It's a game breaker for me. Rest in peace, Star Trek Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Champions Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, Neverwinter Online and now Elder Scrolls Online. Loot boxes, whether they are RNG or keyed, they remove rewards from the game and put them into the cash shop while removing much of my motivation to play the games in the first place.
The way content is designed and the quality of rewards in game invariably diminish once loot boxes are implemented. It has happened in every game I have played that has them so far. Heck, once cash shops start selling XP potions and stat boosters and insta teleports...etc, the gameplay suffers in order to entice their purchase. So, even if I don't buy stuff, my gaming experience is suffering all the same.
"The quality of rewards in game invariably diminish". Maybe.
There has certainly been a vocal discussion on WoW forums about the quality of in-game rewards with Blizzard being accused of trying to get people to buy cash shop stuff. Your suggestion doesn't just apply to loot boxes but cash shops period.
However ESO's primary revenue source is via continued box sales and sales of new DLC. And if the quality of future DLC suffers then people will be less likely to buy the DLC yes?
Now if this changes then a reconsideration will be in order. Until then however no point - as the saying goes - "cutting off ones nose to spite the face". Imo of course.
Sad players actually agree and stick up for this shit. The new generation of gamers are complete idiots with no common sense. We never used to have this micro transaction shit until you idiots started having wet dreams about being cheap asses and playing games for free. Now the whole genre is shit. Thing is you pay more more cosmetics and pointless shit now then you used to for a sub or to buy an expansion. But guess that just comes with you being an idiot. No common sense anymore i'll continue to sit back and laugh at you all for letting this go on for so long.. Enjoy the future of YOUR gaming...Sad.
Sad players actually agree and stick up for this shit. The new generation of gamers are complete idiots with no common sense. We never used to have this micro transaction shit until you idiots started having wet dreams about being cheap asses and playing games for free. Now the whole genre is shit. Thing is you pay more more cosmetics and pointless shit now then you used to for a sub or to buy an expansion. But guess that just comes with you being an idiot. No common sense anymore i'll continue to sit back and laugh at you all for letting this go on for so long.. Enjoy the future of YOUR gaming...Sad.
Companies are wising up and realizing that the best way to make money is to make people pay for a sub ("VIP" or "Premium" status) AND pay microtransactions. (and, in some cases, toss in buy-to-play there too, though usually it's better for profits to just be free-to-play I think)
Gambling is immoral? Really is that a religious aspect ?
When I was little in 60's there used to be a small grocery store that had papers hidden (stapled on) with a number and I paid like 5 cents to play and I might get a nice doll. No one ever said it was immoral.
Gambling is fun until like everything else you take it too far. Every Chinese New Year when I go to the houses of my Chinese friends we would play Mahjong for real money. It was fun and it helped me get closer to the older Chinese relatives of my friend. In fact her grandmother was the one who taught me to play Mahjong. In case you're wondering how the gambling comes in, there is a betting aspect to Mahjong.
I really do not see anything inherently wrong about gambling only if you keep playing and lose everything. Like everything else in life use your head, discretion and moderation.
As for the DLC may be the amount they are selling on the DLC is not enough profits. Why should a company make the amount of money you think is proper? Subscription fees have not gone up since the early 2000 if I am not mistaken. I think it is possible $15 is no longer even enough for a sub any longer.
Really? Because FFXIV and WOW are doing just fine.. Lets see $15x2 million subs $30 million a month isn't enough then you have problems.Instead they add these little boxes and crap because there is no work involved in it and know people will keep paying for another and another and another until guess what you've spent $50 they are smart , the gamers are the idiots who keep falling for it.. Funny shit.
WoW was selling mounts for $25 .... what is that not a cash shop ? Funny shit indeed.
So even worse subscription and cash shop.
Although the cash shop in FFXIV is quite benign and one I probably will never use but it has one too.
So tell me in your esteemed opinion is profit or greed that drives them?
I wish people would think before they type I personally can understand that businesses need to make money and I support every game I play but seriously if you look hard enough you can add things up for yourself.
