I wish there was even one decent MMO where i could play 8 hours a day and not max my character in 10+ years. All these 3-month-MMOs they tend to release nowadays are not worth my time and money.
Why even develop games your players complete in less time than it takes to make new content?
I wished that as well until I became an adult with interests outside of MMORPGs.
Okay, i think i better elaborate a bit.
Obviously no one will play 8 hour a day regularly, and playing same games for 10 years is not that common either. What i meant is mmos should have much more longevity and/or replay value than what we have gotten lately, and no one should be able to reach a point where there is nothing to do to improve his/her character (unless ofc he/she playes 8+ hours a day and lives several hundreds of years).
Other way to say it would be calling it 'an open ended mmo', the kind of game with no 'end game' or 'the whole game is an end game'. Gameplay should be hard enough to motivate a player to improve his/her character's skills/gear/etc. constantly and developers shouldn't worry about their players hitting a brick wall every now and then as long as they make sure players always have a way to get past of it by improving their characters.
This 'everyone can see everything in no time without even trying' mentality has to stop. When developers are ahead of their players and can create new content faster than what players consume, there will always be new unseen content for everyone, no matter if you play an hour a week or several hours a day.
I can't find even one mmo that's not dumbed down easy. All mmos are this way, even the classics. From level 1 to max. The only way to die is if your totally not paying attention or go to the bathroom without putting your character on a hill.
I've played many mmos in the past few years where abilities are pure animation's. It doesn't matter anymore. No need for healers or even tanks unless your prepping for a mini game dungeon. Why craft, why trade ?
I made another post " What's the attraction of solo ". It seems like many here like solo, I get it now. But crazy easy ?
I often complain about not having group content. But don't you think games should be developed where it can be fun to have two or three players in a group as an option but not really needed. Why bother when a single player can mow down a mob of eight. Hack and slash.
Why are mmos made like this ?......Even for solo players.
I guess you do have a few like EVE, Project Gorgon, and Project 1999 EQ1. But how about something new, or main stream !
Wild. Star.
Forgetting about the social perception of the game, Actually playing the content is F****** hard.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
goboygo said:
He's talking about a game that's really hard for EVERYONE, which forces group play, interactions, crafting and trade.
High difficulty does not force people to group play, it forces people to leave the game entirely...
This goes both ways. If the dungeons are too hard then you won't be able to find a dungeon group outside of your guild. Players become so picky and elite and for good reason. I have literally run through GW2 dungeons and fractals to fail at least 20 times. These things are hard and if you don't have a really good group you can just hang it up. This usually results in cookie cutter builds and only one style of group will ever finish the dungeon. I don't mind difficulty but when they force a meta upon the players and make it so you only have 1 viable build per class for dungeons. Then it has failed.
You can always "gimp" yourself, options are limitless...
That's a ridiculous response, you seem to have missed the point here.
Hey Priest, how come you cant heal the group its an easy dungeon, uh well guys Im using my level 10 heal to make the game harder....... Sure like that's really an option isn't it.
Oh you mean just gimp yourself when playing solo..............in an MMO.
He's talking about a game that's really hard for EVERYONE, which forces group play, interactions, crafting and trade.
That's a ridiculous response. I agree.
Oh yea sorry, since I died I'm going to delete this character and make a new one good luck finding a new group member, maybe I'll play with the monitor off this time as well, you know just to make it harder. Gimp yourself because game designers can't do difficulty.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Nilden said:
Gimp yourself because game designers can't do difficulty.
It is not that they can't do it, there is no reason to do it.
If they want me to stick around a game needs to have difficulty. You know how you said people leave if it's too hard, I am the opposite and will leave if it's too easy.
I see no reason to stay if the game is faceroll.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Not if it's a PVPcentric, raiding-is-ALL, you-need-multiples-of-people-to-do-anything-interesting type of harder MMO. My husband and I ate up The Secret World... some of the puzzles were pretty fun to figure out. I hooked my husband onto mmo's back in the day with EQ, and we've progressed on and played LOTRO and SWTOR, but raiding is just not fun or convenient for us and we prefer mainly co-op with occasional groupings with friends.
I guess you do have a few like EVE, Project Gorgon, and Project 1999 EQ1. But how about something new, or main stream !
Project Gorgon looked easy as hell to me. Yeah they cut the GPS quest tracker out, which is a step in the right direction, but the quests themselves looked easy. Plus I think its B2P.
The only two (upcoming) games which want to bring back that kind of tough gameplay where youll need a group are Saga of Lucimia and Pantheon. Granted ive yet to actually see any actual challenge in the games demonstrations but theyre both still very early in development.
