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Repeating content?
Gouki4u
Member Posts: 215
One of the complaints I've heard about DDO is that you have to repeat quests to reach maximum level. Is this true, or can I get to level ten without having to do some quests over, and over for experience?
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.
Comments
There's 128-130 quests (plus 15 to be added soon). There is no way to get to lv 10 without repeating a quest. You won't have to repeat all of them, but you can't do it without repeating some.
In WoW and otehr games there are only a few instances and you end up repeating them many, many, many times to level up. In DDO you might repeat it twice or thrice and msot often you do so because the isntaces are fun (unless your a XP freak and jsut grind the best time/xp ration quest).
yeah I dont know why people are so down on this aspect of the game. They seem fine with the concept of standing in the same spot for hours on end in EQ and WoW whacking progresively larger rats, but cant cope with running a quest a few times..... go figure...
I just hit level 3 with my pally and I have not repeated any quest because I HAD TO. I have repeated several quests because I wanted to, but whats wrong with that. I saw a post on the official forums the other day where someone listed a path to level 10 without repeating any quests at all. So its more about playstyle than being forced to do anything.
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No, you haven't. In fact if you manage to get the max XP from all the adventures you can reach the Lv. 10 without have do all. But is hardly impossible that you don't play some dungeon at least twice, sometimes you play the same dungeon again in order to help a friend or guildmate, so, the truth is you will never know
It takes 450,000 XP to get to lv 10, right? (45,000 in PnP DnD)
There's 130 (counting the ones they just re-opened) total quests (well between 128-130).
Thats means you need 3,461 xp per instance to get to lv 10 without repeating any of them. Unless they have boosted XP from beta (which they stated that beta/pre-start XP was already boosted and they were going to lower XP at launch), the average dungeon doesn't give out 3,500 xp ... or does it?
No because the encounters gives you less XP at lower levels (and more at the higher ones). And you have to play only in parties with no more than four members of the same level. Of curse, don't forget to finish every encounter in a dungeon.
With that -theorically, because as I state before is hard to mantain these objectives- you can get the Lv. 10 without repeat a single adventure.
OK Burrek, I just noticed this... What WoW are you playing? I have leveled up one character to level 60 and never repeated any instance. I also have a level 47 in which I have not gone into any instance... And no, I do not grind mobs to level either. I just do the quests.
I Used to think that, in "discussing" things with you in other threads on this forum that you had some idea of what you were talking about... But after reading this post, I am not so sure...
OK Burrek, I just noticed this... What WoW are you playing? I have leveled up one character to level 60 and never repeated any instance. I also have a level 47 in which I have not gone into any instance... And no, I do not grind mobs to level either. I just do the quests.
I Used to think that, in "discussing" things with you in other threads on this forum that you had some idea of what you were talking about... But after reading this post, I am not so sure...
I would say that you are the one that does not know what your talking about. I played WoW for a year and I do know the game quite well. It is definitly the best EQ styled MMO but when you think about it the path from 1-60 is always the same series of quests (and those quests are of much lower quality than DDO). I quit WoW because noawayds everyone just wants to powerlevel to 60 and they do so by grinding isntaces for the loot and exp, while the level 60s just grind raid instaces (or BGs) for the uber loot.
Although it is quite possible to play the game 1-60 without grinding instaces it is not possible unless you like to play solo, and I don't.
What DDO sacrificed for the quality of it's content is the crafting and the free-roaming world. But in WOW those two features become a huge tedium when it comes to higher levels and WOW ends up being a game of instaces with long flight travel in-between.
In WoW, you play your homeland areas until level 10 (which only takes a few hours to get). After that, you move on to the same areas as everyone else of your level range. This is true of both horde and alliance characters. Beyond that point it's the same quests you did before, and this is true of EVERY othe MMO on the market. You're either repeating the same quests over again (as in the case of WoW) or the same grinding spots (as in games like Lineage 2). The point I think burrek was trying to focus on is that no matter what game you're playing, you repeat the same content over again, at least with new characters. And in many cases you just sit and grind random mobs. DDO doesn't have a "grind" and it's not necessary to repeat many quests unless you really want to.
Up to this point, no game is perfect. WoW is big because it attracted a lot of kiddies. DDO isn't as big because it caters more to veteran players and a mature crowd. Both games have their positives and negatives, but as it stands they're not as different as many people would like to think. The basic mechanics of gameplay are the same in most MMOs.
You must be in the honey moon period in WoW. And you seem to have never experienced 50+ gameplay in WOW to make such statments. Once you get out of your starting areas everyone is funnled into the same quests since it is impossible to level by only doing the quests in your faction areas. There are maybe 50 quests per starting area that can get you to 20. Most of these quests are of the kind "go kill me 10 mobs" or "go take this letter to the next tow."
If your still enjoying WoW, good for you. But I need a change and so do many others that are burned out on WoW.
OK Burrek, I just noticed this... What WoW are you playing? I have leveled up one character to level 60 and never repeated any instance. I also have a level 47 in which I have not gone into any instance... And no, I do not grind mobs to level either. I just do the quests.
I Used to think that, in "discussing" things with you in other threads on this forum that you had some idea of what you were talking about... But after reading this post, I am not so sure...
Have to agree with Burrek here though, repeating instance in WoW is pretty much mandatory, at least if you want any kind of neat loot.
Even though it is possible to get to 60 without ever entering one you will still kill thousands of the same mobs in pretty much the same place to complete them quests.
DDO might be all about instances but leveling is by far the most varied progression I have yet encounted in any game, regardless.
Also "discussing" is not the same thing as making the assumption that everyone thinks and do like you and if they dont they are wrong, just a forum tip, not that I think it will stick.
He never said no one had never ever gotten to 60 without doing any instances several times, but most people have.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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deleted double post...
This isn't a particularly accurate description of the experience/level dynamic in WoW; in addition, it is entirely the choice of the individual player whether they even enter an instance at all in their entire character life from 1 to 60.
Besides the fact that you, as the player, are not forced to use only (or any) instances to gain experience, if you decide to do just a few instances in addition to other play or standard quests you will hardly be doing the same instance over and over again. Even though the general guidance and goals of the quests in WOW repeat over and over again, the exact layout, spawn locations, challenge and locations of quest items are not the same every single time.
Yes, I have certainly had to recover a critical piece of machinery for the gnomes several times; but not from the exact same area, with the exact same creatures, the exact same spawns, same numbers and same item locations.
In DDO you will repeat quests to get to level 10. The main difference is that when you repeat the quest there are absolutely NO surprises. Spawns, traps and goals are all in the exact same location they were the first time you went through, with only minor variety in spawns when you change the difficulty level.
Saying that every MMORPG repeats quests and then trying to liken it to the manner in which DDO repeats quests is an inaccurate comparison. Certainly, other MMORPGs repeat quest goals, but rarely are the dynamics static. In DDO, the dynamics (spawn and trap locations, numbers of opponents, location of critical items) remain static regardless of how many times you do the quest.
So the answer is, yes; you will most likely have to repeat quests because there is no other option for gaining experience except completing quests. If you fail (die during a quest and are forced to exit the dungeon) a quest, you will definitely have to repeat it and the quest dynamics will not change, meaning that spawns will be in the exact same spot every time, traps will be in the same spot every time and critical items will be in the same locations every time. When you start a new character, you will see every dungeon again and nothing will have changed from the last time you went through it. Which is what people mean when they talk about repeating content in DDO.
I'm glad to see that Turbine is adding more dungeons in a timely manner. Hopefully they will continue to do so on a regular basis, while simultaneously working to make their existing dungeons more dynamic.
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I agree with Somnulus. Burrek, your fundamental mistake is that as many players do, you are blaming developers for your own choices. If you wanted your rare class set in WoW and you grinded the instances 30 times per piece, it's really your choice. I never did that because I enjoy PvP much more than mindless grinding. I've entered few instances multiple times and most of those times it was to complete additional quests and not grind. The bottom line is I reached lvl 60 and there were still many quests I never did. There is absolutely no need to grind in Wow to get to 60... unless you are bored to look for quests/change zones. Period.
The success of WoW is not due to the fact that kiddies" or "733t" players farming instances fill up the servers. It's because WoW is a beautiful game, with a VARIED, LARGE and INTERESTING WORLD. You can grind, yes, but you can also quest, craft, PvP, RP, fish... It does have many timesinks built in and many sorts of repeatable quests to induce grinding but... you don't have to do them if you don't want to and there is still many other things to do.
And you claim that DDO is varied? In which way? It is just a string of instances one after the other. You just pick the ones you like and explore. There is NOTHING else to do apart from that. Absolutely nothing. And yes, they got the dungeon part right, but that is just about it. I doubt that there will be many people who can find something interesting to do in this game after six months, no matter how many additional dungeons are added.
WoW has an extremly good design when it comes to leading the player through the experience. They get you hooked on the lower leves since there is a sembelence of setting, importance and accomplishment but then gets sloppy once you get 40+ and the end gameplay is just a hude grind (DDO PVE end game is the same as WoW but at least you don't have to travel for 20 minutes to get anywhere).
I have also mentioned many times that DDO does not have the lifespan of WoW but that does not a bad game make unless your a hopeless MMO addict. Deus Ex and Morrowind were both most excellent games that did not last that long and coudl not aspire to the longevity of WoW.
I'm still playing and having fun in DDO and my free month is almost up and that is more than I asked for.
It has nothing to do with whether an individual is a fan of WoW or otherwise enjoys the game. The issue was the accuracy of your initial comparitive statements; that is to say, they were inaccurate.
Simply because people are pointing out those inaccuracies does not mean that they are rabid WoW fanbois.
I would like to know in what way DDO instances are "varied". Certainly, there is variety from one to the next but the instances themselves never change, regardless of how many times you do them. As there is no other actual playable content in the game, again, the answer to the OP's question is that, yes, you will most likely have to repeat instances and it truly is repetitive in the nature of content.
If DDO had playable content that was outside the scope of just the instanced dungeons, then a comparison of the relative content value of instances between DDO and WoW would be applicable. Since that is not the case, the comparison was invalid. It's as simple as that.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Looks like I remembered correctly. Took this from DDO's forum.
There is no way around repeating the same dungeons. If you only did each dungeon once (with all bonuses), you still would only be lv 6.
compiled from quest spreadsheet here
http://www.devtk.com/images/ddoquests.xls
Yep, was just gonna post this.
There isn't any way to get to 10 without repeating some quests. I'm not sure I see the issue in this, as repeating != grinding.
When I think of how many times I had to camp Lower Guk, back in the day, I just kinda gotta laugh that this is a controversy at all...
It has nothing to do with whether an individual is a fan of WoW or otherwise enjoys the game. The issue was the accuracy of your initial comparitive statements; that is to say, they were inaccurate.
Simply because people are pointing out those inaccuracies does not mean that they are rabid WoW fanbois.
I would like to know in what way DDO instances are "varied". Certainly, there is variety from one to the next but the instances themselves never change, regardless of how many times you do them. As there is no other actual playable content in the game, again, the answer to the OP's question is that, yes, you will most likely have to repeat instances and it truly is repetitive in the nature of content.
If DDO had playable content that was outside the scope of just the instanced dungeons, then a comparison of the relative content value of instances between DDO and WoW would be applicable. Since that is not the case, the comparison was invalid. It's as simple as that.
Once again I agree. I am no rabid fanboy I just felt I disagreed with your views, burrek. And I am not saying DDO is a bad game, just several levels below WoW at the moment. People accuse WoW of being a game for players without lives while DDO is a game for "serious" gamers. I am 31, I have a wife and a job and I still put in it a majority of my spare time. Limited content vs Expansive world is not a question of casual vs. hardcore imo. It's about how one perceives a game. If a player has an overwhelming need to do everything there is to do in a reasonable amount of time then yes WoW is probably not right for him/her. If one wants a multitude of options in an expansive and interesting fantasy world then yes WoW is the game. And no I do not see PvP as a grind because I do not grind it anymore. I am in a fixed group and have lots of fun facing the best the Horde can throw at us.
I've also been playing D&D for more than a decade. I WANTED DDO to be an excellent MMO which could hold my interest for a comparable amount of time, because endless possibilities is what D&D is about. Alas it is not the case. It's not bad, but for me it doesn't cut it. Furthermore any comparison of DDO to Baldur's Gate or Oblivion is futile imo. These two games both have engaging plots, BG had brilliant characters and Oblivion has a huge, living world to explore freely.
Differences of opinion or taste aside, DDO obviously does require repetition to get to the level cap at the moment.