yes they have the right do down vote a game for ANY reason it can be just because the dog licked their leg.
but I dont agree with them doing so.
done
I also think the unusually high amount of attention my statement with re-re-re-re-re-replys over and over again are an indication that their assumptions are being challenged in ways that actually make sense to them but they are not comfortable admiring to themselves and as a result are more debating themselves then with me.
I am not changing my view on this..peroid. move on
Saying that people respond to you only because they secretly agree with you is...interesting. You must have been a gem in debate class.
With an attitude like that, though, you are correct on one part. There is no point in discussing anything with you.
Developers charging you for DLC before the product is released is NOT related to the game.
Look you are spending an unusual amount of time seemingly trying to convince yourself that changing the review of a game based on business practices of a company is a reasonable thing to do. I do not, nothing you can say will change that. More over, why do you have such an intrest in trying.
Move on and please stop responding to me on this. I am asking you please walk away
So you make an absurd analogy. Ignore context of "early access"
Now I'M trying to convince myself of not buying into the above.
Walking away.... wait, maybe if I put some VR goggles on I'll see wh... nope. Walking away.
again I dont give a flying flat fuck if the game is in early access or not and I dont care if the developers promised me roses and gave me thorns.
all I care about is is the game fun and I want reviews to address that question. I try to avoid reviews that appear to have other agendas
now please stop replying to me and try to figure out your own moral questions without me. leave me out of it already!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
... The crappy part of the whole thing is them allowing players that did purchase the expansion to transfer their dinos back to the original game.
....
That would have been merely "crappy" if the dino's in the expansion were on par with the ones in the core game.
But the alpha dino's in Scorched Earth are some of the most powerful in the game ! Ark has a very active PVP community. Some are calling it "backdoor P2W"...
^ This one of the worst analogies I've read on MMORPG. No, I'm not going to explain why because it's so silly it doesn't warrant one.
It was so bad, I erased the paragraph I was typing about developers deploying games via piecemeal and pricing. Thanks mate.
basically
reducing the review score because of bad business practices is being woefully dishonest as a gamer
Because a moral disagreement on manufacturing practice is parallel to buying a concept and then being charged again for said concept.
Developers can sell unfinished concepts, but consumer review is final. That's f#%ing brilliant.
I am sorry I have stated that I do not agree with that and I have provided examples but I will provide another one.
If I open up Consumer Reports to research on what car I might want to buy what I am looking for from them is quality of the car itself. I am not looking for business practices. If I want to be an ethical buyer I will do that research as well but Consumer Reports should let me know which car has the best reliability and quality and the question of a cars reliability should not be affected because of bad business practices that do not affect its reliability or quality
I can keep saying it but I am not changing my mind on this so maybe just move on.
Here's a hint. Business practice isn't the problem: it's the actual product.
no...which is my point
Developers charging you for DLC before the product is released is NOT related to the game.
Look you are spending an unusual amount of time seemingly trying to convince yourself that changing the review of a game based on business practices of a company is a reasonable thing to do. I do not, nothing you can say will change that. More over, why do you have such an intrest in trying.
Move on and please stop responding to me on this. I am asking you please walk away
The first thing I actually agree with you on. We don't need to change each other's opinions.
Therefore reviewers who feel like they are in the right to change their preview/review can and will continue to do so because they disagree with you and as you state it is merely your opinion. You as the consumer of the review can decide to ignore them if you wish, that's your choice. There are clearly others who find the information valid so I expect reviewers will continue to discuss business practices when reviewing games.
So we can all move along.
yes they have the right do down vote a game for ANY reason it can be just because the dog licked their leg.
but I dont agree with them doing so.
done
I also think the unusually high amount of attention my statement with re-re-re-re-re-replys over and over again are an indication that their assumptions are being challenged in ways that actually make sense to them but they are not comfortable admiring to themselves and as a result are more debating themselves then with me.
I am not changing my view on this..peroid. move on
I love your veiled attempt at feeling superior by stating that attention being directed at you must be because your opinion is "right" and it somehow makes others uncomfortable.
You seem to be implying that people are only interested in debating you about your views because they/we somehow are secretively feeling insecure about our own opinion. Ending an argument with "well in the end this is just my opinion and you're not changing it" is an informal fallacy. You didn't state it initially as an opinion, you stated it as fact. When we try to offer evidence, you attempted to establish a proof by assertion and an argument ad nauseum until ultimately you just stated "it's my opinion you can't change it". So many things wrong with that.
So basically you are saying "I feel I'm right because so many people disagree with me, and the fact that they disagree me so strongly must be because they feel threatened by how right I am". Sounds like what someone who is wrong, and there is overwhelming evidence against them, would say before ducking out.
^ This one of the worst analogies I've read on MMORPG. No, I'm not going to explain why because it's so silly it doesn't warrant one.
It was so bad, I erased the paragraph I was typing about developers deploying games via piecemeal and pricing. Thanks mate.
basically
reducing the review score because of bad business practices is being woefully dishonest as a gamer
Because a moral disagreement on manufacturing practice is parallel to buying a concept and then being charged again for said concept.
Developers can sell unfinished concepts, but consumer review is final. That's f#%ing brilliant.
I am sorry I have stated that I do not agree with that and I have provided examples but I will provide another one.
If I open up Consumer Reports to research on what car I might want to buy what I am looking for from them is quality of the car itself. I am not looking for business practices. If I want to be an ethical buyer I will do that research as well but Consumer Reports should let me know which car has the best reliability and quality and the question of a cars reliability should not be affected because of bad business practices that do not affect its reliability or quality
I can keep saying it but I am not changing my mind on this so maybe just move on.
Here's a hint. Business practice isn't the problem: it's the actual product.
no...which is my point
Developers charging you for DLC before the product is released is NOT related to the game.
Look you are spending an unusual amount of time seemingly trying to convince yourself that changing the review of a game based on business practices of a company is a reasonable thing to do. I do not, nothing you can say will change that. More over, why do you have such an intrest in trying.
Move on and please stop responding to me on this. I am asking you please walk away
The first thing I actually agree with you on. We don't need to change each other's opinions.
Therefore reviewers who feel like they are in the right to change their preview/review can and will continue to do so because they disagree with you and as you state it is merely your opinion. You as the consumer of the review can decide to ignore them if you wish, that's your choice. There are clearly others who find the information valid so I expect reviewers will continue to discuss business practices when reviewing games.
So we can all move along.
yes they have the right do down vote a game for ANY reason it can be just because the dog licked their leg.
but I dont agree with them doing so.
done
I also think the unusually high amount of attention my statement with re-re-re-re-re-replys over and over again are an indication that their assumptions are being challenged in ways that actually make sense to them but they are not comfortable admiring to themselves and as a result are more debating themselves then with me.
I am not changing my view on this..peroid. move on
I love your veiled attempt at feeling superior by stating that attention being directed at you must be because your opinion is "right" and it somehow makes others uncomfortable.
You seem to be implying that people are only interested in debating you about your views because they/we somehow are secretively feeling insecure about our own opinion. Ending an argument with "well in the end this is just my opinion and you're not changing it" is an informal fallacy. You didn't state it initially as an opinion, you stated it as fact. When we try to offer evidence, you attempted to establish a proof by assertion and an argument ad nauseum until ultimately you just stated "it's my opinion you can't change it". So many things wrong with that.
So basically you are saying "I feel I'm right because so many people disagree with me, and the fact that they disagree me so strongly must be because they feel threatened by how right I am". Sounds like what someone who is wrong, and there is overwhelming evidence against them, would say before ducking out.
See two can play at that game. Enjoy your day.
dude!
let it go
I stated my views ages ago everyone just let it go. its not going to change
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think it completely makes sense for it to be bashed into the negative... DLC for Early Access games really doesn't make much sense... any features worked on for an unreleased game should either be part of the launch title or released after the game releases.... though the latter often gets attacked quite often.
But this game shouldn't be an EA title... it's on Xbox, it's on Playstation. I've played it.. it's basically a finished game... just still buggy in many ways.
Releasing DLC at this point... well they deserve all the negative feedback they receive.
^ This one of the worst analogies I've read on MMORPG. No, I'm not going to explain why because it's so silly it doesn't warrant one.
It was so bad, I erased the paragraph I was typing about developers deploying games via piecemeal and pricing. Thanks mate.
basically
reducing the review score because of bad business practices is being woefully dishonest as a gamer
Because a moral disagreement on manufacturing practice is parallel to buying a concept and then being charged again for said concept.
Developers can sell unfinished concepts, but consumer review is final. That's f#%ing brilliant.
I am sorry I have stated that I do not agree with that and I have provided examples but I will provide another one.
If I open up Consumer Reports to research on what car I might want to buy what I am looking for from them is quality of the car itself. I am not looking for business practices. If I want to be an ethical buyer I will do that research as well but Consumer Reports should let me know which car has the best reliability and quality and the question of a cars reliability should not be affected because of bad business practices that do not affect its reliability or quality
I can keep saying it but I am not changing my mind on this so maybe just move on.
Here's a hint. Business practice isn't the problem: it's the actual product.
no...which is my point
Developers charging you for DLC before the product is released is NOT related to the game.
Look you are spending an unusual amount of time seemingly trying to convince yourself that changing the review of a game based on business practices of a company is a reasonable thing to do. I do not, nothing you can say will change that. More over, why do you have such an intrest in trying.
Move on and please stop responding to me on this. I am asking you please walk away
The first thing I actually agree with you on. We don't need to change each other's opinions.
Therefore reviewers who feel like they are in the right to change their preview/review can and will continue to do so because they disagree with you and as you state it is merely your opinion. You as the consumer of the review can decide to ignore them if you wish, that's your choice. There are clearly others who find the information valid so I expect reviewers will continue to discuss business practices when reviewing games.
So we can all move along.
yes they have the right do down vote a game for ANY reason it can be just because the dog licked their leg.
but I dont agree with them doing so.
done
I also think the unusually high amount of attention my statement with re-re-re-re-re-replys over and over again are an indication that their assumptions are being challenged in ways that actually make sense to them but they are not comfortable admiring to themselves and as a result are more debating themselves then with me.
I am not changing my view on this..peroid. move on
I love your veiled attempt at feeling superior by stating that attention being directed at you must be because your opinion is "right" and it somehow makes others uncomfortable.
You seem to be implying that people are only interested in debating you about your views because they/we somehow are secretively feeling insecure about our own opinion. Ending an argument with "well in the end this is just my opinion and you're not changing it" is an informal fallacy. You didn't state it initially as an opinion, you stated it as fact. When we try to offer evidence, you attempted to establish a proof by assertion and an argument ad nauseum until ultimately you just stated "it's my opinion you can't change it". So many things wrong with that.
So basically you are saying "I feel I'm right because so many people disagree with me, and the fact that they disagree me so strongly must be because they feel threatened by how right I am". Sounds like what someone who is wrong, and there is overwhelming evidence against them, would say before ducking out.
See two can play at that game. Enjoy your day.
dude!
let it go
I stated my views ages ago everyone just let it go. its not going to change
You know as well as I do that prior to this post you were really saying "Let it go guys, it's just my opinion, and you all secretly agree with me which is why you are replying to me so I feel really great because I'm so awesome".
Now I will actually let it go, since you are no longer attempting any veiled superiority or vindication. That's all I was asking for. Don't leave an argument and at the same time try to still imply that the other person is wrong.
They need more money for development. So what's wrong with whipping up some new content on the side to earn some extra dough. It's all over the place. Wargamming sells gold tanks between patches. Gaijin sells the same stuff. The problem is all the crybaby millennials want everything for free or a 1 time buy in. I remember a time when a sub meant that you really wanted to play a game and kept the games clean. Respectable gamers didn't play non sub games because they fill up with what all the games are full of now, A&&HOLES. When you have nothing invested you have nothing to lose so any rules of decency stop applying. I suggest you not pay the 20 bucks and go play a non buy in game and have fun with that kinda crowd.
I hope you are kidding. I don't agree with a single point you made.
Great article op. I won't be buying ARK anytime soon. Finish the core game and then start begging for more money.
Game developers have shareholders that demand profits and game developers get laid off if they don't make said profits . There I translated if from whiney millennial to real world English for you.
Well here is my stance on it... (and i have received some flak for not calling betas with micro transactions releases)
This DLC... Marks the release of the game and it should now be rated and scored as such. Feature in-complete and broken as it is... Yeah they rah out of money... Yes they need more.. I get that. But this is my line in the sand. This is it.
Now ofc my opinion matter jack and less but still it is what it is.
I mean honestly what this boils down to is paying for more content in a game that you enjoy vs eating a meal at Chipolte. Go make a PB&J and keep kicking ARK butt
Game developers have shareholders that demand profits and game developers get laid off if they don't make said profits . There I translated if from whiney millennial to real world English for you.
They aren't even in the "profit" making stage yet though. The game isn't out yet. They are in the development stage and things like early access were a means of securing more funding for development of the game.
Profits come once the game has been released. You don't profit on a product before you sell it. The resources spend on this expansion should have been spent on the actual game. If they were planning to secure additional funding from the community to finish the game, the order should have been FIRST secure the funding (via a crowd-funding scheme), then use the funds to finish/add to the pre-release product.
This is what is wrong with the whole "Early access for money/Crowd-funding" business in gaming. The lines get blurred and it screws with people's heads.
This is what is wrong with the whole "Early access for money/Crowd-funding" business in gaming. The lines get blurred and it screws with people's heads.
KS campaigns and "Early Access" sales are just the first stages of monetization.
The developer has already received the money (in advance) that they would have received by selling the game "at launch". In many cases, the entire target market will "buy" the game years before it is finished. The only "profit" the developer can look forward to on eventual launch is selling to players who were not interested enough to buy the game during Early Access. Grim prospect...
I have over 900 hours in ARK .. I think the game is great .. play on a very dedicated private server which was hitting max pop 120 on most nights and had to institute a white list even .. Early Access not early access who cares I've never in all my years playing games witnessed a company update and expand as fast as Wild Card has with ARK . from one map only official servers to official/unofficial servers supported, then Survival of the Fittest contest servers, then two maps, then another play mode with primitive + .. all officially supported and almost weekly major updates there for a very long while . now monthly ...
and so they decide to release a third official map/expansion and want to sip from the well a second time??
really .. the game only costs 30 bucks .. hell when I bought in it was only 20 bucks not on sale .. they have no micro transactions, no store, no gold coins/silver coins/ pearls etc etc .. no sub .. and no real way to generate income other then sales ..
they still feel their game is unfinished enough to call it complete (lord only knows why?) and need to generate some more income to continue development or pay people or whatever .. so freaking what .. its 20 bucks more .. making a total of 40/50 bucks total so far .. and thats still cheaper than I spent on The Division by a bigger company with more assets and that game still sucks
early access or not .. zillions of hours of players time has been spent enjoying the game .. everyone knows its a game in constant development .. hell I don't see how you could ever call a game that updates and expands this much "done"
Until there are laws to stop them, games will no longer "release". Every game even released is being constantly updated towards a unreachable perfection. Unreachable by all players standards that is for sure. The moment you begin ignoring early access and finished headings the quicker you realize its either a game in early development, middle or towards the end of its life span, play those games you feel most comfortable on that scale. They will milk the equivalent of "sorry I am just a student" card for as long as possible like a resident doctor. Its why I love fanboi's defending a ten year early access with the "its early access" defense. Must be nice to be a game developers these days, people will buy into your idea on paper whether its ever achieved, well I don't think its ever happened yet. I cant remember the game but I remember one that released without two classes that never even made it into the game before shutdown, its comical. (which they didn't mention were not in the game on launch lol).
They can charge for an expansion, at least it's real content. And not loot crates like H1Z1... However, If you are going to do that, then market the game as released and include the expansion in the full game price.
Even if you have the game already, that doesn't mean you'll get the expac for free, but at least you know your playing the released version. and that $20 you paid 18 months ago, I'm sure you got your money's worth.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Not for any logical reasons because I agree with all the logic but rather because of the output. I simply really enjoy playing all those top Early Access titles and most of them are better than any other game i Have ever played.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I said they were going to do this about 5-6 months ago when they first were discussing it on reddit (before all the bans and deletes lol) and you guys laughed me out of the house! It's funny that it's come to pass and everyone's like "wut? wut?" LOL. You can't always get everything for free folks. This kinda proves it.
Is there anything inherently wrong with the base game? Looking at the hub it has 50,000+ people in game, as well as the expansion is near the top in global top sellers. Seems to be doing just fine to me... Doesn't seem like most care..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So its not okay to release paid DLC for a company who isn't getting as much money as you think (look at how much is being taken by Microsoft and them before they get their money), but its perfectly fine for developers to release paid DLC to "finish" a game that was already in full release? I mean really whats the difference? I wasn't really happy to see a paid DLC during early access at first but then I thought to myself, Why not give them a bit more money to help along towards a more finished product upon release. At least the $45 I have put towards the game now with the DLC gives me complete access to the game and I'm not having to pay hundreds of dollars after a $60 to get content for a game that was in "full release" 3 months ago. Stop acting like your entitled to everything, the game was already cheaper than most games of its like on steam, now its cheaper after DLC dropped. These hard working Devs need to make a living as well, they aren't your slaves that just make games when and how you want for no money. Should they have explained their reasoning behind the DLC at this stage better? yes. Do they deserve to be paid for what has been the best DLC I have seen for a game in ages? yes.
and on a final note I am really tired of such whiny articles on this site. I used to come here for great game news and updates on coming features to games I play, now all I see is whine whine whine from what seem to be inexperienced writers. But that's a paragraph for another day.
and on a final note I am really tired of such whiny articles on this site. I used to come here for great game news and updates on coming features to games I play, now all I see is whine whine whine from what seem to be inexperienced writers. But that's a paragraph for another day.
that is not being fair.
They rarely ever write articles that are complaining
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You charge for your game and don't wipe progress it's launched. Call it Early Access or Early Enrollment or whatever made up excuse term you want. It's launched. If more articles showed balls like this one maybe the industry wouldn't be filled with apologists at every turn.
Well done.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You charge for your game and don't wipe progress it's launched. Call it Early Access or Early Enrollment or whatever made up excuse term you want. It's launched. If more articles showed balls like this one maybe the industry wouldn't be filled with apologists at every turn.
Well done.
I dont speak of all gamers but I do speak for a lot. There are a lot of us who dont give a rats ass if the game is called 'early access' or 'nut sacks'
we just care if that game is fun.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I skimmed most of the comments. I look at it this way. If there is a team making paid content then that means that I can't view the game as being in early access. That means if game is not considered finished by the company then I want nothing to do with that project until a time where everything is packaged very cheap. I might no longer be interested by then though. This does mean that if I had bought early access and then paid content was added before product is finished then my review/score of the game would change. I am not longer testing all the content so I can no longer give an accurate review. This really just adds to my mistrust of helping a game financially before release. I get burned enough from full release games as is.
Comments
Saying that people respond to you only because they secretly agree with you is...interesting. You must have been a gem in debate class.
With an attitude like that, though, you are correct on one part. There is no point in discussing anything with you.
all I care about is is the game fun and I want reviews to address that question. I try to avoid reviews that appear to have other agendas
now please stop replying to me and try to figure out your own moral questions without me. leave me out of it already!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But the alpha dino's in Scorched Earth are some of the most powerful in the game ! Ark has a very active PVP community. Some are calling it "backdoor P2W"...
You seem to be implying that people are only interested in debating you about your views because they/we somehow are secretively feeling insecure about our own opinion. Ending an argument with "well in the end this is just my opinion and you're not changing it" is an informal fallacy. You didn't state it initially as an opinion, you stated it as fact. When we try to offer evidence, you attempted to establish a proof by assertion and an argument ad nauseum until ultimately you just stated "it's my opinion you can't change it". So many things wrong with that.
So basically you are saying "I feel I'm right because so many people disagree with me, and the fact that they disagree me so strongly must be because they feel threatened by how right I am". Sounds like what someone who is wrong, and there is overwhelming evidence against them, would say before ducking out.
See two can play at that game. Enjoy your day.
let it go
I stated my views ages ago everyone just let it go. its not going to change
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
But this game shouldn't be an EA title... it's on Xbox, it's on Playstation. I've played it.. it's basically a finished game... just still buggy in many ways.
Releasing DLC at this point... well they deserve all the negative feedback they receive.
Now I will actually let it go, since you are no longer attempting any veiled superiority or vindication. That's all I was asking for. Don't leave an argument and at the same time try to still imply that the other person is wrong.
I hope you are kidding. I don't agree with a single point you made.
Great article op. I won't be buying ARK anytime soon. Finish the core game and then start begging for more money.
Game developers have shareholders that demand profits and game developers get laid off if they don't make said profits . There I translated if from whiney millennial to real world English for you.
This DLC... Marks the release of the game and it should now be rated and scored as such. Feature in-complete and broken as it is... Yeah they rah out of money... Yes they need more.. I get that. But this is my line in the sand. This is it.
Now ofc my opinion matter jack and less but still it is what it is.
This have been a good conversation
Profits come once the game has been released. You don't profit on a product before you sell it. The resources spend on this expansion should have been spent on the actual game. If they were planning to secure additional funding from the community to finish the game, the order should have been FIRST secure the funding (via a crowd-funding scheme), then use the funds to finish/add to the pre-release product.
This is what is wrong with the whole "Early access for money/Crowd-funding" business in gaming. The lines get blurred and it screws with people's heads.
The developer has already received the money (in advance) that they would have received by selling the game "at launch". In many cases, the entire target market will "buy" the game years before it is finished. The only "profit" the developer can look forward to on eventual launch is selling to players who were not interested enough to buy the game during Early Access. Grim prospect...
and so they decide to release a third official map/expansion and want to sip from the well a second time??
really .. the game only costs 30 bucks .. hell when I bought in it was only 20 bucks not on sale .. they have no micro transactions, no store, no gold coins/silver coins/ pearls etc etc .. no sub .. and no real way to generate income other then sales ..
they still feel their game is unfinished enough to call it complete (lord only knows why?) and need to generate some more income to continue development or pay people or whatever .. so freaking what .. its 20 bucks more .. making a total of 40/50 bucks total so far .. and thats still cheaper than I spent on The Division by a bigger company with more assets and that game still sucks
early access or not .. zillions of hours of players time has been spent enjoying the game .. everyone knows its a game in constant development .. hell I don't see how you could ever call a game that updates and expands this much "done"
just sayin'
-"Early Access" the death of quality PC gaming.
Even if you have the game already, that doesn't mean you'll get the expac for free, but at least you know your playing the released version. and that $20 you paid 18 months ago, I'm sure you got your money's worth.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Not for any logical reasons because I agree with all the logic but rather because of the output. I simply really enjoy playing all those top Early Access titles and most of them are better than any other game i Have ever played.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
and on a final note I am really tired of such whiny articles on this site. I used to come here for great game news and updates on coming features to games I play, now all I see is whine whine whine from what seem to be inexperienced writers. But that's a paragraph for another day.
They rarely ever write articles that are complaining
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Well done.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
we just care if that game is fun.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me