I can't find
even one mmo that's not dumbed down easy. All mmos are this way, even
the classics. From level 1 to max. The only way to die is if your
totally not paying attention or go to the bathroom without putting your
character on a hill.
I've played many mmos in the past few
years where abilities are pure animation's. It doesn't matter anymore.
No need for healers or even tanks unless your prepping for a mini game
dungeon. Why craft, why trade ?
I made another post " What's the attraction of solo ". It seems like many here like solo, I get it now. But crazy easy ?
I
often complain about not having group content. But don't you think
games should be developed where it can be fun to have two or three
players in a group as an option but not really needed. Why bother when a
single player can mow down a mob of eight. Hack and slash.
Why are mmos made like this ?......Even for solo players.
I guess you do have a few like EVE, Project Gorgon, and Project 1999 EQ1. But how about something new, or main stream !
I definitely hope that the MMO I'm waiting for, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, will be hard, and will require grouping and group cooperation for harder content, such as dungeons and named mobs. Otherwise I would see it as a failure.
I havent read that thread about solo MMOs simply because I have no interest in them. I certainly want an MMO to allow some soloing. Being forced to group always is also too strict. There should be easier mobs in the open land, also some solo questlines, such as boots of speed (dont remember their exact name but there was a questline like that in Vanguard and apparently also previously in EQ). But the really interesting parts of the game should be grouping.
I wouldnt mind a special class just for solists. Maybe the Paladin. Can progress through easier dungeons, just about 20 times slower than a group. Can kill easier named mobs, just that it takes ages. That would be OK in my opinion. If thats your thing, sure, go for it. Still they shouldnt be really efficient at soloing, just that it should be possible. But for example a necromancer class that can just waltz through dungeons ? Not cool.
I would also be OK if there was some classes that are not able to solo much. Maybe the Fighter, a tank without magic that just cant do anything but stand next to a mob and hit it, but excells in group as a top dps aside from being a tank. Or a Sorcerer, a typical glas cannon that doesnt get a single feature for kiting by themselves and really needs the protection of a group. The Priest that doesnt have much defense or damage at all, but excells at healing and buffing. Classes those player can choose that dont want to solo, ever, but have especially good group performance.
I wish there was even one decent MMO where i could play 8 hours a
day and not max my character in 10+ years. All these 3-month-MMOs they
tend to release nowadays are not worth my time and money.
Thats a bit extreme. I sometimes like to switch characters. I'm perfectly fine if its just ~3 years before my character is maxed. Mind without playing 24/7.
Thats a bit extreme. I sometimes like to switch characters. I'm perfectly fine if its just ~3 years before my character is maxed. Mind without playing 24/7.
lol .. how about 3 weeks? I don't want a single game sucks up all my free time.
I wish there was even one decent MMO where i could play 8 hours a
day and not max my character in 10+ years. All these 3-month-MMOs they
tend to release nowadays are not worth my time and money.
Thats a bit extreme. I sometimes like to switch characters. I'm perfectly fine if its just ~3 years before my character is maxed. Mind without playing 24/7.
If you scroll up a bit you can see my clarification on this matter.
TSW used to be a game I played because it was a harder MMO but about a year ago they streamlined it . I was going through Transylvania at the time which was quite challenging but after the changes it was pretty easy . I've tried to go back to it a couple of times but I lost heart with it .
What parts of an MMO do you believe should be challenging? The one-and-done levelling content or the repeatable end-game activities?
IMO MMO levelling content shouldn't be any real barrier or speed bump to its end-game. Of course it should be interesting enough so there needs to be at least some challenge to it or at least an immersive story behind it.
If I want challenging RPG character progression I'm going to go play a single-player game. If I want challenging group content then that's what I expect from an MMO.
And yes I need more Mordechai Redmoon in my life even though he makes my esper cry.
If I want challenging RPG character progression I'm going to go play a single-player game. If I want challenging group content then that's what I expect from an MMO.
That is a false dilemma. There is no reason why one cannot have both in a MMO, particularly it is easy to put in a difficulty slide for single player content.
What parts of an MMO do you believe should be challenging? The one-and-done levelling content or the repeatable end-game activities?
One of the main flaws in current MMO genre is the fact that you can even ask this question. There shouldn't be 'leveling content' or 'end-game activities'. If i want to play an MMO i expect challenging group content, but that doesn't mean soloable content should be any easier.
I wish there was even one decent MMO where i could play 8 hours a day and not max my character in 10+ years. All these 3-month-MMOs they tend to release nowadays are not worth my time and money.
