I, personally, think that there are good things about the old design paradigms and there are good thing about the current paradigms. But I don't think you can create a great game simply by going back in time. You have to adapt to modern standards - at the very least.
...
Well, luckily for you your personal tastes accommodate both the old and new designs. However, that is not going to be the case for everyone.
Trying to invalidate other people's preferences by insinuating that "they don't really know what they want" is failsauce. You're only doing that because they don't agree with you, and you're trying to find a way to "prove that they're wrong".
I'm absolutely sure that the 100 or so people that regularly complain on these forums about the lack of "old-fashioned" game designs are all genuine fans of those designs. Yes, they are a tiny minority in today's massive online gaming pool, but just because they represent a minority viewpoint doesn't mean that they are lying to themselves !
I apologize in advance as this will sound harsh, but after years and years of this shite I've grown weary of these naval gazing, somewhat accusatory, not to mention pointless, tail chasing debates, over what boils down to nothing better than "My Dad's opinion can kick your Dad's opinions ass."
Here goes, hunker down. If you don't wish to listen to the angry rantings of a world weary old curmudgeon, look away now.
Oh fuck! This shit again. How the fuck can you or I quantify how much something means to some other person? For some individual SWG might just actually be the best damn MMO they ever played. That's simply their opinion. It doesn't mean that feeling should be embraced by everyone. It also doesn't mean any of us have a right to sit in sneering judgement on those people, claiming they must have a screw lose if we happen to not agree with them, when they think our favorite game of choice sucks donkey bollocks. Every individuals life experiences are unique. What matters to one person can and will be quite different to what matters to another. Fucking deal with that idea and move on with your fucking lives. Stop looking for universal truth or meaning where none can exist. People like what they like, and dislike what they dislike. Its not up to the rest of us to decide, sit in judgement over, or try justify/disprove those opinions for others. Its also not up to the rest of us to go out and piss all over someone elses good time just because we feel bored, pissed off, or disenfranchised.
Also, of the one place on the internet I felt it was probably safe to venture without being subjected to more angry shrill hysteria over the fucking Brexit, I thought it would be here. Thanks ever so much for fucking that up as well.
Damn well put.
This whole topic seems like click bait for the sake of click bait. Do we really need to discuss how my opinions affect me and how your opinions affect you? I think not, but here we are three pages deep and on the cusp of drama...again.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
But Mechwarrior doesn't have an emulation server. MPBT was gone before AOL was.
If it did, and I nostalgically signed up for it, my nostalgia suddenly becomes...not?
Signing up != playing long-term.
No one is denying the power of nostalgia.
It's the same with C64 or Amiga emulators. We, as geeks, love those things - but how many hours do we REALLY spend playing these games?
Well...zero because those weren't MMORPGs.
Just as my introduction to computers basically eradicated my interest on board games (no more struggle to find others to play with) MMORPGs extinguished my interest in single player games. (I could easily find other players to game with)
Hence my displeasure that modern MMORPGS have devolved into largely single player experiences.
I have no problem with optional multiplayer. In fact, I hate being forced to group if I'm not in the mood for it.
The vast majority of modern MMOs have great group-centric content - it's just optional.
I'd like to see a little more dependency between players and a bit less optional.
You aren't being honest if you can't admit most MMOs are largely solo experiences.
I don't agree at all that they're solo experiences. I think that's a complete fabrication.
But they've changed the multiplayer aspect from largely obligatory to largely optional. But that's something else entirely.
Personally, I don't EVER play an MMO unless I intend to share that experience. I've never been able to enjoy an MMO as an exclusively solo experience. The content and gameplay just can't compete with singleplayer games - and I happen to think that pretty much any game is enhanced if it's shared.
That said, I greatly appreciate being able to play alone and experience most of the game - because I'm often not in a social mood.
However, there are cases where the multiplayer gameplay suffers - and I could name games like ESO and Secret World as definite culprits. In those games, it seems the cooperative PvE multiplayer flow was almost an afterthought.