I get that people are angry and feeling betrayed that players are supporting these practices but as long as I can play good games and it is a monetization I can accept I'm there because I understand how hard it is for the people working in these companies to get paid. It is not the top executives I worry about but those working under them that have to make a living too. I guess all you're worried about in your selfish little world is whether you can play the whole game for free.
Oh I've made my thoughts about pixel ponies well known a few years back. Everything I bitched about back then is all coming into fruition now and it doesn't end here.
WoW was selling mounts for $25 .... what is that not a cash shop ? Funny shit indeed.
So even worse subscription and cash shop.
Although the cash shop in FFXIV is quite benign and one I probably will never use but it has one too.
So tell me in your esteemed opinion is profit or greed that drives them?
I wish people would think before they type I personally can understand that businesses need to make money and I support every game I play but seriously if you look hard enough you can add things up for yourself.
I get that people are angry and feeling betrayed that players are supporting these practices but as long as I can play good games and it is a monetization I can accept I'm there because I understand how hard it is for the people working in these companies to get paid. It is not the top executives I worry about but those working under them that have to make a living too. I guess all you're worried about in your selfish little world is whether you can play the whole game for free.
I never once said wow and ffxiv did not have cash shops i said they are doing just fine with subs.. Read before YOU type. Eso offers a sub with only items (Crafting Bag) and services (Instant Dyes) subscribers get on top of the store and that's after you bought the base game all the dlc and pay your sub unless ummm....... thats right you are already subbed in this buy to play free game with a store. Enough said and it's going to get worse. You enjoy eso and what's to come.
Well you said they're surviving on subs I pointed out that they are not. Case closed.
The point is you chose games with cash shops as the example for trying to say subscriptions work but in my opinion games that charge for a subscription and a cash shop are really double dipping .
Personally I've no problem with it though since its mainly cosmetics and inventory I will never need.
Basically the argument that subscriptions alone work based on WoW and FFXIV becomes unproven when those two games have more than just subscriptions. Sure, you could say WoW MAYBE did it just for "easy money" but as long the cash shop is still there, it still changes the "subscriptions alone work" from being "100% proven" to "you can't be 100% sure" at best.
I have my doubts that EvE and FFXIV are doing really well. They might be making a profit but it is no way a runaway success.
I just wish you all could go work as in an employee in one of these companies and when the game goes belly up come here and seriously say that you do not support the efforts game companies make to earn money. Yes game companies are trying to fight tooth and nail to survive especially when there are so many games out there warring for your money. In your opinion it is all about greed I see them sit around a table and bang their heads together trying to come up with ideas that have worked for other games. Condemn them all you want but I can understand them.
WoW definitely make loads of cash as evidenced by their financial reports. No argument there.
However WoW is not an example of a subscription game that makes it only on its subs because it has a cash shop. So strictly speaking it is not .
That's the shitty thing. Because of F2P and the creation and acceptance of the Cash Shop. Games like WoW have introduced it into their game because they can. They were wildly profitable beforehand. The only reason was for the easy money.
Personally I would have no problem if a Sub option would give me the option of never having to look at a cash shop.
It was a very short time ago that I was praising ESO as having the best business model in the Genre. Now I'm paying a sub + cash shop + RNG loot box from cash shop.
Now I'm sorry to say that WoW has the best business model in the genre, shitty content updates and all.
SWTOR needed to do this because it was a FREE game.
ESO is a buy to play game. I payed my 60 bucks for the game, then ESO said OH wait nevermind we want you to subscribe anyway.. i opted out personally.. btw they also charge u for the xpacs so them doing this is a slap in the face of anybody who spent all that money already to this point.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
WoW definitely make loads of cash as evidenced by their financial reports. No argument there.
However WoW is not an example of a subscription game that makes it only on its subs because it has a cash shop. So strictly speaking it is not .
That's the shitty thing. Because of F2P and the creation and acceptance of the Cash Shop. Games like WoW have introduced it into their game because they can. They were wildly profitable beforehand. The only reason was for the easy money.
Personally I would have no problem if a Sub option would give me the option of never having to look at a cash shop.
It was a very short time ago that I was praising ESO as having the best business model in the Genre. Now I'm paying a sub + cash shop + RNG loot box from cash shop.
