Remember all the whiteknight fanboys that gave Suzie so much shit for calling the code release a week or two ago? You people owe her an apology because she nailed it.
Ha. Not a chance. It's clear that this site delivers the news from a distinct position. A few people have pointed out the other half of the story. Go read some Nostalrius info and be informed instead of eating it from the spoon.
As a Pole myself I wouldn't trust in every word they say.
They have really hurt their own credibility with those inside Blizzard who would support and have the power to make vanilla servers happen:
"“I can’t speak for Nostalrius, but I can say I really thoroughly enjoyed our meeting with them,” Hazzikostas told me. “A ton of us on the team, myself included, are day-one World of Warcraft players and beta players. I work at Blizzard because of my love for the original World of Warcraft, so I definitely feel a great sense of nostalgia for those times. It was really cool meeting a team of enthusiasts who put together their own project trying to reverse-engineer and make sure those days are represented. They’re a great group of people. It was really cool seeing their passion.”
“But as we said on our forums a couple weeks ago, it’s something we’re still discussing,” he added. “It’s something that, if we were to do it at Blizzard, we’d need to do it at a Blizzard-level of quality. That’s a large undertaking. It’s like launching a new game, for all intents and purposes. If we could flip a switch and just make it happen, we would. But it’s not that simple. So it’s something we’re still discussing internally, and we wanted to make sure people understood we’re not closing the door on it, but also we don’t have anything to announce just yet.”"
If Blizzard is really considering legacy servers, any time in the future, this shouldn't hurt that in any way. If the future of official legacy servers was hanging on the Nost team, then WTF is all I can say. The want for legacy obviously spans far beyond Nostalrius and the team behind it.
If Blizzard claims that this some how sets them back, or is making them rethink the possibility then it's nothing but an excuse. Which will fit right into my idea that this decision by the Nost team is exactly what Blizzard was hoping for, if for no other reason than to shut up a large majority of people while they do actually work on legacy servers.
I don't think they'll say it sets them back, but I think that, at least for now, their priorities are with Legion and current-version WoW. If Legion had been a failure, things might have moved along in a way that was more pleasing to the Nost team. As it's been a pretty big hit (whether anyone cares for its content or not), their priority is with current content.
As I've said a bunch but will again reiterate: I think that if Blizzard puts up vanilla servers in whatever timeline suits them, it's fantastic. It's important, however, that it's their decision when that will happen to match their standards. There's no question people will play it and there's nothing wrong with that. But this blackmail, this unethical, if not illegal, use of intellectual property that doesn't belong to so-called "pirate" servers is not the right way to go about it.
The 21st century method of bullying people and corporations into things is a huge step backwards in humankind's evolution.
In the end classic servers would be a huge waste of time for the 100k people who would play it and actually pay Blizzard for it. Because if Bliz releases it themselves you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be free. People would just end up filtering into the current content anyway, because why stay paying for old Bliz when you can get the new shiny stuff they come out with.
Either Bliz just needs to contract the rights to Nostalrius and make a constant trickle off it. Or they need to stop beating around the bush saying "maybe" when it will never happen.
If they actually stick to a constant stream of content in this Xpac they shouldn't need to worry about it anyway. The announcements at Blizzcon looked quite decent for Legion, if they can stick the landing.
As I've said a bunch but will again reiterate: I think that if Blizzard puts up vanilla servers in whatever timeline suits them, it's fantastic. It's important, however, that it's their decision when that will happen to match their standards. There's no question people will play it and there's nothing wrong with that. But this blackmail, this unethical, if not illegal, use of intellectual property that doesn't belong to so-called "pirate" servers is not the right way to go about it.
The 21st century method of bullying people and corporations into things is a huge step backwards in humankind's evolution.
To be perfectly technical here server code isn't blizzard's either as it wasn't stolen from them. It is open source + some fixes from nost devs.
Time to play alittle Devils Advocate here, but shame on Blizzard and shame on MMORPG.com. I think the editors should know better, shame on you Suzie and Bill.
