Does VR mess with your brain?

Phaserlight · November 2016

Epic title, pop article, but I've seen some wondering the same so I thought I would share:

https://vrtodaymagazine.com/vr-mess-brain/

Some of the reports are slightly lol inducing, until you stop to think about it.

The first time I tried VR I felt like it was as about of an important step as when I first tried using computers. I never experienced nausea, although my inner ears went through a strange buzzing sensation. That tapered off with subsequent uses (I grew acclimated).

Longest time I've spent in VR at one stretch is about three hours. I normally go to bed afterwards so maybe I'm just sleeping through some of the stranger post-effects others have described. I can't help but wonder how much of the odd reports are psychosomatic.

This isn't to say it doesn't have a very real affect on the brain, but then so does watching TV or a movie.

skeaser · November 2016

Except, unlike TV/movies, you're lying to your brain about what it perceives to be happening to you. If you wear glasses to invert your vision long enough, your brain will correct it's interpretation of the signals from your eyes. I can't imagine what VR could end up doing.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/nov/12/improbable-research-seeing-upside-down

SpottyGekko · November 2016

I suspect the human brain simply hasn't evolved enough to deal with VR experiences. It will probably take thousands of years before the average human can use a headset in safety and comfort...

SEANMCAD · November 2016

article came out that VR didnt do much if any at all research into safety and effects.

nor has anyone here. I think 100% of the people here who say what VR will do in this regard is full of shit.

Vrika · November 2016

SEANMCAD said:

article came out that VR didnt do much if any at all research into safety and effects.

nor has anyone here. I think 100% of the people here who say what VR will do in this regard is full of shit.

That would also mean that 100% of people who say VR won't do something are full of shit.

But in this case, I think we should talk about it and speculate about it even without knowing. It's potentially too large an issue that we should be quiet just because no-one really knows.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

Vrika said:

SEANMCAD said:

article came out that VR didnt do much if any at all research into safety and effects.

nor has anyone here. I think 100% of the people here who say what VR will do in this regard is full of shit.

That would also mean that 100% of people who say VR won't do something are full of shit.

But in this case, I think we should talk about it and speculate about it even without knowing. It's potentially too large an issue that we should be quiet just because no-one really knows.

yeah that is accurate.

who is saying it will not do something?

there is a difference between saying 'you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about' and 'I just made up something radnomly and anyone who disagrees with it is speaking out of term'

just sayin

I, for example, have not a fucking clue what it does to the brain and I even have one.

bassman5420 · November 2016

L O L.... If its going to take 1000's of years for your family line to evolve or adapt to ANYTHING then I am very sad for your horrible genetics.

Phaserlight · November 2016

This passage in particular simultaneously made me raise my eyebrows and almost chuckle:

"In the PSVR Sony Playstation Facebook group, one user asked if anyone had experienced brief, jarring moments throughout their regular day of strange sensory flashes that felt as though they were having mild VR disorientation. Responses began pouring in, with users recounting strange ocular and mental occurrences. Several users described the sudden feeling, hours or days later, that nothing was real; as if they were still in VR, and could take off their helmets at any time"

It's almost cliche, like a bad scifi movie: 'oh my God I'm *still in the Rift*! Reality is just another *layer*! I just *forgot* this was all a simulation it's been so long.'

Needless to say, if you can't distinguish VR from actual reality, you probably have some type of preexisting mental condition. Still though, what if on a subconscious level this technology is having some persistent effect on that part of the brain that separates reality from hallucination? There was also the report of one user seeing "black spots" for five hours after use.

It's almost like a Lovecraft novel.

The article ends with a link to an actual research paper that was done on 'virtual worlds' and dissociative disorders. Although, upon reading the cover page of the paper it looks as though they were focusing on "Second Life" and not VR.

Also note that the military has been using VR for decades. One designer of military VR systems apparently thinks they should be illegal:

https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/204202/virtual-reality-rift-vive-out-now-darleysam-finally-receives-reality-escape-helmet/p72

My response on Penny Arcade's forums:

"It's an interesting read, but I couldn't help reading between the lines somewhat; he has worked on $80,000 headsets for the military for 20 some odd years, and now is just seeing '$500' headsets hitting the market. The article is full of anecdotal evidence, including the most 'damning' portions. One might infer he has something to lose"

The article I linked to in the OP is sensationalist and anecdotal, too. It's all anecdotal at this point. Still, having been in the "VR club" since late August, it's interesting to watch things develop.

It concludes by saying in so many words not to worry. 'Hey, it can give you symptoms of a dissociative disorder, but it doesn't last'.

It's like all the 80's and 90's cyberpunk novels and movies are coming true, to a degree.

BarbieBoy · November 2016

Sorry guys but I'm not interested with VR coz I might end up hurting myself. Like if I play alone in my house, I might end up tripping myself or at the edge of the stairs so no VRs for me. Besides I'm happy smashing the keys on my keyboard. the harder you press the bigger the damage LOL.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

BarbieBoy said:

Sorry guys but I'm not interested with VR coz I might end up hurting myself. Like if I play alone in my house, I might end up tripping myself or at the edge of the stairs so no VRs for me. Besides I'm happy smashing the keys on my keyboard. the harder you press the bigger the damage LOL.

those concerns are more of a problem for you then VR could ever be.

just saying you need to stretch a bit in life and not be so afraid (imo)

Loke666 · November 2016

SpottyGekko said:

I suspect the human brain simply hasn't evolved enough to deal with VR experiences. It will probably take thousands of years before the average human can use a headset in safety and comfort...

Lol, Isn't it just more likely that VR needs to become better? It is far easier then evolving your brain after all, VR is still a relatively new technology and it have already evolved a lot since Nintendos crappy VR console.

Give it a few more years and it will certainly feel far more natural.

waynejr2 · November 2016

Our brains change based on every experience.

Sovrath · November 2016

BarbieBoy said:

Sorry guys but I'm not interested with VR coz I might end up hurting myself. Like if I play alone in my house, I might end up tripping myself or at the edge of the stairs so no VRs for me. Besides I'm happy smashing the keys on my keyboard. the harder you press the bigger the damage LOL.

The way I'll keep from tripping down stairs (I think) is by putting a few stanchion posts around to define the space.

Short of having a defined room that is what I came up with.

tawess · November 2016

I have no doubt we are going to see VR trigger latent perception disorders.

But long term damage... Less so i´d say.

rojoArcueid · November 2016

If people can get seizures by looking at a TV/monitor while certain things happening at a given time, VR will most likely make those side effects show up easier than a TV. Regardless of what it does, that's not the reason why i am skipping VR. I'm not interested in indie-quality games on an expensive new hardware. And the main reason is that i am thankful i've never needed prescription glasses to see/read, and VR will not be the cause of it for me.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

rojoArcueid said:

If people can get seizures by looking at a TV/monitor while certain things happening at a given time, VR will most likely make those side effects show up easier than a TV. Regardless of what it does, that's not the reason why i am skipping VR. I'm not interested in indie-quality games on an expensive new hardware. And the main reason is that i am thankful i've never needed prescription glasses to see/read, and VR will not be the cause of it for me.

umm Sony has been cranking out AAA titles as of late.
I personally hate those kinds of games but maybe that is what you are looking for.

The kinds of games I am looking for is going to come likely much later, building games

rojoArcueid · November 2016

SEANMCAD said:

rojoArcueid said:

If people can get seizures by looking at a TV/monitor while certain things happening at a given time, VR will most likely make those side effects show up easier than a TV. Regardless of what it does, that's not the reason why i am skipping VR. I'm not interested in indie-quality games on an expensive new hardware. And the main reason is that i am thankful i've never needed prescription glasses to see/read, and VR will not be the cause of it for me.

umm Sony has been cranking out AAA titles as of late.
I personally hate those kinds of games but maybe that is what you are looking for.

The kinds of games I am looking for is going to come likely much later, building games

I think VR indeed makes more sense for both building games and other simulators, instead of action/adventure or shooters.

maskedweasel · November 2016

Brain changes could definitely become an issue as more information comes in. I mean thats on top of the other issues people have been reporting, I completely understand the black spots problem, I've never experienced it, but when you have light flashing directly into your eyes, its basically like staring at a lightbulb, you can get some black spots depending on what you're watching.

Think polarbears in a snowstorm on netflix.

I think the long term brain effects with current gen hardware isn't really as big of an issue. I think the physical effects will hit you long before the brain changing dissociative disorders. I've worn sets for a long time before, it can be a strain on your neck - those sets get heavy, and they all dig into your nose a bit, a lot of people start sniffling almost immediately, and then of course, the disorientation - etc.

Nanfoodle · November 2016

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

maskedweasel · November 2016

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

I think we have direct proof of the negative effects of long term screen use based on this post.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

I think we have direct proof of the negative effects of long term screen use based on this post.

so there you are, based on what you said VR will take around 24 years of every day use before it becomes a problem. Thanks for contributing

maskedweasel · November 2016

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

I think we have direct proof of the negative effects of long term screen use based on this post.

so there you are, based on what you said VR will take around 24 years of every day use before it becomes a problem. Thanks for contributing

it's called a joke.

SEANMCAD · November 2016

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

I think we have direct proof of the negative effects of long term screen use based on this post.

so there you are, based on what you said VR will take around 24 years of every day use before it becomes a problem. Thanks for contributing

it's called a joke.

well its good that you can prove my point and be humors about it as well. that takes skill

Nanfoodle · November 2016

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

Is there a point? Eye strain is a real thing. It depends on your age, existing eye conditions/problems. Long term eye strain can cause...

Blurred vision
Double vision
Dry, red eyes
Eye irritation
Headaches
Neck or back pain

The above problems long term can cause other problems. But if you read my post you replied to. Most things we do cause damage and problems. My point is, how much of a problem is it. Is it smoking bad, or eye strain bad?

SEANMCAD · November 2016

Nanfoodle said:

SEANMCAD said:

Nanfoodle said:

Looking at any screen long term effects cause damage. Simple eye strain can cause problems when its long term. Thinking that VR would not cause some effect is shortsighted. Question is, will it be something noteworthy? How large a segment of the population will have problems? We do things to ourselves every day that causes damage to one agree or another.

dude! I have estimated I have aprox. 81,000 hours of being behind a computer screen. holy fuck!

Is there a point? Eye strain is a real thing. ....

I never said it wasnt.

what specifically are you suggesting the risk differentiator between a PC monitor and a VR headset is. because that is the only thing worth talking about in the context of VR specifically and its risks.

Not pointing out (while looking at a monitor) something we all do daily for decades.

Think about this. You actually took the time to look up that information and write a response while doing it behind a computer monitor and you never even understood the point. I think (but not sure) that is defined as cognitive dissonance

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