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Why are NPCs so static and lifeless in MMORPGs?
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
First, I'll get two MMOs out of the way that did this differently.
Ryzom, the animal AI is rather smart as far as MMOs go and even most singleplayer games
Tabula Rasa, the AI was incredibly intelligent, more than most singleplayer games AI is.
However, most games do it like WoW. Even sandbox games for the most part do it like WoW. Obvious AI pathing, AI that is as stupid as a test drive dummy. The NPCs are static. NPCs don't even eat or have a routine.
Look at Ultima 7, the AI in that game, even though UO7 is decades and decades old...is smarter and more lifelike than any modern AI today. The best modern AI I can think of is Skyrim, and that is only for the NPCs. The monster life and bandits in Skyrim are as stupid as what I find in WoW.
Even GW2, which does amazing immersive cities...the AI just repeats the same words over and over. They go on a little scripted, and very obvious route...over and over and over. Sure like WoW there are a few NPCs that move around, but its obvious they are on a pre-programmed path
And sure UO7 I'm sure was just as scripted. However, in Ultima 7, Ryzom and Tabula Rasa it felt/feels far more real. It isn't nearly as obvious if barely at all.
Instead, most MMOs and many singleplayer games, the AI is as dumb and dead as a doorknob. And if the programmers do try to make them "lifelike", it isn't nearly as advanced as Ultima 7 or Tabula Rasa AI was. Heck even Ultima Online AI is stupid compared to its older version Ultima 7. Which is kinda funny really. No game today compares to how the AI was in Ultima 7, or Tabula Rasa. And no game even does what Ryzom does with its animal AI.
Its like games went back in time or just stagnated.
Ryzom, the animal AI is rather smart as far as MMOs go and even most singleplayer games
Tabula Rasa, the AI was incredibly intelligent, more than most singleplayer games AI is.
However, most games do it like WoW. Even sandbox games for the most part do it like WoW. Obvious AI pathing, AI that is as stupid as a test drive dummy. The NPCs are static. NPCs don't even eat or have a routine.
Look at Ultima 7, the AI in that game, even though UO7 is decades and decades old...is smarter and more lifelike than any modern AI today. The best modern AI I can think of is Skyrim, and that is only for the NPCs. The monster life and bandits in Skyrim are as stupid as what I find in WoW.
Even GW2, which does amazing immersive cities...the AI just repeats the same words over and over. They go on a little scripted, and very obvious route...over and over and over. Sure like WoW there are a few NPCs that move around, but its obvious they are on a pre-programmed path
And sure UO7 I'm sure was just as scripted. However, in Ultima 7, Ryzom and Tabula Rasa it felt/feels far more real. It isn't nearly as obvious if barely at all.
Instead, most MMOs and many singleplayer games, the AI is as dumb and dead as a doorknob. And if the programmers do try to make them "lifelike", it isn't nearly as advanced as Ultima 7 or Tabula Rasa AI was. Heck even Ultima Online AI is stupid compared to its older version Ultima 7. Which is kinda funny really. No game today compares to how the AI was in Ultima 7, or Tabula Rasa. And no game even does what Ryzom does with its animal AI.
Its like games went back in time or just stagnated.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Comments
Traditionally, NPCs have been static within the industry. So the industry isn't going backwards.
As to why they are static. I have a hard time believing you don't really know.
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Why then was Tabula Rasa, Ultima 7, Skyrim (well sorta, the NPCs were better than most) and Ryzom (two of those being MMORPGs) have advanced or/and lifelike AI? Why are other MMOs then held back by the lackluster AI? And most games in general?
Traditionally is just another word for stagnant. Or developers unable to evolve the MMO or/and game genre to something better.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
The best i have ever seen was however decades ago,Wizardry was one game whereby you could use keywords to spark a response from the npc,however it wads usually met with a "i don't know how to answer that question" response.
To make really good AI you need a lot of lines of script and this is going to bog down systems,especially when you get multiple npc's and add to that their movement scripts as well as their thoughts and spells/reactions.
Devs are always on a timeline/budget,they are not going to go that extra mile,not even if they knew it would enhance the game tremendously,not unless the buyers market demanded it.Even then they would weigh in profits versus expenditures and might still not do it,basically saying to the gamer's,take what we give you or you get no game.
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Do people really want the MMORPG genre to be as stagnant and decaying as it is? Where they don't want to revolutionize gameplay aspects of MMOs?
Other genres are far outpacing MMOs in terms of technological and gameplay improvements. Its why other games are seeing far more popularity than MMOs do. Outside of the stupid mobile crap.
Even games like Ark Survival has better AI than most MMOs do.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
There's no real reason why NPCs can't move around, but it can be trickier than you might think to do algorithmically. See the traffic jams in Champions Online, for example. Or see the many escort quests that are completely broken in so many games.
If you want an NPC to be dynamic and also interact with players, that makes it harder. What if the NPC was supposed to be moving, but you want to talk? Does he just walk off and break the conversation unless you follow him? Does he get off schedule and then who knows what happens?
Dynamic text is really hard. You can have chat trees like EverQuest II, or give an NPC several lines of dialogue and have him pick one at random. But those are both fairly shallow sorts of variety, and if you want something more random, you likely get incoherent mad libs.
But imagine if the monster AI, the stuff you actually fight in WoW (or whatever other game) had the AI of Tabula Rasa? Not specifically the NPCs, but the actual monsters/npcs that the player fights. That game came out years ago, and no MMO has tried to copy its AI and it was pretty indepth and advanced as far as MMOs go. That make PVE way more fun and challenging, making groups more reliant, but still possible to solo for those who like that.
Heck, no mmo has even tried copying the animal AI of Ryzom either. That is pretty advanced, and that game came out years ago.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I am not asking for anything groundbreaking, but the amount of static mob camps in MMORPGs still reminds me of DAoC. That's pretty pathetic.
And Tabula Rasa was a whole nother level of good AI. Tabula rasa npcs were pretty lifeless if I recall, but the actual AI of the aliens was pretty damn good. It felt like playing a singleplayer/co-op multiplayer FPS game, with how good the AI was.
Of course, right now, games are not anywhere near the level of human level AI. That is probably far in the future, and maybe even past our time. But there has been at least two MMOs with really good creature/alien/monster or whatever AI.
Its mostly singleplayer games that have better done AI than MMOs, but once in a while an MMO comes out with good AI, but they aren't popular enough to have set the bar for other companies to follow. And tabula rasa of course doesn't exist anymore. Ryzom is pretty niche, never caught on for the majority and almost shut down a few times.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I must be the only one who took NPC to mean all NPCs, not just friendly NPCs.
It's the lack of innovative AI in the NPC mobs I face that is disapointing to me. As I mentioned earlier, the static mob spawns haven't much changed from my days playing DAoC, and that's shameful imo.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But it says something that that our only real go-to comparison to static mobs is roamers. We've seen so little innovation in the area that we have a hard time even fathoming what other improvements COULD be made. Roaming NPCs are AI 102, at best. And I get that doing it for massive amounts of mobs can be time consuming... But I'm currently replaying Mass Effect 2, and there's no noticeable difference in AI between the NPCs I face there and much newer MMORPGs. That's where my disappointment comes in.
MMORPG developers have been doing nothing but trying to figure out a better way to make the player feel like they're the only hero of the game, which is ass backwards for a genre that's cornerstone is literally being one member of a large community of folks playing the same game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If Dragon's Dogma Online ever does come out... You bet your ass I'll be in line to try it! Is Dragon's Dogma a PC title too?? I never checked.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Also, and this is off topic, but what happened to damage types??? I remember DAoC having a vast number of damage types for not only spells but melee and armors that resisted certain types better than others. Where has that gone? Pillars of Eternity did a great job with it imo.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For example, one MMO had NPCs that went home at night. When they opened up shop in the morning, they were restocked and ready for the day. They had limited cash, and only bought what they needed - f. ex. the baker bought your flour and not your swords. Depending on your reputation in the world, they may give you a discount, or may even refuse to deal with you. When tending shop, they often walked about the building, and sometimes you may find them outside enjoying some sun. During high demand of items, the NPCs would restock with larger quantities over time, and when the demand dropped so did the quantities in their inventory. If there was major traffic through the shop, additional NPCs would be called in to alleviate the workload and in NPC shops where there were workbenches, new workbenches would be spawned so everyone wasn't crowded around a single one.
There were pros and cons to every one of those features, and over time it seemed the benefits didn't outweigh the other side.
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Aggro was funny too, I've seen more realistic movement from the Chuck E Cheese animatronic cast members. I was just wating for the annoying happy birthday music.