But, for the majority of modern MMOs - group gameplay is highly enjoyable and obviously a high priority for developers.
What I will agree with, however, is that MMOs have changed from "virtual worlds" full of player agency - to "content delivery devices" with little of the initial magic left.
Some of that is due to the change in design paradigms - and some of that is due to genre exhaustion.
Interesting, I was actually thinking of both ESO and TSW (along with SWTOR) when I said they were mostly solo experiences (by design)
I actually grouped up more in ArcheAge alpha participating in a variety of guild run events that were by no means forced, the mechanics were just available.
I too prefer to solo when I want, and my mining in EVE is totally solo unless I join corp/alliance operations.
I do join friends to run the more difficult complexes/escalations to improve efficiency, and of course for PVP ops it's really a must.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I, personally, think that there are good things about the old design paradigms and there are good thing about the current paradigms. But I don't think you can create a great game simply by going back in time. You have to adapt to modern standards - at the very least.
...
Well, luckily for you your personal tastes accommodate both the old and new designs. However, that is not going to be the case for everyone.
Trying to invalidate other people's preferences by insinuating that "they don't really know what they want" is failsauce. You're only doing that because they don't agree with you, and you're trying to find a way to "prove that they're wrong".
I'm absolutely sure that the 100 or so people that regularly complain on these forums about the lack of "old-fashioned" game designs are all genuine fans of those designs. Yes, they are a tiny minority in today's massive online gaming pool, but just because they represent a minority viewpoint doesn't mean that they are lying to themselves !
So, trying to invalidate my opinion isn't failsauce?
I'm not invalidating preferences - I'm questioning the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of players genuinely interested in a long-term throwback like WoW vanilla or Pantheon.
I never said there's not a single person like that, though - that would be your fantasy.
As for what the 100 or so people you're talking about - which is obviously a completely fabricated number - I don't think either of us has the slightest chance of knowing what they're really like.
I'm talking about human nature and my experience with nostalgia when it comes to people in general. It's not about specific people who may or may not want exactly what they claim to want.
Yes, I really do think these people are lying to themselves if they don't understand just how small a minority they belong to.
Sure, when I think of my past memories from games I tend to look at them in a more nostalgic kind of way. However, when I'm looking for a new game I look at both the good and bad from all my past gaming experiences and use what I learned from the past to have a better understanding of what I want and what I don't want in a new game. Most of us realize there never has been and there is never going to be a perfect game for us. Instead we look for the best possible game where the positive features we enjoy outweigh the negative parts we have to tolerate enough that it is overall an enjoyable experience. For every feature of a newer game, an experienced veteran MMORPG player can
probably point out an old game they tried that had at least one of the
same features in it: A "been there, done that." kind of thing. While it is nice to have a clearer picture of what kind of game you'll enjoy based on the wisdom gained from years of playing different MMOs it also prevents ever having that same feeling of trying something new and exciting again. (unless something truly new and exciting comes out that hasn't been tried before in a past game but that's not likely) I believe it is our actual experience and knowledge of past games that leads us to be more picky about them and not so much a skewed nostalgic view as suggested by the OP. Ignorance is bliss after all
I think the problem most have is that MMORPG were Kleenex by WoW's unrepeatable vast success and the money people who followed. It's essentially all we have now is different types Cola's when before we had multiple flavors of soda.
Most don't want the exact old games. We wanted what would have evolved without the genre becoming homogeneous.
When I was younger I played mostly AAA titles, I got bored with them after about a decade and I do not have any nostaligic feeling to go back to them. In the past 8 years or so I have been playing indie titles and I feel that they are far better than any of the AAA games I used to play.
I dont suffer from nostalgia
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I, personally, think that there are good things about the old design paradigms and there are good thing about the current paradigms. But I don't think you can create a great game simply by going back in time. You have to adapt to modern standards - at the very least.
...
Well, luckily for you your personal tastes accommodate both the old and new designs. However, that is not going to be the case for everyone.
