Originally posted by duggo Originally posted by azhrarn @Duggo & Jodokai Kinda funny, but you won't find a single post by me trashing the pre-CU game. Why? ... There. You're not going to be able to lump everyone into your case this time. I'm sorry. I'm not the only exception. Wow. Can you believe that it actually isn't always all about you, Azh? I agree that the claim of 99% is exaggeration, but the trend is prevalent enough to make me consider that all the bitching and moaning flooding this forum isn't necessarily what meets the eye. And where I would once read someone's scathing editorial on the state of affairs at SOE and say, "right on, I totally relate," now I don't know if I can really relate at all or even want to. It now seems to me that people want to hate SOE and SWG. I don't. I want to enjoy the game. I want there to be a resolution that makes me say, "ok, cool, now I can pick up where I left off," or "good enough, now I can at least have fun again." But it appears that the people posting a lot of the hate really don't want any sort of resolution at all, they just want a whipping boy that they can gang up on and sling stones and arrows at.That's just what I'm seeing, and it doesn't sit well with me. -d
/sarcasm on
You mean I'm not the center of the universe? Oh pooh! Die, heathen.
/sarcasm off
Duggo, I think there's a few very good reasons that so many people "want to hate" now rather than "want to love, but are very upset". I used to BE one of those who wanted to love, and used my posting time to try to help people find ways to work around the mess we were dealt. And once upon a time I DID love. And I really and truely believe that I am not much different in the way I see things than a lot of the people who hang out here and post.
Truthfully, while I would be overwhelmed with sweat to see a satisfactory resolution to all of this, I no longer believe that it is a possibility. I am deeply convinced, against my wishes, that SOE and LA have not just made a few repealable missteps that they could be led to rectify, but that they have abandoned all logic and touch with their customer base and cannot be led, enticed or forced by any means to providing a product/service that is even remotely worth paying for.
I am completely convinced by their actions and comments alone (disregarding all other sources that are not SOE or LA) that they are completely aware that what they are doing is not just not meeting the baseline of fun, but that they are also, in complete knowledge of the fact, are continuing to operate in more or less the same manner, if not a worse one. And I am also completely certain that they believe that no matter how they behave or how bad their product/service becomes, that they will be permitted by the market to continue to do this. In short, they operate under the assumption that if they take a dump in a box with a star wars logo on it, slap a pricetag on that box and put it on store shelves, that we will buy it.
I'm deeply sorry that this doesn't sir well with you. It's taken months for me to come to finally accept this view myself, though now that I have, I don't really know how it was that it took me so long to see this. So, in part, my anger is at having been self-decieved, when so many people tried to tell me what I can now see very clearly. And to be pathetically frank, if I had even a tiny shred of hope that SOE and LA might mend their business practices and handle SWG as a service/product worth paying for rather than as some testbed for their coding experiments, I wouldn't be so amazingly hateful toward them.
But the cold, ugly truth of the matter is, they made this bed they're currently tangled in, one customer at a time, with utter disregard for the possibility that this might come back to bite them in the ass. People are remarkably difficult to rouse off their asses into the kind of backlash that SOE is currently suffering. Most people, once having been gypped, will wander off quietly and just not buy again. It takes a lot of work to make them stand up and roar this way, and even more work to KEEP them hunting for sticks, stones, rotten fruit and pitchforks to pursue this kind of thing. And they just keep doing it.
So this is why you see what you see. And it IS disturbing, even when you find yourself in the angry mob, waving a pitchfork. But then, when every time you start to thinking about laying down that pitchfork the 'monster' comes back and throws another little girl down the well... well you get the point.
Why would they throw the little girl down the well? wouldn't they need to get water later? But there is a lot of emotion for this game, there is no denying that. Simple truth is no one really seems to have a firm plan as to were the game is going, I don't even know if the Devs have one, but it is very confusing.
In understanding peoples feelings for this game and how they feel, for the most part most of the people who are kinda jaded from what has happen in this game, are more angry at the Devs and SOE, LA. I for one do enjoy the game, but I would never endorse a game to another person due to the fact that I have no control over it, and I don't know what another person enjoys and is will to put up with.
If you are a realist and what I mean by that, a person who understands what all companies do and will do in order to try to generate more income, you then will have a firm grasp that chances are you are gonna get screwed to a certain point. It happens all the time, you go fill your car or truck up at the petrol or gas station, or you go out and buy a brand new pair of sneakers, or you pay your taxes etc.... etc..., you are always getting screwed in everything.
So in short, people react to things differently, and I think that is a good thing.
Whannnnn Whannnnn dat is the sound of 20 year old babies
Oh and trashing a game and other people for playing it is very immature, I do not disrespect or put other people down for playing a game. So please lets try and stay civil and maintian atleast a minimal amount of maturity. Your welcome
"HEHEHEHEHE, you touched me, HEHEHEHEHE, me like you, you like me, lets get together and rub are feet".
Whannnnn Whannnnn dat is the sound of 20 year old babies
/sarcasm on You mean I'm not the center of the universe? Oh pooh! Die, heathen. /sarcasm off .... So this is why you see what you see. And it IS disturbing, even when you find yourself in the angry mob, waving a pitchfork. But then, when every time you start to thinking about laying down that pitchfork the 'monster' comes back and throws another little girl down the well... well you get the point.
Fair enough and agreeable.
My point is, as much as I'd like to take up a pitchfork alongside everyone else -- I think people have every justifiable reason to be upset with the game and company -- the fact that there are people who have done nothing but spew venom -- even now "pining" for days of the game that years ago they were comparing to things they flushed down their toilet -- not only prevents me from doing this for desire not to be associated with that type of person, but makes it difficult for me to even take the angry mob, as a group, seriously.
I don't mean it to sound like I'm pointing fingers at people and calling out, "Faker!" but in my reaction to what I've seen reading through some of the history of the forum, perhaps that's how it appeared.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by duggo Originally posted by azhrarn /sarcasm on You mean I'm not the center of the universe? Oh pooh! Die, heathen. /sarcasm off .... So this is why you see what you see. And it IS disturbing, even when you find yourself in the angry mob, waving a pitchfork. But then, when every time you start to thinking about laying down that pitchfork the 'monster' comes back and throws another little girl down the well... well you get the point.Fair enough and agreeable. My point is, as much as I'd like to take up a pitchfork alongside everyone else -- I think people have every justifiable reason to be upset with the game and company -- the fact that there are people who have done nothing but spew venom -- even now "pining" for days of the game that years ago they were comparing to things they flushed down their toilet -- not only prevents me from doing this for desire not to be associated with that type of person, but makes it difficult for me to even take the angry mob, as a group, seriously. I don't mean it to sound like I'm pointing fingers at people and calling out, "Faker!" but in my reaction to what I've seen reading through some of the history of the forum, perhaps that's how it appeared. -d
Honestly, I don't see why you should even consider "joining the mob" if you don't feel the need to on your own steam so to speak. Singly or as a group, it is always your personal opinion of view that it comes down to. You always have to judge things yourself, on the criteria only you can assign importance to.
While some of us might take some personal feelings of hurt or insult from a judgement you make, that really shouldn't make that judgement any less valid, at least to and for you. If one of us doesn't understand that you in all reality have very valid basis for your judgements, be they positive or negative, that is that individual's problem, and not your own. In short, make up your mind, get behind your convictions, and if we don't like it, well, fuck it, you're not here to agree with us, please us or humor us. You're here to discuss what you wish to discuss about our common interest- SWG.
All *I* ask is that you pull no punches, leave out the sugar, and be honest and try to remain respectful while you do it. I know that some of this might irritate some of us, but we do our fair share of that too, so what's good enough for one is good enough for all.
Honestly, I don't see why you should even consider "joining the mob" if you don't feel the need to on your own steam so to speak. Singly or as a group, it is always your personal opinion of view that it comes down to. You always have to judge things yourself, on the criteria only you can assign importance to. While some of us might take some personal feelings of hurt or insult from a judgement you make, that really shouldn't make that judgement any less valid, at least to and for you. If one of us doesn't understand that you in all reality have very valid basis for your judgements, be they positive or negative, that is that individual's problem, and not your own. In short, make up your mind, get behind your convictions, and if we don't like it, well, fuck it, you're not here to agree with us, please us or humor us. You're here to discuss what you wish to discuss about our common interest- SWG. All *I* ask is that you pull no punches, leave out the sugar, and be honest and try to remain respectful while you do it. I know that some of this might irritate some of us, but we do our fair share of that too, so what's good enough for one is good enough for all. There.
Point taken.
The reason I would want to "join the mob" is because I believe "the larger the voice, the louder the message." But if the only common message the group can muster is that, "SOE sucks. Always has, always will. I want SWG dead ASAP for what they did to us." Well, there really isn't any point to joining a movement towards a dead end, is there? And if this is the common voice in the forum since launch, then the sillyness is just painfully apparent.
Other than that, happy to shoot the SWG related bull, without pulling punches
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by duggo Point taken. The reason I would want to "join the mob" is because I believe "the larger the voice, the louder the message." But if the only common message the group can muster is that, "SOE sucks. Always has, always will. I want SWG dead ASAP for what they did to us." Well, there really isn't any point to joining a movement towards a dead end, is there? And if this is the common voice in the forum since launch, then the sillyness is just painfully apparent. Other than that, happy to shoot the SWG related bull, without pulling punches -d
I can't actually say we are in any real disagreement on any of this. I've always contended that at one point in time, they actually were selling something I was all too happy to buy. While they have NEVER been particularly good with the customer servicing and I don't think that they have ever had even a basic grasp of version control, I was for a time happy enough that I could forgive those things. I'm safely sure enough to say that I was in the majority on that. I'm also confident enough to say that some of the people using the broader brushes while painting SOE black (yet somehow managing to miss getting that black paint on LA) forget a little too easily where they stood during days we paint as halcyon now. I may have been in a minority when it comes to my having been as in love with that system when I played it as I am in memory of it. It's hard to say, because those of us who WERE happy were too busy playing to post very much at that time. And really, a lot of us weren't the "squeaky wheel" variety of customer. Not unless we felt VERY threatened by a proposed change or were hurt badly by some bug to what we did.
I hear the mob and I hear more than one message. I hear themes. Some of them I feel are constructive, while others aren't. Many of the voices don't acknowledge any other concern in the universe but their own. Many others try to encompass the fact that it takes all types and that more than one concern or style of play needs to be met or adressed. The only real unifying factors are that we all loved Star Wars and that we are all angry about it. And truthfully, I think even the most selfish, destructive members of the mob are at least partially justified, no matter how petty and unimpressive they may sound to me. It takes all types. I'm not part of the mob because it's a big thing. I'm here because I feel I need to be, if not for what might be accomplished from all of this then for the feeling that I didn't just enable something I hated by sitting down and shutting up when opening my mouth and standing up carried even the vague possibility of changing something for the better for someone else, even now when for me it's over. It's not even vaguely heroic or selfless. I have a stake in this because it effects what my future options will be as well.
If you have something you feel the need to accomplish by using the mob's voice, then by all means, join it. If you don't feel it will help what you feel is important, then don't. For me, I don't much care if people think I'm foolish or pathetic or whatever for taking a stand, or care if some of the people who are using a common 'voice' with me make me look less spiffy by association. I don't fool myself to think that I'm any better or worse than anyone else in this boat, because when it boils down to it, we're ALL either gamer geeks or Star Wars nerds or both, and that's good enough for me. If I can publicly admit to thinking that Luke Skywalker was HAWT in Return of the Jedi, I can share my personal crusade with AdmRiker and have decent debates with Obraik.
But that's just me, center of my own universe talking. And by now, you already know I love the sound of my own voice. Tee hee.
Point taken. The reason I would want to "join the mob" is because I believe "the larger the voice, the louder the message." But if the only common message the group can muster is that, "SOE sucks. Always has, always will. I want SWG dead ASAP for what they did to us." Well, there really isn't any point to joining a movement towards a dead end, is there? And if this is the common voice in the forum since launch, then the sillyness is just painfully apparent. Other than that, happy to shoot the SWG related bull, without pulling punches -d
I can't actually say we are in any real disagreement on any of this. I've always contended that at one point in time, they actually were selling something I was all too happy to buy. While they have NEVER been particularly good with the customer servicing and I don't think that they have ever had even a basic grasp of version control, I was for a time happy enough that I could forgive those things. I'm safely sure enough to say that I was in the majority on that. I'm also confident enough to say that some of the people using the broader brushes while painting SOE black (yet somehow managing to miss getting that black paint on LA) forget a little too easily where they stood during days we paint as halcyon now. I may have been in a minority when it comes to my having been as in love with that system when I played it as I am in memory of it. It's hard to say, because those of us who WERE happy were too busy playing to post very much at that time. And really, a lot of us weren't the "squeaky wheel" variety of customer. Not unless we felt VERY threatened by a proposed change or were hurt badly by some bug to what we did.
I hear the mob and I hear more than one message. I hear themes. Some of them I feel are constructive, while others aren't. Many of the voices don't acknowledge any other concern in the universe but their own. Many others try to encompass the fact that it takes all types and that more than one concern or style of play needs to be met or adressed. The only real unifying factors are that we all loved Star Wars and that we are all angry about it. And truthfully, I think even the most selfish, destructive members of the mob are at least partially justified, no matter how petty and unimpressive they may sound to me. It takes all types. I'm not part of the mob because it's a big thing. I'm here because I feel I need to be, if not for what might be accomplished from all of this then for the feeling that I didn't just enable something I hated by sitting down and shutting up when opening my mouth and standing up carried even the vague possibility of changing something for the better for someone else, even now when for me it's over. It's not even vaguely heroic or selfless. I have a stake in this because it effects what my future options will be as well.
If you have something you feel the need to accomplish by using the mob's voice, then by all means, join it. If you don't feel it will help what you feel is important, then don't. For me, I don't much care if people think I'm foolish or pathetic or whatever for taking a stand, or care if some of the people who are using a common 'voice' with me make me look less spiffy by association. I don't fool myself to think that I'm any better or worse than anyone else in this boat, because when it boils down to it, we're ALL either gamer geeks or Star Wars nerds or both, and that's good enough for me. If I can publicly admit to thinking that Luke Skywalker was HAWT in Return of the Jedi, I can share my personal crusade with AdmRiker and have decent debates with Obraik.
But that's just me, center of my own universe talking. And by now, you already know I love the sound of my own voice. Tee hee.
There is no more us verses them, by reading the red posts yesterday we can see clearly no matter what they are moving forward in the direction they intend on going. The arrogance of the powers that be there wanted to achieve a historical happening which at the 4 month mark of nge did not go as intended.
Reguardless of lack of forsight, finished product release of expansion then this, the fact they did it anyway will have long term consequnces for their company as a whole.. There will also be short term consequnces for all other mmorpgs out there as well as new ones coming out. There long term ablity to sway customers to their offerings will be a hard road to tow given all the x swg folks with long memories of what they did to their game, will have a direct affect on no matter how wonderful there next game will be , there will be tons of skeptisim and bad press. With other companies x swg folks that use to do the 3 / 6 month pre pay will most likely think long and hard about a long term commitment to any game given what they expearinced at soe. The second part new up coming mmorpgs might experaince is the lack of ability x swg folks or even other long term gamers will not have the tolerance to deal with sloppiness for long term play knowing full well it takes a while to get the kinks out. So in answer to who wins, not sure it's a stalemate, if we the players learned anything then maybe we will be more warry of the next offering that sounds to good to be true and the release is sloppy........
I have always say that not matter how much SWG community post in the forum SOE still is going to keep doing what ever they have on their scope. Smed already say no Rollback, No CH, No FRS and he seens preatty strong on this. So the SWG forum should be close, why u want to have a forum if the costumer ideas are going to be push to the side to do whatever they think is the right thing to do. Thats why SWG is on the stated it is at the moment Death and with no chance of revamp at least other company takes over that mess SOE has provide to the paying costumer.
I am not asking you to read admriker's posts. I am not asking you to respect them as respect is an individual's choice. What I was saying is that he bring up points. Like you mentioned yourself - fotm. Sure there is a lot of repetitive rhetoric here. Hell, as of late, I have cut my posts down because I believe I have stated what I thought and only jump in on points that I think need to be made.
I will be the first to admit that its a shark frenzy as of late. Misinformation. disinformation, trolls and at some points - mob mentatility. Facts are lost, and our cause is as well when we go off on a tangent that is entirely wrong. Yes, admriker has said quite a lot of the same things in the past. But again, the points he brings up in posts are still points. Those FOTMS are still points and to be honest - while the well read may know his arguments and current arsenal - many many more are coming here everyday who have not. They have been feeding on the criticism lite information from SWG's forum. Threads come and go and Good god do I wish there were stickies and a search feature on this site. He brings up his stuff, debate ensues - points are proven or disproven by other posters and people walk away with more information and ideas. You need news sources and as of late - right or wrong - he has provided just that. And look at what events unfolded due to this recent wave of rumor. We now know more than ever the future plans of SWG. SOE had to drop its curtains and come out to talk. Had they done this all the while - there may may well have been a minority resistance as dialogue effects change.
It is highly unfair to generalize anyone here. The use of %'s and the word always never works. Crying wolf may make you a few skeptics but it does not make you wrong on real issues if they stand to be just that. This forum has people on both sides and we keep each other in check. Obraik keeps his level and civil head in his posts on the defense of the current game as Erillion once did. Az is as fair minded of a critic as one could get in this place. We have our extremes too. They know who they are. When its redundant banter - I bet you a prenerf mellon that someone calls them on it within 5 posts. The readers here hear both sides and judge for themselves. I like to think that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
In the end, this is off thread and I apologize to the OP. ChrisCao and Helios did indeed deal a deathblow to certain communities. Their actions are what we should be discussing. They are the ones who are on trial so to speak. Their vision of the game is quite unlike anything we had hoped for or in my opinion the game community asked for. Those who remain may wish it to be just so and in the end - they stayed and should get just that. However, I will still be here though until 1. there is a true SWG replacement in my life and 2. the industry truly learns not to follow the deceptive practices and manner of contempt that SOE has treated its customer base to.
I miss Erillion. I wish I could hear what he has to say about what Chriscao and Helios (AND the others) dropped on the community on Friday. I think it would be more than interesting reading. He always had a perspective that encompassed things I didn't enjoy and made them... well... MATTER more to me, even if they weren't things I wanted to hear.
Originally posted by duggo In a nutshell.. "Everyone who bitches about the nge hated SWG before waaa waaaaa" -d
I couldn't be further from your statement. My friends loved this game before it was hobbled by the CU and lobotomized by the nge. Over 2000 of our players on our forums loved the pre-cu game, Half tolerated the CU. and 3 like the nge. over 2000 people.. now 3 like the changes and 4 still play because they can't give it up.
Sure, the people standing against $OE may have different reasons for doing so. Quite frankly, I quit after the CU, came back and then quit days before the nge was leaked. I hated the CU enough to cut loose twice. I played the nge and was proven wrong when I said "Well, the game can't get any worse"
And that STILL doesn't invalidate the fact that the nge is just plain horrible.
AND to add...
It now seems to me that people want to hate SOE and SWG. I don't. I want to enjoy the game. I want there to be a resolution that makes me say, "ok, cool, now I can pick up where I left off," or "good enough, now I can at least have fun again." But it appears that the people posting a lot of the hate really don't want any sort of resolution at all, they just want a whipping boy that they can gang up on and sling stones and arrows at.
I want to enjoy the game too.. but that TOOK THAT GAME AWAY. They won't give it back. ALL that is left is hating $OE and trying to plot their downfall.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
To summarize... "Allow me to interrupt my normal parade of childish, pointless quips as I proceed to demonstrate a sad little construct I use to rationalize why my opinion is the only one that matters. And now back to what you typically read from me: waaaah! Waaaaah! CU killed my puppy and NGE stole my soul! Waaaah!" [gad, flames are lame]
It now seems to me that people want to hate SOE and SWG. I don't. I want to enjoy the game. I want there to be a resolution that makes me say, "ok, cool, now I can pick up where I left off," or "good enough, now I can at least have fun again." But it appears that the people posting a lot of the hate really don't want any sort of resolution at all, they just want a whipping boy that they can gang up on and sling stones and arrows at.
I want to enjoy the game too.. but that TOOK THAT GAME AWAY. They won't give it back.ALL that is left is hating $OE and trying to plot their downfall.
This is why you can't be taken seriously, and if they can't take you seriously why should they take your complaints seriously? And then you sit there, suck your thumb and wonder why they won't listen to you.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Originally posted by kefkah I am not asking you to read admriker's posts. I am not asking you to respect them as respect is an individual's choice. What I was saying is that he bring up points. Like you mentioned yourself - fotm. Sure there is a lot of repetitive rhetoric here. Hell, as of late, I have cut my posts down because I believe I have stated what I thought and only jump in on points that I think need to be made. I will be the first to admit that its a shark frenzy as of late. Misinformation. disinformation, trolls and at some points - mob mentatility. Facts are lost, and our cause is as well when we go off on a tangent that is entirely wrong. Yes, admriker has said quite a lot of the same things in the past. But again, the points he brings up in posts are still points. Those FOTMS are still points and to be honest - while the well read may know his arguments and current arsenal - many many more are coming here everyday who have not. They have been feeding on the criticism lite information from SWG's forum. Threads come and go and Good god do I wish there were stickies and a search feature on this site. He brings up his stuff, debate ensues - points are proven or disproven by other posters and people walk away with more information and ideas. You need news sources and as of late - right or wrong - he has provided just that. And look at what events unfolded due to this recent wave of rumor. We now know more than ever the future plans of SWG. SOE had to drop its curtains and come out to talk. Had they done this all the while - there may may well have been a minority resistance as dialogue effects change. It is highly unfair to generalize anyone here. The use of %'s and the word always never works. Crying wolf may make you a few skeptics but it does not make you wrong on real issues if they stand to be just that. This forum has people on both sides and we keep each other in check. Obraik keeps his level and civil head in his posts on the defense of the current game as Erillion once did. Az is as fair minded of a critic as one could get in this place. We have our extremes too. They know who they are. When its redundant banter - I bet you a prenerf mellon that someone calls them on it within 5 posts. The readers here hear both sides and judge for themselves. I like to think that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. In the end, this is off thread and I apologize to the OP. ChrisCao and Helios did indeed deal a deathblow to certain communities. Their actions are what we should be discussing. They are the ones who are on trial so to speak. Their vision of the game is quite unlike anything we had hoped for or in my opinion the game community asked for. Those who remain may wish it to be just so and in the end - they stayed and should get just that. However, I will still be here though until 1. there is a true SWG replacement in my life and 2. the industry truly learns not to follow the deceptive practices and manner of contempt that SOE has treated its customer base to.
I hear what you're saying, and the only idea in your post that I'll disagree with is that while you see posters like admriker raising forum awareness by clinging onto any topical point to carry their crusade against their company of choice, I see posters like him actually decreasing industry sensitivity to playerbase complaints. The constant stream of hate just becomes a drone of negativity that developers learn to tune out. Then when real uproars come up, like the playerbases outrage at the NGE changes the minute it hit TC, they just don't take the voices of concern seriously. "Oh, don't mind them. They complain about everything but always keep on playing. Go ahead and push it through." Then they scratch their heads wondering why there were no apparent warning signs for this iceburg they just hit.
These "players" who seem to have no purpose other than to pull the game down are at least partly responsible for the developers perceived arrogance when ignoring player concerns. And unless players with legitimate complaints and concerns for the direction of the game find a way to differentiate and segregate themselves from these muckrakers they're going to be ignored right along with them.
Apologies for hijacking the thread.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Helios_SOE made an unprecedented post last night, yes, on a Sunday evening, to clarify his point on virtual worlds. I'm sure the Sony accounting department registered a new high number of cancellations, for the population still left in the game.
I married a programmer, so I can read through this beaners double-speak. Basically, in translation, it says "oops", don't cancel, we'll be keeping *wink* all the things you love in the game.
Helios Titan Speaks:
"So I made a comment about SWG moving away from being mostly a world simulation towards being more of a game. As there may have been some misunderstanding, I'll take a minute to clarify.
In any simulation the point is to model the real thing as close as possible in an effort to bring the experience to life. This generally only works well if the simulation is extremely accurate. A world simulation is one of the most complex kind of simulations you could think of building, involving literally billions of variables, knobs and switches that all interconnect in some harmonious manner.
