No Man's Sky and MMO's

DrCokePepsi · August 2016

To anyone who feels totally shocked and betrayed in the failure, con, and disappointment that is: No Man's Sky, this has been the state of the MMORPG industry for around a decade. Why? Because the MMORPG players who have enjoyed the industry, i mean truly appreciated MMO's for what they are, have been playing MMO's since Ultima.

Of course there are some newcomers to the MMORPG industry who appreciate it for what it used to embody, and that's A-ok, but the point here is: WoW screwed everything up by accident and since the massive landslide of the casual mmo gamer, the niche market that used to be MMO's is now, quite literally, entirely composed of WoW-clones. And this is a shame because the "small crowd" of people are facing the entirely possible chance of never seeing a true-to-the-genre MMORPG as they used to be, for the one reason that they are surrounded by hordes of 'casual' gamers. Casual gamers are not, in and of themselves, problems for being casual; but they are the cause for statistics to point in directions that serious gamers despise. It is also in the hands of the developers for not being true to the hobby that is gaming, but for going where the money is, and that is where these statistics point them.

That is the problem right there: the gaming community as a whole doesn't care enough, and the gaming industry has turned into a cash-venture rather than an art. Messes like No Man's Sky KEEP happening because everyone is just YEARNING for an actual, quality game that doesn't capitalize on the hopes and dreams of everyone, but delivers, truly, what it is that they want. Sean Murray, the man behind No-Man's Sky maliciously took advantage of the "dream" game that everyone wanted and lied about it, to our face. Full-on, outright, LIED to the gaming community, and that is okay because the gaming industry is entirely immature and unprofessional in almost every aspect for the most part. I have never seen industry events held in a more unprofessional way, nor have I seen more biased reviews and coverage on material than what currently exists in the gaming industry. The games that get the most coverage are the games that made the most money? Hmmm....

These factors deplete the industry's credibility in being taken seriously by anybody other than those that know what it's like to truly enjoy a game, and anything goes when it comes to anything business related because the community just accepts it; in fact, the community often contradicts itself and conflicts with the directions it should be going...this is very noticeable in any forum you go to. That being said, we don't have an entire community of people who lash-out at the poor, misleading, dishonest, and inaccurate remarks made by Sean Murray in advertising this game, but we have a quarter of the community who even know about what it is that he has said, then out of that quarter you have another quarter who doesn't care at all because they're enjoying the game for the 10 minutes that they invested, and you have those who are justifying Murray's actions by saying "Oh these poor developers spending all that time, and they need money to do all those things, I'm sure they'll add it" And then out of that you have an even smaller portion who actually care enough to do anything about it, and at that point it doesn't matter because Sean Murray has made absolute BANK off of our unfortunate and stupid tendency to buy into every single "O look! Open world sandbox with every feature known to man! This wont be a failure or a lie!" hype-train that exists.

He has won, and so hasn't every other single developer that we 'hate'. And they keep on winning because the gaming community is just a failure and a mess.

I wish there were some force that could bring to gamer's attention the fact that our industry is being stepped and stomped on and we're totally letting it happen. Personally, I think MMO's take MOST of the blunt trauma from this b.s., but at the same rate I am noticing that it is far more prevalent in the gaming industry as a whole in general, non-genre specifically now. A quick glance at steam reveals all the abandoned 'pre-alpha' projects that screwed us over, and on top of that the dumbing down of every single beloved game series is noticeable and cringeworthy, not even to mention in-game cash-shops and being taken advantage of, fully, by DLC. We have to stop the continual release of crap that has been assembled by conveyor belt in a factory. We need developers who are willing to create games motivated by their passion for gaming not their lust for financial gain.

Gamer54321 · August 2016

I suspect that people are actually stupid and dumb.
I ALSO suspect that game developers also are stupid and dumb.

One character flaw would be to no know the limitations of ones concrete ideas and concepts, maybe even muddling the subject matter with vague descriptions and nonsense appraise where none is deserved.

JamesGoblin · August 2016

Speaking of community members, my favorite comment comes from Penny Arcade - "No problem, they'll add MMO after launch" (I mentioned that some articles even labeled NMS as MMO earlier).

Just snap your fingers and...

anemo · August 2016

No Man's Sky wasn't bad, it was a functional and capable game for something made from a team that was about a dozen people. I'd say that the disappointment was the mutual fault of the devs and community, The dev isn't going to come out and say "We're just another generic dime a dozen survival game, with procedural generation", And the community just would not shut up despite knowing exactly how many people were developing and how few man hours were being put into it.

Gamer54321 · August 2016

Really? A capable game?

What things would be considered realistic, or, remotely interesting in No Mans Sky?

Surely, not space flight model, from what I've seen in videos. Just arcade spaceship movement.
Surely, not combat model, having just arcade options, with no flight sim qualities what so ever.
Surely, not the narrative experience. The game pretty much having no meaningful ending that justifies the previous time spent on the repetitive and seemingly monotone gameplay.
Surely, not replayability. Seemingly lacking player options, making the game nothing but a shallow theme part visit.
Surely, not an adventure. Things seemingly being repetitive, gaming the game is all there is to it, i.e nothing.
Surely, No Mans Sky is indistinguishable from a tech demo, with gameplay being seemingly super shallow, relying on the spectacle of this gimmick of procedural colors and shapes on the screen.

DrCokePepsi · August 2016

anemo said:

No Man's Sky wasn't bad, it was a functional and capable game for something made from a team that was about a dozen people. I'd say that the disappointment was the mutual fault of the devs and community, The dev isn't going to come out and say "We're just another generic dime a dozen survival game, with procedural generation", And the community just would not shut up despite knowing exactly how many people were developing and how few man hours were being put into it.

For what a team of a dozen developers accomplished, this is "reasonable" but is is the design of the game that lacks. Perhaps the features they have implemented were difficult to pull off and were very time consuming or could even be considered a commendable achievement, but the problem is that the entirety of the game is just monotony.

Games aren't simply a showcase of impressive features, they have to be fun. This is something that the creators of No Man's Sky failed to ensure after about an hour or two of gameplay. Any new game is fun, in fact I can actually counter this with: some of the best games I have ever played in my life were boring for the first hour or two and then picked up into a game that I would form some of the fondest memories in. Not to say that's the case with all games, but you can't base a game on just how fun it is during your first impressions.

This game deserves every attack it receives. Sean Murray is a weak man, he lied and baited SO many people into playing this game. They weren't even subjective lies, they were objectively false claims based on a rich economy, and multiplayer features, and a wealth of unique flying mechanics etc.. He is also weak for being incapable of accurately representing his company in an honest manner because he couldn't talk about it like a man, he was too shy and passive to admit that: No, this game does not have multiplayer, and he couldn't say, No, this game does not have a rich economy. Obviously, being that it is a game that he needs to sell he can explain it in a not so obvious manner but he lied, outright, and that is unacceptable.

I do understand where your coming from, and at a glance it may seem that this is harsh treatment but this is what this man deserves for kicking the image of the industry while its already down.

Octagon7711 · August 2016

It pays not to believe any hype about games and I've had the best purchases when I waited till after launch to see how a game really is. Games that have a successful track record like third in a series I'll take a chance on and rarely disappoint. New games with Devs going off on their own for the first time is a big gamble.

goboygo · August 2016

Amazing post, simply profound summation of the state of gaming.

DrDread74 · August 2016

The OP is totally wrong. No Mans Sky is only being called a failure over a couple of things that weren't in the game. Where's the giant Snake and you actually can't multiplayer at all. That's it, that's where all the complaints arise from and that's not what sold anyone on the game. You CAN trade items, you CAN fight pirates or BE a pirate and you definitely CAN explore, you CAN meet aliens and solve puzzles. It is you who tried to pump the game up WAAAAY beyond what it advertising in the first couple paragraphs of its description that have demonized it.

NMS is an ORIGNAL INDIE game. You CAN DO in NMS what you CAN"T do in any other game I can think of save MAYBE minecraft. If that's not fun to you, don't play it, it's different and honestly refreshing that it's not another clone of every other game out there.

The reason why games are all the same is because that's what sells to the masses. All us hard core MMO players are NOT the majority. All us Hardcore MMOS players are asking for a game that would take 1.3 billion dollars to build that you want to play for FREE while critizing every minute detail of it. You are the really bas customer at the fast food joint.

DrCokePepsi · August 2016

DrDread74 said:

The OP is totally wrong. No Mans Sky is only being called a failure over a couple of things that weren't in the game. Where's the giant Snake and you actually can't multiplayer at all. That's it, that's where all the complaints arise from and that's not what sold anyone on the game. You CAN trade items, you CAN fight pirates or BE a pirate and you definitely CAN explore, you CAN meet aliens and solve puzzles. It is you who tried to pump the game up WAAAAY beyond what it advertising in the first couple paragraphs of its description that have demonized it.
NMS is an ORIGNAL INDIE game. You CAN DO in NMS what you CAN"T do in any other game I can think of save MAYBE minecraft. If that's not fun to you, don't play it, it's different and honestly refreshing that it's not another clone of every other game out there.
The reason why games are all the same is because that's what sells to the masses. All us hard core MMO players are NOT the majority. All us Hardcore MMOS players are asking for a game that would take 1.3 billion dollars to build that you want to play for FREE while critizing every minute detail of it. You are the really bas customer at the fast food joint.

I have a few qualms with an otherwise reasonable response.

Judging from your response, I realize that you are entirely okay with being lied to by a game developer for the sole reason of pumping the game way out of proportion as you said. This is objectively wrong because while you have a good respect for what you believe to be the average developer, he solidified his disrespect in you specifically, and everyone else who saw or heard anything about NMS because he doesn't value giving you the truth and an honest summation of the game in return for your purchase, he lied to take peoples money...and a LOT of it too, considering it is an indie game. He knew this hype existed, he built it himself and he completely capitalized on it.

That being said, I don't believe having *some* of those promised features justifies not having them at all despite an implied promise in simply stating that these mechanics and features would exist. This man, among many, is the reason why our industry is in such a poor state, but good people like yourself, continually let these problems slide by because you look for the better half. I don't blame you for wanting to justify this man's hard work, but at the same rate he conned so many people, and he took their money gladly while basing his success off of lies.

Not wanting to delve into a debate based on the 'originality' of the content in NMS, I'm going to skip right to the part where you share the common misconception, a point of view maintained by too many mmo players, that the game we want will be so costly and unattainable. What is this based off of? What experience do all of these people have that they can make such a claim that this open, livable world is so impossible?

It is unlikely as of now, and this is true, but that is a simple matter of demographics and financial opportunity. These claims are not correct and it is too easy of an excuse to fling out "that game would be impossible" rather than looking into the actual reasons that no large developer, capable of this, is going to tackle such a project. It is true, it would be an expensive project, but the expense reflects the scope and the management of the project as well as what the actual focus is.

See, I have played this mythical beast called "Open Virtual World MMO's", the one we're all actually striving for. They used to just be called MMORPG's until the very name and definition of MMORPG was misconstrued and defiled beyond recognition to the point that league of legends has been considered and MMO and games like guild wars 2 and World of Warcraft are the only point of references for an MMO nowadays and those are incredibly poor examples, even granted the GW2 is considered an mmo at all.

"Star Wars Galaxies", "Asheron's Call", "Ultima online", "Eve online", even "Runescape" used to be more of an mmo than anything these days. They had exactly what I wanted and could enjoy...but the problem is, nobody makes those anymore. It is entirely possible, and on top of that all you would need today to make a good MMORPG is to take the same inspiration and depth of mechanics from the old-school mmo's and buff up the graphics a bit. On top of that, we could use the level of technology we have today to bring the mechanics to an even deeper level, and it would be a game that would satisfy our community beyond comprehension.

On top of that, I think that's the wrong community thats whining for free games, all of the hard-core mmo gamers, or at least the reasonable ones, respect, or even like myself, yearn for the pay to play format. All of this cash-shop, b2p, p2w, gold-gems, in-game cosmetic shop crap is just unacceptable, and quite frankly scummy.

OneEyeRed · August 2016

No man's sky was a blatant example of bait and switch and Sean Murray lied repeatedly about many things. Go to Steam and see the numbers and reviews they speak for themselves there alone. Last look it dropped to 49% positive but the fan boys will tell you that the 51% is loony toons.

You know what, I won't argue about the NMS train wreck piece of junk. I would just like my $60.00 back because in its current state it isn't worth $10.00. There are much better Indie companies producing way better Indie games and Hello Games has now tarnished the reputation of the Indie developers as a whole.

ApexTKM · August 2016

I am confused what No Man's Sky lied about, the game is what they advertised, its just people lying to themselves by setting expectations only to deceive themselves. But yea, WoW unintentionally hurt the genre.....well at least hurt the now considered minority who've played since UO, EQ, or SWG. They did hurt the genre though because other mmos are simply a wow clone which only spreads out the playerbase.

Will MMOs stop releasing like candy? Not likely considering all the people trying to make money off of the genre unless people stop buying a new mmo every month. Then maybe all those people trying to make money off of MMOs will bug off.

goboygo · August 2016

ApexTKM said:

I am confused what No Man's Sky lied about, the game is what they advertised, its just people lying to themselves by setting expectations only to deceive themselves. But yea, WoW unintentionally hurt the genre.....well at least hurt the now considered minority who've played since UO, EQ, or SWG. They did hurt the genre though because other mmos are simply a wow clone which only spreads out the playerbase.

Will MMOs stop releasing like candy? Not likely considering all the people trying to make money off of the genre unless people stop buying a new mmo every month. Then maybe all those people trying to make money off of MMOs will bug off.

You are confused about what they lied about? Is that because you know nothing about the prelease statements made by Hello games right up until release that were never fulfilled, or even possible in the games current state, or you cant comprehend whats going on in general? I dont mean to be offensive but I really don't understand your confusion.

ApexTKM · August 2016

goboygo said:

You are confused about what they lied about? Is that because you know nothing about the prelease statements made by Hello games right up until release that were never fulfilled, or even possible in the games current state, or you cant comprehend whats going on in general? I dont mean to be offensive but I really don't understand your confusion.

Why don't you be productive and point me in the direction where they lied. I don't understand how what you said was offensive. I mean the first time we got a look at the game a year ago or so, they mentioned a procedural generated world, people's expectations are weird man. They think of star citizen and elite dangerous...... like what.

Its like when I was an idiot when I picked up swtor thinking it was SWG 2.0. I should have saw the list of classes and automatically lose interest but I got it cause other swg people I know picked it up so I was like whatever, but I was still an idiot when I picked up swtor.

So anyways, yea, show me where they lied because clearly all I've seen was people deceiving themselves, prove me wrong.

DrCokePepsi · August 2016

ApexTKM said:

goboygo said:

You are confused about what they lied about? Is that because you know nothing about the prelease statements made by Hello games right up until release that were never fulfilled, or even possible in the games current state, or you cant comprehend whats going on in general? I dont mean to be offensive but I really don't understand your confusion.

Why don't you be productive and point me in the direction where they lied. I don't understand how what you said was offensive. I mean the first time we got a look at the game a year ago or so, they mentioned a procedural generated world, people's expectations are weird man. They think of star citizen and elite dangerous...... like what.

Its like when I was an idiot when I picked up swtor thinking it was SWG 2.0. I should have saw the list of classes and automatically lose interest but I got it cause other swg people I know picked it up so I was like whatever, but I was still an idiot when I picked up swtor.

So anyways, yea, show me where they lied because clearly all I've seen was people deceiving themselves, prove me wrong.

Without going into detail as to what specifically they lied about, because I'm sure I mentioned in the original post(correction: vaguely hinted at), check out Jimquisition's video.

At the very least, though I do recommend you watch this in it's entirety if you wish to understand the situation, the meat of the video and the 'lie-reel' begins at 13:16.

There really is no argument to defend their claims, they objectively lied.

Also, noticed your username is ApexTKM ... is that alluding to the almighty, whoopass SWG Teras Kasi Master??

let me edit this a 3rd time: Apex; your banner for Repop? Totally. Your quote concerning the next great MMORPG, I am so on the same page. Lets be friends lol.

Let me also ask: Do you develop games? If so PM me.

ApexTKM · August 2016

DrCokePepsi said:

Without going into detail as to what specifically they lied about, because I'm sure I mentioned in the original post(correction: vaguely hinted at), check out Jimquisition's video.

At the very least, though I do recommend you watch this in it's entirety if you wish to understand the situation, the meat of the video and the 'lie-reel' begins at 13:16.

There really is no argument to defend their claims, they objectively lied.

Also, noticed your username is ApexTKM ... is that alluding to the almighty, whoopass SWG Teras Kasi Master??

let me edit this a 3rd time: Apex; your banner for Repop? Totally. Your quote concerning the next great MMORPG, I am so on the same page. Lets be friends lol.

Let me also ask: Do you develop games? If so PM me.

Yea, now I see its a debatable topic. For example the people who blame the players for falling for it will probably say, "If the marketing was that vague shouldn't you be more hesitant about buying the game in the first place." The other perspective is, "Thats still pretty deceiving marketing by making really short statements and Sean Murray is hesitant to elaborate on what he said, I mean not everyone would think to be hesitant because something was pretty vague, plus in some cases they announced features that didn't even make it into the final product."

So from my perspective now after gaining all that knowledge, yea their implied, vague statements are considered lies to me. Plus the mention of removing a lot of what was said to be in the game makes Hello Games look bad. So basically, Sean Murray is the new version of John Smedley. I can already see people suing the crap out of Hello Games for this. I agree with "The other perspective" at the same time I can see why people would point their finger at the players for falling for it.

Yes my username is referring to SWG Teras Kasi Master

. Yes I'm all about the repop and would promote that all day erra day. I don't develop games but I wish I would xD.

rensta · August 2016

Just wait for people to review it.....

Kyleran · August 2016

ApexTKM said:

goboygo said:

You are confused about what they lied about? Is that because you know nothing about the prelease statements made by Hello games right up until release that were never fulfilled, or even possible in the games current state, or you cant comprehend whats going on in general? I dont mean to be offensive but I really don't understand your confusion.

Why don't you be productive and point me in the direction where they lied. I don't understand how what you said was offensive. I mean the first time we got a look at the game a year ago or so, they mentioned a procedural generated world, people's expectations are weird man. They think of star citizen and elite dangerous...... like what.

Its like when I was an idiot when I picked up swtor thinking it was SWG 2.0. I should have saw the list of classes and automatically lose interest but I got it cause other swg people I know picked it up so I was like whatever, but I was still an idiot when I picked up swtor.

So anyways, yea, show me where they lied because clearly all I've seen was people deceiving themselves, prove me wrong.

Watch Angry Joe's full review, he goes over point by point every missing feature by showing a video clip of the dev promise, and in game footage of what you actually get ( or don't get)

You were lied to regardless whether you didn't realize it or enjoy what you did receive.

DrCokePepsi · August 2016

ApexTKM said:

DrCokePepsi said:

Without going into detail as to what specifically they lied about, because I'm sure I mentioned in the original post(correction: vaguely hinted at), check out Jimquisition's video.

At the very least, though I do recommend you watch this in it's entirety if you wish to understand the situation, the meat of the video and the 'lie-reel' begins at 13:16.

There really is no argument to defend their claims, they objectively lied.

Also, noticed your username is ApexTKM ... is that alluding to the almighty, whoopass SWG Teras Kasi Master??

let me edit this a 3rd time: Apex; your banner for Repop? Totally. Your quote concerning the next great MMORPG, I am so on the same page. Lets be friends lol.

Let me also ask: Do you develop games? If so PM me.

Yea, now I see its a debatable topic. For example the people who blame the players for falling for it will probably say, "If the marketing was that vague shouldn't you be more hesitant about buying the game in the first place." The other perspective is, "Thats still pretty deceiving marketing by making really short statements and Sean Murray is hesitant to elaborate on what he said, I mean not everyone would think to be hesitant because something was pretty vague, plus in some cases they announced features that didn't even make it into the final product."

So from my perspective now after gaining all that knowledge, yea their implied, vague statements are considered lies to me. Plus the mention of removing a lot of what was said to be in the game makes Hello Games look bad. So basically, Sean Murray is the new version of John Smedley. I can already see people suing the crap out of Hello Games for this. I agree with "The other perspective" at the same time I can see why people would point their finger at the players for falling for it.

Yes my username is referring to SWG Teras Kasi Master . Yes I'm all about the repop and would promote that all day erra day. I don't develop games but I wish I would xD.

I absolutely agree that people are rushing into all of these pre-alphas, betas and promises faster than they can blink an eye... it's just sad that we have to be so cautious with content developers and publishers.

There was a time when a game would release trailers, and gameplay, you'd look at it and say "Wow...I cant wait to pour my life into this game" and then your hopes would be met with a quality game. Now it's just disappointment in any direction you look.

And sweeeett, im still playing SWGemu. TKM myself haha

VengeSunsoar · August 2016

That never really happened. There were always drivers and there was always hype and there was always marketing.

That was just your youth and exuberance that wad different. You looked at the world differently.

ApexTKM · August 2016

Vardahoth said:

Been saying this for years, and to be honest, I've just given up and lost all hope.

Why don't you give my sig a chance.

Wizardry · August 2016

Anyone that knows even a little about game design should NOT feel slighted one bit.

Do people or did they actually think NMS could deliver a game that is any better than what it is?
A game like NMS to become a stellar triple A game would need multiple millions,several hundred million and tons of bandwidth and tons of assets,it is IMPOSSIBLE and just not happening for many years to come.

So to those that had higher expectations,you need to wake up to reality,the game is a nice idea but do not expect a Mercedes Benz on a paperboy budget and with 2016 tech,we need to look forward to maybe the year 2025.

koboldfodder · August 2016

No Man's Sky a failure?

Uh, this game is a rousing success. Everyone who played it paid 60 dollars for it. No F2P garbage here. They succeeded in creating massive hype for an independent game and cashed in and cashed out as fast as they could.

They succeeded in answering questions by not actually answering them for well over two years, to the day the game was released people still thought you could play with other people in the game.

What they did is what PT Barnum did 100 years earlier. Make the public think they had something they needed. Get them in, get there money, and get them out as fast as possible.

And if you were a part of that development team you would do the same darn thing.

Now they have millions of dollars for their next game.

MikePaladin · August 2016

Omg you are just like Feminists .

Men are Evil You Blizzard is evil
Men ruin every thing You Blizzard killed MMORPG

Why not blame every single developer particularly no one want's to take responsibility .......in this era of millennials .
Blame You Blame greedy Devs. who wanted a piece of Blizzard cake . Blame people who attack innovative ideas.

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No Man's Sky and MMO's

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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No Man's Sky and MMO's

Comments

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV