I think a lot of people don't know that card companies all share their records with each other. Try and do a ton of charge backs and find out how fast you can no longer get credit cards. You can be banned if you abuse the system as you should be.
I have also seen people claiming that if charge back are disputed it will affect you credit score. It won't at all. First of all you have already paid what was owed. Secondly if it is completed then the business it was held against has admitted to wrong doing. If the card company agrees to the charge back then it is between to credit company and the business. It isn't like you get your money back at the moment you try and do a charge back. The credit card company first looks into the claim and makes a decision to go ahead or decline your claim. Once the card company decides you have a claim they will give you your money back then get the money from the business. Now if you keep and active account after making a claim and another payment is due that is on you as it was processed after you initially made a claim.
People have this notion that card companies have to do a charge back, they don't at all. I had to do charge back against a rental company for failure to provide a car upon arrival at an airport. It actually takes time and investigation into what happened before any decisions are made.
Consumers need to be more aware of what are facts and are not. Each country may have different laws when it comes to credit. If you live in the US a charge back is not guaranteed and is upon you to prove you were not provided what you bought. And to put it plainly if you have been playing a game for a couple months and try and do a charge back I hope your card company closes your account. Live with the choices you make, if they change the gameplay after a few months and you don't agree cancel your account and never play again, called personal responsibility.
I think a lot of people don't know that card companies all share their records with each other. Try and do a ton of charge backs and find out how fast you can no longer get credit cards. You can be banned if you abuse the system as you should be.
I have also seen people claiming that if charge back are disputed it will affect you credit score. It won't at all. First of all you have already paid what was owed. Secondly if it is completed then the business it was held against has admitted to wrong doing. If the card company agrees to the charge back then it is between to credit company and the business. It isn't like you get your money back at the moment you try and do a charge back. The credit card company first looks into the claim and makes a decision to go ahead or decline your claim. Once the card company decides you have a claim they will give you your money back then get the money from the business. Now if you keep and active account after making a claim and another payment is due that is on you as it was processed after you initially made a claim.
People have this notion that card companies have to do a charge back, they don't at all. I had to do charge back against a rental company for failure to provide a car upon arrival at an airport. It actually takes time and investigation into what happened before any decisions are made.
Consumers need to be more aware of what are facts and are not. Each country may have different laws when it comes to credit. If you live in the US a charge back is not guaranteed and is upon you to prove you were not provided what you bought. And to put it plainly if you have been playing a game for a couple months and try and do a charge back I hope your card company closes your account. Live with the choices you make, if they change the gameplay after a few months and you don't agree cancel your account and never play again, called personal responsibility.
The customer paid for a service not a specific product. So yes the consumer can legally ask the cc company for a charge back.
Do people understand the back end of CC transactions or why there are time limits? If the company does not use a holding account with the CC then the CC has to petition to get the money back...which most times is not worth their time. If the transfer of funds from the CC to the companies bank is not complete then it is easier. In most small amount cases under $10k the CC writes the losses off on their taxes and the company never loses a dime if the transaction was more than 30 days ago and not in a holding account with the CC company.
If BDO does not have an open account with cash in it with PayPal and the transaction is over 30 days ago and under PayPal's petition threshold then PayPal is probably eating the charge backs.
Visa does not even prosecute CC fraud if under 10k and not part of a large scheme in most cases. They give people back the money and make up the loss in fees and tax write offs.
You can not DENY a Paypal chargeback. It does not matter if you have shipping receipts, pictures of someone with your product, them verifying they have your product. If a consumer that paid with Paypal disputes a charge, they will win 100% of the time. Period. You can have every contract signed, archived, receipts, emails, letters, pictures, etc. it does not matter. Paypal sides with consumers. CC/Banks also side with consumers 100% of the time. It is next to impossible to win a dispute vs. a consumer no matter what.
Google paypal scammers, literally people that pay for things with Paypal, let everyone know they receive it, charge it back, then sell the item themselves.
This email is the equivalent of a Nigerian Prince promising wealth beyond your imagination. I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
I think a lot of people don't know that card companies all share their records with each other. Try and do a ton of charge backs and find out how fast you can no longer get credit cards. You can be banned if you abuse the system as you should be.
I have also seen people claiming that if charge back are disputed it will affect you credit score. It won't at all. First of all you have already paid what was owed. Secondly if it is completed then the business it was held against has admitted to wrong doing. If the card company agrees to the charge back then it is between to credit company and the business. It isn't like you get your money back at the moment you try and do a charge back. The credit card company first looks into the claim and makes a decision to go ahead or decline your claim. Once the card company decides you have a claim they will give you your money back then get the money from the business. Now if you keep and active account after making a claim and another payment is due that is on you as it was processed after you initially made a claim.
People have this notion that card companies have to do a charge back, they don't at all. I had to do charge back against a rental company for failure to provide a car upon arrival at an airport. It actually takes time and investigation into what happened before any decisions are made.
Consumers need to be more aware of what are facts and are not. Each country may have different laws when it comes to credit. If you live in the US a charge back is not guaranteed and is upon you to prove you were not provided what you bought. And to put it plainly if you have been playing a game for a couple months and try and do a charge back I hope your card company closes your account. Live with the choices you make, if they change the gameplay after a few months and you don't agree cancel your account and never play again, called personal responsibility.
The customer paid for a service not a specific product. So yes the consumer can legally ask the cc company for a charge back.
Customer payed for service to access there server + the product. Anything other not really own by the player, only take a small read on the company ToS, many MMO have this in place even Blizzard. But I think is fair to charge back. If the company put a product that didn't get what the player payed for that was not in the box or didn't get the service they wanted. Not months later.
Even way it's not going stop people from trying to charge back there money.
I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
Someone with better Photoshop skills then me, please make this happen!
Also lol at chargeback. You enjoyed the product for months and now you want your money back? Besides Paypal etc. giving you back the money, really? Don't you think that makes you kind of a douche? Like buying a new car, driving around in it for months, then your tires get changed to slightly different ones and you want a refund for the car? Ridiculous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
Someone with better Photoshop skills then me, please make this happen!
Also lol at chargeback. You enjoyed the product for months and now you want your money back? Besides Paypal etc. giving you back the money, really? Don't you think that makes you kind of a douche? Like buying a new car, driving around in it for months, then your tires get changed to slightly different ones and you want a refund for the car? Ridiculous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Tires? Tires just roll.
How about motor? That runs off kerosene. Would you take the car back then?
I think a lot of people don't know that card companies all share their records with each other. Try and do a ton of charge backs and find out how fast you can no longer get credit cards. You can be banned if you abuse the system as you should be.
I have also seen people claiming that if charge back are disputed it will affect you credit score. It won't at all. First of all you have already paid what was owed. Secondly if it is completed then the business it was held against has admitted to wrong doing. If the card company agrees to the charge back then it is between to credit company and the business. It isn't like you get your money back at the moment you try and do a charge back. The credit card company first looks into the claim and makes a decision to go ahead or decline your claim. Once the card company decides you have a claim they will give you your money back then get the money from the business. Now if you keep and active account after making a claim and another payment is due that is on you as it was processed after you initially made a claim.
People have this notion that card companies have to do a charge back, they don't at all. I had to do charge back against a rental company for failure to provide a car upon arrival at an airport. It actually takes time and investigation into what happened before any decisions are made.
Consumers need to be more aware of what are facts and are not. Each country may have different laws when it comes to credit. If you live in the US a charge back is not guaranteed and is upon you to prove you were not provided what you bought. And to put it plainly if you have been playing a game for a couple months and try and do a charge back I hope your card company closes your account. Live with the choices you make, if they change the gameplay after a few months and you don't agree cancel your account and never play again, called personal responsibility.
The customer paid for a service not a specific product. So yes the consumer can legally ask the cc company for a charge back.
Nope you don't pay for a service at all you pay for access to a service, as someone else has stated. You don't own anything in an MMO period, in the USA that is. Some other countries are fighting to make it so this isn't true but if you live in the good old USA you have no rights whatsoever in this case. You fall on the mercy of the CC company on whether they feel like it is worth their time to attempt to get a charge back, but since you have access to what you agree to when you first log into the game you really don't have a foot to stand on if they say no. If the game was a subscription based game you could petition to get your one month sub back for the month a change takes place and most likely no card company would disagree since they are changing the gameplay, but that is where it ends.
Just a personal note I base everything off the USA because it is where I live and the laws I live by.
I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
Someone with better Photoshop skills then me, please make this happen!
Also lol at chargeback. You enjoyed the product for months and now you want your money back? Besides Paypal etc. giving you back the money, really? Don't you think that makes you kind of a douche? Like buying a new car, driving around in it for months, then your tires get changed to slightly different ones and you want a refund for the car? Ridiculous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Tires? Tires just roll.
How about motor? That runs off kerosene. Would you take the car back then?
Uhhm yes, tires. They didn't change the core of the game, at all. So a lot more like tires and a lot less like the motor. People act like it is an entirely new game now which it clearly isn't, 99% of the players probably won't even be affected by the changes. The very vocal minority is just that, a minority. A minority with a degree in exageration.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Beginning July 1, 2015, PayPal’s Purchase Protection was expanded to include INR (Item Not Received) and SNAD (Significantly Not as Described) coverage for intangible and virtual items, digital goods and content, and services. All transactions made globally on or after this date will be eligible for this new, expanded protection.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
You can not DENY a Paypal chargeback. It does not matter if you have shipping receipts, pictures of someone with your product, them verifying they have your product. If a consumer that paid with Paypal disputes a charge, they will win 100% of the time. Period. You can have every contract signed, archived, receipts, emails, letters, pictures, etc. it does not matter. Paypal sides with consumers. CC/Banks also side with consumers 100% of the time. It is next to impossible to win a dispute vs. a consumer no matter what.
Google paypal scammers, literally people that pay for things with Paypal, let everyone know they receive it, charge it back, then sell the item themselves.
This email is the equivalent of a Nigerian Prince promising wealth beyond your imagination. I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
BS.
You are being fooled by the fact that PayPal (and cc companies) allows a certain amount of small-time fraud to go unpunished. They simply absorb the costs, because the amounts involved do not warrant a detailed investigation of the merits of the case.
The fact that a cc company or PayPal allows your chargeback in no way "proves" that you are right. If the company involved does not feel that the amount warrants intensive scrutiny, they will just let it go through. Do it on a weekly basis and you'll soon realise just how "conditional" those companies can be.
If PayPal unconditionally supported fraud, they wouldn't be in business for more than a few days. International crime syndicates would gut them in a matter of hours...
Beginning July 1, 2015, PayPal’s Purchase Protection was expanded to include INR (Item Not Received) and SNAD (Significantly Not as Described) coverage for intangible and virtual items, digital goods and content, and services. All transactions made globally on or after this date will be eligible for this new, expanded protection.
I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
Someone with better Photoshop skills then me, please make this happen!
Also lol at chargeback. You enjoyed the product for months and now you want your money back? Besides Paypal etc. giving you back the money, really? Don't you think that makes you kind of a douche? Like buying a new car, driving around in it for months, then your tires get changed to slightly different ones and you want a refund for the car? Ridiculous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Tires? Tires just roll.
How about motor? That runs off kerosene. Would you take the car back then?
Uhhm yes, tires. They didn't change the core of the game, at all. So a lot more like tires and a lot less like the motor. People act like it is an entirely new game now which it clearly isn't, 99% of the players probably won't even be affected by the changes. The very vocal minority is just that, a minority. A minority with a degree in exageration.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
They change the core functionality of the game by misleading people. You must not play. There was a time the shores was full of afk fishing, tons of people auto pathing in towns to level horses and character, tons of crafting mats in marketplace. It was a large silent majority that decided not to play any more.
Its a ghost town with a minority which was just happy to see the changes. You are speaking your opinion, with a large degree of exaggeration that what was change had no effect.
Log in, and tell me things are the same, you will find out you are wrong. Just don't check out one channel, check them all. You will find same result in each one.
The very fact the had to issue such a 'threat/warning' regarding chargebacks suggests quite a lot of players are VERY dissatisfied with the game and are voting with their wallets. I dont recall WoW ever publishing a statement like this. In fact I dont recall any other game doing it.
Beautiful example of the so called Lose-Lose-Lose game result :-)
Players that play lose because the game will crash sooner than expected; Players that wont get money back; Publisher loses because those couple of thousands bucks wont even keep the lights on on the server room for two weeks.
Somebody in the PA management should get coaching from Yannis Varoufakis.
@MikeB As a new user, I can say that the requirement to name someone in a reply in order to score points required to post is a bit annoying. It is also the sole reason I am posting this reply.
The very fact the had to issue such a 'threat/warning' regarding chargebacks suggests quite a lot of players are VERY dissatisfied with the game and are voting with their wallets. I dont recall WoW ever publishing a statement like this. In fact I dont recall any other game doing it.
WoW works on a subscription model, disgruntled players cancel their subscriptions, maybe they seek a refund for the unused portion of a prepaid subscription. All legitimate. Few if any sought refunds of the box price and all other charges, and wouldn't have got them if they tried.
In this case players are requesting the $30 B2P price be refunded up to five months after they started playing, some are going further and seeking refunds for everything they purchased from the cash shop. This is goods they received in merchantable condition and have used extensively. This is not legitimate, hence the warning.
If they make specific claims like having 10 classes, then you buy the game and see that it only has 5 classes and the 10 was a complete lie, that's one thing. But if they say the game is fun and in your opinion it isn't, that's not false advertising. That's just a difference of opinion.
And that's usually the crux of certain gamer arguments. It's like the SWToR quote where the developers claimed they had exciting/epic combat and someone posted that the company lied as the combat wasn't epic.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They change the core functionality of the game by misleading people. You must not play. There was a time the shores was full of afk fishing, tons of people auto pathing in towns to level horses and character, tons of crafting mats in marketplace. It was a large silent majority that decided not to play any more.
Its a ghost town with a minority which was just happy to see the changes. You are speaking your opinion, with a large degree of exaggeration that what was change had no effect.
Log in, and tell me things are the same, you will find out you are wrong. Just don't check out one channel, check them all. You will find same result in each one.
Sure there has been a decline in population since launch. That can be expected in a game like this.
Are you actually saying that since yesterday there is a huge drop in population? Or at least since the announcement?
I have not been able to log in so haven't personally seen if the place is a ghost town or if it just like before the update where the population dropped due to people not enjoying the game/moving on to other things/discovering the game wasn't for them.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Looking forward to what this sort of thinking will do to the credit lobby and their ideas...
Because if charge backs increase... so will the costs of the financial institutions... that cost will either have to be transferred over to the customer or somehow curbed... And you can take one guess how they will do that.
They change the core functionality of the game by misleading people. You must not play. There was a time the shores was full of afk fishing, tons of people auto pathing in towns to level horses and character, tons of crafting mats in marketplace. It was a large silent majority that decided not to play any more.
Its a ghost town with a minority which was just happy to see the changes. You are speaking your opinion, with a large degree of exaggeration that what was change had no effect.
Log in, and tell me things are the same, you will find out you are wrong. Just don't check out one channel, check them all. You will find same result in each one.
Sure there has been a decline in population since launch. That can be expected in a game like this.
Are you actually saying that since yesterday there is a huge drop in population? Or at least since the announcement?
I have not been able to log in so haven't personally seen if the place is a ghost town or if it just like before the update where the population dropped due to people not enjoying the game/moving on to other things/discovering the game wasn't for them.
For that matter, what is the typical life cycle for a game like this? ESO was like 6 months before going B2P, wasn't it? Wildstar made it less than a year before going F2P. Archeage was, arguably, P2W from the beginning, but still lasted a year or 2 before population drop-offs. So what's the curve? I mean the game is, obviously, teetering on that line converting their model, so is this even out of the ordinary?
The very fact the had to issue such a 'threat/warning' regarding chargebacks suggests quite a lot of players are VERY dissatisfied with the game and are voting with their wallets. I dont recall WoW ever publishing a statement like this. In fact I dont recall any other game doing it.
They aren't voting with their wallets. They are voting with some moronic sense of entitlement which is resulting in behavior that is actually fraudulent.
Comments
I have also seen people claiming that if charge back are disputed it will affect you credit score. It won't at all. First of all you have already paid what was owed. Secondly if it is completed then the business it was held against has admitted to wrong doing. If the card company agrees to the charge back then it is between to credit company and the business. It isn't like you get your money back at the moment you try and do a charge back. The credit card company first looks into the claim and makes a decision to go ahead or decline your claim. Once the card company decides you have a claim they will give you your money back then get the money from the business. Now if you keep and active account after making a claim and another payment is due that is on you as it was processed after you initially made a claim.
People have this notion that card companies have to do a charge back, they don't at all. I had to do charge back against a rental company for failure to provide a car upon arrival at an airport. It actually takes time and investigation into what happened before any decisions are made.
Consumers need to be more aware of what are facts and are not. Each country may have different laws when it comes to credit. If you live in the US a charge back is not guaranteed and is upon you to prove you were not provided what you bought. And to put it plainly if you have been playing a game for a couple months and try and do a charge back I hope your card company closes your account. Live with the choices you make, if they change the gameplay after a few months and you don't agree cancel your account and never play again, called personal responsibility.
If BDO does not have an open account with cash in it with PayPal and the transaction is over 30 days ago and under PayPal's petition threshold then PayPal is probably eating the charge backs.
Visa does not even prosecute CC fraud if under 10k and not part of a large scheme in most cases. They give people back the money and make up the loss in fees and tax write offs.
Google paypal scammers, literally people that pay for things with Paypal, let everyone know they receive it, charge it back, then sell the item themselves.
This email is the equivalent of a Nigerian Prince promising wealth beyond your imagination. I have better odds of seeing a unicorn snorting 4 leaf clovers on my way to work tomorrow.
Even way it's not going stop people from trying to charge back there money.
Also lol at chargeback. You enjoyed the product for months and now you want your money back? Besides Paypal etc. giving you back the money, really? Don't you think that makes you kind of a douche? Like buying a new car, driving around in it for months, then your tires get changed to slightly different ones and you want a refund for the car? Ridiculous.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
How about motor? That runs off kerosene. Would you take the car back then?
Just a personal note I base everything off the USA because it is where I live and the laws I live by.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
It's a basic rebrand. Same company, different name/logo. They did it to try to head off the negative consequences of their actions.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
You are being fooled by the fact that PayPal (and cc companies) allows a certain amount of small-time fraud to go unpunished. They simply absorb the costs, because the amounts involved do not warrant a detailed investigation of the merits of the case.
The fact that a cc company or PayPal allows your chargeback in no way "proves" that you are right. If the company involved does not feel that the amount warrants intensive scrutiny, they will just let it go through. Do it on a weekly basis and you'll soon realise just how "conditional" those companies can be.
If PayPal unconditionally supported fraud, they wouldn't be in business for more than a few days. International crime syndicates would gut them in a matter of hours...
Its a ghost town with a minority which was just happy to see the changes. You are speaking your opinion, with a large degree of exaggeration that what was change had no effect.
Log in, and tell me things are the same, you will find out you are wrong. Just don't check out one channel, check them all. You will find same result in each one.
Players that play lose because the game will crash sooner than expected; Players that wont get money back; Publisher loses because those couple of thousands bucks wont even keep the lights on on the server room for two weeks.
Somebody in the PA management should get coaching from Yannis Varoufakis.
Good Luck!
In this case players are requesting the $30 B2P price be refunded up to five months after they started playing, some are going further and seeking refunds for everything they purchased from the cash shop. This is goods they received in merchantable condition and have used extensively. This is not legitimate, hence the warning.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Are you actually saying that since yesterday there is a huge drop in population? Or at least since the announcement?
I have not been able to log in so haven't personally seen if the place is a ghost town or if it just like before the update where the population dropped due to people not enjoying the game/moving on to other things/discovering the game wasn't for them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Looking forward to what this sort of thinking will do to the credit lobby and their ideas...
Because if charge backs increase... so will the costs of the financial institutions... that cost will either have to be transferred over to the customer or somehow curbed... And you can take one guess how they will do that.
This have been a good conversation
For that matter, what is the typical life cycle for a game like this? ESO was like 6 months before going B2P, wasn't it? Wildstar made it less than a year before going F2P. Archeage was, arguably, P2W from the beginning, but still lasted a year or 2 before population drop-offs. So what's the curve? I mean the game is, obviously, teetering on that line converting their model, so is this even out of the ordinary?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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