Please read my original post buried in the above rant. Like @Rhoklaw I feel the problem is a major segment of the population is being driven off by the dXXkish behavior of a few. This is why others come to sites begging for new players to try their sandbox MMO that is soooo successful. Or asking why do sandbox games feel so cheap and underpopulated.
And that's because most "sandbox" MMO's use the same thing to cover up the lack of content in game.....
again, same thing gets stated over and over again and best I can tell from looking at actual sandbox games is that it appears to be 100% incorrect.
what games are lacking content that people are refering to ? I cant find them
I'll name one. I'm a fan of Star Wars Galaxies (SWG). But the real intent of the original game was "Grind for Jedi." I talked to people in the cantina. I stumbled upon people walking about in the wilderness and we talked for a while. I harvested and crafted. I rerolled many new professions to master. I was there for a couple of raids on Theed, and Anchorhead. I made elder Jedi, and I saw the new PvP.
But I felt there was nothing to do, in one of my all time favorite games.
BTW i have played all games that possibly be called MMO SB.
Another game that you probably don't recognize as SB is Hero's Song. Really no one has to give you a title, they all seem to be doing poorly in general. That is the reason for the discussion. Don't get hostile demanding for a title to address. The more helpful thing to do is describe what we should be doing, that you found fun to do in your experience in SB games. Maybe the problem is a difference in playstyle. Arguing about what is a SB, everyone else feels is pointless. You did feel GTA was a SB, fine. I don't think it is skin off anyone's nose here if you do. Thank you for sharing why you feel the way you do.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Please read my original post buried in the above rant. Like @Rhoklaw I feel the problem is a major segment of the population is being driven off by the dXXkish behavior of a few. This is why others come to sites begging for new players to try their sandbox MMO that is soooo successful. Or asking why do sandbox games feel so cheap and underpopulated.
And that's because most "sandbox" MMO's use the same thing to cover up the lack of content in game.....
again, same thing gets stated over and over again and best I can tell from looking at actual sandbox games is that it appears to be 100% incorrect.
what games are lacking content that people are refering to ? I cant find them
I'll name one. I'm a fan of Star Wars Galaxies (SWG). But the real intent of the original game was "Grind for Jedi." ....
ok we need to step back a second and get some perspective here.
are you suggesting that a game like WoW is less of a grind and as a result that is proof of more content then SWG?
because that smells like a large pile of crap.
lets not make these themepark games to be some kind of in depth game with lots of content, that is hysterical they are super grindy and very limited and SWG is a HORRIBLE example of...and I quote: 'large open spaces with nothing to do'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Yes. Wow has more varied activities. There are many options to do when you are bored of one if them. Mob grind quest harvest craft house battlegrounds dungeons. ..
Most sandbox only have a few of those.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Yes. Wow has more varied activities. There are many options to do when you are bored if one if them. Mob grind quest harvest craft house battlegrounds dungeons. ..
Most sandbox only have a few of those.
I would disagree on multiple points.
1. I would suggest that two examples is not 'most' 2. I am willing to bet you havent played enough sandbox games to pull a baseline 'most' statement. 3. my personal experience with sandbox MMO which includes Wurm, Xyson and Eve all have more content then EQ2 with the exception of Xyson. 4. very likely what you consider 'not content' I consider content. 5. what you consider content I personally find to be content sure but annoying content.
In Wurm I can stand in a field, look in all directions and see not a single NPC, real life person, or building (the 'space' part of the statement) and yet have a ton of content and it does. imagine that
In total you have one group that is saying 'sandbox contains little to no content' which REALLY means 'sandbox contains little to no content I personally care about'
which is RADICALLY different
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
To your first part about WoW, all that content they've created is just wasted space in the lightening speed jump to max level/end game, I'd like to see WoW scale all their content like Legion is scaled, then we have a massive world to play in again, and by massive I mean no other MMO comes even close content wise.
I've played enough to develop information and an idea of them. Only 2 extensively.
no I would disagree with that very strongly. 2 is not enough to form a baseline for an entire style of gaming. Although I have only played 3 sandbox MMOs. I have played many more sandbox single player games and YES the experience evaluation is the same please dont make me have to explain how the rulesets between the two are often the same...
more importantly however.
'little to no content' and 'grinding' is not the same thing.
That is content.. you just dont like the content and THAT is where this whole thing fails miserably.
Sandbox games DO have content, the whole 'they dont have much content' is a flat out LIE. they just have content you dont like
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
and based on your answer of those two my assessment is that they did contain content, just not content you enjoy and as a result it felt like a grind to you.
I think that assessment is perfectly reasonable and fair. I think 'has little to no content' is not.
I think that there is a stark difference between 'content I dont like' and 'little to no content'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No. I told you all the content they had. I did not mention whether i enjoyed it or not. My enjoyment is not the discussion. Whether or not the content is there is the discussion.
I also did not mention whether any of it was a grind. Those are both unsupported assumptions.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No. I told you all the content they had. I did not mention whether i enjoyed it or not. My enjoyment is not the discussion. Whether or not the content is there is the discussion.
I also did not mention whether any of it was a grind. Those are both unsupported assumptions.
that would be extreemly incorrect. You did. you did by saying ' a grind' that is a statement of judgement of your enjoyment. and you didnt describe the content at all.
I am sticking with what I said. it has content you just didnt like it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
No. The only time i mentioned the word grind was to say mob grind when talking about wow. I did not mention grind when talking about any other game ir genre.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No. The only time i mentioned the word grind was to say mob grind when talking about wow. I did not mention grind when talking about any other game ir genre.
no you mention Ryza (or whatever its called) and digging as a grind did you not? you also mentioned something in SWG as a 'grind fest' did you even used a specfic term
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Very few consider it that. It has an in depth crafting system and an interesting mob system. The game offers digging in the dirt endless grinding on stationary mobs (trees that i can't remember the name of) fighting if a dozen or so types of mobs and crafting. If your lucky you might get invited through your guild to attack an outpost.
That's it. There is nothing else in it.
using the word grind
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Very few consider it that. It has an in depth crafting system and an interesting mob system. The game offers digging in the dirt endless grinding on stationary mobs (trees that i can't remember the name of) fighting if a dozen or so types of mobs and crafting. If your lucky you might get invited through your guild to attack an outpost.
That's it. There is nothing else in it.
using the word grind
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Very few consider it that. It has an in depth crafting system and an interesting mob system. The game offers digging in the dirt endless grinding on stationary mobs (trees that i can't remember the name of) fighting if a dozen or so types of mobs and crafting. If your lucky you might get invited through your guild to attack an outpost.
That's it. There is nothing else in it.
using the word grind
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Your right. I missed that. i stated gRinding stationary mobs (trees).
That was the only other place i mentioned grind. However i still mentioned that that was content. So one again my enjoyment is not the issue. Whether there is content is the issue.
You can't use that as justification for saying there is content just not content that i like when i already stated that as one of the content points they have.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Now if i ignored content i didn't like them you would game an argument. However i stated that was content therefore i am not ignoring or mentioning content based on my enjoyment
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Your right. I missed that. i stated gRinding stationary mobs (trees).
That was the only other place i mentioned grind. However i still mentioned that that was content. So one again my enjoyment is not the issue. Whether there is content is the issue.
You can't use that as justification for saying there is content just not content that i like when i already stated that as one of the content points they have.
consciously or not the use of the word 'grind' illustrates a bias that puts into question ones full evaluation of the features involved in that specific gaming experience.
I have heard people describe gaming experiences in games as 'a grind' without fullying acknologing and outright ignoring the 'content' involved because to them it did not feel relevant even though to others it did.
So my position is unchanged. The statment of 'sandboxs have little content' is horseshit
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
But I felt there was nothing to do, in one of my all time favorite games.
BTW i have played all games that possibly be called MMO SB.
Another game that you probably don't recognize as SB is Hero's Song. Really no one has to give you a title, they all seem to be doing poorly in general. That is the reason for the discussion. Don't get hostile demanding for a title to address. The more helpful thing to do is describe what we should be doing, that you found fun to do in your experience in SB games. Maybe the problem is a difference in playstyle. Arguing about what is a SB, everyone else feels is pointless. You did feel GTA was a SB, fine. I don't think it is skin off anyone's nose here if you do. Thank you for sharing why you feel the way you do.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
are you suggesting that a game like WoW is less of a grind and as a result that is proof of more content then SWG?
because that smells like a large pile of crap.
lets not make these themepark games to be some kind of in depth game with lots of content, that is hysterical they are super grindy and very limited and SWG is a HORRIBLE example of...and I quote: 'large open spaces with nothing to do'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Most sandbox only have a few of those.
1. I would suggest that two examples is not 'most'
2. I am willing to bet you havent played enough sandbox games to pull a baseline 'most' statement.
3. my personal experience with sandbox MMO which includes Wurm, Xyson and Eve all have more content then EQ2 with the exception of Xyson.
4. very likely what you consider 'not content' I consider content.
5. what you consider content I personally find to be content sure but annoying content.
In Wurm I can stand in a field, look in all directions and see not a single NPC, real life person, or building (the 'space' part of the statement) and yet have a ton of content and it does. imagine that
In total you have one group that is saying 'sandbox contains little to no content' which REALLY means 'sandbox contains little to no content I personally care about'
which is RADICALLY different
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Wurm essentially had a ton of crafting. each crafting item is not separate content.
That field you say is basically shaping the land and crafting.
more importantly however.
'little to no content' and 'grinding' is not the same thing.
That is content.. you just dont like the content and THAT is where this whole thing fails miserably.
Sandbox games DO have content, the whole 'they dont have much content' is a flat out LIE. they just have content you dont like
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think that assessment is perfectly reasonable and fair. I think 'has little to no content' is not.
I think that there is a stark difference between 'content I dont like' and 'little to no content'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I also did not mention whether any of it was a grind. Those are both unsupported assumptions.
I am sticking with what I said. it has content you just didnt like it.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
you also mentioned something in SWG as a 'grind fest' did you even used a specfic term
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That was the only other place i mentioned grind. However i still mentioned that that was content. So one again my enjoyment is not the issue. Whether there is content is the issue.
You can't use that as justification for saying there is content just not content that i like when i already stated that as one of the content points they have.
I have heard people describe gaming experiences in games as 'a grind' without fullying acknologing and outright ignoring the 'content' involved because to them it did not feel relevant even though to others it did.
So my position is unchanged. The statment of 'sandboxs have little content' is horseshit
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me