Why even develop games your players complete in less time than it takes to make new content?
I wished that as well until I became an adult with interests outside of MMORPGs.
I have found those who scream "I'M AN ADULT!" are usually the least adult, trying to "sound mature" instead if "being mature."
goboygo said:
He's talking about a game that's really hard for EVERYONE, which forces group play, interactions, crafting and trade.
High difficulty does not force people to group play, it forces people to leave the game entirely...
This goes both ways. If the dungeons are too hard then you won't be able to find a dungeon group outside of your guild. Players become so picky and elite and for good reason. I have literally run through GW2 dungeons and fractals to fail at least 20 times. These things are hard and if you don't have a really good group you can just hang it up. This usually results in cookie cutter builds and only one style of group will ever finish the dungeon. I don't mind difficulty but when they force a meta upon the players and make it so you only have 1 viable build per class for dungeons. Then it has failed.
Besides, does EVERY game HAVE to be for EVERYONE? Well... except for those players seeking an actual online experience with many other players, instead of a 30 minute time filler.
Comments
Obviously no one will play 8 hour a day regularly, and playing same games for 10 years is not that common either. What i meant is mmos should have much more longevity and/or replay value than what we have gotten lately, and no one should be able to reach a point where there is nothing to do to improve his/her character (unless ofc he/she playes 8+ hours a day and lives several hundreds of years).
Other way to say it would be calling it 'an open ended mmo', the kind of game with no 'end game' or 'the whole game is an end game'. Gameplay should be hard enough to motivate a player to improve his/her character's skills/gear/etc. constantly and developers shouldn't worry about their players hitting a brick wall every now and then as long as they make sure players always have a way to get past of it by improving their characters.
This 'everyone can see everything in no time without even trying' mentality has to stop. When developers are ahead of their players and can create new content faster than what players consume, there will always be new unseen content for everyone, no matter if you play an hour a week or several hours a day.
Forgetting about the social perception of the game, Actually playing the content is F****** hard.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Mobs have more HP?
Bosses can one shot you?
Levelling takes ages?
Stupid ass grinding?
Oh yea sorry, since I died I'm going to delete this character and make a new one good luck finding a new group member, maybe I'll play with the monitor off this time as well, you know just to make it harder. Gimp yourself because game designers can't do difficulty.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/They won't pay for large MMO development costs.
I see no reason to stay if the game is faceroll.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
There is much larger player base with different taste, there is no reason why they should cater to you.
The only two (upcoming) games which want to bring back that kind of tough gameplay where youll need a group are Saga of Lucimia and Pantheon. Granted ive yet to actually see any actual challenge in the games demonstrations but theyre both still very early in development.
I havent read that thread about solo MMOs simply because I have no interest in them. I certainly want an MMO to allow some soloing. Being forced to group always is also too strict. There should be easier mobs in the open land, also some solo questlines, such as boots of speed (dont remember their exact name but there was a questline like that in Vanguard and apparently also previously in EQ). But the really interesting parts of the game should be grouping.
I wouldnt mind a special class just for solists. Maybe the Paladin. Can progress through easier dungeons, just about 20 times slower than a group. Can kill easier named mobs, just that it takes ages. That would be OK in my opinion. If thats your thing, sure, go for it. Still they shouldnt be really efficient at soloing, just that it should be possible. But for example a necromancer class that can just waltz through dungeons ? Not cool.
I would also be OK if there was some classes that are not able to solo much. Maybe the Fighter, a tank without magic that just cant do anything but stand next to a mob and hit it, but excells in group as a top dps aside from being a tank. Or a Sorcerer, a typical glas cannon that doesnt get a single feature for kiting by themselves and really needs the protection of a group. The Priest that doesnt have much defense or damage at all, but excells at healing and buffing. Classes those player can choose that dont want to solo, ever, but have especially good group performance.
Thats a bit extreme. I sometimes like to switch characters. I'm perfectly fine if its just ~3 years before my character is maxed. Mind without playing 24/7.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Plus, for f2p games, if you are not a whale, why would a dev care? In a B2P game, you already paid for the box, and again, why would they care?
IMO MMO levelling content shouldn't be any real barrier or speed bump to its end-game. Of course it should be interesting enough so there needs to be at least some challenge to it or at least an immersive story behind it.
If I want challenging RPG character progression I'm going to go play a single-player game. If I want challenging group content then that's what I expect from an MMO.
And yes I need more Mordechai Redmoon in my life even though he makes my esper cry.
VG
Tough titties Gdemani. Go play an easier game.
VG