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Would anyone else like to have at least one harder mmo ?
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
Maybe I stand alone, and it is what it is.
I can't find even one mmo that's not dumbed down easy. All mmos are this way, even the classics. From level 1 to max. The only way to die is if your totally not paying attention or go to the bathroom without putting your character on a hill.
I've played many mmos in the past few years where abilities are pure animation's. It doesn't matter anymore. No need for healers or even tanks unless your prepping for a mini game dungeon. Why craft, why trade ?
I made another post " What's the attraction of solo ". It seems like many here like solo, I get it now. But crazy easy ?
I often complain about not having group content. But don't you think games should be developed where it can be fun to have two or three players in a group as an option but not really needed. Why bother when a single player can mow down a mob of eight. Hack and slash.
Why are mmos made like this ?......Even for solo players.
I guess you do have a few like EVE, Project Gorgon, and Project 1999 EQ1. But how about something new, or main stream !
Comments
Sadly games you can do easily solo until end-game are popular because that's what the larger audience once and, at the end of the day, MMOs are businesses.
Lots of people revive old-school MMOs for this purpose but I doubt we'll be seeing new "difficult" and "hardcore" mmos for a long time due to the shift in audience.
Guild Wars 2 you can play 5 levels higher, I can't seem to counter production my self like that.
Something is not right about that.
Why even develop games your players complete in less time than it takes to make new content?
Then you could play Wurm Online.
Also, I don't understand the mindset that says group content = harder than solo content. I guess some people haven't played challenging singleplayer games?
While it's true that it's much easier to rely on the lack of coordination between group members as a means of providing challenge - I don't think it's the answer to the lack of challenge.
I think challenge can be much more than PvE or PvP combat. I think games need to challenge the players in other ways - including puzzles, riddles, secrets, dialogue, and so on.
Obviously, people can just "look up" that stuff - much like they look up character builds and combat guides - but that's an individual choice.
So, yeah, I want challenge - but it's not at the top of my list. At the top of my list is evolution and content worth experiencing and investing in.
Hack and slash easy........Hate it.
I would settle for having that 5 LEVEL BELOW axe that makes me a little weak.
Then finding an AT LEVEL axe, that is noticeable.
As it stands now, anything will mow a mob down !.......Why craft ?
You are posting some laughably bad content, please desist.
In DAOC, you could fight (or had to) green or blue con NPC's for no challenge, yellow con for a decent fight that occasionally you might lose, especially if you picked NPCs with strong resistances to your primary attacks, and had strong attacks against your defenses. (skeletons were never a good choice for leather wearing Pierce users)
For more challenge, you'd fight Orange con, and even Reds, but you were sure to lose some fights if they BAF'd or you hit the higher level ones. (NPC's conned in a 3 level range)
Purple con was only for certain classes like Necromancers who could let their pet suck up the damage, and even then, a very dicey fight.
I suppose it still works the same way in more modern titles, I've not taken the time to analyze it as much, but again, challenge is what you make of it.
As for the EVE reference, I will be the first to say most EVE PVE content is face rolling easy, with few exceptions such as sleeper sights or incursions, but even then, just takes well coordinated group play and knowing your triggers, and nothing like the "dance with the stars" coordination of most modern raids/dungeons.
The real challenge in EVE comes from the players who may interrupt your activities, and not the activity itself.
While there is a market for challenging, even punishing games, I don't think the masses are looking for a Dark Souls MMORPG, it woud frustrate progression which I still feel is the defining characteristic of any MMORPG which players are looking for in most cases, not challenging game play.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally, I haven't played a hard MMO yet (swg, lotro, war, swtor as main ones), but each approached difficulty slightly differently.
SWG - The meta-game. PvE difficulty was all about the meta-game, your template. Build up the correct template and you could do anything. There was no real player skill, combat was always pretty straight forwards and the outcome was just a result of your template.
LotRO - Hardest MMO I've played. Gear meant very little, this game was all about tactics and inter-group dependancies. Every fight (at endgame) was a never ending stream of critical decision making. Constant resource management, group awareness, working properly as a team etc. Still, once you'd figured out tactics, most fights became pretty easy. Tactics would vary depending on group makeup.
WAR / SW:TOR - Easiest games I've played in terms of difficulty. WAR had more interdependancy than SW:TOR, but both games were primarily gear based. Got the right gear? Content is easy. Got lower gear? Content is impossible. Problem exemplified by one of the worst mechanics - enrage timers.
Final note on difficulty in games I've played - most of them at some point have simply reached a point where difficulty is measured in the number of mistakes your raid is able to make. This is relying on inherent problems of working as a team, rather than the content being difficult. As a former raid leader, what would normally happen is it would take a short amount of time to figure out tactics, followed by hours / days / weeks / months of trying a boss, waiting for that one attempt where no1 makes a mistake. That is not difficulty of content.
Truthfully, the hardest fights I've seen were in lotro, and the difficulty usually came from RNG. Boss's critting tanks, randomly switching aggro, randomly calling in extra adds, using skills at random times etc. These random events would cause problems for the raid, but the combat system gave you multiple ways to combat them. It meant most fights, regardless of knowing tactics or not, would reach a point where the team had to improvise to overcome a problem. Often referred to as "oh shit" moments, the best players could deal with any "oh shit" moments, whilst lesser players could only follow tactics but would crumble during an "oh shit" moment.
You are just inventing artificial difficulty. He is asking for difficulty to be designed into games.
You are posting some laughably bad content, please desist.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I echo DKLond's thought: "However, challenge for the sake of challenge isn't really my thing - and if the game offers little beyond it, that's not going to cut it."
VG
edit - We have started beta testing now for the mmo.
Life IS Feudal
~I am Many~
Not sure how this all will be at 'higher levels', but for now I'm in the 2nd map and enjoy the challenges thrown at me a lot!
The only problem today are rewards that do not scale well with "difficulty" because people do not like to grind mobs all that much.
Come on.....No one likes to play like that.
Add that how often do you see someone playing naked with a small dagger unless their a pervert.