Now Im not saying what the guys at Nost did was right, but I think they were still justified. All Blizz has ever given them is alot of lip service, and nothing to back it up. If Blizz had their way they would have these guys on the hook for years to come with nothing to show for it.
SOE (now Daybreak) has had time locked and progression servers for years in multiple of their games. They also have a very friendly relationship with the P1999 guys running private servers, which are basically "official unofficial" servers now. If Blizzard ever intended to have vanilla servers they could have done it anytime they wanted.
And NO, Legion is no excuse. Trying to say they have been busy with an expansion is a load of PR BS, and I hate that Suzie tries to use that as an excuse. They have plenty of money and resources to do both, and getting a team to work on a vanilla server would in no way interfere with another team working on an expansion.
And Im glad you like Legion Bill. Many people do. Others do not. Just because Legion is the "best the game has ever been" for you, doesnt make any other opinion of it worth less. Clearly there is a very large population of WOW players who would prefer a vanilla server, and their voices have no gone unheard.
Now we see a very convenient interview published at IGN saying Blizzard is still "interested" in Vanilla. It doesnt matter that this comes only after Nost makes the first move. Sure maybe they should have handled it differently, but the blame is on Blizz also. To say there will be no talk of it at Blizzcon, knowing thats what the players want, is a huge slap in the face. Its not a far speculation to assume Blizzard had no intentions of making a vanilla server, and planned to "table" the talks for as long as possible.
I really hope the staff here at MMORPG, take just one minute to really think about the events and what Blizzard has said and what we have seen them do so far (which isnt much) to move in the right direction. Maybe Blizzard helps pay the bills around here, but you really cant be that blind. Sometimes the little guy does what he thinks is right, even if everyone else sees it as wrong. Only time will tell if it really is or not.
Nost were running / facilitating vanilla servers. Cease and desist: closed. The revenue stream that was funding the operation will have ceased.
Consequently the folks behind it will have had no choice but to move on, get jobs, move house etc.
Its unrealistic to expect them to sit around waiting for a(nother) call from Blizzard that may or may not come to anything.
And - because their shared passion is vanilla WoW - they have thrown the baton (the net code) into the air for anyone out there who wants to pick it up.
In the end classic servers would be a huge waste of time for the 100k people who would play it and actually pay Blizzard for it. Because if Bliz releases it themselves you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be free. People would just end up filtering into the current content anyway, because why stay paying for old Bliz when you can get the new shiny stuff they come out with.
Either Bliz just needs to contract the rights to Nostalrius and make a constant trickle off it. Or they need to stop beating around the bush saying "maybe" when it will never happen.
If they actually stick to a constant stream of content in this Xpac they shouldn't need to worry about it anyway. The announcements at Blizzcon looked quite decent for Legion, if they can stick the landing.
I have to agree with this. The amount of people who want a classic server setup, and would actually pay for access, is at best minimal. You'd have the initial push, but after a few weeks/months, I'd wager the rose tinted glasses would come off.
Releasing classic servers also sets a precedence. People might start asking for BC servers, WotLK servers, Cata servers, etc. Do we then have a separate server for any former expansion at some point? Is Blizzard willing to fragment the community in such a way? Again, how many people are also willing to put up money for this? How much dev time does a project like this take away from the current iteration of WoW?
After the actions of the Nost team, there is zero chance at Blizzard contracting them out. There was basically zero chance originally, but certainly not now, and probably never for another other independent team.
I'd be willing to wager that Blizzard is going to keep along with the "we'd like to do this, but we need to focus on current version" song and dance for as long as the discussion is active. At some point, the fervor will die down and Blizzard can effectively forget the discussion ever took place. If official vanilla servers ever happen it most likely won't happen for years.
The only thing I can think of is that they were under the impression that Blizzard would be forth coming in giving them some sort of time commitment. When it looked like that wouldn't happen they released the code. They must know that Blizzard is on a role and it could have been years before Blizzard even started thinking about planning a vanilla server. Plus Blizzard can always start up such a server anytime they want. If those guys were waiting on a job, they realized it could take years or may not have happened at all.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If Blizzard based their decision to have a vanilla server off of the actions of a few rash people then they would be just as childish. Nost may have been the voice of the crowd wanting vanilla, but that's it.
I hardly see this as news. There are literally hundreds of private WOW servers and even a ton of 'vanilla' ones. I think this is much to do about nothing.
45 comments within 2 hours says it's news. I'd say it's "a lot of ado about something".
Agreed SB. They released the code but aren't hosting any servers? That is kind of useless to the community that thinks Vanilla WoW was all that. I am looking forward to players who never experienced Vanilla WoW playing it and see the runs that had to be made, the scarcity of cash, level 40 slow mounts, 40 man raids.
In the end classic servers would be a huge waste of time for the 100k people who would play it and actually pay Blizzard for it. Because if Bliz releases it themselves you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be free. People would just end up filtering into the current content anyway, because why stay paying for old Bliz when you can get the new shiny stuff they come out with.
Either Bliz just needs to contract the rights to Nostalrius and make a constant trickle off it. Or they need to stop beating around the bush saying "maybe" when it will never happen.
If they actually stick to a constant stream of content in this Xpac they shouldn't need to worry about it anyway. The announcements at Blizzcon looked quite decent for Legion, if they can stick the landing.
I have to agree with this. The amount of people who want a classic server setup, and would actually pay for access, is at best minimal. You'd have the initial push, but after a few weeks/months, I'd wager the rose tinted glasses would come off.
Releasing classic servers also sets a precedence. People might start asking for BC servers, WotLK servers, Cata servers, etc. Do we then have a separate server for any former expansion at some point? Is Blizzard willing to fragment the community in such a way? Again, how many people are also willing to put up money for this? How much dev time does a project like this take away from the current iteration of WoW?
After the actions of the Nost team, there is zero chance at Blizzard contracting them out. There was basically zero chance originally, but certainly not now, and probably never for another other independent team.
I'd be willing to wager that Blizzard is going to keep along with the "we'd like to do this, but we need to focus on current version" song and dance for as long as the discussion is active. At some point, the fervor will die down and Blizzard can effectively forget the discussion ever took place. If official vanilla servers ever happen it most likely won't happen for years.
I guess I am one of those. I am always on the fence an re-subbing. I would stay subbed if I could hop back and forth between vanilla and my main characters. It is like offering 2 MMOs for the $15. . I am not going to pay $15 extra though. Have it included in the $15 a month and I am sure there would be some more subs. Maybe I am in the tiny minority though. It might bring people back who then get re-hooked on the main game though.
They have really hurt their own credibility with those inside Blizzard who would support and have the power to make vanilla servers happen:
"“I can’t speak for Nostalrius, but I can say I really thoroughly enjoyed our meeting with them,” Hazzikostas told me. “A ton of us on the team, myself included, are day-one World of Warcraft players and beta players. I work at Blizzard because of my love for the original World of Warcraft, so I definitely feel a great sense of nostalgia for those times. It was really cool meeting a team of enthusiasts who put together their own project trying to reverse-engineer and make sure those days are represented. They’re a great group of people. It was really cool seeing their passion.”
“But as we said on our forums a couple weeks ago, it’s something we’re still discussing,” he added. “It’s something that, if we were to do it at Blizzard, we’d need to do it at a Blizzard-level of quality. That’s a large undertaking. It’s like launching a new game, for all intents and purposes. If we could flip a switch and just make it happen, we would. But it’s not that simple. So it’s something we’re still discussing internally, and we wanted to make sure people understood we’re not closing the door on it, but also we don’t have anything to announce just yet.”"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
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Ofc this forums would be filled with people who mostly did not play wow in it's early days or has been following this issue very closely. It's not about power, it's not about money, it is PURELY about playing fucking vanilla. And that is what they'll and many others will do. The work they've done for FREE is unprecedented in this world and we have seen NOTHING like it, and probably never will. But you guys do not understand, and mostly everyone here is completely missing the point.
And a big lol to the people who says blizzard took them seriously. If they did they would be responding to them and not stringing them along. The people should be mad about lack of respect blizzard is showing the legacy crowd and nostalrius. But for some reason blizzard gets away with this shit time and time again. Because of brilliant games in the past they are untouchable. Some of you guys pretty much makes me sick and this is also why we cannot have nice things.
@Deekins you should probably ready their announcement, and research the situation a bit before making such foolish claims like you just did.
They have lost every iota of both sympathy and credibility they may have earned in their discussion with Blizzard. I hope Blizzard goes after the "owners" of Nostalrius in every possible legal way.
You're not very informed with the matter, research more before jumping into dull conclusions. Private server, hur dur, therefore sue them. Blizzard cares more about money, just like any other company, they can make way more money off legacy realms rather than just suing nostalrius and then getting a bad reputation and bad taste of legacy community. I've played in every single legacy server out there, the community is really close to each other and are very retaliative towards matters like these.
I hardly see this as news. There are literally hundreds of private WOW servers and even a ton of 'vanilla' ones. I think this is much to do about nothing.
Precisely. Everyone's up in arms about the Nost team, not realizing that they're literally parroting Blizzard's very oddly specific attack on one of dozens of private servers available.
The sad fact is that knock offs and mimics are the cost of doing business at this scale. See pretty much any popular brand of anything. If this was truly affecting Blizzard's bottom line, I would understand. There's a reason brands like Coach make their own knockoffs instead of releasing statements about how many knockoff retailers they've put out of business this week. It's making no noticeable dent in Blizzard's bottom line, which is all the stockholders care about.
Yea, I understand they're using an IP they don't own. But until each of you can prove you've never pirated a thing in your life, I find a lot of hypocrisy to the empassioned response we've seen towards the Nost team. They wanted a product that isn't offered anymore. Those of us pirating movies and music want a product that's offered, completely identically, in an official capacity. Yet we still, wholesale and without hesitation, share intellectual property against the wishes of their creators all the time. But because Blizzard is making a public fuss about this one, the lynch mobs have formed outside Nost's doors, ignoring the dozens of neighbors on the same street doing the same things.
They have lost every iota of both sympathy and credibility they may have earned in their discussion with Blizzard. I hope Blizzard goes after the "owners" of Nostalrius in every possible legal way.
You're not very informed with the matter, research more before jumping into dull conclusions. Private server, hur dur, therefore sue them. Blizzard cares more about money, just like any other company, they can make way more money off legacy realms rather than just suing nostalrius and then getting a bad reputation and bad taste of legacy community. I've played in every single legacy server out there, the community is really close to each other and are very retaliative towards matters like these.
That's probably not true. I think you need to do some research before you call someone out on "not doing research".
If Blizzard were to create legacy servers they would actually have to spend time, money and resources to support it. Remember, Blizzard isn't some group of guys out there who may or may not provide a great, polished experience. They are going to want to make sure that anything released it "done right".
Especially because their name is on the line. They will not only have to support it with "IT" but they will also have to have customer service to support it. I realize gamers think that running servers costs the change that one finds in one's couch but it really isn't.
Additionally, there is no guarantee that they will get a good amount of people playing it. Oh sure, some say they will (and I have no doubt that there is an audience for it) but I wonder how many players will really stick around and pay a sub when in the end all they wanted was to play "free" legacy servers. It's very easy for someone to vote in a poll saying "sure I'll pay" but the proof is in the pudding.
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Well that is one epic way to fail it all up. If Blizzard was considering it, and I'm sure there were, they definitely aren't now. This was not the way to go about it. I swear the more I hear about these Nost devs the more I think they are a bunch of self-entitled babies. "We didn't get what we wanted so now we are just gonna throw a hissy fit".
I hope Blizzard sues them into the ground so far their great grand kids are still paying the debt off.
Also edit to add: I hope Blizzard sues every single person that takes this code and opens a server. Time to put a stop to this crap. I understand why some private servers exist. SWGEmu is because SWG shut down. But WoW is still going. It may not be how some like it, but it is going and going strong. Personally I love how WoW is now. I don't remember vanilla being as good as some of these people scream it was.
Translation: I don't like vanilla so anyone who does is a self-entitled baby because they don't see things as I do.
I think there are plenty of "babies" on both sides of this issue.
No, you are wrong. I don't care if their is a vanilla server...From Blizzard. These assholes stole Blizzards IP and assets. Personally if I was Blizzard I would be suing these jackwads. Stealing someones work is not the way to go about doing things. This was theft by the Devs of Nost. I don't give a shit if you say it isn't, it is.
Oh and I played Vanilla for a long time. So to say I don't or didn't like it is an assumption on your part...you know what they say about that. I just think WoW is fine the way it is. Rose-tinted glasses and all that.
Blizzard on the other hand has been making a living off the Warhammer IP since....well since forever. so, oh well.
I am glad they are releasing this after the free 30 days of Legion.
They know the expansion sucked and the fans will now be playing vanilla.
What is this "free 30 days" you speak of? Expansions don't come with free time.
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Damn, what a bunch of crybabies. Blizz was/is busy with their launch of Legion and maintaining a rather intense patch schedule for them. While this may have been on the table, there was no way they're were going to be catering to the Vanilla fans for quite some time, and especially no way they were going to be revealing anything about it at Blizzcon while they still have Legion momentum.
Oh well, I'm just glad I am not one of the people railing for a vanilla server. The disappointment right now would be pretty huge.
Comments
As a Pole myself I wouldn't trust in every word they say.
As I've said a bunch but will again reiterate: I think that if Blizzard puts up vanilla servers in whatever timeline suits them, it's fantastic. It's important, however, that it's their decision when that will happen to match their standards. There's no question people will play it and there's nothing wrong with that. But this blackmail, this unethical, if not illegal, use of intellectual property that doesn't belong to so-called "pirate" servers is not the right way to go about it.
The 21st century method of bullying people and corporations into things is a huge step backwards in humankind's evolution.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Either Bliz just needs to contract the rights to Nostalrius and make a constant trickle off it. Or they need to stop beating around the bush saying "maybe" when it will never happen.
If they actually stick to a constant stream of content in this Xpac they shouldn't need to worry about it anyway. The announcements at Blizzcon looked quite decent for Legion, if they can stick the landing.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Now Im not saying what the guys at Nost did was right, but I think they were still justified. All Blizz has ever given them is alot of lip service, and nothing to back it up. If Blizz had their way they would have these guys on the hook for years to come with nothing to show for it.
SOE (now Daybreak) has had time locked and progression servers for years in multiple of their games. They also have a very friendly relationship with the P1999 guys running private servers, which are basically "official unofficial" servers now. If Blizzard ever intended to have vanilla servers they could have done it anytime they wanted.
And NO, Legion is no excuse. Trying to say they have been busy with an expansion is a load of PR BS, and I hate that Suzie tries to use that as an excuse. They have plenty of money and resources to do both, and getting a team to work on a vanilla server would in no way interfere with another team working on an expansion.
And Im glad you like Legion Bill. Many people do. Others do not. Just because Legion is the "best the game has ever been" for you, doesnt make any other opinion of it worth less. Clearly there is a very large population of WOW players who would prefer a vanilla server, and their voices have no gone unheard.
Now we see a very convenient interview published at IGN saying Blizzard is still "interested" in Vanilla. It doesnt matter that this comes only after Nost makes the first move. Sure maybe they should have handled it differently, but the blame is on Blizz also. To say there will be no talk of it at Blizzcon, knowing thats what the players want, is a huge slap in the face. Its not a far speculation to assume Blizzard had no intentions of making a vanilla server, and planned to "table" the talks for as long as possible.
I really hope the staff here at MMORPG, take just one minute to really think about the events and what Blizzard has said and what we have seen them do so far (which isnt much) to move in the right direction. Maybe Blizzard helps pay the bills around here, but you really cant be that blind. Sometimes the little guy does what he thinks is right, even if everyone else sees it as wrong. Only time will tell if it really is or not.
Consequently the folks behind it will have had no choice but to move on, get jobs, move house etc.
Its unrealistic to expect them to sit around waiting for a(nother) call from Blizzard that may or may not come to anything.
And - because their shared passion is vanilla WoW - they have thrown the baton (the net code) into the air for anyone out there who wants to pick it up.
The end.
Releasing classic servers also sets a precedence. People might start asking for BC servers, WotLK servers, Cata servers, etc. Do we then have a separate server for any former expansion at some point? Is Blizzard willing to fragment the community in such a way? Again, how many people are also willing to put up money for this? How much dev time does a project like this take away from the current iteration of WoW?
After the actions of the Nost team, there is zero chance at Blizzard contracting them out. There was basically zero chance originally, but certainly not now, and probably never for another other independent team.
I'd be willing to wager that Blizzard is going to keep along with the "we'd like to do this, but we need to focus on current version" song and dance for as long as the discussion is active. At some point, the fervor will die down and Blizzard can effectively forget the discussion ever took place. If official vanilla servers ever happen it most likely won't happen for years.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Agreed SB. They released the code but aren't hosting any servers? That is kind of useless to the community that thinks Vanilla WoW was all that. I am looking forward to players who never experienced Vanilla WoW playing it and see the runs that had to be made, the scarcity of cash, level 40 slow mounts, 40 man raids.
It will be a sight!
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I am a bit disappointed that the mmorpg.com staff is taking a non-consumer view of the situation.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You're not very informed with the matter, research more before jumping into dull conclusions. Private server, hur dur, therefore sue them. Blizzard cares more about money, just like any other company, they can make way more money off legacy realms rather than just suing nostalrius and then getting a bad reputation and bad taste of legacy community. I've played in every single legacy server out there, the community is really close to each other and are very retaliative towards matters like these.
asdasdasd
Precisely. Everyone's up in arms about the Nost team, not realizing that they're literally parroting Blizzard's very oddly specific attack on one of dozens of private servers available.
The sad fact is that knock offs and mimics are the cost of doing business at this scale. See pretty much any popular brand of anything. If this was truly affecting Blizzard's bottom line, I would understand. There's a reason brands like Coach make their own knockoffs instead of releasing statements about how many knockoff retailers they've put out of business this week. It's making no noticeable dent in Blizzard's bottom line, which is all the stockholders care about.
Yea, I understand they're using an IP they don't own. But until each of you can prove you've never pirated a thing in your life, I find a lot of hypocrisy to the empassioned response we've seen towards the Nost team. They wanted a product that isn't offered anymore. Those of us pirating movies and music want a product that's offered, completely identically, in an official capacity. Yet we still, wholesale and without hesitation, share intellectual property against the wishes of their creators all the time. But because Blizzard is making a public fuss about this one, the lynch mobs have formed outside Nost's doors, ignoring the dozens of neighbors on the same street doing the same things.
If Blizzard were to create legacy servers they would actually have to spend time, money and resources to support it. Remember, Blizzard isn't some group of guys out there who may or may not provide a great, polished experience. They are going to want to make sure that anything released it "done right".
Especially because their name is on the line. They will not only have to support it with "IT" but they will also have to have customer service to support it. I realize gamers think that running servers costs the change that one finds in one's couch but it really isn't.
Additionally, there is no guarantee that they will get a good amount of people playing it. Oh sure, some say they will (and I have no doubt that there is an audience for it) but I wonder how many players will really stick around and pay a sub when in the end all they wanted was to play "free" legacy servers. It's very easy for someone to vote in a poll saying "sure I'll pay" but the proof is in the pudding.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They know the expansion sucked and the fans will now be playing vanilla.
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Oh well, I'm just glad I am not one of the people railing for a vanilla server. The disappointment right now would be pretty huge.