YouTubers Plead Not Guilty to Promoting Video Game Gambling

[Deleted User] · October 2016

The user and all related content has been deleted.

SpottyGekko · October 2016

It was inevitable, wasn't it ?

The law is slowly catching-up with the internet. Very slowly, but steadily.

H0urg1ass · October 2016

I can only hope and pray that this type of thing will eventually lead to making RNG loot boxes illegal as a form of gambling.

goboygo · October 2016

H0urg1ass said:

I can only hope and pray that this type of thing will eventually lead to making RNG loot boxes illegal as a form of gambling.

Agreed, they have no place in computer games.

Talonsin · October 2016

H0urg1ass said:

I can only hope and pray that this type of thing will eventually lead to making RNG loot boxes illegal as a form of gambling.

We can only hope...

MaxBacon · October 2016

Oooh and this UK I think. If this was in Australia they'd been thrown into a pit full of a million species of snakes already.

Too much exploitation in this area, though you ain't collecting back any money on lootboxes and similar so gambling laws aren't applying; who knows where that is going but knowing governments if they can make good money with that they'll just tax the hell out of it.

teddy_bare · October 2016

RNG lootboxes will never be "banned" or deemed unlawful b/c they are no different than packs of sports or magic cards, or blind-box collectibles. You are paying for, and getting SOMETHING, it may not be exactly what you want, but it will be something.

That's why it is not gambling. The definition of gambling is risking possible total loss for the potential of possible gains. There is no total loss possible w/ lootboxes, hence why they will never be deemed illegal.

goboygo · October 2016

teddy_bare said:

RNG lootboxes will never be "banned" or deemed unlawful b/c they are no different than packs of sports or magic cards, or blind-box collectibles. You are paying for, and getting SOMETHING, it may not be exactly what you want, but it will be something.

That's why it is not gambling. The definition of gambling is risking possible total loss for the potential of possible gains. There is no total loss possible w/ lootboxes, hence why they will never be deemed illegal.

That's why its not considering gambling TODAY. Unless the law is changed to include paying for something and not knowing EXACTLY what your getting. Your gambling that its something good and not something you wouldn't of wanted to buy. And you can pay more and more and more money trying to get what you want. I can easily see the scope of the law changing to include something like this.

craftseeker · October 2016

MaxBacon said:

Oooh and this UK I think. If this was in Australia they'd been thrown into a pit full of a million species of snakes already.

Too much exploitation in this area, though you ain't collecting back any money on lootboxes and similar so gambling laws aren't applying; who knows where that is going but knowing governments if they can make good money with that they'll just tax the hell out of it.

That's unfair we only have about 140 species of land snake plus a few more sea snakes. Only a dozen or so species are really dangerous.

Unfortunately there is not much restriction on online gambling here, just on providing online gambling services.

Ishkal · October 2016

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

Hrimnir · October 2016

God if there was a court precedent that made blizzard style loot crates illegal, i would fucking jump for joy.

Dota does it correctly. You see exactly what you get, there is some randomness to it, but you can never get the same item again. It's fair and open. You know what you're paying for.

ConstantineMerus · October 2016

Don't you just love it when you can't spend your money on gambling to ruin your own life but you can spend it on actual firepower and ruin several others?

Scot · October 2016

The casino gameplay that is so prevalent in MMO's has long been questioned on this site. This is certainly a vindication for those of us who speak out against it. But things will not change quickly, I doubt we will bans for this style of play around the world for at least another ten years.

kitarad · October 2016

When I was playing Everquest and other games where they used the random roll to determine who gets what and I always lost I used to hate it. I want it to be based on who was there the longest that way I could have cut down my camping by countless hours. Why just loot boxes why not remove random loot rolls too since it is based on chance too.

Also remove random loot from bosses since that is a chance too and RNG from crafting results. Let's remove all forms of chance in games.

Vrika · October 2016

ConstantineMerus said:

Don't you just love it when you can't spend your money on gambling to ruin your own life but you can spend it on actual firepower and ruin several others?

Adults can spend their money for both guns and gambling, but these guys were selling gambling to children.

laserit · October 2016

teddy_bare said:

RNG lootboxes will never be "banned" or deemed unlawful b/c they are no different than packs of sports or magic cards, or blind-box collectibles. You are paying for, and getting SOMETHING, it may not be exactly what you want, but it will be something.

That's why it is not gambling. The definition of gambling is risking possible total loss for the potential of possible gains. There is no total loss possible w/ lootboxes, hence why they will never be deemed illegal.

Never say never

MaxBacon · October 2016

craftseeker said:
That's unfair we only have about 140 species of land snake plus a few more sea snakes. Only a dozen or so species are really dangerous.

Unfortunately there is not much restriction on online gambling here, just on providing online gambling services.

We only have 2 dangerous snakes.

Australia seems to shock a lot with gambling on online games ratings, even if it is virtual and there's no cash-back.

teddy_bare · October 2016

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

laserit · October 2016

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. One may question their ethics and morals but the trade was legal. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves and the innocent victims who are the collateral damage.

sayuu · October 2016

laserit said:

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves.

let's ban milk for the lactose intolerant

let's ban peanuts too

let's make women wear robes covering them from head to toe cause some men can't control their urges

let's ban automobiles because some people kill others with them, let's add guns too.

now that I think about it, we should just ban all food because some people can't stop themselves from eating it. . . .

. . .we must protect the rabble from themselves, because personal responsibility is out of fashion.

laserit · October 2016

sayuu said:

laserit said:

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves.

let's ban milk for the lactose intolerant

let's ban peanuts too

let's make women wear robes covering them from head to toe cause some men can't control their urges

let's ban automobiles because some people kill others with them, let's add guns too.

now that I think about it, we should just ban all food because some people can't stop themselves from eating it. . . .

. . .we must protect the rabble from themselves, because personal responsibility is out of fashion.

Lol

There are many laws and regulations in all those industries that protect *you* from unethical and immoral profiteering.

sayuu · October 2016

laserit said:

sayuu said:

laserit said:

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves.

let's ban milk for the lactose intolerant

let's ban peanuts too

let's make women wear robes covering them from head to toe cause some men can't control their urges

let's ban automobiles because some people kill others with them, let's add guns too.

now that I think about it, we should just ban all food because some people can't stop themselves from eating it. . . .

. . .we must protect the rabble from themselves, because personal responsibility is out of fashion.

Lol

There are many laws and regulations in all those industries the protect *you* from unethical and immoral profiteering.

just like gambling laws today. . .

sayuu · October 2016

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

nope, it is a great comparison.

when you pay for an rng box that gives one item you get one item. . .

much like how you get 8 cards in a 8 card pack. . .

the items personal worth to the buyer is irrelevant in regards to the metaphor.

laserit · October 2016

sayuu said:

laserit said:

sayuu said:

laserit said:

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves.

let's ban milk for the lactose intolerant

let's ban peanuts too

let's make women wear robes covering them from head to toe cause some men can't control their urges

let's ban automobiles because some people kill others with them, let's add guns too.

now that I think about it, we should just ban all food because some people can't stop themselves from eating it. . . .

. . .we must protect the rabble from themselves, because personal responsibility is out of fashion.

Lol

There are many laws and regulations in all those industries the protect *you* from unethical and immoral profiteering.

just like gambling laws today. . .

The law books aren't getting any thinner

and the law makers go to work every morning.

Iselin · October 2016

Torval said:

From the article, "who boats more than 1.3 million subscribers". What sized ship do they need to accommodate that many people.

I know the Brits love their gambling (horses, etc, and all that), but I would think they would be more concerned about maritime safety than gambling.

Isn't it interesting how the UK agencies are concerned about the actual gambling and not the source of the digital items or that they can be resold. That's because with the FIFA games there was actual GAMBLING. You know they placed BETS and then totally won or lost all of that BET. That's gambling for those kids who don't know any better.

This doesn't have to do with digital items being made or sold. This has to do with actual gambling. I'm sure there are some here that still don't get the difference. (pro-tip: it has to do with betting).

Yeah. Some in this thread made the jump rather too quickly over to the loot box debate.

To me the important bit here is not even the gambling aspect but rather that there is thankfully 3at least one country somewhere that is willing to try to adapt the principles of well established regulations from the analog world into the virtual arena instead of throwing their hands up in the air and saying it's too hard to regulate.

And even more importantly, if you click on the related links at the bottom of the article they are also going after the increasingly common advertising deception of using social media influencers for product promotion. The equivalent here would be if MMORPG.COM sponsored articles were not labeled as such.

H0urg1ass · October 2016

sayuu said:

laserit said:

teddy_bare said:

Ishkal said:

magic cards are not a good comparison. When I pay for 8 cards I get 8 cards. you don't know what you are getting in an RNG box and mostly it's just stealing your money for a 1 in 10000 chance and you do not receive anything of value comparable to what you paid

But...with lootboxes you pay for 1 item, and you get 1 item. You don't know what it may be, exactly like you don't know what Magic or sports cards, or blind-box collectible you will get from those boxes. With cards/collectibles you may get something you already have, or you may get the rarest or the rare...exactly the same w/ lootboxes. It's all relative, these are all things people assign a secondary value to. In card packs the secondary collectors market or game players determine how much value a card has, but in reality to someone who doesn't play, they are just useless pieces of cardboard, whereas in lootboxes it's a digital item, but the same principal applies.

The only difference is you have chosen to dislike loot boxes, despite them using the exact same principles as things you have probably bought in the past, like the examples I mentioned.

Once upon a time not all that very long ago, drugs such as opium were perfectly legal. There were places called Opium Dens, where the rich and affluent as well as the working class went and enjoyed a little puff. Now smoking a little opium here and there, really poses no harm and what one does with one's own body is really one's own business. But these things were made illegal, they were not made illegal because of the Black Market, it was a legal business and trade in Opium was done by law abiding businessmen. The trade became illegal because of the drugs addictive qualities and the damage it did to individuals as well as the communities because of those addictive qualities.

In many cases laws are made and/or changed to protect a small percentage of the population from themselves.

let's ban milk for the lactose intolerant

let's ban peanuts too

let's make women wear robes covering them from head to toe cause some men can't control their urges

let's ban automobiles because some people kill others with them, let's add guns too.

now that I think about it, we should just ban all food because some people can't stop themselves from eating it. . . .

. . .we must protect the rabble from themselves, because personal responsibility is out of fashion.

I'm sorry, but this is a list of nonsense. We aren't talking about telling well informed, responsible adults what they can and cannot do with their lives. What we're talking about is taking ill informed, not yet educated to the dangers, children and keeping them away from the early influences of gambling addiction.

Yes, I agree that adults can, and should, be making those decisions for themselves, and if these games had a way to screen the children from the adults very reliably, and keep the gambling aspect separate, then I wouldn't mind as much. However, since this is absolutely impossible, and since children are a major audience for video games, then I don't think gambling should be included in any form.

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YouTubers Plead Not Guilty to Promoting Video Game Gambling

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YouTubers Plead Not Guilty to Promoting Video Game Gambling

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