Trying to invalidate other people's preferences by insinuating that "they don't really know what they want" is failsauce. You're only doing that because they don't agree with you, and you're trying to find a way to "prove that they're wrong".
I'm absolutely sure that the 100 or so people that regularly complain on these forums about the lack of "old-fashioned" game designs are all genuine fans of those designs. Yes, they are a tiny minority in today's massive online gaming pool, but just because they represent a minority viewpoint doesn't mean that they are lying to themselves !
So, trying to invalidate my opinion isn't failsauce?
I'm not invalidating preferences - I'm questioning the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of players genuinely interested in a long-term throwback like WoW vanilla or Pantheon.
I never said there's not a single person like that, though - that would be your fantasy.
As for what the 100 or so people you're talking about - which is obviously a completely fabricated number - I don't think either of us has the slightest chance of knowing what they're really like.
I'm talking about human nature and my experience with nostalgia when it comes to people in general. It's not about specific people who may or may not want exactly what they claim to want.
Yes, I really do think these people are lying to themselves if they don't understand just how small a minority they belong to.
Speaking for that small minority I wanted you to know we think of ourselves as "elite" so it's all good.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We probably also need to establish what it means to enjoy something. If logging on to a private server and playing for an hour a couple of times pr. month for a few years means you're enjoying it in a long-term fashion, then obviously my point won't hold.
I don't have any established number for what I would accept as "true" enjoyment - but obviously it would mean significant and regular playtime over the course of X months.
That's a fair point. I liked EQ1 when I played it live. I could not wait to log on every day. I've tried some private servers and just do not find the same urge. I'll occasionally (once every couple of months) log onto the live servers. The game has changed so much, it no longer "grabs me" like it once did.
I liked a lot of the systems and features of the old game, at the time. I still enjoy those features but the private servers I've tried are just one big clique. The starter zones are empty.
I agree that finding a "time still playing" is an good factor.
In fact, I hate being forced to group if I'm not in the mood for it.
Strange. When I did not feel "sociable" or "playing with others", MMORPGs were not my first choice in video game fun. If I did log in, I'd do crafting or some such. Otherwise, I'd boot up a single player game.
EDIT: I just saw your later post about not logging in when you did not feel like grouping. Sorry about that.
In fact, I hate being forced to group if I'm not in the mood for it.
Strange. When I did not feel "sociable" or "playing with others", MMORPGs were not my first choice in video game fun. If I did log in, I'd do crafting or some such. Otherwise, I'd boot up a single player game.
EDIT: I just saw your later post about not logging in when you did not feel like grouping. Sorry about that.
I am religious about using my game time for solo and I from time to time play MMORPGs so I would like to explain why that is.
The reason I like to play MMORPGs solo is because of the amount of content. The amount of content is usually astronomically larger than a single player game. That is becoming less true then it used to but when I can play a game of great depth in Single player I do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm absolutely sure that the 100 or so people that regularly complain on these forums about the lack of "old-fashioned" game designs are all genuine fans of those designs. Yes, they are a tiny minority in today's massive online gaming pool, but just because they represent a minority viewpoint doesn't mean that they are lying to themselves !
It doesn't mean they aren't lying to themselves either. By that I mean, people essentially expect lightning to strike twice. They think a feature list is going to recreate something that was as much about the time-frame, specific community, as well as overall mindset, as it was about a set of features.
It's also just as much about exposure, when MMOs were young our exposure to them was limited, that is no longer the case, that exposure has an affect on how we approach things moving forward, it also affects the difficulty such a thing can present to an individual with lots of exposure to it.
IN short people only consider certain variables in these discussions, rather than all variables that resulted in a certain outcome..
This is why for years folks like myself sat around waiting for that next SWG experience to come along, we never found it, we most likely never will, even the EMUs don't recreate what was there prior. Lightning rarely strikes the same spot twice.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Some features mold a gaming experience. For instance, despite the fact that p99 (a classic eq emu) is extremely top-heavy, filled with hardcores, bitter rivalries, excessive twinking and a completely broken economy, I can still log on and have fun with a random group of people I've never met before.
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
Some features mold a gaming experience. For instance, despite the fact that p99 (a classic eq emu) is extremely top-heavy, filled with hardcores, bitter rivalries, excessive twinking and a completely broken economy, I can still log on and have fun with a random group of people I've never met before.
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
I can have fun on an EMU server as well, yet I can't say I've found anything memorable about those servers thus far. They simply pale in comparison to the true live experience that was there before. Even the emu my old SWG server runs has that problem. The community just isn't the same, even if some of the names are familiar. Which detracts from that original experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Some features mold a gaming experience. For instance, despite the fact that p99 (a classic eq emu) is extremely top-heavy, filled with hardcores, bitter rivalries, excessive twinking and a completely broken economy, I can still log on and have fun with a random group of people I've never met before.
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
Yes, you can log on and have some fun. No one is denying you can have fun - or that you won't have fun with Pantheon.
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of players dedicating themselves in a SUSTAINED fashion like they did in the "good old days".
Once again, why did Vanguard shut down?
In the end, it was fully functional and quite stable. The world was huge and full of dungeons. Tons of characters with great diversity.
Some features mold a gaming experience. For instance, despite the fact that p99 (a classic eq emu) is extremely top-heavy, filled with hardcores, bitter rivalries, excessive twinking and a completely broken economy, I can still log on and have fun with a random group of people I've never met before.
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
Yes, you can log on and have some fun. No one is denying you can have fun - or that you won't have fun with Pantheon.
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of players dedicating themselves in a SUSTAINED fashion like they did in the "good old days".
Once again, why did Vanguard shut down?
In the end, it was fully functional and quite stable. The world was huge and full of dungeons. Tons of characters with great diversity.
Why did so very few people play it?
I don't get it.
I think marketing has a lot more to do with it then people think.
not just marketing for 'ok this game is cool' but marketing to counter the other marketing that says that the game is not cool.
aka. getting the kids to stop drinking from the koolaid is like pulling teeth
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Some features mold a gaming experience. For instance, despite the fact that p99 (a classic eq emu) is extremely top-heavy, filled with hardcores, bitter rivalries, excessive twinking and a completely broken economy, I can still log on and have fun with a random group of people I've never met before.
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
Yes, you can log on and have some fun. No one is denying you can have fun - or that you won't have fun with Pantheon.
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of players dedicating themselves in a SUSTAINED fashion like they did in the "good old days".
Once again, why did Vanguard shut down?
In the end, it was fully functional and quite stable. The world was huge and full of dungeons. Tons of characters with great diversity.
Why did so very few people play it?
I don't get it.
I think an important factor to consider is expectation, many seem to have an expectation of recreation, be it recreating what EQ was, SWG, so on and so forth. When they realize it's not as it was then, disappointment and abandonment set in.
Rather than trying to create new memories, they want to relive old ones. If people can go in with the former in mind, rather than the latter, there's a better chance of such titles succeeding. The proverbial checklist simply has to be done away with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I do the game was released in a very unfinished and buggy mess and fixed years later(aka to late). Then they tried to save it by going f2p only which resulted on it staying open just a couple of years more. Basically Sony fucked it up.
This makes no sense to me, most folks wanting this type of game have been waiting around since EQ "was ruined" for such an experience, how can there be a too late considering that?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IMO, MMORPG is an art just like any music style.....
and just like any music style it suffers a time of stagnation....
you guys speak as developers were shitty and they dont give you what you want coz they are bad or evil or whatever... when in reality the problem is that this so dreamy game is FAR FROM BEIN something EASY to do.....
As in any kind of art you have a golden age where a few people get it right ( UO, EQ , WOW , etc )..... when people get things right it leads to the popularization of such thing, that leads to massive generic products .... and people expect that those generic products to be of such good quality as the original arts..... when to do such thing u need TALENT.... and talent is not something that grows in every garden tree....
SO i dont think this s bout nostalgia..... but the hungry for such new talent to arise.....
we have emulators for UO , we have emulators for EQ , we have emulators for WOW etc... and IF you have FREE time to play on those you will have a blast in those even after 7 years or whenever.... i doubt u will ever see emulators of those new generic stuff.
they all play rock but very few albums are able to keep repetin in ur record player...
I do the game was released in a very unfinished and buggy mess and fixed years later(aka to late). Then they tried to save it by going f2p only which resulted on it staying open just a couple of years more. Basically Sony fucked it up.
This makes no sense to me, most folks wanting this type of game have been waiting around since EQ "was ruined" for such an experience, how can there be a too late considering that?
The whole vanguard argument is nothing but a strawman. The game had the worst launch of any mmo in history, and by the time it was stable, they WoWified the entire experience. It is not a valid comparison.
If nothing else, the fact that in a broken state they still had over a quarter of a million box sales demonstrates the desire for an eq successor was there. That most people left before level 2 shows the game had serious issues outside of gameplay.
and i also think that hardly a game will ever full fill this mmorpg gap bein built on HYPE ( kickstarter ). Because Art is something built by talent not by public opinion.....
I do the game was released in a very unfinished and buggy mess and fixed years later(aka to late). Then they tried to save it by going f2p only which resulted on it staying open just a couple of years more. Basically Sony fucked it up.
This makes no sense to me, most folks wanting this type of game have been waiting around since EQ "was ruined" for such an experience, how can there be a too late considering that?
The whole vanguard argument is nothing but a strawman. The game had the worst launch of any mmo in history, and by the time it was stable, they WoWified the entire experience. It is not a valid comparison.
If nothing else, the fact that in a broken state they still had over a quarter of a million box sales demonstrates the desire for an eq successor was there. That most people left before level 2 shows the game had serious issues outside of gameplay.
Honestly for me the only reason I didn't stick around with VG was because I found the game to be extremely boring. I liked the overall concept, I didn't find it ( months after launch) to be overly problematic at least for one coming from SWG anyway, it just wasn't fun.
That said the depth in it's systems was great IMO. It's a shame the rest of the experience didn't match up with that depth. Especially from a lore and atmosphere perspective, which was overly dull IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Trying to invalidate other people's preferences by insinuating that "they don't really know what they want" is failsauce. You're only doing that because they don't agree with you, and you're trying to find a way to "prove that they're wrong".
I'm absolutely sure that the 100 or so people that regularly complain on these forums about the lack of "old-fashioned" game designs are all genuine fans of those designs. Yes, they are a tiny minority in today's massive online gaming pool, but just because they represent a minority viewpoint doesn't mean that they are lying to themselves !
Is it even a testable distinction, really?
This whole topic seems like click bait for the sake of click bait. Do we really need to discuss how my opinions affect me and how your opinions affect you? I think not, but here we are three pages deep and on the cusp of drama...again.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I actually grouped up more in ArcheAge alpha participating in a variety of guild run events that were by no means forced, the mechanics were just available.
I too prefer to solo when I want, and my mining in EVE is totally solo unless I join corp/alliance operations.
I do join friends to run the more difficult complexes/escalations to improve efficiency, and of course for PVP ops it's really a must.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm not invalidating preferences - I'm questioning the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of players genuinely interested in a long-term throwback like WoW vanilla or Pantheon.
I never said there's not a single person like that, though - that would be your fantasy.
As for what the 100 or so people you're talking about - which is obviously a completely fabricated number - I don't think either of us has the slightest chance of knowing what they're really like.
I'm talking about human nature and my experience with nostalgia when it comes to people in general. It's not about specific people who may or may not want exactly what they claim to want.
Yes, I really do think these people are lying to themselves if they don't understand just how small a minority they belong to.
Most of us realize there never has been and there is never going to be a perfect game for us. Instead we look for the best possible game where the positive features we enjoy outweigh the negative parts we have to tolerate enough that it is overall an enjoyable experience.
For every feature of a newer game, an experienced veteran MMORPG player can probably point out an old game they tried that had at least one of the same features in it: A "been there, done that." kind of thing.
While it is nice to have a clearer picture of what kind of game you'll enjoy based on the wisdom gained from years of playing different MMOs it also prevents ever having that same feeling of trying something new and exciting again. (unless something truly new and exciting comes out that hasn't been tried before in a past game but that's not likely)
I believe it is our actual experience and knowledge of past games that leads us to be more picky about them and not so much a skewed nostalgic view as suggested by the OP. Ignorance is bliss after all
Most don't want the exact old games. We wanted what would have evolved without the genre becoming homogeneous.
I dont suffer from nostalgia
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thank you for your patience.
Please keep further discussion focused on nostalgia and gaming and not politics.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I liked a lot of the systems and features of the old game, at the time. I still enjoy those features but the private servers I've tried are just one big clique. The starter zones are empty.
I agree that finding a "time still playing" is an good factor.
VG
EDIT: I just saw your later post about not logging in when you did not feel like grouping. Sorry about that.
VG
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The reason I like to play MMORPGs solo is because of the amount of content. The amount of content is usually astronomically larger than a single player game. That is becoming less true then it used to but when I can play a game of great depth in Single player I do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
It's also just as much about exposure, when MMOs were young our exposure to them was limited, that is no longer the case, that exposure has an affect on how we approach things moving forward, it also affects the difficulty such a thing can present to an individual with lots of exposure to it.
IN short people only consider certain variables in these discussions, rather than all variables that resulted in a certain outcome..
This is why for years folks like myself sat around waiting for that next SWG experience to come along, we never found it, we most likely never will, even the EMUs don't recreate what was there prior. Lightning rarely strikes the same spot twice.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The main thing keeping the hundreds of thousands of people who've created accounts on that server from playing more often is failure to create new servers, lack of new content (its an emu), and a staff that has mostly lost interest and ranges from apathetic to downright crooked.
Yet I still find it enjoyable each time I go back, despite those problems and I believe wholeheartedly that a new game of the same design will be very successful.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of players dedicating themselves in a SUSTAINED fashion like they did in the "good old days".
Once again, why did Vanguard shut down?
In the end, it was fully functional and quite stable. The world was huge and full of dungeons. Tons of characters with great diversity.
Why did so very few people play it?
I don't get it.
not just marketing for 'ok this game is cool' but marketing to counter the other marketing that says that the game is not cool.
aka. getting the kids to stop drinking from the koolaid is like pulling teeth
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Rather than trying to create new memories, they want to relive old ones. If people can go in with the former in mind, rather than the latter, there's a better chance of such titles succeeding. The proverbial checklist simply has to be done away with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
IMO, MMORPG is an art just like any music style.....
and just like any music style it suffers a time of stagnation....
you guys speak as developers were shitty and they dont give you what you want coz they are bad or evil or whatever... when in reality the problem is that this so dreamy game is FAR FROM BEIN something EASY to do.....
As in any kind of art you have a golden age where a few people get it right ( UO, EQ , WOW , etc )..... when people get things right it leads to the popularization of such thing, that leads to massive generic products .... and people expect that those generic products to be of such good quality as the original arts..... when to do such thing u need TALENT.... and talent is not something that grows in every garden tree....
SO i dont think this s bout nostalgia..... but the hungry for such new talent to arise.....
we have emulators for UO , we have emulators for EQ , we have emulators for WOW etc... and IF you have FREE time to play on those you will have a blast in those even after 7 years or whenever.... i doubt u will ever see emulators of those new generic stuff.
they all play rock but very few albums are able to keep repetin in ur record player...
If nothing else, the fact that in a broken state they still had over a quarter of a million box sales demonstrates the desire for an eq successor was there. That most people left before level 2 shows the game had serious issues outside of gameplay.
That said the depth in it's systems was great IMO. It's a shame the rest of the experience didn't match up with that depth. Especially from a lore and atmosphere perspective, which was overly dull IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson