I think this was a great idea. It gives all people who play options. I haven't played for months, but if I come back I'm happy I can get dump some pearl store items I bought that I will never use on the market for ingame silver.
Don t worry PinoX, the next comment will be that Sovrath has 20K plus posts, so he knows all, you know nothing.
Anyone thinking this game isn t taking a turn for the worse is in huge denial, even if they won t admit it.
lol "no" I just like talkign about games and I type over 85 words per minute, and I'm an extrovert so "a lot of posts". Since my friends don't enjoy video games it's you lot.
Though in truth I do enjoy the people here and look forward, for the most part, in talking about games with them.
He didn't mean to be offensive. It was a joke. Lighten up. Geez, so serious. 85 words per minutes reference totally kills it.
Sovrath has been a pillar of this community a long time and is one of the more level headed ones around here. Your not doing your self a favor here by being so rude here, let alone to him.
We all have different versions of p2w as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread. I'm gonna say my opinion on it anyway though..
I see this as p2w... Why, because when someone can come in and buy everything that I as a player have worked to get for months/years and then a new player can come in and just buy everything because they have a bigger wallet how is that not p2w??? Especially in a pvp game I mean come on........
I mean things were fine before I just don't understand the change to piss off a percentage of there customers. I never heard people clamoring for this kind of change unless maybe I'm wrong? And I was on the forums quite often......
It's funny how many people try and make this problem much larger than it is. At most they lost around 4k people that even gave a crap about this and protested (most of which were guilds that got whiny cuz someone might be able to catch up with them). They made it so you have a system in place now that can't even be abused (you are literally limited to 100 mill a week (well really under it closer to 95/97) with cash shop items and assuming a person grinds they are making 3 - 4 that much on a weekly basis. You are basically looking at maybe one more try at enchanting or for that matter insurance so your crap doesn't delevel or potentially break on the high end once or twice... This literally isn't game breaking in the least and anyone viewing it as p2w likely has their own agenda in this case and either are the anti f2p on everything where they want all games p2p or believe that they are somehow entitled to everything for free or for that matter people that are so gung ho on PVP that they never want people to catch up ever.
The game is the furthest thing from p2w I can think of from a korean MMORPG and yet people love to trounce around using a broadened definition of p2w. This change has no effected the population much short of a few adamant over literally nothing, and in fact some of the people that were loud on the forums for the game recanted and apologized for OVERREACTING.
Very few people have left the game cuz of the changes and a ton of people are enjoying it. Left and right people looking to buy and sell, still very active chat, so yeah... I fail to see where they are going to lose more and more players. In fact this may bring in some people that were hesitant due to the grindy nature of gear if anything and might replace or even go above the amount of people that actually cared enough to leave.
We all have different versions of p2w as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread. I'm gonna say my opinion on it anyway though..
I see this as p2w... Why, because when someone can come in and buy everything that I as a player have worked to get for months/years and then a new player can come in and just buy everything because they have a bigger wallet how is that not p2w??? Especially in a pvp game I mean come on........
I mean things were fine before I just don't understand the change to piss off a percentage of there customers. I never heard people clamoring for this kind of change unless maybe I'm wrong? And I was on the forums quite often......
You are HUGELYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY limited is why it isn't p2w. For a person to actually buy their way to where you might be at they'd effectively need to get to a point where they can both GRIND and open their wallet. If they just opened their wallets it would take them approximately 3 - 4 weeks for every 1 week a grinder (and this is just selling potential junk items from sausans)
They can't just go out and buy everything, the items need to be for sale on the marketplace, they need to actually have the actual money (100 mill a week particularly on the high end isn't much at all, there are items listed in marketplace that cost more than that and when you get into high end enchanting cron coins to protect it might end up costing as much as you'd get in a week...) A person could never catch up unless they get to the grinding sausan's point at which point do you really think they are going to sell items frequently?
At most you are limited to around 95 - 97 mill a week from cash shop item sales. (19.7 mill give or take x 5) and assuming you sell all of them you'd still be behind a grinder that can earn that is 6 days casually grinding sausans... Also the forums are a horrid place to look for anything as far as people clamoring for change of any sorts...Forums are and will always end up being a very vocal subset of a game that wants the game to be their way or no way. Out of all the people playing BDO only around 4k out of 6000 - 7000 people were for a negative on it. That's a drop in the bucket even assuming they only have 100k players (highly doubtful it is that low) So it is hard to say that people were or were not clamoring for it when you can't poll the ENTIRE userbase effectively.
Most people's reactions would be meh don't care, doesn't really effect how i play the game, or they'd be like "okay with the limitations in place this is nice" there are only about 4000 people that gave a hoot about the issue enough to be vocal and a few guilds. (quite a few people recanted and apologized for over reacting on their forums too) People are getting way too doom and gloom about it. The community in game is still very active and I see a very active amount of people both buying and selling these items.
I have quit the game since and have applied for a chargeback through paypal. I have no use or desire to play for a pay2win game.
I hope they start going after your kind for fraud charges eventually. You are scum of the earth. You play for months enjoy the game then feel you are owed money back, you got what you paid for already now nut up and be a man and not scum.
I love how my comment about being happy that I charged-back was deleted. What the hell was controversial about that? They lied to us - the friggin' article even MENTIONS that they lied to us.
I love how my comment about being happy that I charged-back was deleted. What the hell was controversial about that? They lied to us - the friggin' article even MENTIONS that they lied to us.
They didnt lie, Your perceived Truth , lied to you , you believed what you wanted , blind to the warnings from others and obvious payment model this company favors, The Truth was always there , you turned your cheek to it , and got slapped in the other one ...
I love how my comment about being happy that I charged-back was deleted. What the hell was controversial about that? They lied to us - the friggin' article even MENTIONS that they lied to us.
I have a legit question for you though. Do you think it's fair to use a company's services after you've agreed to their terms and clicked accept blah blah. Buy Pearls ( Which I assume you did, most of us did). I'm honestly curious. I don't think my bank would even do a charge back for services I willingly used and agreed to using. I would have to essentially have to state either of the following.
- Fraudulent Transaction
- Credit Not Processed
- Item Not Received
- Technical Problems
For me NONE of the above would apply to me regarding Black Desert. And if I put through a charge back on false pretenses, I'm getting into fraudulent territory there aren't I?
Few things personally I am not happy RE Black Desert. I still play from time to time since the guildies are particularly neat people to hang out and group up with. Either way please don't think I am having a go at you for your stance on what Kakao ( or w/e the heck they call themselves now) has done. I'm just trying to understand how a charge back under these circumstances can be acceptable.
No doubt the changes have damaged the player base some what though. We lost a couple of guildies over it. Are they overreacting? I don't know. But it saddens me to see people leaving and it does leave me a tiny bit worried on where the game is heading population wise. I would assume it wouldn't be THAT far away for a "Free to Play" model, hence why the value pack was put in place perhaps?.
But I guess at the end of the day they did indeed lie to their player base and that's the fastest way to lose their trust. And I suppose the best way to protest is with the $$$
Anyways best of luck in whatever you decide to game with in the future. I'm sorta hopping between single player games and some online stuff at the moment. I feel kinda lost during my gaming hours without an mmo really to call a "home". I might check out FFXIV or something.
I don't care what others define as P2W; to ME BDO has become P2W and I don't play it any more.
It's become pay to play like every other game....time to start smelling the roses folks it cost $250+ dollars a year to play WoW in 2004 ,,,it's going to cost $500 dollars a year to play a good mmo in 2016 .
How does it cost $250? It's like $160 if you buy a 6 month sub, 180 if you sub monthly. If you want to include the price of an expansion every 2 years it's still not more than $200/yr. Why do people feel the need to exaggerate everything?
Perhaps your mommy bought you the game back in 2004 and you didn't realize there was a 75$ price tag to own that box ?
That is the issue todays generation of gamers think the game should be free and NOT have to pay a dime, should see them when it comes to mobile games asking developers and begging them to give them a dollar game for free....You people are the problem not the developers...Make a game and a business when you do, keep it the same way for life with no changes...Like you want them to do..
Games change, business models change get used to it!!! I hate P2W, but I hate whining more, if I hate a game I QUIT!!! I don't whine like the rest of you and think the developers owe you the world....Kids today think people owe them something, so sick of that attitude, no wonder we do not see any more AAA MMORPG's its the people not the developers and there whining , more money in the mobile market and less hassle..
I can keep repeating it but it seems that the only way you are going to understand is with pictures.
Different people interface with these games differently. You can either ignore that or accept it.
People leave mmo's all the time and people leaving this particular game because of x, y or z reasons is inevitable.
It just sounds to me like you are saying that the people who left over this are so special that the game can't live on without them.
And I think it will. Oh sure, less population but those left will be the players who are engaged and somehow we will live without you.
And I'll say this again, saying it won't affect your gameplay, it's plain denial.
Have fun with your farming spot. That's one of the interface you gave example for this argument, you being happy alone killing/farming. I'm glad for you.
Yah ppl who gonna stay will stay, it doesn't change the fact the game's health will go south. Look at game like Warhammer Online. I'm sure plenty of ppl stayed till very end. I'm not saying BDO will head WHO route. Heading South is South.
Pretending everything won't change is just plain denial.
No one ever said things wouldn't change. Heck, I've said over and over that people will leave for a variety of reasons. there are very few games that don't have people leave for one reason or another.
What people are saying is that the seemingly "few" people who have left over this haven't affected their game play in the negative. If you don't want to accept that this is the case (your lovely word "denial") that is your affair.
Otherwise it feels a bit like a temper tantrum "oh, we'll show them, we'll leave and they will be sorry".
Well ultimately I believe this will back fire on PA. I do not think they will make more money as too many people have said that they are done forking over the cash. Whether they quit or not doesn't really matter. Without cash PA will stop development and then we will see how much everyone cares about this backlash. We will see.
In truth, I sort of have a disturbing feeling that they aren't into the game for the long haul. A bit of paranoia but someone posted an article in the Black Desert forums that stated Kakao was using money to set up other businesses. Is that just how they use their money or are they thinking of changing to other businesses and Black Desert is just a stepping stone?
Welcome to business....I been in the gaming industry, and in the auto repair business, and now a few others....Kids today have no idea what that is or understand it...This is not uncommon if you are smart.
If I remember correctly Daum stated before the game even released that they were in talks with the korean game devs about being able to sell cash shop items on the market.
This is not news. This is not something that Daum decided to all of a sudden do. Any of the morons (the most polite word I can use on these forums) who are suddenly extremely offended or crying like little children about P2W have noone to blame but themselves. This was stated to happen before the game released, in multiple topics, on the games OFFICIAL FORUMS. If you are unable to find out even this small tidbit of info, perhaps you need to stop gaming.
The only people requesting refunds at this point due to "P2W" are idiots who are either burnt out on the game and see a way to get their money back or bought the game and after playing it for a few months decided they didn't want it anymore and are using this as an excuse.
Well, if BDO was a PvE focused game and PvP didn't affect my gameplay in any way, then sure, none of this would bother me. The point is and has been since the beginning, is that BDO is most certainly a PvP focused game. Unless you're one of those hardcore commit suicide to stay under level 45 types to avoid PvP, you are still going to be screwed as new content obviously raises the level of mobs in those areas.
BDO is just a horrendous train wreck towards anyone that enjoys PvE. If all you care about is PvP, you are still going to be screwed because hardcore players who spend money to buy what god like gear they don't have will simply destroy you in PvP. So if constantly losing in PvP is what you consider fun entertainment, than I salute you for being an MMORPG masochist.
I'd sincerely love to see those players that spend money get ahead. You are aware for them to get ahead they'd need to be playing the game pretty hardcore to begin with and an extra chance of enchanting isn't going to magically make them massively OP and you also seem to be under this impression that somehow this god like gear is going to fly out of someone's ass and manifest out of thin air. Unless someone created and sold that god like gear (face it they are going to keep it for themselves for the first batch) you are kind of being a bit delusional in your though process. As it stands a grinder is making way way way more than 100 mill a week so much so that that 100 mill isn't going to do much for them.
Gotta love the "it doesn't affect how I play" defense. "Slow" people are why publishers/developers do this stuff and will keep doing this stuff.
It's not a defense and because someone say that the change don't effect them don't make them slow. The slow ones are the retards, that's complaining about this because when its all said and done the main goal of a business is to turn a profit, if no profit is being turned, that business not going to be around for long. It don't matter how big the population of the game is if no one is really buying anything from the cash shop, a smart business will change the game no matter what people say period. Because a game can survive off a small population Dark Age of Camelot is a prime example of that about 3000 subs and the game is still pushing along. So if your whining about this then your not seeing the big picture no profit equals no game so your opinion really don't matter to them.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch Now Playing : Black Desert Online "America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
Still against it. This video sums up my feelings very well
Disregarding whether or not you think we were deceived (and we were), this payment model is too much on top of the crazy model they already had.
I mean, today it's techincally "not the worst thing in the world" since they only sell for 20m, but it's only going to get more p2w as they increase the price in the marketplace (which they surely will do as sales drop off).
I've just had too much "it's not the worst thing in the world" piled on top of eachother with this game, to the point where it basically is the worst thing in the world now.
All that being said, it's a great game and I am happy people like cheyane, and anyone else, are still enjoying it.
The key phrase in all of this video's complaints was "have to buy something to be competitive."
MMORPGs are probably better off if the overly competitive move off to somewhere else.
It reflects the niche community which claims that will abandon the game. A bunch of elitists who are moving around to find their holy grail of MMORPG. A dystopia of eternal grief and hatred, where they compete who will remain, those who lost will abandon until the game will become a wasteland, then they will search for the next dystopia..
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
I dont mind the development to a little p2w, imo its not even that but ok everybody has his or hers idea's about that I still play the game and will keep playing the game because for me its simply FUN and that is al that matters.
First it was Archeage, now BDO... Is Bless gonna be more of the same? I sure as hell won;t be stumping up major cash for founders packs and early access if I even bother checking the game out..
Follow this simple rule to achieve zen-level happiness:
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
I would love to say you are wrong about that, but unfortunately reality insists on kicking my arse if i try.
Still Pay 2 Win, and Pay 2 Enjoy doesn't matter if they add conversions or not a person spends $100 real world cash to get X amount of Pearls instantly, where their Real World job pay $9 an hour $20 an hour, or something else not so legal that pays 10K Real World Cash Lumpsum, the game has become pay 2 win given the fact a person can instantly get items they want in a matter of seconds...
Meanwhile just like Arche Age, players are stuck "Farming Countless Hours" real world hours, which you might as well "Work a farm in real life" to make the money to spend in game anyways just to keep up in which down the road they just release new items making your earned items outdated with no rewards to keep such happened in Arche Age, finally gave up that game with the last Pay 2 Enjoy items they put into the game for $100 credit packs.
On top of all the decisions Daum has made, the countless hackers, and exploits the game is ruined, no one should ever play a MMO like this, let alone NCsoft titles, or Nexon IMO almost every Korean Game is Pay 2 Win, or Pay 2 Enjoy.
It is a shame though that BDO could have been so much more had it not been for the cheaters, exploits, grind fest, and Pay 2 Win elements of the game let alone Pay 2 Enjoy...
. Decaying house items with no option to recharge for credits to keep it simple.
. Feeding workers Beer, rather than working over time Real Life hours to gain resource income.
This game is probably the best game I never played, at least in 2016. The drama and controvercy associated with it have given me hours and hours of entertainment and I didn't spend a single cent on it. Keep it up guys!
Still against it. This video sums up my feelings very well
Disregarding whether or not you think we were deceived (and we were), this payment model is too much on top of the crazy model they already had.
I mean, today it's techincally "not the worst thing in the world" since they only sell for 20m, but it's only going to get more p2w as they increase the price in the marketplace (which they surely will do as sales drop off).
I've just had too much "it's not the worst thing in the world" piled on top of eachother with this game, to the point where it basically is the worst thing in the world now.
All that being said, it's a great game and I am happy people like cheyane, and anyone else, are still enjoying it.
Don t worry PinoX, the next comment will be that Sovrath has 20K plus posts, so he knows all, you know nothing.
Anyone thinking this game isn t taking a turn for the worse is in huge denial, even if they won t admit it.
lol "no" I just like talkign about games and I type over 85 words per minute, and I'm an extrovert so "a lot of posts". Since my friends don't enjoy video games it's you lot.
Though in truth I do enjoy the people here and look forward, for the most part, in talking about games with them.
He didn't mean to be offensive. It was a joke. Lighten up. Geez, so serious. 85 words per minutes reference totally kills it.
I didn't take it to be offensive, just making a statement that I have a lot of posts because I'm an extrovert, love talking about games and can type very fast.
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Comments
I see this as p2w... Why, because when someone can come in and buy everything that I as a player have worked to get for months/years and then a new player can come in and just buy everything because they have a bigger wallet how is that not p2w??? Especially in a pvp game I mean come on........
I mean things were fine before I just don't understand the change to piss off a percentage of there customers. I never heard people clamoring for this kind of change unless maybe I'm wrong? And I was on the forums quite often......
The game is the furthest thing from p2w I can think of from a korean MMORPG and yet people love to trounce around using a broadened definition of p2w. This change has no effected the population much short of a few adamant over literally nothing, and in fact some of the people that were loud on the forums for the game recanted and apologized for OVERREACTING.
Very few people have left the game cuz of the changes and a ton of people are enjoying it. Left and right people looking to buy and sell, still very active chat, so yeah... I fail to see where they are going to lose more and more players. In fact this may bring in some people that were hesitant due to the grindy nature of gear if anything and might replace or even go above the amount of people that actually cared enough to leave.
They can't just go out and buy everything, the items need to be for sale on the marketplace, they need to actually have the actual money (100 mill a week particularly on the high end isn't much at all, there are items listed in marketplace that cost more than that and when you get into high end enchanting cron coins to protect it might end up costing as much as you'd get in a week...) A person could never catch up unless they get to the grinding sausan's point at which point do you really think they are going to sell items frequently?
At most you are limited to around 95 - 97 mill a week from cash shop item sales. (19.7 mill give or take x 5) and assuming you sell all of them you'd still be behind a grinder that can earn that is 6 days casually grinding sausans... Also the forums are a horrid place to look for anything as far as people clamoring for change of any sorts...Forums are and will always end up being a very vocal subset of a game that wants the game to be their way or no way. Out of all the people playing BDO only around 4k out of 6000 - 7000 people were for a negative on it. That's a drop in the bucket even assuming they only have 100k players (highly doubtful it is that low) So it is hard to say that people were or were not clamoring for it when you can't poll the ENTIRE userbase effectively.
Most people's reactions would be meh don't care, doesn't really effect how i play the game, or they'd be like "okay with the limitations in place this is nice" there are only about 4000 people that gave a hoot about the issue enough to be vocal and a few guilds. (quite a few people recanted and apologized for over reacting on their forums too) People are getting way too doom and gloom about it. The community in game is still very active and I see a very active amount of people both buying and selling these items.
- Fraudulent Transaction
- Credit Not Processed
- Item Not Received
- Technical Problems
For me NONE of the above would apply to me regarding Black Desert. And if I put through a charge back on false pretenses, I'm getting into fraudulent territory there aren't I?
Few things personally I am not happy RE Black Desert. I still play from time to time since the guildies are particularly neat people to hang out and group up with. Either way please don't think I am having a go at you for your stance on what Kakao ( or w/e the heck they call themselves now) has done. I'm just trying to understand how a charge back under these circumstances can be acceptable.
No doubt the changes have damaged the player base some what though. We lost a couple of guildies over it. Are they overreacting? I don't know. But it saddens me to see people leaving and it does leave me a tiny bit worried on where the game is heading population wise. I would assume it wouldn't be THAT far away for a "Free to Play" model, hence why the value pack was put in place perhaps?.
But I guess at the end of the day they did indeed lie to their player base and that's the fastest way to lose their trust. And I suppose the best way to protest is with the $$$
Anyways best of luck in whatever you decide to game with in the future. I'm sorta hopping between single player games and some online stuff at the moment. I feel kinda lost during my gaming hours without an mmo really to call a "home". I might check out FFXIV or something.
- Jinxys
Perhaps your mommy bought you the game back in 2004 and you didn't realize there was a 75$ price tag to own that box ?
That is the issue todays generation of gamers think the game should be free and NOT have to pay a dime, should see them when it comes to mobile games asking developers and begging them to give them a dollar game for free....You people are the problem not the developers...Make a game and a business when you do, keep it the same way for life with no changes...Like you want them to do..
Games change, business models change get used to it!!! I hate P2W, but I hate whining more, if I hate a game I QUIT!!! I don't whine like the rest of you and think the developers owe you the world....Kids today think people owe them something, so sick of that attitude, no wonder we do not see any more AAA MMORPG's its the people not the developers and there whining , more money in the mobile market and less hassle..
Welcome to business....I been in the gaming industry, and in the auto repair business, and now a few others....Kids today have no idea what that is or understand it...This is not uncommon if you are smart.
This is not news. This is not something that Daum decided to all of a sudden do. Any of the morons (the most polite word I can use on these forums) who are suddenly extremely offended or crying like little children about P2W have noone to blame but themselves. This was stated to happen before the game released, in multiple topics, on the games OFFICIAL FORUMS. If you are unable to find out even this small tidbit of info, perhaps you need to stop gaming.
The only people requesting refunds at this point due to "P2W" are idiots who are either burnt out on the game and see a way to get their money back or bought the game and after playing it for a few months decided they didn't want it anymore and are using this as an excuse.
It's not a defense and because someone say that the change don't effect them don't make them slow. The slow ones are the retards, that's complaining about this because when its all said and done the main goal of a business is to turn a profit, if no profit is being turned, that business not going to be around for long. It don't matter how big the population of the game is if no one is really buying anything from the cash shop, a smart business will change the game no matter what people say period. Because a game can survive off a small population Dark Age of Camelot is a prime example of that about 3000 subs and the game is still pushing along. So if your whining about this then your not seeing the big picture no profit equals no game so your opinion really don't matter to them.
Hi I'm Ravkeen!
Emilia_Emi Lvl 56 Witch
Now Playing : Black Desert Online
"America is not at war, the US Military is at war, America is at the mall."
I have found in my lifetime, that the beauty of hating stupid people is, that it crosses all racial boundaries.
It reflects the niche community which claims that will abandon the game. A bunch of elitists who are moving around to find their holy grail of MMORPG. A dystopia of eternal grief and hatred, where they compete who will remain, those who lost will abandon until the game will become a wasteland, then they will search for the next dystopia..
"If it's Asian, it's a P2W equation."
I still play the game and will keep playing the game because for me its simply FUN
Meanwhile just like Arche Age, players are stuck "Farming Countless Hours" real world hours, which you might as well "Work a farm in real life" to make the money to spend in game anyways just to keep up in which down the road they just release new items making your earned items outdated with no rewards to keep such happened in Arche Age, finally gave up that game with the last Pay 2 Enjoy items they put into the game for $100 credit packs.
On top of all the decisions Daum has made, the countless hackers, and exploits the game is ruined, no one should ever play a MMO like this, let alone NCsoft titles, or Nexon IMO almost every Korean Game is Pay 2 Win, or Pay 2 Enjoy.
It is a shame though that BDO could have been so much more had it not been for the cheaters, exploits, grind fest, and Pay 2 Win elements of the game let alone Pay 2 Enjoy... . Decaying house items with no option to recharge for credits to keep it simple. . Feeding workers Beer, rather than working over time Real Life hours to gain resource income.
+1 Time to charge back and Quit .
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo