You know, I had a nice long response planned out, but why waste words which will fall on deaf ears? Especially when I can say what I want in one sentence: I play the game, and you're full of shit because you obviously haven't.
Yeah, think I'll leave it at that. Have a wonderful day.
Ahh yes, the standard "I don't like what you said, so I'll accuse you of not playing" retort. Totally not over-used at all.
Good thing you didn't write more. You know what they say about "assuming".
As a matter of fact, I have played FFXIV. Quite a lot. Specifically, I started in Alpha 1.0, played on-and-off up to about 1.18, and then full-time up to 1.23b. I was in ARR for Alpha, Beta and Launch (when I could actually log in anyway). I played up into HW, where I've missed exactly one update cycle. I'm a Legacy member, have the mark of Hydalaen tattoo, a Legacy chocobo, a 1.x exclusive Goobue, and my character's name in the 2.0 credits.
I've been with the game since the beginning, and I've seen how it's changed
over time. So I feel I have plenty of context to opine on where I see the game now and, unless
something changes radically with 4.0 (or sooner), where it could be heading.
And you know what? For as harsh as my words about the game might be, I would *love* to see it turn around and have my opinion changed. I put a lot of time into that character, and that world. It brings me no joy to feel the way I do about it. I'd love to return, and have it be a game whose future I can actually feel good about, rather than cynical and disappointed. Maybe it'll happen. Maybe it won't. Time will tell.
So, anything else you want to accuse me of "obviously" not doing? No?
Then, a wonderful day/weekend to you as well
i would have said more like you have but i expected crap like what that guy said. Im almost exactly in the same situation. Bought a collectors edition of 1.0, hated it initially but ended up really liking it after they added jobs and whatnot around 1.2x. ARR wasnt my cup of tea but i played it anyway until HW and only played for about a month or 2 into it before i realized its just more of the same patch design and a lot of the things about the game i disliked were not going anywhere. I'd list them all out but this would go on for way too long and ive already said lots of it in previous posts. Like you i really wanted it to become something more since its the only modern MMO to keep my attention long and being a long time FFXI player and FF fan in general i wanted love it...but i really cant.
Now hearing my favorite old podcast (limitbreakradio) basically being really down about the game and noticing a lot of the flaws as of late, it makes me think maybe im not the only one and there are enough people wanting a change....and that maybe...just maybe the devs hear it and do some big changes, but i know i should hold my breath.
I used to enjoy FFXIV for a long time. Unfortunately the end-game progression is so gated behind in-game currency that it is impossible to upgrade gear at that point unless your character is filthy rich.
There's stuff to waste money on in this game??? Oh yeah....forgot people are silly enough to buy crafted gear still even though its completely useless.
More on to what many people are saying though, it has a lot of potential and is still young in mmorpg terms, but it needs to change its formula sooner rather than later. Its not as popular as people honestly think it is.
"NY: The most notable is that the number of players who came to play the reborn FFXIV was beyond our imagination. It’s the first comeback in MMORPG history, so being able to achieve this was definitely a big thing."
Congrats on the success but EVE actually was the first comeback in MMO history, long before FFXIV was a thought
MitovoGames
You are completely right with everything said about FF14. No sense of adventure and no value in weapons and gear long term. FF11 has great value for weapons and gear in the longer term. It's always an adventure the grinding,farming, and camping NMs pays off. FF14 was good at 1st but lacks alot of stuff. I can go back to FF14 in 5 years from now and be caught up to someone who has been playing for years within a 1 month..
High five MitovoGames well said I'm all your comments.
ffxiv has potential but as another player who played since alpha until the last patch in hw I can say the game has serious design flaws and the development is getting worse instead of better.
The games content is negated and finished way to quick, and the content comes too slowly for how it is designed. If you play more then 10hrs a week you get bored before the next content patch. And the devs seem more focused on fluff/vanity stuff instead of lasting things that impact the game.
FFXIV has a really hard time holding onto veteran players atm, look at the recent census people did on the lodestone only 250ish thousand people have the title for the main story which is required to unlock content. That alone is a bad sign considering it is easy to get takes 2-4 weeks tops to get to as a newer player if you actual play the game.
Game is still healthy but if not fixed the new player will stop coming eventually like in all mmos, and then the games population will plummet over time.
Being a hardcore FF fan and someone who loved FFXI (The old one not the new garbage version). I want this game to be great, but as for now it is just living in WoW's shadow more or less. It is shiny the lore and story are great but for a mmo that is about it. It is simply a casual themepark style mmo with content that last a fraction of the time as other AAA titles.
Yoshida turned a game that was launched about 2 yrs too early around into the best WoW clone in the genre ok props to that, but that is all the credit he should get.
i would have said more like you have but i expected crap like what that guy said. Im almost exactly in the same situation. Bought a collectors edition of 1.0, hated it initially but ended up really liking it after they added jobs and whatnot around 1.2x. ARR wasnt my cup of tea but i played it anyway until HW and only played for about a month or 2 into it before i realized its just more of the same patch design and a lot of the things about the game i disliked were not going anywhere. I'd list them all out but this would go on for way too long and ive already said lots of it in previous posts. Like you i really wanted it to become something more since its the only modern MMO to keep my attention long and being a long time FFXI player and FF fan in general i wanted love it...but i really cant.
Now hearing my favorite old podcast (limitbreakradio) basically being really down about the game and noticing a lot of the flaws as of late, it makes me think maybe im not the only one and there are enough people wanting a change....and that maybe...just maybe the devs hear it and do some big changes, but i know i should hold my breath.
Oh yes, I've been listening to LBR and noticing the same thing. They really want to enjoy it - hell, they have a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears into that Podcast, and, aside from Nika who's happy as long as there's raiding, you can tell they're reaching for *anything* they can find to try and enjoy the game again.
My comments about people finding XI to be more enjoyable includes (but is not limited to) some of their cast whom are playing XI more than XIV these days. I sent them a pretty lengthy email earlier today discussing that very topic. Not sure they'll read it on air or not - it's pretty long lol. But yeah... it's a sad situation.
The game is doing fine and some people want to see it do well ..... As FFXI part two. >.>
I really wish people would stop pushing out this strawman about people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI part 2.
There are very, very, very few people who actually want a FFXI 2.0 - and among them, most would prefer it to be SE re-launching XI with a better game/graphics engine, and some modern touches that don't diminish the classic, core experience.
The whole "wanting FFXIV to be FFXI-2" is a myth that has been debunked so many times, in so many places, in excruciating detail, with specific examples and explanations provided. At this point, anyone still spewing that nonsense is being dishonest. Period. It's not a valid argument. It never was. It's just an attempt to shut down and dismiss critical opinions.
For myself, I'd be happy to see them go back to the level of development and dedication they showed leading up to 1.23b, and into 2.0. I'd like to see them be more innovative, and be more creative, instead of rehashing the same systems, giving them a new coat of paint and calling it something different. I'd like to see them introduce systems that remain relevant for more than a couple weeks before people are back in a holding pattern, waiting for the next update, to start the whole process over again. I want FFXIV to be FFXIV... I just want it to be a better FFXIV than it currently is.
So, anyway... Can we please, pretty please, with sugar on top... stop spreading that lie about people wanting XIV to be XI-2? Please? Maybe start to address criticisms of FFXIV honestly, without resorting to strawmen? At least try? Thanks. Appreciate it.
The game is doing fine and some people want to see it do well ..... As FFXI part two. >.>
I really wish people would stop pushing out this strawman about people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI part 2.
snip
Same here. I loved FFXI for what it was and would love to see some of the good ideas be brought over, but id rather FFXIV be different. I think XIV just took too heavily from modern games (mostly WoW) which we have seen over and over again. Honestly i was enjoying what 1.2x was becoming, it just needed the content, the copy/paste world to be redone and add a few modern conveniences and i would have enjoyed if for a long time. Sadly they tossed out anything decent they implemented to just make yet another standard current MMO but prettier, an FF skin and being more polished.
If fan fest shows that the new expansion is going to be what HW was which is the same old design but with new areas and a couple gimicks thrown it then im going to write this game off (along with what seems to be most of the LBR crew) and never look at another FFXIV related post ever again.
I wanted XIV to be XI with a few changes and amazing graphics, or at least a game structured like FFXI. That didn't work out, so they correctly chose the safe route and made yet another themepark MMO. I like FFXIV for what it is, but I also can't stand it because it could have been so much more.
I keep FFXIV in the back pocket. As much as I love the game overall, the end-game is generally pretty shit, so I've just been resubbing after every major patch to check out the story additions and stuff lately.
It's great news to hear some progress on the next expansion, and that the main scenario is completed already.
The game is doing fine and some people want to see it do well ..... As FFXI part two. >.>
I really wish people would stop pushing out this strawman about people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI part 2.
snip
Same here. I loved FFXI for what it was and would love to see some of the good ideas be brought over, but id rather FFXIV be different. I think XIV just took too heavily from modern games (mostly WoW) which we have seen over and over again. Honestly i was enjoying what 1.2x was becoming, it just needed the content, the copy/paste world to be redone and add a few modern conveniences and i would have enjoyed if for a long time. Sadly they tossed out anything decent they implemented to just make yet another standard current MMO but prettier, an FF skin and being more polished.
If fan fest shows that the new expansion is going to be what HW was which is the same old design but with new areas and a couple gimicks thrown it then im going to write this game off (along with what seems to be most of the LBR crew) and never look at another FFXIV related post ever again.
Yeah. Agreed. By the end of 1.23, I was legitimately enjoying FFXIV. They'd gotten the gameplay to a good place, the story was ramping up to be something very interesting, and really all the game needed was better graphics engine and better infrastructure. I, and I know many others, assumed 2.0 was going to pick up where 1.23b left off.
Instead, Yoshida threw all of that out the window, removed things that were not only a solid foundation for content in XIV, but staples of the FF series itself. He decided to hitch himself, and the game, to WoW's shadow. And that's not exaggeration. I've never seen a game developer cite WoW, or its players so directly as a direct barometer of what to do in FFXIV.
As just one major example... Jumping potions. No one in XIV's community was asking for those. At the very least, if anyone was, it was so few that no one even noticed. Yet, Yoshida comes forth in that infamous interview, and says "well, WoW has them", and says how WoW players he knows have asked why they didn't add them with 3.0. That moment was one of the catalysts for me saying "enough". Why is he giving weight to what WoW players think about a game they aren't playing, and he isn't developing?
Why is he citing what WoW players think, or what WoW does, while ignoring or dismissing numerous *valid* requests and reasonable suggestions from his own playerbase, going back as far as 2.x? And again, that's just one of the more egregious examples of how he's dragging XIV around in WoW's shadow. It's, by far, not the only one.
Maybe he should just go work for Blizzard. Then he can actually work on WoW, instead of just pretending to. Just a thought.
Anyway, I digress...
If they show anything at FanFest, it'll just be an announcement, and perhaps some footage of areas, creatures, characters, etc, like they did with HW. Folks won't get to see what it's really about 'til they actually get to play it.
And even then, HW started off strong - very strong, in fact. The lead-in from 2.5 to HW was so well done. But then, instead of making some of those major events "stick" as serious story elements, they used them as a convenient way to give existing characters a make-over, with a little story thrown in. Well except for Sultana and Princess Pea... I mean Minfillia. Though at least Minfillia's existence finally became useful.
After that, it really did become just a rehash of 2.x, with a different paint job, and larger, but overall less interesting zones. Though I did enjoy some of the content... the new Primal fights were pretty fun.
I wanted XIV to be XI with a few changes and amazing graphics, or at least a game structured like FFXI. That didn't work out, so they correctly chose the safe route and made yet another themepark MMO. I like FFXIV for what it is, but I also can't stand it because it could have been so much more.
No that is a myth.
Hey drivendawn? If you're going to make snarky passive-aggressive swipes at what I say, can you at least not be so blatantly dishonest about it?
I *said*, and I quote:
There are very, very, very few people who actually want a FFXI 2.0 - and among them, most would prefer it to be SE re-launching XI with a better game/graphics engine, and some modern touches that don't diminish the classic, core experience.
The myth isn't that people have said it at all. I directly acknowledged that some people do.
The myth - the strawman - is when people, like you, take any suggestion of FFXIV introducing content with the level of engagement, longevity and depth much of XI's has/had, and dishonestly twist it into "people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI 2.0".
Do you get it now? Has it sunken in?
Can you please stop being dishonest with what other people say? Thank you.
FFXI just had a lot of depth to it. Sure, gear lasting for years kinda wont work in a game like this for the most part, mainly because FFXI had gear swapping, so there were several pieces of gear good for various things. But something like the merit point system/job point system would be a great addition, especially since HW didn't add any passives for some odd reasons, plus the game is already creeping up on ability bloat. More open world stuff like poppable NMs similar to how the treasure maps work would be great. Maybe get a random pop item from running instances/raids so people are more motivated to do them beyond just the tome grind and take those pops to set up more events for free companies. Gear sets aren't impossible to re-implement to give a slight bit more value to gear and having additional effects would be great even though the dev team will just say "balancing issues." They can't keep using potential balancing issues and server stress as issues since many other games, wow included, are able to implement such systems. Its also well known and confirmed by Yoshida himself that many game elements were inspired by wow since he's an avid wow player. Just wish more fore thought went into implementation and understanding why such systems worked well in other games.
As one poster mentioned "it feels off"idk why,i have noticed the same thing only very early on.
The reason is simple,too much trying to be like WoW,a very linear game towards raid/zoning,instead of being a total package game.EVERy single thing else you do is rather meaningless,it is always the same reason,hit said Boss for said tier of gear,the same reason i quit playing FFXi,i don't like games designed around raid/zones and forced gear progression. A MMO+RPG should be about role playing,MMO elements and within the main world.
Also i am looking for a game to come out and do a better job with classes and combat than what FFXI did,FFXIV does not do it and so far neither does anyone else.Too bad because the template is there,Square knew how but rushed FFXIV out the blocks and ruined the entire structure because of it.
Point being that yes,FFXIV is a better game than most out there,but i am looking for an improved FFXI not a weaker version with better graphics,that is not a good trade off for me.Better game and better graphics then most certainly.
I also feel Square missed the boat on what they did wrong in the past and that was make leveling a meaningless point of the game.Levels SHOULD be done with groups and ANYWHERE in the game world.Levels should be slower and have meaning so that any item or craft yo uhave worked for can have some long term meaning rather than 10 minutes of use and replace.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This, I actually enjoyed 1.0 (and those tiny numbers behind it), I thought it was pretty fun. I know I may have been in the minority there, but I feel by the end of 1.0 FFXIV was actually beginning to shape up pretty nicely. Thur was pretty fun, kind of a suck the life out of you healer. Kind of reminded me a bit of Blood Mage from Vanguard.
But, yeah, 1.0 towards the end was what I wish FFXIV would of stayed like. It actually felt like Final Fantasy. Sadly, it went the route of ARR. Not saying ARR is a bad game all around, it just doesn't really feel like a game from the FF series. It just feels like it has the name FF tacked on and it is a completely different game. That and everything has been so damned butchered. I enjoy pet classes for the most part, but SMN is not SMN. You basically summon a radioactive turd clone from the actual Avatar itself. Just doesn't seem right to me. Not sure how they would ever implement BST without screwing up what made it great. Guess time will tell if they ever do.
For the bit in bold, I've summed it up like this...
FFXIV could just as well be called "World of Final Fantasy" at this point, without irony.
Not only because of Yoshida's openly stated reliance on WoW as a blueprint, or beause it so blatantly follows that WoW-style themepark design.
Also because of the amount of blatant cross-game tie-ins being added, whether directly or through the mog station. He's not even trying to keep Eorzea as a unique and discrete world anymore. He's turning it into a fan service simulator.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual to decide. For me, I preferred 1.x Eorzea, when it still felt like a unique, separate world.
Last time i subbed was last year for 1 month and barely played. I really like the game but i could not progress the story because its tied to instanced group content and i could not find people. I think i left my highest level character in the low 40s and was stuck at Garuda's fight because it never found people. Haven't subbed ever since.
Ultimately all this negativity can be summed up simply. It just isn't your game. There is nothing wrong with this, and it's great you all have many other options. But that does not mean that FFXIV is a bad game. Objectively speaking, it is the best in terms of polish and quality assurance. The client and netcode are practically flawless, so the complaint is never one about your ability to simply play the game.
It is the perfect feature fetish for people who look for a lot of customization. Even I, who is easy to please, find myself surprised at how it seems every patch comes out with some polish about a function to make it work even better, when it was already fine (imo).
I do not see the cross-over fan service as a negative. The main story quests (MSQs) are only lightly impacted with the involvement of certain characters from other games (Kryle, Matoya etc). These characters are usually just a reference in name alone, and sometimes in character design. Their story and role is unique to FFXIV and they do not waltz in from some other universe. The ones that actually DO waltz in from their universe (Lightning event, Shantoto etc) are side quests that have nothing to do with the actual story of the game. It is a pretty poor argument to hold this against the game.
I also fail to see this relation to this 'WoW blueprint'. Final Fantasy came first in the realm of story telling. It has always been central to every title in the series. It is nothing but the same here. The main progression with content updates revolves around the main story of course. It does so stronger than most other games where story is an afterthought. Is it the same for WoW? Sure. But why is anyone acting like FFXIV is somehow "copying" this? Because WoW is the strongest example in recent history? They certainly didn't do it "first".
People are leaving FFXIV for FFXI? What? Just because you know a group of people who may have done this is hardly implying that 'everyone' is leaving FFXIV for the older game. This makes zero sense to me. Most people who play FFXIV could not stand FFXI. It does not survive today's standards of MMO gameplay. All the complaints in this thread about slow gameplay, and someone here honestly thinks theres some exodus from FFXIV to a game that came out in 2001?
Don't get me wrong, I miss and love FFXI dearly. It was in its prime during a time where people focused on community interaction over racing to the content finish line. I wish more games today were like this too. But alas we live in different standards now. And guess what? It is only going to change again in the next 10 years.
Lastly I'll just offer my own personal opinion of what FFXIV is like for me, because that is all we can really offer here. FFXIV to me is simply another Final Fantasy story to play through. I sub maybe 4-5 months out of a year just to catch up on all the content updates. I haven't really fallen into that pit where I need one certain game of my life to stay relevant 24/7. So for what FFXIV offers here, I am perfectly content with it. I think as long as you love the story then you should find FFXIV to be a great game as well. There certainly is a lot to do if you really want to spend more time on it, for sure. But that doesn't really matter to me. You could say that I don't really treat it like an MMO (is that really a bad thing to do these days? Most of them are garbage.)
EDIT: One more thing I want to point out. WoW is lucky to get one new raid in a year. They especially seem to slow down in the year leading up to an expansion. FFXIV has a much better content update schedule. Almost freakishly fast. I don't know what kind of sweat shop SE is running but Heavensward has only been out for a little over a year and they've already finished the MSQ of the next expansion. All while releasing new dungeons, MSQ, and raids, pvp stuff, and loads of polish material and feature fetish bi-monthly. This is nothing to scoff at.
Ultimately all this negativity can be summed up simply. It just isn't your game.
Yes, after playing the game for ~5 years, it "simply isn't for me". Right. Put the word "anymore" in there, and you're closer to the truth - not quite "on it", but closer. Though, the point isn't *that* it's not for me anymore. It's *why* it's not for me anymore, or - as I've said - a surprising number of others. But, I've already detailed that more than enough.
I also fail to see this relation to this 'WoW blueprint'.
Then you either don't follow what Yoshida's said over the past 3+ years very closely, or you're conveniently ignoring it. He's cited WoW as an influence for FFXIV, in one way or another, more times than I can even recall off the top of my head.
Final Fantasy came first in the realm of story telling. It has always been central to every title in the series. It is nothing but the same here. The main progression with content updates revolves around the main story of course. It does so stronger than most other games where story is an afterthought. Is it the same for WoW? Sure. But why is anyone acting like FFXIV is somehow "copying" this? Because WoW is the strongest example in recent history? They certainly didn't do it "first"."
You're straw-manning here, again.
Quote me stating that WoW came before FF in the realm of story-telling. Go on. I'll wait.
People are leaving FFXIV for FFXI? What? Just because you know a group of people who may have done this is hardly implying that 'everyone' is leaving FFXIV for the older game.
Now you're lying. I never said, nor even implied that 'everyone' is leaving FFXIV...
It's amazing how often I have to quote myself, from the same thread no less, because people like you can't have an honest discussion, and make shit up.
My exact words were:
A surprising number of people are beginning to leave FFXIV for FFXI, to find a deeper, more engaging and lasting MMORPG experience that still focuses on Adventure, and Story and Combat. It's not just veterans who are returning, either. New players picking it up for the first time, as well.
Let me reiterate that. Players are leaving a 3 year-old (not including 1.x) "modern MMORPG" still in its first expansion cycle, to play one that's effectively in an extended maintenance mode - and are finding it more enjoyable.
Saying "a surprising number of people" is not saying or even implying "everyone". If I meant to say "everyone", I would have said "everyone".
And you continue to lie with claiming I said it was "a group of people I know". I didn't identify it as any particular group of people, known or otherwise. I just said "a surprising number of people". To clarify, so you don't have to lie about it again, it includes people on message forums across various websites, in YT comments across numerous videos, it's people on Twitch Streams, on-stream, and in the chat, etc. As far as people I know personally, that would be only one.
There, now you don't have to lie about that anymore. You're welcome.
This makes zero sense to me. Most people who play FFXIV could not stand FFXI. It does not survive today's standards of MMO gameplay. All the complaints in this thread about slow gameplay, and someone here honestly thinks theres some exodus from FFXIV to a game that came out in 2001?
You're arguing from incredulity, which is a logical fallacy. Because you can't believe something could be true doesn't mean it isn't. Ignorance of something isn't an argument against it.
Also, I didn't say nor imply an "exodus", just as I didn't say "everyone". I said "a surprising number". Once again, you're being dishonest and distorting my words.
Knock it off.
EDIT: One more thing I want to point out. WoW is lucky to get one new raid in a year.
Which is wonderful if you're part of the very small population who raids, or cares at all about it, I guess. Not so meaningful if you're part of the vast majority who doesn't. In that case, you get a batch of content that's cleared inside of 2 weeks, and then are back in a holding pattern, doing the same crap ad nauseum for another 3 months, to repeat the process all over. If there's one thing Yoshida's consistent at, it's making things really repetitive.
FFXIV has a much better content update schedule. Almost freakishly fast. I don't know what kind of sweat shop SE is running but Heavensward has only been out for a little over a year and they've already finished the MSQ of the next expansion. All while releasing new dungeons, MSQ, and raids, pvp stuff, and loads of polish material and feature fetish bi-monthly. This is nothing to scoff at.
You've read my previous posts in this thread, right? You noticed the part where I mention that I've played and supported FFXIV since 1.0, up through 1.23b, into 2.0 and up to 3.2, only missing 3.3? Assuming you have, why are you telling me all this? Are you trying to convince me, or your yourself?
Or maybe that bit isn't for me at all, but for others who might be reading. Are you evangelizing for SE a bit, maybe? Got your Moghome pom-poms out and all?
Well, had more to respond to, but had to clip stuff out, due to character limit (don't think they had that on the old site). Ah well.
I was indeed speaking generally. Sure I responded to some of your... points. But I didn't bother to quote because really my response on each was really just my opinion on the subject. I began by pointing out that how each person feels about a game is pretty subjective. Which means you've given your opinions, and I've now given mine. Asking a question in response to a statement you made is not a straw-man. Your odd method of twisting here is kind of ironic.
For one, I am hardly unreasonable to come to the conclusion that most modern day MMO players could not stand FFXI. FFXIV 1.0 was practically a carbon copy of the UI, combat, and character motion. Most people hated it. Tanaka was just too old for this.
People need to stop dragging out the "you saved a failed MMO! How does it feel to be a hero?!" type questions already.
That was 3 years ago. It's old news. It's time to stop dwelling on past glories and start asking *challenging*, and insightful questions about where the game is now, and where it will be going forward.
So, where is FFXIV now? What's the "pulse" of the community? Well, a recent thread on the official forums had people actually debating about whether glamour/fluff is as important as gameplay content. Think about that.
Further, a surprising number of people in that thread argued that fluff is more important, or at least equal. One person said they're okay with resources going to more gameplay content, as long as it doesn't cut into their glamour/fluff items. Another said, to paraphrase, that fluff is more important "because it lasts longer, while gameplay content becomes obsolete very quickly".
Now, as silly as that might sound on its face - it's actually 100% true. Glamour items *are* actually the only things that remain relevant in this game. And this is by Yoshida's design. After all, he's the Director and Producer. He calls the shots, and this is the environment he's fostering.
It's as common, even more so at times, to see threads talking about wanting some glamour item available in another region, or for more hair styles/clothing/mounts/minions to be added to the Mog Station, than it is to see people discussing actual story/combat/adventure type content.
It's a damning indictment of how Yoshida and his team have been slipping with XIV's development, especially since 3.0. I've never seen a MMORPG so aggressively driven by designed obsolescence as FFXIV. Most of the the content is burned through within days, if not hours, of release, including the high-end/end-game content. Then it's all rendered obsolete with the next update.
Where actual content is concerned, the goodwill earned in the 2.0 days has been depleting more with every lackluster and/or short-lived content update. Not that you'd know it reading interviews or articles, which just keep regurgitating how "Yoshida saved FFXIV", and other softball topics.
But here's another sign which, I think, is even more telling...
People are beginning to leave FFXIV for FFXI, seeking a deeper, more engaging and lasting MMORPG experience still focused on a sense of grand Adventure in a vast, dangerous world. It's not just veterans who are returning, either. New players picking it up for the first time, as well.
Let me reiterate that. Players are leaving a 3 year-old (not including 1.x) "modern MMORPG" still in its first expansion cycle, to play one that's effectively in an extended maintenance mode - and are finding it more enjoyable.
Just chew on that for a moment, because it's poignant.
*That* is the state of FFXIV at the moment. And *that* is how it will continue going forward if Yoshida doesn't get his head out of the clouds (or where ever he has it), and get back into that frame of mind he had with 2.0, where he actually acted like someone with something to prove.
I'd love to see an interviewer, for once, ask some tougher questions, and knock it off with these softball questions, asking Yoshida to reflect - yet again - on how he "saved FFXIV".
Agreed, and I'm really hoping for some good news out of the next live letter, because the direction FFXIV is currently heading (and AFAIK plans to head for at least the next few patches) is nothing but a recipe for a slow death.
I think vertical progression is OK, and should happen at some point, but the rate FFXIV is on at the moment is just too much, and the worst part is the new content doesn't even feel any more challenging than last lot (200/200 = 1 = 250/250) so it may as well all be the same iLevel and just give different skins / stats mixes; at least that way it wouldn't invalidate other content (e.g. hunts).
Comments
i would have said more like you have but i expected crap like what that guy said. Im almost exactly in the same situation. Bought a collectors edition of 1.0, hated it initially but ended up really liking it after they added jobs and whatnot around 1.2x. ARR wasnt my cup of tea but i played it anyway until HW and only played for about a month or 2 into it before i realized its just more of the same patch design and a lot of the things about the game i disliked were not going anywhere. I'd list them all out but this would go on for way too long and ive already said lots of it in previous posts. Like you i really wanted it to become something more since its the only modern MMO to keep my attention long and being a long time FFXI player and FF fan in general i wanted love it...but i really cant.
Now hearing my favorite old podcast (limitbreakradio) basically being really down about the game and noticing a lot of the flaws as of late, it makes me think maybe im not the only one and there are enough people wanting a change....and that maybe...just maybe the devs hear it and do some big changes, but i know i should hold my breath.
More on to what many people are saying though, it has a lot of potential and is still young in mmorpg terms, but it needs to change its formula sooner rather than later. Its not as popular as people honestly think it is.
Congrats on the success but EVE actually was the first comeback in MMO history, long before FFXIV was a thought
You are completely right with everything said about FF14. No sense of adventure and no value in weapons and gear long term. FF11 has great value for weapons and gear in the longer term. It's always an adventure the grinding,farming, and camping NMs pays off. FF14 was good at 1st but lacks alot of stuff. I can go back to FF14 in 5 years from now and be caught up to someone who has been playing for years within a 1 month..
High five MitovoGames well said I'm all your comments.
The games content is negated and finished way to quick, and the content comes too slowly for how it is designed. If you play more then 10hrs a week you get bored before the next content patch. And the devs seem more focused on fluff/vanity stuff instead of lasting things that impact the game.
FFXIV has a really hard time holding onto veteran players atm, look at the recent census people did on the lodestone only 250ish thousand people have the title for the main story which is required to unlock content. That alone is a bad sign considering it is easy to get takes 2-4 weeks tops to get to as a newer player if you actual play the game.
Game is still healthy but if not fixed the new player will stop coming eventually like in all mmos, and then the games population will plummet over time.
Being a hardcore FF fan and someone who loved FFXI (The old one not the new garbage version). I want this game to be great, but as for now it is just living in WoW's shadow more or less. It is shiny the lore and story are great but for a mmo that is about it. It is simply a casual themepark style mmo with content that last a fraction of the time as other AAA titles.
Yoshida turned a game that was launched about 2 yrs too early around into the best WoW clone in the genre ok props to that, but that is all the credit he should get.
Oh yes, I've been listening to LBR and noticing the same thing. They really want to enjoy it - hell, they have a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears into that Podcast, and, aside from Nika who's happy as long as there's raiding, you can tell they're reaching for *anything* they can find to try and enjoy the game again.
My comments about people finding XI to be more enjoyable includes (but is not limited to) some of their cast whom are playing XI more than XIV these days. I sent them a pretty lengthy email earlier today discussing that very topic. Not sure they'll read it on air or not - it's pretty long lol. But yeah... it's a sad situation.
I really wish people would stop pushing out this strawman about people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI part 2.
There are very, very, very few people who actually want a FFXI 2.0 - and among them, most would prefer it to be SE re-launching XI with a better game/graphics engine, and some modern touches that don't diminish the classic, core experience.
The whole "wanting FFXIV to be FFXI-2" is a myth that has been debunked so many times, in so many places, in excruciating detail, with specific examples and explanations provided. At this point, anyone still spewing that nonsense is being dishonest. Period. It's not a valid argument. It never was. It's just an attempt to shut down and dismiss critical opinions.
For myself, I'd be happy to see them go back to the level of development and dedication they showed leading up to 1.23b, and into 2.0. I'd like to see them be more innovative, and be more creative, instead of rehashing the same systems, giving them a new coat of paint and calling it something different. I'd like to see them introduce systems that remain relevant for more than a couple weeks before people are back in a holding pattern, waiting for the next update, to start the whole process over again. I want FFXIV to be FFXIV... I just want it to be a better FFXIV than it currently is.
So, anyway... Can we please, pretty please, with sugar on top... stop spreading that lie about people wanting XIV to be XI-2? Please? Maybe start to address criticisms of FFXIV honestly, without resorting to strawmen? At least try? Thanks. Appreciate it.
Same here. I loved FFXI for what it was and would love to see some of the good ideas be brought over, but id rather FFXIV be different. I think XIV just took too heavily from modern games (mostly WoW) which we have seen over and over again. Honestly i was enjoying what 1.2x was becoming, it just needed the content, the copy/paste world to be redone and add a few modern conveniences and i would have enjoyed if for a long time. Sadly they tossed out anything decent they implemented to just make yet another standard current MMO but prettier, an FF skin and being more polished.
If fan fest shows that the new expansion is going to be what HW was which is the same old design but with new areas and a couple gimicks thrown it then im going to write this game off (along with what seems to be most of the LBR crew) and never look at another FFXIV related post ever again.
It's great news to hear some progress on the next expansion, and that the main scenario is completed already.
Yeah. Agreed. By the end of 1.23, I was legitimately enjoying FFXIV. They'd gotten the gameplay to a good place, the story was ramping up to be something very interesting, and really all the game needed was better graphics engine and better infrastructure. I, and I know many others, assumed 2.0 was going to pick up where 1.23b left off.
Instead, Yoshida threw all of that out the window, removed things that were not only a solid foundation for content in XIV, but staples of the FF series itself. He decided to hitch himself, and the game, to WoW's shadow. And that's not exaggeration. I've never seen a game developer cite WoW, or its players so directly as a direct barometer of what to do in FFXIV.
As just one major example... Jumping potions. No one in XIV's community was asking for those. At the very least, if anyone was, it was so few that no one even noticed. Yet, Yoshida comes forth in that infamous interview, and says "well, WoW has them", and says how WoW players he knows have asked why they didn't add them with 3.0. That moment was one of the catalysts for me saying "enough". Why is he giving weight to what WoW players think about a game they aren't playing, and he isn't developing? Why is he citing what WoW players think, or what WoW does, while ignoring or dismissing numerous *valid* requests and reasonable suggestions from his own playerbase, going back as far as 2.x? And again, that's just one of the more egregious examples of how he's dragging XIV around in WoW's shadow. It's, by far, not the only one.
Maybe he should just go work for Blizzard. Then he can actually work on WoW, instead of just pretending to. Just a thought.
Anyway, I digress...
If they show anything at FanFest, it'll just be an announcement, and perhaps some footage of areas, creatures, characters, etc, like they did with HW. Folks won't get to see what it's really about 'til they actually get to play it.
And even then, HW started off strong - very strong, in fact. The lead-in from 2.5 to HW was so well done. But then, instead of making some of those major events "stick" as serious story elements, they used them as a convenient way to give existing characters a make-over, with a little story thrown in. Well except for Sultana and Princess Pea... I mean Minfillia. Though at least Minfillia's existence finally became useful.
After that, it really did become just a rehash of 2.x, with a different paint job, and larger, but overall less interesting zones. Though I did enjoy some of the content... the new Primal fights were pretty fun.
Hey drivendawn? If you're going to make snarky passive-aggressive swipes at what I say, can you at least not be so blatantly dishonest about it?
I *said*, and I quote:
The myth isn't that people have said it at all. I directly acknowledged that some people do.
The myth - the strawman - is when people, like you, take any suggestion of FFXIV introducing content with the level of engagement, longevity and depth much of XI's has/had, and dishonestly twist it into "people wanting FFXIV to be FFXI 2.0".
Do you get it now? Has it sunken in?
Can you please stop being dishonest with what other people say? Thank you.
The reason is simple,too much trying to be like WoW,a very linear game towards raid/zoning,instead of being a total package game.EVERy single thing else you do is rather meaningless,it is always the same reason,hit said Boss for said tier of gear,the same reason i quit playing FFXi,i don't like games designed around raid/zones and forced gear progression.
A MMO+RPG should be about role playing,MMO elements and within the main world.
Also i am looking for a game to come out and do a better job with classes and combat than what FFXI did,FFXIV does not do it and so far neither does anyone else.Too bad because the template is there,Square knew how but rushed FFXIV out the blocks and ruined the entire structure because of it.
Point being that yes,FFXIV is a better game than most out there,but i am looking for an improved FFXI not a weaker version with better graphics,that is not a good trade off for me.Better game and better graphics then most certainly.
I also feel Square missed the boat on what they did wrong in the past and that was make leveling a meaningless point of the game.Levels SHOULD be done with groups and ANYWHERE in the game world.Levels should be slower and have meaning so that any item or craft yo uhave worked for can have some long term meaning rather than 10 minutes of use and replace.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For the bit in bold, I've summed it up like this...
FFXIV could just as well be called "World of Final Fantasy" at this point, without irony.
Not only because of Yoshida's openly stated reliance on WoW as a blueprint, or beause it so blatantly follows that WoW-style themepark design.
Also because of the amount of blatant cross-game tie-ins being added, whether directly or through the mog station. He's not even trying to keep Eorzea as a unique and discrete world anymore. He's turning it into a fan service simulator.
Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual to decide. For me, I preferred 1.x Eorzea, when it still felt like a unique, separate world.
It is the perfect feature fetish for people who look for a lot of customization. Even I, who is easy to please, find myself surprised at how it seems every patch comes out with some polish about a function to make it work even better, when it was already fine (imo).
I do not see the cross-over fan service as a negative. The main story quests (MSQs) are only lightly impacted with the involvement of certain characters from other games (Kryle, Matoya etc). These characters are usually just a reference in name alone, and sometimes in character design. Their story and role is unique to FFXIV and they do not waltz in from some other universe. The ones that actually DO waltz in from their universe (Lightning event, Shantoto etc) are side quests that have nothing to do with the actual story of the game. It is a pretty poor argument to hold this against the game.
I also fail to see this relation to this 'WoW blueprint'. Final Fantasy came first in the realm of story telling. It has always been central to every title in the series. It is nothing but the same here. The main progression with content updates revolves around the main story of course. It does so stronger than most other games where story is an afterthought. Is it the same for WoW? Sure. But why is anyone acting like FFXIV is somehow "copying" this? Because WoW is the strongest example in recent history? They certainly didn't do it "first".
People are leaving FFXIV for FFXI? What? Just because you know a group of people who may have done this is hardly implying that 'everyone' is leaving FFXIV for the older game. This makes zero sense to me. Most people who play FFXIV could not stand FFXI. It does not survive today's standards of MMO gameplay. All the complaints in this thread about slow gameplay, and someone here honestly thinks theres some exodus from FFXIV to a game that came out in 2001?
Don't get me wrong, I miss and love FFXI dearly. It was in its prime during a time where people focused on community interaction over racing to the content finish line. I wish more games today were like this too. But alas we live in different standards now. And guess what? It is only going to change again in the next 10 years.
Lastly I'll just offer my own personal opinion of what FFXIV is like for me, because that is all we can really offer here. FFXIV to me is simply another Final Fantasy story to play through. I sub maybe 4-5 months out of a year just to catch up on all the content updates. I haven't really fallen into that pit where I need one certain game of my life to stay relevant 24/7. So for what FFXIV offers here, I am perfectly content with it. I think as long as you love the story then you should find FFXIV to be a great game as well. There certainly is a lot to do if you really want to spend more time on it, for sure. But that doesn't really matter to me. You could say that I don't really treat it like an MMO (is that really a bad thing to do these days? Most of them are garbage.)
EDIT: One more thing I want to point out. WoW is lucky to get one new raid in a year. They especially seem to slow down in the year leading up to an expansion. FFXIV has a much better content update schedule. Almost freakishly fast. I don't know what kind of sweat shop SE is running but Heavensward has only been out for a little over a year and they've already finished the MSQ of the next expansion. All while releasing new dungeons, MSQ, and raids, pvp stuff, and loads of polish material and feature fetish bi-monthly. This is nothing to scoff at.
You're straw-manning here, again.
Quote me stating that WoW came before FF in the realm of story-telling. Go on. I'll wait. Now you're lying. I never said, nor even implied that 'everyone' is leaving FFXIV...
It's amazing how often I have to quote myself, from the same thread no less, because people like you can't have an honest discussion, and make shit up.
My exact words were: Saying "a surprising number of people" is not saying or even implying "everyone". If I meant to say "everyone", I would have said "everyone".
And you continue to lie with claiming I said it was "a group of people I know". I didn't identify it as any particular group of people, known or otherwise. I just said "a surprising number of people". To clarify, so you don't have to lie about it again, it includes people on message forums across various websites, in YT comments across numerous videos, it's people on Twitch Streams, on-stream, and in the chat, etc. As far as people I know personally, that would be only one.
There, now you don't have to lie about that anymore. You're welcome. You're arguing from incredulity, which is a logical fallacy. Because you can't believe something could be true doesn't mean it isn't. Ignorance of something isn't an argument against it.
Also, I didn't say nor imply an "exodus", just as I didn't say "everyone". I said "a surprising number". Once again, you're being dishonest and distorting my words.
Knock it off. Which is wonderful if you're part of the very small population who raids, or cares at all about it, I guess. Not so meaningful if you're part of the vast majority who doesn't. In that case, you get a batch of content that's cleared inside of 2 weeks, and then are back in a holding pattern, doing the same crap ad nauseum for another 3 months, to repeat the process all over. If there's one thing Yoshida's consistent at, it's making things really repetitive.
You've read my previous posts in this thread, right? You noticed the part where I mention that I've played and supported FFXIV since 1.0, up through 1.23b, into 2.0 and up to 3.2, only missing 3.3? Assuming you have, why are you telling me all this? Are you trying to convince me, or your yourself?
Or maybe that bit isn't for me at all, but for others who might be reading. Are you evangelizing for SE a bit, maybe? Got your Moghome pom-poms out and all?
Well, had more to respond to, but had to clip stuff out, due to character limit (don't think they had that on the old site). Ah well.
For one, I am hardly unreasonable to come to the conclusion that most modern day MMO players could not stand FFXI. FFXIV 1.0 was practically a carbon copy of the UI, combat, and character motion. Most people hated it. Tanaka was just too old for this.
Agreed, and I'm really hoping for some good news out of the next live letter, because the direction FFXIV is currently heading (and AFAIK plans to head for at least the next few patches) is nothing but a recipe for a slow death.
I think vertical progression is OK, and should happen at some point, but the rate FFXIV is on at the moment is just too much, and the worst part is the new content doesn't even feel any more challenging than last lot (200/200 = 1 = 250/250) so it may as well all be the same iLevel and just give different skins / stats mixes; at least that way it wouldn't invalidate other content (e.g. hunts).