Now I'm sorry to say that WoW has the best business model in the genre, shitty content updates and all.
That's complete projection and speculation on your part that you're asserting as a fact.
There is no "F2P entity" that caused this. There were market trends that ActiBlizz investors wouldn't ignore. There was revenue left on the table. That is why Blizzard aggressively marketed a cash shop and RMT, because they have the customer base to make that change and still not skip a beat. The only thing responsible for Blizzard's additional revenue points is the fact that Blizzard wants to make more money than a fixed income subscription provides.
ESO does have one of the best business models. If you sub you needn't buy anything else. If you don't want to sub you can buy the content and nothing else if you don't want.
So WoW with a minimum monthly fee, plus the required DLC purchase, plus the cash shop (with thousands of dollars of extra stuff), plus direct real money to gold conversion (RMT) has the best business model? In what way? It's setup as an aggressive money leech that is built to pray on addictive personalities.
It wasn't projection and speculation, it was pure opinion. I like your last couple sentences, it's what the genre as a whole, WoW and ESO included, are now feeding and leeching off of "preying on addictive personalities"
I agree with Torval. Compared to WoW ESO is very tame.
As Kiterad says though they have to make enough money. The question though is to find what solution brings in the most money. More players paying something or a few players paying for the box, added content, a cash shop and a $50 (let alone $15) sub.
I play FFXIV. I love mounts. I always enjoy collecting them. But I want to earn it. I want it as a reward for achieving something. There are planety of mounts in the game that were distributed by participarting in limited time events. Getting those are awesome. But then there are mounts you can buy with money. Sure they look good, but they do not make me want them.
I remember playing WoW and I got my brother to resub. I earned a spectral Gryphon. Yeah, it looked great. But I always had this nagging thought in the back of my head........"Scroll of Resurrection Mount" No, it wasn't a mount I bought. Yes I did actuallt have to earn it....but I earned it outside of WoW. And you can argue reasons all you want. That diminished it's value to me. Others.....no, not so much and that's OK.......for them.
I agree. That's one of the things I've said many times (perhaps poorly sometimes) that I find more objectionable about cash shops: the more activity there's in them the more they take away from just playing the game and they often trivialize the in-game rewards and achievements. Using your mounts example, the best looking (and in some games those with better abilities) ones are usually cash shop items since they have to enhance their appeal to maximize sales. Without that, you would need to do something playing the game itself to get the best ones. And IMO, that's how it should be: in game rewards for in game activities.
To me it feels like they insinuate themselves into the game play in minor or major ways. They may be a necessary evil with today's MMO audience but they don't enhance the games - just the opposite.
I like fun loot, progression, and achievements. I also don't care if someone doesn't and wants to buy their look. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that everyone must start out the same, looking like a pauper, and that everything must be a significant achievement.
If someone wants to create a character persona that rides around on a big cat or wolf with a special look and they are willing to buy that from the shop or broker then that's fine.
If you two like to do it one way then do it that way. If someone else wants to do a different way let them. I do different things with different characters.
If your argument is that you want to be able to earn what is exclusive to the shop or the loot boxes then I will hop on board with anyone who wants to ride that train when they're willing to apply that thinking across the board to group, pvp, and raid loot too.
To some people they are devaluing the actual achievements made in the game buy selling items in the cash shop. I for one want to play the game to earn rewards.
So go play the game to earn rewards. Just don't expect everyone else to want to play your way or value what you value. It's a social game and the 'M' in MMO means massively right? Lot's of people with different perspectives. The more the people the more the diversity of opinion.
The problem with this is, it not about achievement at all but it's about showing off. People are not just interested in earning something they want to be able to show it off. The only way you can show off is if the item requires work and not money. This is a mind set one cannot deny in MMORPGs but it is essentially a selfish mind set. It's about showing another player that you earned something and it is only through time investment in the game that one can earn it.
They call it cheapening because it cheapens their time investment. For people who are not bothered with this like me it has no effect at all. Well each person has their barometer I guess. A good game though should really not be judged on these parameters.
I would disagree. It is about achievement and playing the game to get a reward or just buying it in a cash shop.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Here again we have a case of a business (Zenimax) doing what businesses do - aka come up with ways to make money and keep their products profitable.
Consumers (players) - have 2 options - play or don't, buy or don't - it's very clear cut.
For some reason players get confused and think that they are business owners and somehow should have direct input on regulating pricing of products that they didn't create nor have had any input on whatsoever, because they are NOT part of Zenimax.
What's strange is how this keeps happening over and over, players get confused over who they are - just consumers.
You might have a point if ESO was sold as the type of game it has become. For some of us we purchased CE and paid a sub for the duration leading up to the big lie. There is also substantial time investment involved. So it's not as simple as saying..pay or don't pay or play or don't play.
Sure, I stopped playing long ago but I'm not going quietly because they are a bunch of lying, manipulative scumbags that deserve every bit of negative feedback they have coming and anyone who has been living under a rock for the last couple years and is thinking about playing ESO should know what ZOS is all about.
I play FFXIV. I love mounts. I always enjoy collecting them. But I want to earn it. I want it as a reward for achieving something. There are planety of mounts in the game that were distributed by participarting in limited time events. Getting those are awesome. But then there are mounts you can buy with money. Sure they look good, but they do not make me want them.
I remember playing WoW and I got my brother to resub. I earned a spectral Gryphon. Yeah, it looked great. But I always had this nagging thought in the back of my head........"Scroll of Resurrection Mount" No, it wasn't a mount I bought. Yes I did actuallt have to earn it....but I earned it outside of WoW. And you can argue reasons all you want. That diminished it's value to me. Others.....no, not so much and that's OK.......for them.
I agree. That's one of the things I've said many times (perhaps poorly sometimes) that I find more objectionable about cash shops: the more activity there's in them the more they take away from just playing the game and they often trivialize the in-game rewards and achievements. Using your mounts example, the best looking (and in some games those with better abilities) ones are usually cash shop items since they have to enhance their appeal to maximize sales. Without that, you would need to do something playing the game itself to get the best ones. And IMO, that's how it should be: in game rewards for in game activities.
To me it feels like they insinuate themselves into the game play in minor or major ways. They may be a necessary evil with today's MMO audience but they don't enhance the games - just the opposite.
I like fun loot, progression, and achievements. I also don't care if someone doesn't and wants to buy their look. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that everyone must start out the same, looking like a pauper, and that everything must be a significant achievement.
If someone wants to create a character persona that rides around on a big cat or wolf with a special look and they are willing to buy that from the shop or broker then that's fine.
If you two like to do it one way then do it that way. If someone else wants to do a different way let them. I do different things with different characters.
If your argument is that you want to be able to earn what is exclusive to the shop or the loot boxes then I will hop on board with anyone who wants to ride that train when they're willing to apply that thinking across the board to group, pvp, and raid loot too.
To some people they are devaluing the actual achievements made in the game buy selling items in the cash shop. I for one want to play the game to earn rewards.
So go play the game to earn rewards. Just don't expect everyone else to want to play your way or value what you value. It's a social game and the 'M' in MMO means massively right? Lot's of people with different perspectives. The more the people the more the diversity of opinion.
The problem with this is, it not about achievement at all but it's about showing off. People are not just interested in earning something they want to be able to show it off. The only way you can show off is if the item requires work and not money. This is a mind set one cannot deny in MMORPGs but it is essentially a selfish mind set. It's about showing another player that you earned something and it is only through time investment in the game that one can earn it.
They call it cheapening because it cheapens their time investment. For people who are not bothered with this like me it has no effect at all. Well each person has their barometer I guess. A good game though should really not be judged on these parameters.
I would disagree. It is about achievement and playing the game to get a reward or just buying it in a cash shop.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
I believe you still can still play the game and get the rewards.
Still sounds if you are more concerned if someone else can choose another path.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Marvel Heroes has them and those players don't give a rats ass. I haven't bought a lottery box in any game but I could see where I might if i wanted to support them and there was nothing else left to buy. But I'd never do it in a game that has subs.
