing so for me I am enjoying doing the trade am looking into making my olive,mushroom or sunflower crates soon and I fish and will make my fishing boat also. I am so busy every time I play I do not even notice the cash shop or other stuff as I do not need it. I guess I'm the type of player that enjoys the world itself and I am happy to do the stuff that involves trading, fishing, farming ,horse breeding and just having conversations with NPCs.
If I wanted to kill mobs I can do that in any other game though but not what I enjoy doing the other things in this game .I sometimes just climb up high stuff just to look about me. The world of BDO really does make me want to play it.
That is not to say I do not understand why people find it lacking for its PvP. I get that but it does not apply to me.
Comments
Is this helpful? Dunno. Maybe; maybe not. Does it need to be? No, I don't think so. It only need be some proper combination of reasonable, thoughtful, interesting, original, informative, inspirational, humourous, provocative, endearing--I'm sure you get my point.
Of course, this does not mean to say that the replies cannot be critical themselves of the OP. I only argue that the OP uses the forums appropriately in this particular case, and that the OP does not deserve to be cast as a malcontent when he presents a decent argument for his perspective.
I expected grind, but I didn't expect the grind to be so heavy for simply trying to see the whole game. I expected grind to compete in PvP, I expected grind in crafting/gathering. I never expected the mob grinding that is required for the general PvE experience.
I figured I would make an "I quit" thread to spark discussion on where BDO went wrong for probably a lot of people, not just myself. Population has dipped quite a bit, I am sure others have their own reasons, and I am sure some others share my reasoning as well. I have posted A LOT about things I have enjoyed and loved about BD over the past 3 months as well, so it's not all doom and gloom from me lol.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Granado Espada, people could get max level characters in a week if they knew how to grind and used cash shop items. Raiding to get the best gear on the other hand could take a long time or be impossible if you were't in a good clan (and even if you were), but raiding wasn't really grinding (although some raids were stupid like ones that had you running around for up to 12 hours hoping the boss would spawn.). of course, then you'd need to pay cash to level that equipment all up to be competitive.
You reach max level pretty quickly in Tera Online IIRC. Though IIRC you'd then need to pay cash to level up your equipment.
BDO's levelling is soft-capped so it really doesn't end. You can get to level 50 quickly but the way combat is calculated, you're going to be at a HUGE disadvantage vs anyone level 55 and even 55 will be at a pretty big disadvantage vs a level 57. And the grind there is HUGE, apparently (assuming no hacks). In the western version, I don't think paying cash to level up your equipment is there.
People hate the idea of pay-to-win and for good reason. However, part of the whole reason that developers make a game a pain in the ass to advance is so you'll pay them. In Black Desert Online, the end game becomes a pain in the ass and the option to pay to get past it isn't there (beyond using those insta res items when you die to avoid exp loss and the initial $100 or so for all the exp boosters). I guess it's for "the good of the game" but it looks like it'll still make most casuals quit anyways once they reach that point and there won't even be any extra profit in it for Daum.
Moral of the story: If you're going to make your end game a pain in the ass, make sure you at least profit from it! Or, alternatively, don't make it a pain in the ass.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
There really should be an equivelent grind in a PvP aspect, but it seems outside node wars you are punished for PvPing. Why even allow PKing if its so heavily punished?
This is all my opinion. So don't bother saying I am wrong, because I simply won't care.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I never spent any gold on gear or upgrades. Every cent I got I put it in the bank, because I knew other expansions were on the horizon, so to me ... this made everything in the NA version outdated and not worth wasting time on. When Mediah released so quickly I knew I was right, instead of wasting gold on gear that would be replaced soon, I saved up and waited for the newest expansion.
As soon as Valencia released I would have had about 200M+ to spend on gear and be ahead of a majority of players. But I quit long before then, oh well.
What truly killed it for me is learning that this MMO uses accuracy in PvP even at high lvls. Meaning if your lvl 53 and their 55, you have no chance in hell of beating them. This alone kind of kills the "action combat", whats the point of trying outplay your opponent if the mechanics don't allow you to even do that in the first place?
The only way I can see them fixing that is to even out stats at 50+, meaning get rid of accuracy. I'm all for long-term progression, but this game does not have that. It just has a stupid amount of requirements before you can even begin being viable.
Bit of a shame really in that I feel it's a waste of a wonderful open world, but like I said, fun for a while and I would say to any new players, try the trial.
The biggest issues was dullness of repetitive play. I never really saw a sandbox but more like go to this area and kill mobs then go to this area a do it again for some random chance to get something you 'may' want to keep although I probably already bought it from the market.
The amount of time invested in crafting it was way beyond dull and boring.
The random generator us just to random with such a low success rate.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I disagree the crafting and life skills are cosmetic though. You can make good passive money with them, and the system is very cool and unique. You're right that they can never replace grinding, but that's not necessarily a bad thing- they want active gameplay to be the most profitable thing.
Plus there's the fact that any MMO endgame is a grind. Whether you're grinding a spot of mobs in BDO or a dungeon/dailies in WoW 100 times to advance, it amounts to the same thing. Dungeons are a bit more interesting but they are still a grind.
That's not to mention that BDO has seiges and node wars. Most "ten a penny grinders" don't have something like that, or an expansive crafting system, or amazing graphics etc etc etc.
Bottomline: I think it's a legitimate complaint to point out BDO has a lot of grinding. I don't think it's at all fair to say that just because of that it's a low quality game.
BDO is unique in that you can grind while your workers are working, so you get a nice passive income boost.
Lots of people reported having tons of fun at node wars and seiges, some guilds getting income of over a billion silver. Is fun and silver enough of an incentive? I think so.
Some people on the forums were complaining they are TOO REWARDING, because they can result in guilds snowballing out of control.
I have a question for you- why do you play this game since you hate on it constantly? Why aren't you playing Archeage which you claim is so much better in so many ways?
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
EDIT: There are some exceptions to that rule above.
If I wanted to kill mobs I can do that in any other game though but not what I enjoy doing the other things in this game .I sometimes just climb up high stuff just to look about me. The world of BDO really does make me want to play it.
That is not to say I do not understand why people find it lacking for its PvP. I get that but it does not apply to me.