Crowfall - Want to Invest in a Throne War? You Can Now. - MMORPG.com

SBFord · November 2016

Crowfall - Want to Invest in a Throne War? You Can Now. - MMORPG.com

Having an interview with Todd Coleman and Gordon Walton (co-founders of Artcraft Entertainment) about the recent IndieGoGo/Microventures funding news is a bit hard. You see, by the basic rules and laws put forth by the government, there’s not a whole lot they can discuss in detail about the investment setup. But they can talk about why IndieGoGo, and how things are going with Crowfall, so that’s just what we did…

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Vrika · November 2016

It looks like a bad investment to me.

Expect that you get also a pledge package as free extra. If someone hasn't bought his copy of Crowfall yet, now is good time to invest $100 on the game and you'll get stocks on the company plus a copy of the game.

chocolate-mouse · November 2016

As someone who initially backed them with the Kickstarter I have to say no. Not just no but heck no! My first question was going to be "will they have any actual responsibility to actually deliver a product unlike other crowdfunding sources?" Just had to read a bit further to find that one out.

"But the fun part with the regulations is we can’t tell you how we plan to make money, we can just promise that we’ll try and hope you believe in our product enough to invest."

Oh ya, I absolutely love giving free money to folks with no information and they have zero responsibility to me, unlike actual real investors. That's why game companies have stopped getting funding from real investors. They can just milk us before they even give us an actual game. Just...wow.

coolster50 · November 2016

chocolate-mouse said:

As someone who initially backed them with the Kickstarter I have to say no. Not just no but heck no! My first question was going to be "will they have any actual responsibility to actually deliver a product unlike other crowdfunding sources?" Just had to read a bit further to find that one out.

"But the fun part with the regulations is we can’t tell you how we plan to make money, we can just promise that we’ll try and hope you believe in our product enough to invest."

Oh ya, I absolutely love giving free money to folks with no information and they have zero responsibility to me, unlike actual real investors. That's why game companies have stopped getting funding from real investors. They can just milk us before they even give us an actual game. Just...wow.

Fight the regulation, not the ones following it.

goobsnews · November 2016

Hahaha, yeah, they can't tell us what the money is for and aren't telling us how they plan to make money. Is this medieval star citizen?

Jyiiga · November 2016

I really hate the "age of crowd funding". At least when it comes to MMO titles. Little tidbits of news three times a week for years on end. Ugh.

Aeander · November 2016

goobsnews said:

Hahaha, yeah, they can't tell us what the money is for and aren't telling us how they plan to make money. Is this medieval star citizen?

No, no, no. That would be Chronicles of Elyria.

Incomparable · November 2016

did it say what the total shares, to know what 1 share is in equity.

do i go by the total funding they got 9.9 million and the worth of 1 share, which is $1.1.

or the expected worth of equity of 20 million?

so total shares are 18,181,818?
$100 = 110 shares
110 shares / 18,181,818 = .0006%

FlyByKnight · November 2016

Am I mistaken in feeling like this is a "We want angel investors (many), without having to be accountable?"

While better than Kickstarter... it's still a not a good idea for any reasonable gamer.

JamesGoblin · November 2016

goobsnews said:

Hahaha, yeah, they can't tell us what the money is for and aren't telling us how they plan to make money. Is this medieval star citizen?

How to make money - they are explaining it in detail (see link below, and it was well known earlier anyway): box price, optional sub + microtrans/cash shop.

PS Medieval Star Citizen title is already awarded to Shroud of the Avatar.

Incomparable said:

did it say what the total shares, to know what 1 share is in equity.

do i go by the total funding they got 9.9 million and the worth of 1 share, which is $1.1.

or the expected worth of equity of 20 million?

so total shares are 18,181,818?
$100 = 110 shares
110 shares / 18,181,818 = .0006%

You, and anyone wondering about details, can find some answers on their MicroVentures page. They are also answering questions in comments below - https://app.microventures.com/crowdfunding/artcraft-entertainment

FlyByKnight said:

Am I mistaken in feeling like this is a "We want angel investors (many), without having to be accountable?"

While better than Kickstarter... it's still a not a good idea for any reasonable gamer.

I see it as basically prolonged Kickstarter (tho I'm certainly not an expert) and they already, after only couple days (out of 60+) raised $50k.

donger56 · November 2016

People need to be realistic about this. It isn't really that much different from a kickstarter, but at least you are told up front that you are risking any money you put up, and that there is a chance for a return. People that are expecting some kind of detailed financial report or some project approval for 100$ are nuts. This is not the sort of thing you dump your retirement fund into or something. The real pay off is going to be having a decent game to play more than any real financial gain anyway. I just like that it is clearly stated what you are getting into unlike some of these kickstarters who try to pretend that they are a charity or something and that people who funded them are not customers and have no cause to ask for refunds. I've already done chargebacks on a couple of shit companies and felt completely justified in doing so because I was a customer, not an investor.

Thane · November 2016

yep, there are always 2 ways, microtransactions, or fundings.
CU is going the better way imo.
and to claim their model does not work is simply put a lie. they are working with it atm, they ARE producing their game.

microtransactions are simply.... yea, whatever.

Gobstopper3D · November 2016

Give us more money! Why? We can't ell you, but trust us! NO thank you.

lahnmir · November 2016

I can't find info about having already pledged and wanting to invest as well. Does it ad up and give me a higher tier or do I just get the same package again when I drop another 100 bucks? There is no incentive to invest for those who have already pledged besides getting shares if that is the case which would be a waste.

If my invested money ads up towards a higher tier I might actually consider, if it gives me the same stuff I got last time, hell no.

I am surprised however by people treating this game and its funding as if it is a scheme. There is an actual game here, fun as well.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Copperfield · November 2016

yes Sir.. putting money into a fail concept

Hype!!

JamesGoblin · November 2016

lahnmir said:

I can't find info about having already pledged and wanting to invest as well. Does it ad up and give me a higher tier or do I just get the same package again when I drop another 100 bucks? There is no incentive to invest for those who have already pledged besides getting shares if that is the case which would be a waste.

If my invested money ads up towards a higher tier I might actually consider, if it gives me the same stuff I got last time, hell no.

I am surprised however by people treating this game and its funding as if it is a scheme. There is an actual game here, fun as well.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

You have it covered (if I understood Todd's answer right?) in the comments of link I gave in my previous post:

"For those of us who are existing Crowfall backers, especially those with Kickstarter or similar early pledge packages, would it be possible for us to use the value of any potential investment that would result in a game package, to upgrade our existing packages ? For instance, if a user has a Kickstarter Sapphire and invests $1000, which comes with a 2017 Sapphire package as a perk, they could instead be granted an upgrade to Kickstarter Ruby?

While I am aware there would need to be time and energy put into upgrading older tiers, I believe it would be a nice gesture for ArtCraft if it all possible and mutually beneficial to the investment effort. This will give an additional incentive for current backers to invest, granting them an upgrade for their existing era pledge tiers that would otherwise be unavailable. Thank you."

...and here's the answer: "Yes, we have always been open to allowing players to exchange packages and virtual goods for other the digital items available in our store (of equivalent value, of course). After you get your package, contact customer support at : support@crowfall.com."

lahnmir · November 2016

JamesGoblin said:

lahnmir said:

I can't find info about having already pledged and wanting to invest as well. Does it ad up and give me a higher tier or do I just get the same package again when I drop another 100 bucks? There is no incentive to invest for those who have already pledged besides getting shares if that is the case which would be a waste.

If my invested money ads up towards a higher tier I might actually consider, if it gives me the same stuff I got last time, hell no.

I am surprised however by people treating this game and its funding as if it is a scheme. There is an actual game here, fun as well.

/Cheers,

Lahnmir

You have it covered (if I understood Todd's answer right?) in the comments of link I gave in my previous post:

"For those of us who are existing Crowfall backers, especially those with
Kickstarter or similar early pledge packages, would it be possible for
us to use the value of any potential investment that would result in a
game package, to upgrade our existing packages ? For instance, if a
user has a Kickstarter Sapphire and invests $1000, which comes with a
2017 Sapphire package as a perk, they could instead be granted an
upgrade to Kickstarter Ruby?

While I am aware there would need to be time and energy put into
upgrading older tiers, I believe it would be a nice gesture for ArtCraft
if it all possible and mutually beneficial to the investment effort.
This will give an additional incentive for current backers to invest,
granting them an upgrade for their existing era pledge tiers that would
otherwise be unavailable. Thank you."

...and here's the answer: "Yes, we have always been open to allowing players to exchange packages
and virtual goods for other the digital items available in our store (of
equivalent value, of course). After you get your package, contact
customer support at : support@crowfall.com."

Frigging sweet. Now I've got 60 days to decide if I am going to be a raving fanboy or a reasonable adult. Thanks for the info, seems I completely missed that part.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

lahnmir · November 2016

Copperfield said:

yes Sir.. putting money into a fail concept

Hype!!

No Wildstar 2.0 reference this time? You are getting lazy mr. Copperfield. I do wonder about the failed concept though, what concept might that be?

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

illutian · November 2016

Anyone who thinks this is their chance to 'make it big' is a damn fool. Assuming you get dividends, it'll be the amount left over after paying expenses, then the profit will be divided among the shareholders. You literally could end up earning a penny for your $1000 (seems this is the average minimum to invest).

Dividends are almost always paid out quarterly; total of 4 times a year. So, ya, do the math. See how long it'll take to earn back the money invested.

But, Illutian, the payout will increase if the game does well.

No shit. But be realistic. The chances of Crowfall being the next WoW or next LoL is a slim chance in Hell after it's frozen over, thawed, and turned into a tropical paradise called Eden II.

You'd have better returns taking the amount you want to invest and investing it in a NASDAQ-traded stock that also pays out dividends.

JamesGoblin · November 2016

illutian said:

Anyone who thinks this is their chance to 'make it big' is a damn fool. Assuming you get dividends, it'll be the amount left over after paying expenses, then the profit will be divided among the shareholders. You literally could end up earning a penny for your $1000 (seems this is the average minimum to invest).

Dividends are almost always paid out quarterly; total of 4 times a year. So, ya, do the math. See how long it'll take to earn back the money invested.

But, Illutian, the payout will increase if the game does well.

No shit. But be realistic. The chances of Crowfall being the next WoW or next LoL is a slim chance in Hell after it's frozen over, thawed, and turned into a tropical paradise called Eden II.

You'd have better returns taking the amount you want to invest and investing it in a NASDAQ-traded stock that also pays out dividends.

@illutian I absolutely agree (while being a more-less rabid Crowfall fan

) - basically, devs found a way to make another wave of crowdfunding and get some media attention. "Investing" here is about supporting the game and NOT making money, what one gets in return is similar to standard pledge packages.

dontadow · November 2016

This is the first I've heard in a bit of the other modes that weren't "pvp" related that were promised. I backed two games so I'm in for a penny anyway. I like the concept and the enthusiasm. I'm worried about the scope creep and the altered premarketing rhetoric.

dontadow · November 2016

lahnmir said:

Copperfield said:

yes Sir.. putting money into a fail concept

Hype!!

No Wildstar 2.0 reference this time? You are getting lazy mr. Copperfield. I do wonder about the failed concept though, what concept might that be?

/Cheers,

Lahnmir

As a backer and cuatiously optomostic supporter, I do feel that the initial concept of a a world with multiple campaigns on different rulesets has been scaled down in conversations post kickstarter launch. Intially, what got me interested, was the idea of campaigns that were both pvp and pve with different lengths, rules and themes. Post marketing, a lot of the focus has shifted to pvp only with world's being fairly similar. Of course, this article was the first I'd heard in a while of the differnt world's still on the table but happening after teh game launch. Considering initially it was mentioned that all of this would be launched at once I'd say that it is certainly an altered concept.

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