For those who don't have time to play MMOs - Should more MMOs have a built in bot system?

TheScavenger · October 2016

In Ultima Online, they allow botting to grind skills. And there are some other MMOs with a bot-like system. There is of course EVE where you can train skills in real time, though its slow as paint drying.

However, should more MMOs have a built-in bot system? For example, for those who don't have time to play and complain about time to win...shouldn't the developers allow them to grind levels (or skills) when they can't play? And allow also looting for gold and items?

This would prevent someone who has all day to play games, a huge advantage over someone who has to work and spend time with family and real life obligations. And they'd get a bit of gold/items out of it, so they aren't at a disadvantage.

Would this work in MMOs like GW2 and WoW? Especially WoW, the winners are the ones who play all day and do world firsts...the no lifers. But what about those who have to work and spend a lot of time with family? This would let them still keep up with the " 1 percenters", but still also allow them to have fun and play the game like it was intended at endgame.

Ultima Online, Asheron's Call and SWG all allowed this, and it greatly benefited the game for the people who subscribed and played the game. This would also remove the grinding part of the game, which a lot of gamers don't like about MMOs in general. The no lifer can of course still grind like usual, but the person with a severe lack of time can still keep up with the 1% who dominate the MMO.

I think it would be great for more MMOs and current MMOs to allow this. Again, a major issue (at least in WoW) is the 1% who dominate the game due to them having all the time in the world to play. Everyone else are like the rats scavenging for anything they can. A lot of MMOs are like this sadly.

But old MMOs (again UO/AC/SWG) allowed bots or others have had built-in bot system and it really helps those with not much time to play compared to the 1% who dominate.

What does everyone think? Personally, I think this would be a great feature as it would completely remove someone just playing 24/7 and them being at a massive advantage. Again, most if not all old MMOs allowed this...why not bring it back?

TheScavenger · October 2016

Also, for MMOs like WoW where its heavy raid dependant to keep up with the 1%...a built in bot system could allow a group of players to turn it on, and auto do the dungeons and raids. Blizzard could design their bot-like system to allow this to be perfectly done. Not the hardest raids, but the raids that will allow them to keep up with the 1%.

There should NEVER be a design where only 1% of players can experience and dominate the game. WoW this is heavily the worst part of the game. A bot-like system would completely remove the power of the 1% of the playerbase and allow everyone a chance to be equals.

In UO, imagine if you had to spend 1000s of hours grinding each skill...manually. Instead, they allowed bots to do this for you in a matter of hours or days. In UO, if it was like WoW where the 1% who have nothing better to do but play all day and all week and all month...1% would dominate everyone and the game would crash and die. Instead, they allowed bots to raise skills so they can be on par with the 1% of the game. Same with Asheron's Call and SWG.

WoW and many MMOs can take advantage of this, so everyone can be equals in the MMO. Or at least balance the power to 50-75% of the playerbase...not have 1% of the playerbase dominate everyone and dictate how the game is designed.

Scorchien · October 2016

UO did not allow bots , even some macroing while afk was a bannable offense , wrestling bears ,Hiding Macro, some pickpoketing , all were bannable offenses, Aside from that the entire post is a wall of stupid imo ,

Then find another hobby .. Games are for Playing ... not for Not playing

TheScavenger · October 2016

Scorchien said:

UO did not allow bots , even some macroing while afk was a bannable offense , wrestling bears ,Hiding Macro, some pickpoketing , all were bannable offenses, Aside from that the entire post is a wall of stupid imo ,

Then find another hobby .. Games are for Playing ... not for Not playing

Yes, in UO they allowed bots, by way of macroing. Its the same thing in my eyes, letting a program play/do something for you. And I do remember some botting was bannable, but when I tried UO last year (official servers) they allowed botting to raise animal taming skills/mining and some other stuff. I'm pretty sure I could bot raising weapon skills

No difference between automated macros (as in UO) and bots, they do the same thing and pretty much accomplish the same goal. That was the same in Asheron's Call as well, they allowed a lot of bots to play the game. When I tried it a couple years ago, I saw buff bots and trade bots all over the place.

I guess the players sneaky choice of wording "macroing" makes it okay, while botting is bad...even though its the same lol.

In any case, older MMOs allowed it and it evened the playfield A LOT. However, newer MMOs (like WoW) let the 1% dominate the game.

Unlike UO/AC where you could bot up (within the rules of what you could raise as far as stats/skills go) your character to be on an even play of everyone else.

Like I said, 1% of players should never dominate or dictate how a game is designed or dominate everyone else. This is a huge issue in a lot of MMOs.

Scorchien · October 2016

UO and AC did not allow botting and the extensive macroing (which some of was bannable in there hey days)
Until the communities for both games fell to numbers that it became acceptable and permissbale by the remaining communitiy and devs ..

SirAgravaine · October 2016

Bot-systems are counter-intuitive. So...no.

Krizzd · October 2016

In the future, in a dystopian society. You do not play game. But game plays game. You will never play the game, because the game will always play the game.

What then will a gamer do? Well, let me tell you. You will experience the real world!

And in this dystopian society, you will only have two things you will ever need to worry about: Work, and your assigned family unit

You will have no other worries, for the government will care for you. You will not worry about if someone has more time to do something fun than you, because everyone will be assigned tasks and each task will take the same time! There will be no pay to win, time to win, free to play or pay to play. It will be just is. And not to include, everyone will have the same amount of money!

For the glory of swotzkol! The future of gaming! Where games play games!

+1

TheScavenger · October 2016

Scorchien said:

UO and AC did not allow botting and the extensive macroing (which some of was bannable in there hey days)
Until the communities for both games fell to numbers that it became acceptable and permissbale by the remaining communitiy and devs ..

But regardless of population, they allowed it. It doesn't matter the reason. They saw that there was a top percent of players far overwhelming the game, making it so late comers and people with a lack of time couldn't ever catch up.

This prevents the 1% dominating the game, and allows the vast majority (maybe not 100% of players) to be on an even play level.

Do you not see a problem with 1% dominating 99% of everyone else? And dictating how the game is playing and dominating the entire game? Why should a tiny fraction of players be allowed to do this? At the expense of a huge majority of players, who have no hopes of ever catching up or being on the same level playfield?

If those 99% players instead give up and left, then that makes a dead MMO where 1% DOES turn into 100%, but then the MMO is dead because the 1% drove everyone away.

That is what happens to many games, when the company focuses on a tiny niche of players and not focusing on the vast majority of people.

TheFunky1 · October 2016

There are many great games out there and most of them are not MMO's. Most do not require timesinks or long periods of invested time to feel like they accomplished something or enjoyed themselves. If a person doesn't have time for an MMO they have plenty to choose from.

Also, bots playing a game for a person is so counter-intuitive to what a game should be that it defeats the purpose.

WoeToTheVanquished · October 2016

If implemented correctly, a micromanagement system for economics would be fine in an MMO. I do not find automated leveling or skilling to be acceptable -- but instead they should be a fun activity where players don't need to bot to gain. It's all a double edged sword because no matter what, people are going to bot to get ahead because that's what people want in a game -- to be the best.

Quizzical · October 2016

If some people don't have enough time to keep up with the people who have a lot of time, then the solution is not to have bots help the people with less time keep up. The solution is to make games that are readily enjoyed at your own pace even if you don't keep up with the people who have a lot of free time. If a person who doesn't have a lot of time to play games takes a year to play through the same content that someone with more time would clear in a month, that's fine so long as he does get to play everything eventually.

Octagon7711 · October 2016

Krizzd said:

In the future, in a dystopian society. You do not play game. But game plays game. You will never play the game, because the game will always play the game.

What then will a gamer do? Well, let me tell you. You will experience the real world!

And in this dystopian society, you will only have two things you will ever need to worry about: Work, and your assigned family unit

You will have no other worries, for the government will care for you. You will not worry about if someone has more time to do something fun than you, because everyone will be assigned tasks and each task will take the same time! There will be no pay to win, time to win, free to play or pay to play. It will be just is. And not to include, everyone will have the same amount of money!

For the glory of swotzkol! The future of gaming! Where games play games!

+1

I often thought one day you would be able to say something like, "Alexa, buy WoW 17 and the Founders Package, then create a Warlock named 'Sinbad', level him up to max and call me on my cell when your done, thanks."

coleman11b · October 2016

Let me see if I understand. If someone doesn't have time to play games, a bot will play said games for them. This will make sure that the game gets played. I see... games have feelings too. This would protect them from those feelings of loneliness and neglect whilst someone is busy working.

There is a simple fix here that doesn't require developers to spend unnecessary time, money, and energy so you can keep up with the Jones'. Play single player games. Heck, play session balanced multiplayer games like Mobas and the like. Or, spend your hard earned work money to pay for some conveniences that help you catch up.

Scorchien · October 2016

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

UO and AC did not allow botting and the extensive macroing (which some of was bannable in there hey days)
Until the communities for both games fell to numbers that it became acceptable and permissbale by the remaining communitiy and devs ..

But regardless of population, they allowed it. It doesn't matter the reason. They saw that there was a top percent of players far overwhelming the game, making it so late comers and people with a lack of time couldn't ever catch up.

This prevents the 1% dominating the game, and allows the vast majority (maybe not 100% of players) to be on an even play level.

Do you not see a problem with 1% dominating 99% of everyone else? And dictating how the game is playing and dominating the entire game? Why should a tiny fraction of players be allowed to do this? At the expense of a huge majority of players, who have no hopes of ever catching up or being on the same level playfield?

If those 99% players instead give up and left, then that makes a dead MMO where 1% DOES turn into 100%, but then the MMO is dead because the 1% drove everyone away.

That is what happens to many games, when the company focuses on a tiny niche of players and not focusing on the vast majority of people.

you are so misguided.....................all that was left was the 1% you speak of .. Do you understand now..the 99% had already left .. it was made permmisable and acepetable by/to/and for the 1% conveinevce ...

waynejr2 · October 2016

Quizzical said:

If some people don't have enough time to keep up with the people who have a lot of time, then the solution is not to have bots help the people with less time keep up. The solution is to make games that are readily enjoyed at your own pace even if you don't keep up with the people who have a lot of free time. If a person who doesn't have a lot of time to play games takes a year to play through the same content that someone with more time would clear in a month, that's fine so long as he does get to play everything eventually.

That would require a player to change is attitudes about missing out on having things right now. You can't expect today's players to have to put any effort into changing something about themselves.

Octagon7711 · October 2016

If AI's continue to develop, players will hack them to login and play parts of their games for them perhaps just for gathering, crafting, selling junk on the auction house. Just a matter of time, and you think people are complaining about P2W.
Image result for amazon echo war games

fodell54 · October 2016

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

UO did not allow bots , even some macroing while afk was a bannable offense , wrestling bears ,Hiding Macro, some pickpoketing , all were bannable offenses, Aside from that the entire post is a wall of stupid imo ,

Then find another hobby .. Games are for Playing ... not for Not playing

Yes, in UO they allowed bots, by way of macroing. Its the same thing in my eyes, letting a program play/do something for you. And I do remember some botting was bannable, but when I tried UO last year (official servers) they allowed botting to raise animal taming skills/mining and some other stuff. I'm pretty sure I could bot raising weapon skills

No difference between automated macros (as in UO) and bots, they do the same thing and pretty much accomplish the same goal. That was the same in Asheron's Call as well, they allowed a lot of bots to play the game. When I tried it a couple years ago, I saw buff bots and trade bots all over the place.

I guess the players sneaky choice of wording "macroing" makes it okay, while botting is bad...even though its the same lol.

In any case, older MMOs allowed it and it evened the playfield A LOT. However, newer MMOs (like WoW) let the 1% dominate the game.

Unlike UO/AC where you could bot up (within the rules of what you could raise as far as stats/skills go) your character to be on an even play of everyone else.

Like I said, 1% of players should never dominate or dictate how a game is designed or dominate everyone else. This is a huge issue in a lot of MMOs.

No, UO didn't allow macroing. They looked a blind eye to it and always have for the most part. I personally have recieved a temp ban ( 3 day bans) for using an unapproved third party programs to macro. Since they have no approved third party macroing program, minus UO Assist. Whcih won't loop enough to actually be considered a macroing program. It's pretty easy to see that it's not authorized.

So, with that I'm here to tell you that you cheated. You may not have been aware that you couldn't legal do what you were doing because everyone does it. However, you could have been banned for it.

xyzercrime · October 2016

My Solution:
For those who don't have time to play MMO, don't fucking play a MMO.
Can't compete with others? Then don't try to fucking compete, play with realistic goal instead.

Simple as fuck.

Octagon7711 · October 2016

Interesting thoughts. Deep Blue beat Gary Kasparov. Watson won on Jeopardy. It's just a matter time before someone tries to hook one up to an MMO or RPG if only to see if it can be done.

TheScavenger · October 2016

xyzercrime said:

My Solution:
For those who don't have time to play MMO, don't fucking play a MMO.
Can't compete with others? Then don't try to fucking compete, play with realistic goal instead.

Simple as fuck.

That isn't so much an issue, unless the 1% can dominate and dictate what everyone else can experience. In WoW, the devs ONLY listen to the 1%...why do they deserve such power compared to everyone else? If however it was more balanced in power, say between 50-75%...it would be far more fair for the majority of players. Why play an MMO if the 1% can dominate you no matter how much or how skilled you are? Just because they happen to play more than 99% of everyone else?

Allowing at least "some" automation like older MMOs provided or even get built in (which I've seen before), would solve a lot of the problem.

TheScavenger · October 2016

If macroing and built in-botting are not the answer. There needs to be a way to take down the 1% to an even playing field.

Look at EVE. The Goonsquad was #1 for a long time, however even they were brought down and left with nearly nothing. It took multiple alliances and a huge, long war...but they lost.

Now look at WoW and many raid based themepark MMOs. No one can take down the 1%, they just get stronger and stronger. They are able to play more, and once they dominate, no one can stand up against them.

Maybe instead, when someone or a guild gets to the 1%, they become kill on sight whether on a PVE or PvP server. So while they are the 1%, they have a huge weakness of being killable by EVERYONE, no matter the faction. So sorta like in EVE where the Goonsquad became kill on sight.

LynxJSA · October 2016

Scav, when it comes knowledge of one's chosen subject matter, you've careened deep into Wizardry territory lately. You add that bit of MMOExposed flair to it, so it keeps it interesting, but it's still unlike you.

What gives?

Kyleran · October 2016

In a raid based theme park such as WOW what exactly is there to win?

xyzercrime · October 2016

TheScavenger said:

xyzercrime said:

My Solution:
For those who don't have time to play MMO, don't fucking play a MMO.
Can't compete with others? Then don't try to fucking compete, play with realistic goal instead.

Simple as fuck.

That isn't so much an issue, unless the 1% can dominate and dictate what everyone else can experience. In WoW, the devs ONLY listen to the 1%...why do they deserve such power compared to everyone else? If however it was more balanced in power, say between 50-75%...it would be far more fair for the majority of players. Why play an MMO if the 1% can dominate you no matter how much or how skilled you are? Just because they happen to play more than 99% of everyone else?

Allowing at least "some" automation like older MMOs provided or even get built in (which I've seen before), would solve a lot of the problem.

There was a Kyleran's saying, something like this (that I agree with him):

"Real life isn't fair, neither is MMO."

Scav, with all you just said you emphasize too much on being "fair." You don't really want to inhabit a MMO, you just want to create another form of communism.

If you think a MMO should be fair, then I disagree with you. Being unfair makes it more entertaining for me.

I take my leave.

anemo · October 2016

I played Screeps for 2 months.   Which is a MMO empire building game, where you control your units by programming them, and leaving them running 24 hours a day.

There are a few text based games that have "freedom" servers where you can use any tools at your disposal as long as they don't damage the game.   Since most text based games are accessed by telnet clients(read not made by the developers) that means botting is allowed on that specific ruleset.

Iron Realms games are impossible to play without bot assist, at least in PvPer.   Since the real health bar is status conditions inflicted on you(hundred of status conditions, and you could end up seeing 10 to 50 over the course of a 1 on 1 fight) and your ability to out heal/handle them.   Even some of the newbie PvE enemies can make you unable to even play combat if you don't know how to out heal them.

But all of these games have it where you know what you're getting into before you really even start. They also don't actually save anytime since making a good bot takes more time in the first place, than what I'd expect to put into an MMO.

LacedOpium · October 2016

Congratulations!

I did not think it possible given the enormous entitlement mentality of many players nowadays but you have blown the lid of that cap and taken the meaning of entitlement way out there to the next level in the stratosphere somewhere.

Please allow me to edit the title of this thread for you and re-type it as it should read ...

For those who don't have time to play MMOs ...

if you don't have the time, then don't play!!!

Howdy, Stranger!

For those who don't have time to play MMOs - Should more MMOs have a built in bot system?

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

For those who don't have time to play MMOs ...

if you don't have the time, then don't play!!!

Howdy, Stranger!

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For those who don't have time to play MMOs - Should more MMOs have a built in bot system?

Comments

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

For those who don't have time to play MMOs ...

if you don't have the time, then don't play!!!