Of course, an extremely accurate world simulation is not only beyond the capacity of a team of game developers to create but is also beyond the processing power of any computers available on the free market today. As such, when game developers create world "simulations" they already have to allow for a large number of inconsistencies (light sabers in SWG have never carried the danger of chopping off a limb, for instance).
World simulations are difficult to maintain because of their inherent lack of precision - there are no truly self governing systems. In addition, while extremely accurate world simulations may not be feasible with today's technology, world simulations with a dizzying number of rules, causes and effects certainly are. Such world simulation games typically suffer from an extreme learning curve and tend to foster unnatural and repetitive game play. I'm not saying that such undesireable gameplay is the result of the world simulation itself - no - it is instead a direct result of our inability to create extremely accurate world simulations. Everything computers do has a pattern to it, and humans have an innate ability to master patterns in the most efficient way possible. Only nature itself is truly random.
As you make more and more provisions for the lack of accuracy in your simulation you naturally gravitate towards a more pliable and "game-y" environment. A "simulation" and a "game" are in essence the same thing, only with varying degrees of accuracy.
This shift away from "simulation" and towards "game" can happen "orderly" as part of a conscious decision making process or it can happen "chaotically" as a side-effect of making provisions for an inaccurate simulation.
That being said, while we may have made a conscious decision to put more "game" into SWG, we are still endeavoring to provide an exciting Star Wars fantasy set in a persistent state world. Persistent state worlds do not necessarily imply "simulation", but they do imply things like community, a virtual society, an economy and other such things we gave grown to enjoy about SWG. "
-Helios Titan -Lead Systems Designer, SWG "I find your lack of faith...disturbing."
Originally posted by duggo This is why you can't be taken seriously, and if they can't take you seriously why should they take your complaints seriously? And then you sit there, suck your thumb and wonder why they won't listen to you. -d
I like the cut of your jib sir. ^_^
While I find Shayde's posts particularly comical, there are those that go a bit too far.
As Az said, LA/SOE have made their beds. They require any assistance bringing about their demise. Just sit back and enjoy the show. No need to stress yourselves out.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by Athela Helios_SOE made an unprecedented post last night, yes, on a Sunday evening, to clarify his point on virtual worlds. I'm sure the Sony accounting department registered a new high number of cancellations, for the population still left in the game. I married a programmer, so I can read through this beaners double-speak. Basically, in translation, it says "oops", don't cancel, we'll be keeping *wink* all the things you love in the game. Helios Titan Speaks:
"So I made a comment about SWG moving away from being mostly a world simulation towards being more of a game. As there may have been some misunderstanding, I'll take a minute to clarify. In any simulation the point is to model the real thing as close as possible in an effort to bring the experience to life. This generally only works well if the simulation is extremely accurate. A world simulation is one of the most complex kind of simulations you could think of building, involving literally billions of variables, knobs and switches that all interconnect in some harmonious manner. Of course, an extremely accurate world simulation is not only beyond the capacity of a team of game developers to create but is also beyond the processing power of any computers available on the free market today. As such, when game developers create world "simulations" they already have to allow for a large number of inconsistencies (light sabers in SWG have never carried the danger of chopping off a limb, for instance). World simulations are difficult to maintain because of their inherent lack of precision - there are no truly self governing systems. In addition, while extremely accurate world simulations may not be feasible with today's technology, world simulations with a dizzying number of rules, causes and effects certainly are. Such world simulation games typically suffer from an extreme learning curve and tend to foster unnatural and repetitive game play. I'm not saying that such undesireable gameplay is the result of the world simulation itself - no - it is instead a direct result of our inability to create extremely accurate world simulations. Everything computers do has a pattern to it, and humans have an innate ability to master patterns in the most efficient way possible. Only nature itself is truly random. As you make more and more provisions for the lack of accuracy in your simulation you naturally gravitate towards a more pliable and "game-y" environment. A "simulation" and a "game" are in essence the same thing, only with varying degrees of accuracy. This shift away from "simulation" and towards "game" can happen "orderly" as part of a conscious decision making process or it can happen "chaotically" as a side-effect of making provisions for an inaccurate simulation. That being said, while we may have made a conscious decision to put more "game" into SWG, we are still endeavoring to provide an exciting Star Wars fantasy set in a persistent state world. Persistent state worlds do not necessarily imply "simulation", but they do imply things like community, a virtual society, an economy and other such things we gave grown to enjoy about SWG. " -Helios Titan -Lead Systems Designer, SWG "I find your lack of faith...disturbing." 03-26-2006 07:41 PM
This one deserves its own thread - definately not to be lost in the shuffle! Good find, Athela. Oops - just started on the Az thread on the matter. Never mind the mention of starting a thread then. Carry on.
What I find most amazing of all is that, even though they acknowledge that their current direction with this game has failed, they still swear by it, thinking that dumbing down this game into a MMOFPS is gonna save it from The Zapper.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by duncan_922 What I find most amazing of all is that, even though they acknowledge that their current direction with this game has failed, they still swear by it, thinking that dumbing down this game into a MMOFPS is gonna save it from The Zapper.
Maybe they will pull a shadowbane and anarchy online and go free with limited access to save it from the zapper!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by duncan_922 What I find most amazing of all is that, even though they acknowledge that their current direction with this game has failed, they still swear by it, thinking that dumbing down this game into a MMOFPS is gonna save it from The Zapper.
Maybe they will pull a shadowbane and anarchy online and go free with limited access to save it from the zapper!
Morning, Fad. Yeah, I'd have to say that would be a sensible course of action for them at this point. It has worked VERY well for FunCom with AO. SOE would probably do very well to do the same with both SWG and MxO. Neither game is offering enough to keep a practical number of paying subs at this point in time and "free" playerbases are a good selling ground for payed subscriptions.
Yeah, players still bitch, but there's only so pissed you can get at someone who's letting you play for "free".
I say "free" because being stuck looking at Fanta billboards is a form of payment LOL...
Maybe they will pull a shadowbane and anarchy online and go free with limited access to save it from the zapper!
Its funny you should say that because SOE just did this exact thing with Planetside. One can only wonder if some of their other craptastic albatrosses like MXO and SWG aren't far behind.
Comments
/sarcasm on
You mean I'm not the center of the universe? Oh pooh! Die, heathen.
/sarcasm off
Duggo, I think there's a few very good reasons that so many people "want to hate" now rather than "want to love, but are very upset". I used to BE one of those who wanted to love, and used my posting time to try to help people find ways to work around the mess we were dealt. And once upon a time I DID love. And I really and truely believe that I am not much different in the way I see things than a lot of the people who hang out here and post.
Truthfully, while I would be overwhelmed with sweat to see a satisfactory resolution to all of this, I no longer believe that it is a possibility. I am deeply convinced, against my wishes, that SOE and LA have not just made a few repealable missteps that they could be led to rectify, but that they have abandoned all logic and touch with their customer base and cannot be led, enticed or forced by any means to providing a product/service that is even remotely worth paying for.
I am completely convinced by their actions and comments alone (disregarding all other sources that are not SOE or LA) that they are completely aware that what they are doing is not just not meeting the baseline of fun, but that they are also, in complete knowledge of the fact, are continuing to operate in more or less the same manner, if not a worse one. And I am also completely certain that they believe that no matter how they behave or how bad their product/service becomes, that they will be permitted by the market to continue to do this. In short, they operate under the assumption that if they take a dump in a box with a star wars logo on it, slap a pricetag on that box and put it on store shelves, that we will buy it.
I'm deeply sorry that this doesn't sir well with you. It's taken months for me to come to finally accept this view myself, though now that I have, I don't really know how it was that it took me so long to see this. So, in part, my anger is at having been self-decieved, when so many people tried to tell me what I can now see very clearly. And to be pathetically frank, if I had even a tiny shred of hope that SOE and LA might mend their business practices and handle SWG as a service/product worth paying for rather than as some testbed for their coding experiments, I wouldn't be so amazingly hateful toward them.
But the cold, ugly truth of the matter is, they made this bed they're currently tangled in, one customer at a time, with utter disregard for the possibility that this might come back to bite them in the ass. People are remarkably difficult to rouse off their asses into the kind of backlash that SOE is currently suffering. Most people, once having been gypped, will wander off quietly and just not buy again. It takes a lot of work to make them stand up and roar this way, and even more work to KEEP them hunting for sticks, stones, rotten fruit and pitchforks to pursue this kind of thing. And they just keep doing it.
So this is why you see what you see. And it IS disturbing, even when you find yourself in the angry mob, waving a pitchfork. But then, when every time you start to thinking about laying down that pitchfork the 'monster' comes back and throws another little girl down the well... well you get the point.
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Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Why would they throw the little girl down the well? wouldn't they need to get water later? But there is a lot of emotion for this game, there is no denying that. Simple truth is no one really seems to have a firm plan as to were the game is going, I don't even know if the Devs have one, but it is very confusing.
In understanding peoples feelings for this game and how they feel, for the most part most of the people who are kinda jaded from what has happen in this game, are more angry at the Devs and SOE, LA. I for one do enjoy the game, but I would never endorse a game to another person due to the fact that I have no control over it, and I don't know what another person enjoys and is will to put up with.
If you are a realist and what I mean by that, a person who understands what all companies do and will do in order to try to generate more income, you then will have a firm grasp that chances are you are gonna get screwed to a certain point. It happens all the time, you go fill your car or truck up at the petrol or gas station, or you go out and buy a brand new pair of sneakers, or you pay your taxes etc.... etc..., you are always getting screwed in everything.
So in short, people react to things differently, and I think that is a good thing.
Whannnnn Whannnnn dat is the sound of 20 year old babies
Oh and trashing a game and other people for playing it is very immature, I do not disrespect or put other people down for playing a game. So please lets try and stay civil and maintian atleast a minimal amount of maturity. Your welcome
"HEHEHEHEHE, you touched me, HEHEHEHEHE, me like you, you like me, lets get together and rub are feet".
Whannnnn Whannnnn dat is the sound of 20 year old babies
Fair enough and agreeable.
My point is, as much as I'd like to take up a pitchfork alongside everyone else -- I think people have every justifiable reason to be upset with the game and company -- the fact that there are people who have done nothing but spew venom -- even now "pining" for days of the game that years ago they were comparing to things they flushed down their toilet -- not only prevents me from doing this for desire not to be associated with that type of person, but makes it difficult for me to even take the angry mob, as a group, seriously.
I don't mean it to sound like I'm pointing fingers at people and calling out, "Faker!" but in my reaction to what I've seen reading through some of the history of the forum, perhaps that's how it appeared.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Honestly, I don't see why you should even consider "joining the mob" if you don't feel the need to on your own steam so to speak. Singly or as a group, it is always your personal opinion of view that it comes down to. You always have to judge things yourself, on the criteria only you can assign importance to.
While some of us might take some personal feelings of hurt or insult from a judgement you make, that really shouldn't make that judgement any less valid, at least to and for you. If one of us doesn't understand that you in all reality have very valid basis for your judgements, be they positive or negative, that is that individual's problem, and not your own. In short, make up your mind, get behind your convictions, and if we don't like it, well, fuck it, you're not here to agree with us, please us or humor us. You're here to discuss what you wish to discuss about our common interest- SWG.
All *I* ask is that you pull no punches, leave out the sugar, and be honest and try to remain respectful while you do it. I know that some of this might irritate some of us, but we do our fair share of that too, so what's good enough for one is good enough for all.
There.
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Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Point taken.
The reason I would want to "join the mob" is because I believe "the larger the voice, the louder the message." But if the only common message the group can muster is that, "SOE sucks. Always has, always will. I want SWG dead ASAP for what they did to us." Well, there really isn't any point to joining a movement towards a dead end, is there? And if this is the common voice in the forum since launch, then the sillyness is just painfully apparent.
Other than that, happy to shoot the SWG related bull, without pulling punches
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I can't actually say we are in any real disagreement on any of this. I've always contended that at one point in time, they actually were selling something I was all too happy to buy. While they have NEVER been particularly good with the customer servicing and I don't think that they have ever had even a basic grasp of version control, I was for a time happy enough that I could forgive those things. I'm safely sure enough to say that I was in the majority on that. I'm also confident enough to say that some of the people using the broader brushes while painting SOE black (yet somehow managing to miss getting that black paint on LA) forget a little too easily where they stood during days we paint as halcyon now. I may have been in a minority when it comes to my having been as in love with that system when I played it as I am in memory of it. It's hard to say, because those of us who WERE happy were too busy playing to post very much at that time. And really, a lot of us weren't the "squeaky wheel" variety of customer. Not unless we felt VERY threatened by a proposed change or were hurt badly by some bug to what we did.
I hear the mob and I hear more than one message. I hear themes. Some of them I feel are constructive, while others aren't. Many of the voices don't acknowledge any other concern in the universe but their own. Many others try to encompass the fact that it takes all types and that more than one concern or style of play needs to be met or adressed. The only real unifying factors are that we all loved Star Wars and that we are all angry about it. And truthfully, I think even the most selfish, destructive members of the mob are at least partially justified, no matter how petty and unimpressive they may sound to me. It takes all types. I'm not part of the mob because it's a big thing. I'm here because I feel I need to be, if not for what might be accomplished from all of this then for the feeling that I didn't just enable something I hated by sitting down and shutting up when opening my mouth and standing up carried even the vague possibility of changing something for the better for someone else, even now when for me it's over. It's not even vaguely heroic or selfless. I have a stake in this because it effects what my future options will be as well.
If you have something you feel the need to accomplish by using the mob's voice, then by all means, join it. If you don't feel it will help what you feel is important, then don't. For me, I don't much care if people think I'm foolish or pathetic or whatever for taking a stand, or care if some of the people who are using a common 'voice' with me make me look less spiffy by association. I don't fool myself to think that I'm any better or worse than anyone else in this boat, because when it boils down to it, we're ALL either gamer geeks or Star Wars nerds or both, and that's good enough for me. If I can publicly admit to thinking that Luke Skywalker was HAWT in Return of the Jedi, I can share my personal crusade with AdmRiker and have decent debates with Obraik.
But that's just me, center of my own universe talking. And by now, you already know I love the sound of my own voice. Tee hee.
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Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
I can't actually say we are in any real disagreement on any of this. I've always contended that at one point in time, they actually were selling something I was all too happy to buy. While they have NEVER been particularly good with the customer servicing and I don't think that they have ever had even a basic grasp of version control, I was for a time happy enough that I could forgive those things. I'm safely sure enough to say that I was in the majority on that. I'm also confident enough to say that some of the people using the broader brushes while painting SOE black (yet somehow managing to miss getting that black paint on LA) forget a little too easily where they stood during days we paint as halcyon now. I may have been in a minority when it comes to my having been as in love with that system when I played it as I am in memory of it. It's hard to say, because those of us who WERE happy were too busy playing to post very much at that time. And really, a lot of us weren't the "squeaky wheel" variety of customer. Not unless we felt VERY threatened by a proposed change or were hurt badly by some bug to what we did.
I hear the mob and I hear more than one message. I hear themes. Some of them I feel are constructive, while others aren't. Many of the voices don't acknowledge any other concern in the universe but their own. Many others try to encompass the fact that it takes all types and that more than one concern or style of play needs to be met or adressed. The only real unifying factors are that we all loved Star Wars and that we are all angry about it. And truthfully, I think even the most selfish, destructive members of the mob are at least partially justified, no matter how petty and unimpressive they may sound to me. It takes all types. I'm not part of the mob because it's a big thing. I'm here because I feel I need to be, if not for what might be accomplished from all of this then for the feeling that I didn't just enable something I hated by sitting down and shutting up when opening my mouth and standing up carried even the vague possibility of changing something for the better for someone else, even now when for me it's over. It's not even vaguely heroic or selfless. I have a stake in this because it effects what my future options will be as well.
If you have something you feel the need to accomplish by using the mob's voice, then by all means, join it. If you don't feel it will help what you feel is important, then don't. For me, I don't much care if people think I'm foolish or pathetic or whatever for taking a stand, or care if some of the people who are using a common 'voice' with me make me look less spiffy by association. I don't fool myself to think that I'm any better or worse than anyone else in this boat, because when it boils down to it, we're ALL either gamer geeks or Star Wars nerds or both, and that's good enough for me. If I can publicly admit to thinking that Luke Skywalker was HAWT in Return of the Jedi, I can share my personal crusade with AdmRiker and have decent debates with Obraik.
But that's just me, center of my own universe talking. And by now, you already know I love the sound of my own voice. Tee hee.
Here here! Well said.
I am not asking you to read admriker's posts. I am not asking you to respect them as respect is an individual's choice. What I was saying is that he bring up points. Like you mentioned yourself - fotm. Sure there is a lot of repetitive rhetoric here. Hell, as of late, I have cut my posts down because I believe I have stated what I thought and only jump in on points that I think need to be made.
I will be the first to admit that its a shark frenzy as of late. Misinformation. disinformation, trolls and at some points - mob mentatility. Facts are lost, and our cause is as well when we go off on a tangent that is entirely wrong. Yes, admriker has said quite a lot of the same things in the past. But again, the points he brings up in posts are still points. Those FOTMS are still points and to be honest - while the well read may know his arguments and current arsenal - many many more are coming here everyday who have not. They have been feeding on the criticism lite information from SWG's forum. Threads come and go and Good god do I wish there were stickies and a search feature on this site. He brings up his stuff, debate ensues - points are proven or disproven by other posters and people walk away with more information and ideas. You need news sources and as of late - right or wrong - he has provided just that. And look at what events unfolded due to this recent wave of rumor. We now know more than ever the future plans of SWG. SOE had to drop its curtains and come out to talk. Had they done this all the while - there may may well have been a minority resistance as dialogue effects change.
It is highly unfair to generalize anyone here. The use of %'s and the word always never works. Crying wolf may make you a few skeptics but it does not make you wrong on real issues if they stand to be just that. This forum has people on both sides and we keep each other in check. Obraik keeps his level and civil head in his posts on the defense of the current game as Erillion once did. Az is as fair minded of a critic as one could get in this place. We have our extremes too. They know who they are. When its redundant banter - I bet you a prenerf mellon that someone calls them on it within 5 posts. The readers here hear both sides and judge for themselves. I like to think that the truth always lies somewhere in the middle.
In the end, this is off thread and I apologize to the OP. ChrisCao and Helios did indeed deal a deathblow to certain communities. Their actions are what we should be discussing. They are the ones who are on trial so to speak. Their vision of the game is quite unlike anything we had hoped for or in my opinion the game community asked for. Those who remain may wish it to be just so and in the end - they stayed and should get just that. However, I will still be here though until 1. there is a true SWG replacement in my life and 2. the industry truly learns not to follow the deceptive practices and manner of contempt that SOE has treated its customer base to.
/tar kefkah
/deepbow
I miss Erillion. I wish I could hear what he has to say about what Chriscao and Helios (AND the others) dropped on the community on Friday. I think it would be more than interesting reading. He always had a perspective that encompassed things I didn't enjoy and made them... well... MATTER more to me, even if they weren't things I wanted to hear.
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I couldn't be further from your statement. My friends loved this game before it was hobbled by the CU and lobotomized by the nge. Over 2000 of our players on our forums loved the pre-cu game, Half tolerated the CU. and 3 like the nge. over 2000 people.. now 3 like the changes and 4 still play because they can't give it up.
Sure, the people standing against $OE may have different reasons for doing so. Quite frankly, I quit after the CU, came back and then quit days before the nge was leaked. I hated the CU enough to cut loose twice. I played the nge and was proven wrong when I said "Well, the game can't get any worse"
And that STILL doesn't invalidate the fact that the nge is just plain horrible.
AND to add...
I want to enjoy the game too.. but that TOOK THAT GAME AWAY. They won't give it back. ALL that is left is hating $OE and trying to plot their downfall.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I want to enjoy the game too.. but that TOOK THAT GAME AWAY. They won't give it back.ALL that is left is hating $OE and trying to plot their downfall.
This is why you can't be taken seriously, and if they can't take you seriously why should they take your complaints seriously? And then you sit there, suck your thumb and wonder why they won't listen to you.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I hear what you're saying, and the only idea in your post that I'll disagree with is that while you see posters like admriker raising forum awareness by clinging onto any topical point to carry their crusade against their company of choice, I see posters like him actually decreasing industry sensitivity to playerbase complaints. The constant stream of hate just becomes a drone of negativity that developers learn to tune out. Then when real uproars come up, like the playerbases outrage at the NGE changes the minute it hit TC, they just don't take the voices of concern seriously. "Oh, don't mind them. They complain about everything but always keep on playing. Go ahead and push it through." Then they scratch their heads wondering why there were no apparent warning signs for this iceburg they just hit.
These "players" who seem to have no purpose other than to pull the game down are at least partly responsible for the developers perceived arrogance when ignoring player concerns. And unless players with legitimate complaints and concerns for the direction of the game find a way to differentiate and segregate themselves from these muckrakers they're going to be ignored right along with them.
Apologies for hijacking the thread.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Helios_SOE made an unprecedented post last night, yes, on a Sunday evening, to clarify his point on virtual worlds. I'm sure the Sony accounting department registered a new high number of cancellations, for the population still left in the game.
I married a programmer, so I can read through this beaners double-speak. Basically, in translation, it says "oops", don't cancel, we'll be keeping *wink* all the things you love in the game.
Helios Titan Speaks:
"So I made a comment about SWG moving away from being mostly a world simulation towards being more of a game. As there may have been some misunderstanding, I'll take a minute to clarify.
In any simulation the point is to model the real thing as close as possible in an effort to bring the experience to life. This generally only works well if the simulation is extremely accurate. A world simulation is one of the most complex kind of simulations you could think of building, involving literally billions of variables, knobs and switches that all interconnect in some harmonious manner.
Of course, an extremely accurate world simulation is not only beyond the capacity of a team of game developers to create but is also beyond the processing power of any computers available on the free market today. As such, when game developers create world "simulations" they already have to allow for a large number of inconsistencies (light sabers in SWG have never carried the danger of chopping off a limb, for instance).
World simulations are difficult to maintain because of their inherent lack of precision - there are no truly self governing systems. In addition, while extremely accurate world simulations may not be feasible with today's technology, world simulations with a dizzying number of rules, causes and effects certainly are. Such world simulation games typically suffer from an extreme learning curve and tend to foster unnatural and repetitive game play. I'm not saying that such undesireable gameplay is the result of the world simulation itself - no - it is instead a direct result of our inability to create extremely accurate world simulations. Everything computers do has a pattern to it, and humans have an innate ability to master patterns in the most efficient way possible. Only nature itself is truly random.
As you make more and more provisions for the lack of accuracy in your simulation you naturally gravitate towards a more pliable and "game-y" environment. A "simulation" and a "game" are in essence the same thing, only with varying degrees of accuracy.
This shift away from "simulation" and towards "game" can happen "orderly" as part of a conscious decision making process or it can happen "chaotically" as a side-effect of making provisions for an inaccurate simulation.
That being said, while we may have made a conscious decision to put more "game" into SWG, we are still endeavoring to provide an exciting Star Wars fantasy set in a persistent state world. Persistent state worlds do not necessarily imply "simulation", but they do imply things like community, a virtual society, an economy and other such things we gave grown to enjoy about SWG. "
-Helios Titan
-Lead Systems Designer, SWG
"I find your lack of faith...disturbing."
03-26-2006 07:41 PM
I like the cut of your jib sir. ^_^
While I find Shayde's posts particularly comical, there are those that go a bit too far.
As Az said, LA/SOE have made their beds. They require any assistance bringing about their demise. Just sit back and enjoy the show. No need to stress yourselves out.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Oops - just started on the Az thread on the matter. Never mind the mention of starting a thread then. Carry on.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Maybe they will pull a shadowbane and anarchy online and go free with limited access to save it from the zapper!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Maybe they will pull a shadowbane and anarchy online and go free with limited access to save it from the zapper!
Morning, Fad. Yeah, I'd have to say that would be a sensible course of action for them at this point. It has worked VERY well for FunCom with AO. SOE would probably do very well to do the same with both SWG and MxO. Neither game is offering enough to keep a practical number of paying subs at this point in time and "free" playerbases are a good selling ground for payed subscriptions.
Yeah, players still bitch, but there's only so pissed you can get at someone who's letting you play for "free".
I say "free" because being stuck looking at Fanta billboards is a form of payment LOL...
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/shiver
Don't even joke about that stuff , scares the crap out of me ... brrrrr
Its funny you should say that because SOE just did this exact thing with Planetside. One can only wonder if some of their other craptastic albatrosses like MXO and SWG aren't far behind.
http://planetside.stratics.com/