I play FFXIV. I love mounts. I always enjoy collecting them. But I want to earn it. I want it as a reward for achieving something. There are planety of mounts in the game that were distributed by participarting in limited time events. Getting those are awesome. But then there are mounts you can buy with money. Sure they look good, but they do not make me want them.
I remember playing WoW and I got my brother to resub. I earned a spectral Gryphon. Yeah, it looked great. But I always had this nagging thought in the back of my head........"Scroll of Resurrection Mount" No, it wasn't a mount I bought. Yes I did actuallt have to earn it....but I earned it outside of WoW. And you can argue reasons all you want. That diminished it's value to me. Others.....no, not so much and that's OK.......for them.
I agree. That's one of the things I've said many times (perhaps poorly sometimes) that I find more objectionable about cash shops: the more activity there's in them the more they take away from just playing the game and they often trivialize the in-game rewards and achievements. Using your mounts example, the best looking (and in some games those with better abilities) ones are usually cash shop items since they have to enhance their appeal to maximize sales. Without that, you would need to do something playing the game itself to get the best ones. And IMO, that's how it should be: in game rewards for in game activities.
To me it feels like they insinuate themselves into the game play in minor or major ways. They may be a necessary evil with today's MMO audience but they don't enhance the games - just the opposite.
I like fun loot, progression, and achievements. I also don't care if someone doesn't and wants to buy their look. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that everyone must start out the same, looking like a pauper, and that everything must be a significant achievement.
If someone wants to create a character persona that rides around on a big cat or wolf with a special look and they are willing to buy that from the shop or broker then that's fine.
If you two like to do it one way then do it that way. If someone else wants to do a different way let them. I do different things with different characters.
If your argument is that you want to be able to earn what is exclusive to the shop or the loot boxes then I will hop on board with anyone who wants to ride that train when they're willing to apply that thinking across the board to group, pvp, and raid loot too.
To some people they are devaluing the actual achievements made in the game buy selling items in the cash shop. I for one want to play the game to earn rewards.
So go play the game to earn rewards. Just don't expect everyone else to want to play your way or value what you value. It's a social game and the 'M' in MMO means massively right? Lot's of people with different perspectives. The more the people the more the diversity of opinion.
The problem with this is, it not about achievement at all but it's about showing off. People are not just interested in earning something they want to be able to show it off. The only way you can show off is if the item requires work and not money. This is a mind set one cannot deny in MMORPGs but it is essentially a selfish mind set. It's about showing another player that you earned something and it is only through time investment in the game that one can earn it.
They call it cheapening because it cheapens their time investment. For people who are not bothered with this like me it has no effect at all. Well each person has their barometer I guess. A good game though should really not be judged on these parameters.
I would disagree. It is about achievement and playing the game to get a reward or just buying it in a cash shop.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
It is starting to sound crazy but I agree with you. If you want rewards in a game..play the damn game! WTF even play at all if you are going to circumvent the game with a store or a box? Mind blowing stupidity.
I play FFXIV. I love mounts. I always enjoy collecting them. But I want to earn it. I want it as a reward for achieving something. There are planety of mounts in the game that were distributed by participarting in limited time events. Getting those are awesome. But then there are mounts you can buy with money. Sure they look good, but they do not make me want them.
I remember playing WoW and I got my brother to resub. I earned a spectral Gryphon. Yeah, it looked great. But I always had this nagging thought in the back of my head........"Scroll of Resurrection Mount" No, it wasn't a mount I bought. Yes I did actuallt have to earn it....but I earned it outside of WoW. And you can argue reasons all you want. That diminished it's value to me. Others.....no, not so much and that's OK.......for them.
I agree. That's one of the things I've said many times (perhaps poorly sometimes) that I find more objectionable about cash shops: the more activity there's in them the more they take away from just playing the game and they often trivialize the in-game rewards and achievements. Using your mounts example, the best looking (and in some games those with better abilities) ones are usually cash shop items since they have to enhance their appeal to maximize sales. Without that, you would need to do something playing the game itself to get the best ones. And IMO, that's how it should be: in game rewards for in game activities.
To me it feels like they insinuate themselves into the game play in minor or major ways. They may be a necessary evil with today's MMO audience but they don't enhance the games - just the opposite.
I like fun loot, progression, and achievements. I also don't care if someone doesn't and wants to buy their look. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that everyone must start out the same, looking like a pauper, and that everything must be a significant achievement.
If someone wants to create a character persona that rides around on a big cat or wolf with a special look and they are willing to buy that from the shop or broker then that's fine.
If you two like to do it one way then do it that way. If someone else wants to do a different way let them. I do different things with different characters.
If your argument is that you want to be able to earn what is exclusive to the shop or the loot boxes then I will hop on board with anyone who wants to ride that train when they're willing to apply that thinking across the board to group, pvp, and raid loot too.
To some people they are devaluing the actual achievements made in the game buy selling items in the cash shop. I for one want to play the game to earn rewards.
So go play the game to earn rewards. Just don't expect everyone else to want to play your way or value what you value. It's a social game and the 'M' in MMO means massively right? Lot's of people with different perspectives. The more the people the more the diversity of opinion.
The problem with this is, it not about achievement at all but it's about showing off. People are not just interested in earning something they want to be able to show it off. The only way you can show off is if the item requires work and not money. This is a mind set one cannot deny in MMORPGs but it is essentially a selfish mind set. It's about showing another player that you earned something and it is only through time investment in the game that one can earn it.
They call it cheapening because it cheapens their time investment. For people who are not bothered with this like me it has no effect at all. Well each person has their barometer I guess. A good game though should really not be judged on these parameters.
I would disagree. It is about achievement and playing the game to get a reward or just buying it in a cash shop.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
I believe you still can still play the game and get the rewards.
Still sounds if you are more concerned if someone else can choose another path.
I would say the same thing if it was a single player game with micro-transactions. Buying something in a game with a credit card is not an achievement it's just circumventing game play.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I play FFXIV. I love mounts. I always enjoy collecting them. But I want to earn it. I want it as a reward for achieving something. There are planety of mounts in the game that were distributed by participarting in limited time events. Getting those are awesome. But then there are mounts you can buy with money. Sure they look good, but they do not make me want them.
I remember playing WoW and I got my brother to resub. I earned a spectral Gryphon. Yeah, it looked great. But I always had this nagging thought in the back of my head........"Scroll of Resurrection Mount" No, it wasn't a mount I bought. Yes I did actuallt have to earn it....but I earned it outside of WoW. And you can argue reasons all you want. That diminished it's value to me. Others.....no, not so much and that's OK.......for them.
I agree. That's one of the things I've said many times (perhaps poorly sometimes) that I find more objectionable about cash shops: the more activity there's in them the more they take away from just playing the game and they often trivialize the in-game rewards and achievements. Using your mounts example, the best looking (and in some games those with better abilities) ones are usually cash shop items since they have to enhance their appeal to maximize sales. Without that, you would need to do something playing the game itself to get the best ones. And IMO, that's how it should be: in game rewards for in game activities.
To me it feels like they insinuate themselves into the game play in minor or major ways. They may be a necessary evil with today's MMO audience but they don't enhance the games - just the opposite.
I like fun loot, progression, and achievements. I also don't care if someone doesn't and wants to buy their look. I don't subscribe to the philosophy that everyone must start out the same, looking like a pauper, and that everything must be a significant achievement.
If someone wants to create a character persona that rides around on a big cat or wolf with a special look and they are willing to buy that from the shop or broker then that's fine.
If you two like to do it one way then do it that way. If someone else wants to do a different way let them. I do different things with different characters.
If your argument is that you want to be able to earn what is exclusive to the shop or the loot boxes then I will hop on board with anyone who wants to ride that train when they're willing to apply that thinking across the board to group, pvp, and raid loot too.
To some people they are devaluing the actual achievements made in the game buy selling items in the cash shop. I for one want to play the game to earn rewards.
So go play the game to earn rewards. Just don't expect everyone else to want to play your way or value what you value. It's a social game and the 'M' in MMO means massively right? Lot's of people with different perspectives. The more the people the more the diversity of opinion.
The problem with this is, it not about achievement at all but it's about showing off. People are not just interested in earning something they want to be able to show it off. The only way you can show off is if the item requires work and not money. This is a mind set one cannot deny in MMORPGs but it is essentially a selfish mind set. It's about showing another player that you earned something and it is only through time investment in the game that one can earn it.
They call it cheapening because it cheapens their time investment. For people who are not bothered with this like me it has no effect at all. Well each person has their barometer I guess. A good game though should really not be judged on these parameters.
I would disagree. It is about achievement and playing the game to get a reward or just buying it in a cash shop.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
I believe you still can still play the game and get the rewards.
Still sounds if you are more concerned if someone else can choose another path.
I would say the same thing if it was a single player game with micro-transactions. Buying something in a game with a credit card is not an achievement it's just circumventing game play.
I would argue that:
If that's an option and you choose it..... You're playing the game as intended
I would say the same thing if it was a single player game with micro-transactions. Buying something in a game with a credit card is not an achievement it's just circumventing game play.
Case in point, Squeenix and the latest Deus Ex installment.
Yeah but it's all about envy and jealousy lol.
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
There has certainly been a vocal discussion on WoW forums about the quality of in-game rewards with Blizzard being accused of trying to get people to buy cash shop stuff. Your suggestion doesn't just apply to loot boxes but cash shops period.
However ESO's primary revenue source is via continued box sales and sales of new DLC. And if the quality of future DLC suffers then people will be less likely to buy the DLC yes?
Now if this changes then a reconsideration will be in order. Until then however no point - as the saying goes - "cutting off ones nose to spite the face". Imo of course.
So even worse subscription and cash shop.
Although the cash shop in FFXIV is quite benign and one I probably will never use but it has one too.
So tell me in your esteemed opinion is profit or greed that drives them?
I wish people would think before they type I personally can understand that businesses need to make money and I support every game I play but seriously if you look hard enough you can add things up for yourself.
I get that people are angry and feeling betrayed that players are supporting these practices but as long as I can play good games and it is a monetization I can accept I'm there because I understand how hard it is for the people working in these companies to get paid. It is not the top executives I worry about but those working under them that have to make a living too. I guess all you're worried about in your selfish little world is whether you can play the whole game for free.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The point is you chose games with cash shops as the example for trying to say subscriptions work but in my opinion games that charge for a subscription and a cash shop are really double dipping .
Personally I've no problem with it though since its mainly cosmetics and inventory I will never need.
I think the cash shop, is a simple case of easy money.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
However WoW is not an example of a subscription game that makes it only on its subs because it has a cash shop. So strictly speaking it is not .
I just wish you all could go work as in an employee in one of these companies and when the game goes belly up come here and seriously say that you do not support the efforts game companies make to earn money. Yes game companies are trying to fight tooth and nail to survive especially when there are so many games out there warring for your money. In your opinion it is all about greed I see them sit around a table and bang their heads together trying to come up with ideas that have worked for other games. Condemn them all you want but I can understand them.
Personally I would have no problem if a Sub option would give me the option of never having to look at a cash shop.
It was a very short time ago that I was praising ESO as having the best business model in the Genre. Now I'm paying a sub + cash shop + RNG loot box from cash shop.
Now I'm sorry to say that WoW has the best business model in the genre, shitty content updates and all.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
ESO is a buy to play game. I payed my 60 bucks for the game, then ESO said OH wait nevermind we want you to subscribe anyway.. i opted out personally.. btw they also charge u for the xpacs so them doing this is a slap in the face of anybody who spent all that money already to this point.
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As Kiterad says though they have to make enough money. The question though is to find what solution brings in the most money. More players paying something or a few players paying for the box, added content, a cash shop and a $50 (let alone $15) sub.
I know this may sound crazy but I actually want to play the game to get rewards. Not buy them in a cash shop.
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Sure, I stopped playing long ago but I'm not going quietly because they are a bunch of lying, manipulative scumbags that deserve every bit of negative feedback they have coming and anyone who has been living under a rock for the last couple years and is thinking about playing ESO should know what ZOS is all about.
Still sounds if you are more concerned if someone else can choose another path.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/If that's an option and you choose it..... You're playing the game as intended
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Yeah but it's all about envy and jealousy lol.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED